Coenen 2 Sec Faster than Herlings… In the SAND!

aees
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1 day ago
DeStouwer wrote:
I just can't understand why fans necessarily want to blame the Honda because Herlings gets beaten twice in the sand. Is it out of denial because...

I just can't understand why fans necessarily want to blame the Honda because Herlings gets beaten twice in the sand. Is it out of denial because it's an unusual thing to see for the past 17 years? Herlings himself admits he got beaten fair and square. What's more to argue about?

Herlings himself has said, the Honda is not as good in the sand as it is on hard packed. They have done a lot of job to get to this point in the sand.

You think after 15y on the big bike steel chassi and KTM specifically, after like 5 races and 3 months, that's as good as he will be in the sand on the Honda?

He also said he didn't think even Jett could hang with Lucas, saying Jett is faster than him currently, in the sand. Sorry, but Herlings would beat Jett 9 out of 10 times in rough sand if you put him back on the KTM. I don't think anyone would argue that.

What's he supposed to say? "if I was on my KTM it would have been more of a battle"? Where he is now with that team and bike, yes he was beaten fare and square.

 

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DeStouwer
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1 day ago Edited Date/Time 1 day ago
DeStouwer wrote:
I just can't understand why fans necessarily want to blame the Honda because Herlings gets beaten twice in the sand. Is it out of denial because...

I just can't understand why fans necessarily want to blame the Honda because Herlings gets beaten twice in the sand. Is it out of denial because it's an unusual thing to see for the past 17 years? Herlings himself admits he got beaten fair and square. What's more to argue about?

aees wrote:
Herlings himself has said, the Honda is not as good in the sand as it is on hard packed. They have done a lot of job...

Herlings himself has said, the Honda is not as good in the sand as it is on hard packed. They have done a lot of job to get to this point in the sand.

You think after 15y on the big bike steel chassi and KTM specifically, after like 5 races and 3 months, that's as good as he will be in the sand on the Honda?

He also said he didn't think even Jett could hang with Lucas, saying Jett is faster than him currently, in the sand. Sorry, but Herlings would beat Jett 9 out of 10 times in rough sand if you put him back on the KTM. I don't think anyone would argue that.

What's he supposed to say? "if I was on my KTM it would have been more of a battle"? Where he is now with that team and bike, yes he was beaten fare and square.

 

Tell me, what exactly was wrong with Herlings' pace and/or rythm last weekend? Everyone else was gapped up to a minute. How "good in the sand on the Honda" do you want him to be then? Gapping everyone up to a minute and a half? Two minutes? Lapping up to 3rd place? Or what?

There's nothing wrong with the Honda. There's nothing wrong with Herlings. So, to answer your question, yes, that's as good as he will be in the sand on the Honda, at this moment. Could be he gells even more with his new bike in June (Latvia) and August (Lommel and Arnhem).

3
jambalaya
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1 day ago
DeStouwer wrote:
I just can't understand why fans necessarily want to blame the Honda because Herlings gets beaten twice in the sand. Is it out of denial because...

I just can't understand why fans necessarily want to blame the Honda because Herlings gets beaten twice in the sand. Is it out of denial because it's an unusual thing to see for the past 17 years? Herlings himself admits he got beaten fair and square. What's more to argue about?

aees wrote:
Herlings himself has said, the Honda is not as good in the sand as it is on hard packed. They have done a lot of job...

Herlings himself has said, the Honda is not as good in the sand as it is on hard packed. They have done a lot of job to get to this point in the sand.

You think after 15y on the big bike steel chassi and KTM specifically, after like 5 races and 3 months, that's as good as he will be in the sand on the Honda?

He also said he didn't think even Jett could hang with Lucas, saying Jett is faster than him currently, in the sand. Sorry, but Herlings would beat Jett 9 out of 10 times in rough sand if you put him back on the KTM. I don't think anyone would argue that.

What's he supposed to say? "if I was on my KTM it would have been more of a battle"? Where he is now with that team and bike, yes he was beaten fare and square.

 

DeStouwer wrote:
Tell me, what exactly was wrong with Herlings' pace and/or rythm last weekend? Everyone else was gapped up to a minute. How "good in the sand...

Tell me, what exactly was wrong with Herlings' pace and/or rythm last weekend? Everyone else was gapped up to a minute. How "good in the sand on the Honda" do you want him to be then? Gapping everyone up to a minute and a half? Two minutes? Lapping up to 3rd place? Or what?

There's nothing wrong with the Honda. There's nothing wrong with Herlings. So, to answer your question, yes, that's as good as he will be in the sand on the Honda, at this moment. Could be he gells even more with his new bike in June (Latvia) and August (Lommel and Arnhem).

What was wrong with it is that Herlings at his best gets beat by nobody and he got beat. 

