Venezuelan boats, stopping the illegal drug trade, etc…

avidchimp
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12/4/2025 11:49am
ToolMaker wrote:
You're phrasing that like that's the ONLY thing they're doing. It's not! How many "mules" are NOT carrying drugs across the border now vs 2 years...

You're phrasing that like that's the ONLY thing they're doing. It's not! How many "mules" are NOT carrying drugs across the border now vs 2 years ago? It's disingenuous to claim that they are ONLY blowing up drug boats.

avidchimp wrote:
What else are they doing? Are there raids being conducted on these cartel production facilities in Mexico, either by air or land, and we just aren't...

What else are they doing? Are there raids being conducted on these cartel production facilities in Mexico, either by air or land, and we just aren't hearing about it? How many pounds of drugs can a human mule bring across the border vs. personal vehicles, semi trucks, planes and cargo ships? What are we doing about the actual distribution network setup within our own borders? Surely if we can deduce with absolute certainty some random boat in international waters is carrying drugs we can figure out how drugs are being moved domestically and stop that? 

Just a dog and pony show for the masses to uphold the illusion an effort is actually being made.

ToolMaker wrote:
And this is why we could be friends, we could argue over how shitty of a job the government is doing till we run out of...

And this is why we could be friends, we could argue over how shitty of a job the government is doing till we run out of money to buy more beer!! 😁

TM

Indeed my friend. 😁

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1
El_Rayo
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12/4/2025 11:50am Edited Date/Time 12/4/2025 11:51am
Zycki11 wrote:
So now we need to allow them to enter the us under custody and spend money to send them back? Remember, they are hauling DRUGS on...

So now we need to allow them to enter the us under custody and spend money to send them back? Remember, they are hauling DRUGS on a boat which is ILLEGAL. Despite the circumstance, the United States is saying "We will not allow this to flood in our country" Much like having stiff laws the citizens understand the juice may not be worth the squeeze.  The feelings of empathy have zero business in this situation whatsoever. Peace through STRENGTH.  That means, don't fuck with us.

El_Rayo wrote:
Wait….so let me get this straight.You’re saying even hypothetically,  if they were regular citizens held against their families will, by the cartel, to drive a boat...

Wait….so let me get this straight.


You’re saying even hypothetically,  if they were regular citizens held against their families will, by the cartel, to drive a boat to the U.S. , 


You still would want them to be blown up and killed? 

Zycki11 wrote:
I do not want anyone blown up or killed, but I do believe in peace through strength. One of two things will happen and that is...

I do not want anyone blown up or killed, but I do believe in peace through strength. One of two things will happen and that is, Cartels don't give a shit and continue and try the same methods utilizing "threatened family men"(for the record I am of belief this is happening) which will end in the same exact fashion, the Cartel losing a ton of money and product. Or they get the picture and more than likely flood Canada with more drugs and try and get it across the northern border. 

First option sucks for human life no doubt about it.  But say it saves one extra shipment of fentanyl coming in the country because they know it is an automatic loss of product. That alone saves millions of lives. If you were to catch and release said criminals... what is to stop them from coming right back on the very next boat? Same exact scenario as Saving Private Ryan letting the german soldier go back to the front lines, just to kill more Americans.  Were all German soldiers bad men? No they were not. But it is not our responsibility to police that emotional barrier.  They are bringing the deadliest chemical in the world to our shores period.  Cartels are terrorist organizations.... Organization....key word.  Of course they are going to do illegal evil things like sending innocent men on boats. Perhaps that is a political stunt they are pulling so people like yourself get upset? But it doesn't help protect our country and the people inside of it.  That is the bottom line


I was more upset by you advocating for the killing of innocent men who are driving boats of someone else’s narcotics, IF that was the case. 

”First option sucks for human life no doubt about it.  But say it saves one extra shipment of fentanyl coming in the country because they know it is an automatic loss of product. That alone saves millions of lives.” 

So you’re saying there’s no other possible way of stopping a boat coming to US waters? 

And if you bring up the point of it costing more resources, are you aware of how much a single strike, airline , or drone costs? Do you really think that’s the “cheaper alternative” then  just intercepting the boat when it gets here?

 

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Zycki11
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Edwardsville, IL, USA
12/4/2025 11:53am Edited Date/Time 12/4/2025 11:53am
El_Rayo wrote:
Wait….so let me get this straight.You’re saying even hypothetically,  if they were regular citizens held against their families will, by the cartel, to drive a boat...

Wait….so let me get this straight.


You’re saying even hypothetically,  if they were regular citizens held against their families will, by the cartel, to drive a boat to the U.S. , 


You still would want them to be blown up and killed? 

Zycki11 wrote:
I do not want anyone blown up or killed, but I do believe in peace through strength. One of two things will happen and that is...

I do not want anyone blown up or killed, but I do believe in peace through strength. One of two things will happen and that is, Cartels don't give a shit and continue and try the same methods utilizing "threatened family men"(for the record I am of belief this is happening) which will end in the same exact fashion, the Cartel losing a ton of money and product. Or they get the picture and more than likely flood Canada with more drugs and try and get it across the northern border. 