Probably age, injuries, and new bike catching up but anyone trying to make the argument that he's better than he ever was and still getting smoked is high 

1
aees
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1 day ago
DeStouwer wrote:
I just can't understand why fans necessarily want to blame the Honda because Herlings gets beaten twice in the sand. Is it out of denial because...

I just can't understand why fans necessarily want to blame the Honda because Herlings gets beaten twice in the sand. Is it out of denial because it's an unusual thing to see for the past 17 years? Herlings himself admits he got beaten fair and square. What's more to argue about?

aees wrote:
Herlings himself has said, the Honda is not as good in the sand as it is on hard packed. They have done a lot of job...

Herlings himself has said, the Honda is not as good in the sand as it is on hard packed. They have done a lot of job to get to this point in the sand.

You think after 15y on the big bike steel chassi and KTM specifically, after like 5 races and 3 months, that's as good as he will be in the sand on the Honda?

He also said he didn't think even Jett could hang with Lucas, saying Jett is faster than him currently, in the sand. Sorry, but Herlings would beat Jett 9 out of 10 times in rough sand if you put him back on the KTM. I don't think anyone would argue that.

What's he supposed to say? "if I was on my KTM it would have been more of a battle"? Where he is now with that team and bike, yes he was beaten fare and square.

 

DeStouwer wrote:
Tell me, what exactly was wrong with Herlings' pace and/or rythm last weekend? Everyone else was gapped up to a minute. How "good in the sand...

Tell me, what exactly was wrong with Herlings' pace and/or rythm last weekend? Everyone else was gapped up to a minute. How "good in the sand on the Honda" do you want him to be then? Gapping everyone up to a minute and a half? Two minutes? Lapping up to 3rd place? Or what?

There's nothing wrong with the Honda. There's nothing wrong with Herlings. So, to answer your question, yes, that's as good as he will be in the sand on the Honda, at this moment. Could be he gells even more with his new bike in June (Latvia) and August (Lommel and Arnhem).

Not sure why you keep insisting there is nothing wrong with the Honda. And of course at this moment, it's as good as he will be on the Honda. That's the point 😄

There is zero chance that he after 2 sand races and 3 months, have nailed the Honda as good as the KTM, when he had said that the Honda is not as good in the sand.

So yes, that's the 1 and 19 sec margin erased if he's on the KTM. 

1

The Shop

DeStouwer
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1 day ago Edited Date/Time 1 day ago
aees wrote:
Herlings himself has said, the Honda is not as good in the sand as it is on hard packed. They have done a lot of job...

Herlings himself has said, the Honda is not as good in the sand as it is on hard packed. They have done a lot of job to get to this point in the sand.

You think after 15y on the big bike steel chassi and KTM specifically, after like 5 races and 3 months, that's as good as he will be in the sand on the Honda?

He also said he didn't think even Jett could hang with Lucas, saying Jett is faster than him currently, in the sand. Sorry, but Herlings would beat Jett 9 out of 10 times in rough sand if you put him back on the KTM. I don't think anyone would argue that.

What's he supposed to say? "if I was on my KTM it would have been more of a battle"? Where he is now with that team and bike, yes he was beaten fare and square.

 

DeStouwer wrote:
Tell me, what exactly was wrong with Herlings' pace and/or rythm last weekend? Everyone else was gapped up to a minute. How "good in the sand...

Tell me, what exactly was wrong with Herlings' pace and/or rythm last weekend? Everyone else was gapped up to a minute. How "good in the sand on the Honda" do you want him to be then? Gapping everyone up to a minute and a half? Two minutes? Lapping up to 3rd place? Or what?

There's nothing wrong with the Honda. There's nothing wrong with Herlings. So, to answer your question, yes, that's as good as he will be in the sand on the Honda, at this moment. Could be he gells even more with his new bike in June (Latvia) and August (Lommel and Arnhem).

aees wrote:
Not sure why you keep insisting there is nothing wrong with the Honda. And of course at this moment, it's as good as he will be...

Not sure why you keep insisting there is nothing wrong with the Honda. And of course at this moment, it's as good as he will be on the Honda. That's the point 😄

There is zero chance that he after 2 sand races and 3 months, have nailed the Honda as good as the KTM, when he had said that the Honda is not as good in the sand.

So yes, that's the 1 and 19 sec margin erased if he's on the KTM. 

Well, because there's nothing wrong with the Honda? As proven in past years and this year? He won a GP on the Honda on his very first attempt, which was a quite surprising sandy track. He nearly won the GP last weekend. So what I don't understand is you keep insisting it's the bike to blame he didn't win. There was a guy who was (slightly) better for the overall. Why is that SO hard for you to admit? 

teamddr
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1 day ago
teamddr wrote:
This should be titled “ Coenen beats a 34 year old 5 time world champion”When Herlings was Coenens age he was lapping podium finishers. Coenen is...

This should be titled “ Coenen beats a 34 year old 5 time world champion”

When Herlings was Coenens age he was lapping podium finishers. Coenen is something else but I remember when Herlings was that age. To summarize coenen is currently the fastest sand rider in the world but Herlings was the fastest ever.

 

kpiper wrote:

Isn't Herlings still just 31?

Sorry 31 and beat up pretty bad. The guy has a fused foot. I don’t think it takes away from the argument. Jesus if herlings does manage to beat Coenen this year on sand some people on here will be pulling their hair out. He’s 31 and his body is very tired. He still blew away a lot of quality riders. L

1
18 hours ago

What stopped the twins from coming and racing Southwick last year? 

Funny how it's always the GP guys expected to travel to the US to "prove themselves" in a one-off race. When was the last time a...

Funny how it's always the GP guys expected to travel to the US to "prove themselves" in a one-off race. When was the last time a top US rider turned up as a wildcard at a non-US GP.?

We have significantly fewer weekends off

Herlings had one weekend off and used it to ride a borrowed bike at Ironman, along with all the other guys from GP's who have done it over the years. What do you think they're doing on any other weekends off; they're training, testing etc. GP guys keep being told "well, yeah, come over here and prove your speed!" and they keep doing so. Time for a few US riders to return the favour.

Pretty lame excuse tbh..

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Mavetism
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18 hours ago Edited Date/Time 18 hours ago

What stopped the twins from coming and racing Southwick last year? 

Funny how it's always the GP guys expected to travel to the US to "prove themselves" in a one-off race. When was the last time a...

Funny how it's always the GP guys expected to travel to the US to "prove themselves" in a one-off race. When was the last time a top US rider turned up as a wildcard at a non-US GP.?

We have significantly fewer weekends off

Have you even seen their schedule over the past years? Do you know how ridiculous it is in terms of traveling and shipping?

Guess what's between Netherlands and Turkiye. Yeah right, Ironman. You think it's a good idea to come over for Ironman for example and then have a straight 6 week schedule with Sweden > Netherlands > USA (Ironman) > Turkiye > China > Australia. 

The only single free weekend that makes sense this year would be Southwick and even that one is right between the South Africa GP and the Britain GP. I hope they come over for that race, but considering Lucas will be in the title fight (most likely points leader) I'm not optimistic.

Here an example of their stupid schedule (on top of that the people in charge thought it was a good idea to hold an WMX round in Australia lol).

Screenshot 1
3
Mavetism
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18 hours ago
Funny how it's always the GP guys expected to travel to the US to "prove themselves" in a one-off race. When was the last time a...

Funny how it's always the GP guys expected to travel to the US to "prove themselves" in a one-off race. When was the last time a top US rider turned up as a wildcard at a non-US GP.?

We have significantly fewer weekends off

Herlings had one weekend off and used it to ride a borrowed bike at Ironman, along with all the other guys from GP's who have done...

Herlings had one weekend off and used it to ride a borrowed bike at Ironman, along with all the other guys from GP's who have done it over the years. What do you think they're doing on any other weekends off; they're training, testing etc. GP guys keep being told "well, yeah, come over here and prove your speed!" and they keep doing so. Time for a few US riders to return the favour.

Pretty lame excuse tbh..

Also Herlings said he only did it because he was mathematically out of the points that year.

LP31
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18 hours ago

When you say Europe are you counting AUS and NZ in that…

 

CPR wrote:

If they develop through Europe yes, otherwise no.

so then Davies counts as a US talent? SMX/Goat Farm developed

Ben Townley developed in NZ!

2
LP31
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18 hours ago

Think we might see Coenen in Redbull KTM next to Tomac and Prado next yr.

Jett, Deegan, Prado, Coenen, Hunter etc bring it on.

18 hours ago

We have significantly fewer weekends off

Herlings had one weekend off and used it to ride a borrowed bike at Ironman, along with all the other guys from GP's who have done...

Herlings had one weekend off and used it to ride a borrowed bike at Ironman, along with all the other guys from GP's who have done it over the years. What do you think they're doing on any other weekends off; they're training, testing etc. GP guys keep being told "well, yeah, come over here and prove your speed!" and they keep doing so. Time for a few US riders to return the favour.

Pretty lame excuse tbh..

Mavetism wrote:

Also Herlings said he only did it because he was mathematically out of the points that year.

He still showed up and put his reputation on the line on a track he'd never seen, on a bike he wasn't familiar with. The whole AMA v GP thing was insane back then. He had a lot to lose and the US fans would've slaughtered him online if it hadn't gone well, but he showed a lot of self belief and balls to do it anyway.

There will be a lot of US riders also mathematically out of the points by mid season. It'd be great to see some come over and do a GP.

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aees
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17 hours ago
DeStouwer wrote:
Tell me, what exactly was wrong with Herlings' pace and/or rythm last weekend? Everyone else was gapped up to a minute. How "good in the sand...

Tell me, what exactly was wrong with Herlings' pace and/or rythm last weekend? Everyone else was gapped up to a minute. How "good in the sand on the Honda" do you want him to be then? Gapping everyone up to a minute and a half? Two minutes? Lapping up to 3rd place? Or what?

There's nothing wrong with the Honda. There's nothing wrong with Herlings. So, to answer your question, yes, that's as good as he will be in the sand on the Honda, at this moment. Could be he gells even more with his new bike in June (Latvia) and August (Lommel and Arnhem).

aees wrote:
Not sure why you keep insisting there is nothing wrong with the Honda. And of course at this moment, it's as good as he will be...

Not sure why you keep insisting there is nothing wrong with the Honda. And of course at this moment, it's as good as he will be on the Honda. That's the point 😄

There is zero chance that he after 2 sand races and 3 months, have nailed the Honda as good as the KTM, when he had said that the Honda is not as good in the sand.

So yes, that's the 1 and 19 sec margin erased if he's on the KTM. 

DeStouwer wrote:
Well, because there's nothing wrong with the Honda? As proven in past years and this year? He won a GP on the Honda on his very...

Well, because there's nothing wrong with the Honda? As proven in past years and this year? He won a GP on the Honda on his very first attempt, which was a quite surprising sandy track. He nearly won the GP last weekend. So what I don't understand is you keep insisting it's the bike to blame he didn't win. There was a guy who was (slightly) better for the overall. Why is that SO hard for you to admit? 

I havent said there is anything wrong with the Honda. Herlings has said, it's not as good in the sand as on hard packed.

I still say, if he was on a KTM he could have gone with Lucas and probably beaten him. For sure if he gets better on the Honda later this year in sand, it will be hard to argue he wouldn't have been competitive past weekend if he was on a familiar bike rather than one he spent 3 months on.

Mavetism
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17 hours ago
Herlings had one weekend off and used it to ride a borrowed bike at Ironman, along with all the other guys from GP's who have done...

Herlings had one weekend off and used it to ride a borrowed bike at Ironman, along with all the other guys from GP's who have done it over the years. What do you think they're doing on any other weekends off; they're training, testing etc. GP guys keep being told "well, yeah, come over here and prove your speed!" and they keep doing so. Time for a few US riders to return the favour.

Pretty lame excuse tbh..

Mavetism wrote:

Also Herlings said he only did it because he was mathematically out of the points that year.

He still showed up and put his reputation on the line on a track he'd never seen, on a bike he wasn't familiar with. The whole...

He still showed up and put his reputation on the line on a track he'd never seen, on a bike he wasn't familiar with. The whole AMA v GP thing was insane back then. He had a lot to lose and the US fans would've slaughtered him online if it hadn't gone well, but he showed a lot of self belief and balls to do it anyway.

There will be a lot of US riders also mathematically out of the points by mid season. It'd be great to see some come over and do a GP.

That's why there needs to be an US GP again. The last time there was an US GP there were multiple AMA riders both 250 and 450 participating. Absolutely sucks there is none anymore, the people in charge rather go for parking lot tracks to make sure their own wallets keep gettin bigger.

There is a reason why MXON is the greatest MX event of the year.

1
16 hours ago
DeStouwer wrote:
I just can't understand why fans necessarily want to blame the Honda because Herlings gets beaten twice in the sand. Is it out of denial because...

I just can't understand why fans necessarily want to blame the Honda because Herlings gets beaten twice in the sand. Is it out of denial because it's an unusual thing to see for the past 17 years? Herlings himself admits he got beaten fair and square. What's more to argue about?

aees wrote:
Herlings himself has said, the Honda is not as good in the sand as it is on hard packed. They have done a lot of job...

Herlings himself has said, the Honda is not as good in the sand as it is on hard packed. They have done a lot of job to get to this point in the sand.

You think after 15y on the big bike steel chassi and KTM specifically, after like 5 races and 3 months, that's as good as he will be in the sand on the Honda?

He also said he didn't think even Jett could hang with Lucas, saying Jett is faster than him currently, in the sand. Sorry, but Herlings would beat Jett 9 out of 10 times in rough sand if you put him back on the KTM. I don't think anyone would argue that.

What's he supposed to say? "if I was on my KTM it would have been more of a battle"? Where he is now with that team and bike, yes he was beaten fare and square.

 

I dont think there's anything crazy about JH saying Jett couldn't beat Lucas on a "real" sand track. I'd be interested to see if Jett could keep it respectable. He's the best sand rider in the Nationals by a mile. Any other track surface, Jett has him covered. Its pretty damn impressive how good Lucas is at 19, thats for sure! Great things ahead

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