First option sucks for human life no doubt about it.  But say it saves one extra shipment of fentanyl coming in the country because they know it is an automatic loss of product. That alone saves millions of lives. If you were to catch and release said criminals... what is to stop them from coming right back on the very next boat? Same exact scenario as Saving Private Ryan letting the german soldier go back to the front lines, just to kill more Americans.  Were all German soldiers bad men? No they were not. But it is not our responsibility to police that emotional barrier.  They are bringing the deadliest chemical in the world to our shores period.  Cartels are terrorist organizations.... Organization....key word.  Of course they are going to do illegal evil things like sending innocent men on boats. Perhaps that is a political stunt they are pulling so people like yourself get upset? But it doesn't help protect our country and the people inside of it.  That is the bottom line

El_Rayo wrote:
I was more upset by you advocating for the killing of innocent men who are driving boats of someone else’s narcotics, IF that was the case. ”First...


I was more upset by you advocating for the killing of innocent men who are driving boats of someone else’s narcotics, IF that was the case. 

”First option sucks for human life no doubt about it.  But say it saves one extra shipment of fentanyl coming in the country because they know it is an automatic loss of product. That alone saves millions of lives.” 

So you’re saying there’s no other possible way of stopping a boat coming to US waters? 

And if you bring up the point of it costing more resources, are you aware of how much a single strike, airline , or drone costs? Do you really think that’s the “cheaper alternative” then  just intercepting the boat when it gets here?

 

Ok intercept the boat... what do you do with the people? You still haven't addressed the issue at hand. You send them back, they come right back on the next one.  Your trying to break it all down to prove a specific point that it is un moral for us to blow up the boats right? Well, each one of those boats contains drugs that will kill millions of young kids, adolescents, and adults. So which is more moral? Boat operators, or millions of people? I personally prefer less death but that is just me.  

7
LoudLove
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USA
12/4/2025 11:53am
avidchimp wrote:
What else are they doing? Are there raids being conducted on these cartel production facilities in Mexico, either by air or land, and we just aren't...

What else are they doing? Are there raids being conducted on these cartel production facilities in Mexico, either by air or land, and we just aren't hearing about it? How many pounds of drugs can a human mule bring across the border vs. personal vehicles, semi trucks, planes and cargo ships? What are we doing about the actual distribution network setup within our own borders? Surely if we can deduce with absolute certainty some random boat in international waters is carrying drugs we can figure out how drugs are being moved domestically and stop that? 

Just a dog and pony show for the masses to uphold the illusion an effort is actually being made.

ToolMaker wrote:
And this is why we could be friends, we could argue over how shitty of a job the government is doing till we run out of...

And this is why we could be friends, we could argue over how shitty of a job the government is doing till we run out of money to buy more beer!! 😁

TM

avidchimp wrote:

Indeed my friend. 😁

If “shitty government” is the subject, there’s not enough beer…

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1

The Shop

LoudLove
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USA
12/4/2025 11:57am
Zycki11 wrote:
I do not want anyone blown up or killed, but I do believe in peace through strength. One of two things will happen and that is...

I do not want anyone blown up or killed, but I do believe in peace through strength. One of two things will happen and that is, Cartels don't give a shit and continue and try the same methods utilizing "threatened family men"(for the record I am of belief this is happening) which will end in the same exact fashion, the Cartel losing a ton of money and product. Or they get the picture and more than likely flood Canada with more drugs and try and get it across the northern border. 

First option sucks for human life no doubt about it.  But say it saves one extra shipment of fentanyl coming in the country because they know it is an automatic loss of product. That alone saves millions of lives. If you were to catch and release said criminals... what is to stop them from coming right back on the very next boat? Same exact scenario as Saving Private Ryan letting the german soldier go back to the front lines, just to kill more Americans.  Were all German soldiers bad men? No they were not. But it is not our responsibility to police that emotional barrier.  They are bringing the deadliest chemical in the world to our shores period.  Cartels are terrorist organizations.... Organization....key word.  Of course they are going to do illegal evil things like sending innocent men on boats. Perhaps that is a political stunt they are pulling so people like yourself get upset? But it doesn't help protect our country and the people inside of it.  That is the bottom line

El_Rayo wrote:
I was more upset by you advocating for the killing of innocent men who are driving boats of someone else’s narcotics, IF that was the case. ”First...


I was more upset by you advocating for the killing of innocent men who are driving boats of someone else’s narcotics, IF that was the case. 

”First option sucks for human life no doubt about it.  But say it saves one extra shipment of fentanyl coming in the country because they know it is an automatic loss of product. That alone saves millions of lives.” 

So you’re saying there’s no other possible way of stopping a boat coming to US waters? 

And if you bring up the point of it costing more resources, are you aware of how much a single strike, airline , or drone costs? Do you really think that’s the “cheaper alternative” then  just intercepting the boat when it gets here?

 

Zycki11 wrote:
Ok intercept the boat... what do you do with the people? You still haven't addressed the issue at hand. You send them back, they come right...

Ok intercept the boat... what do you do with the people? You still haven't addressed the issue at hand. You send them back, they come right back on the next one.  Your trying to break it all down to prove a specific point that it is un moral for us to blow up the boats right? Well, each one of those boats contains drugs that will kill millions of young kids, adolescents, and adults. So which is more moral? Boat operators, or millions of people? I personally prefer less death but that is just me.  

Well, military action is based on intel. And in most cases, people who are alive provide greater intel than dead folks. But that’s just a theory. 

“each one of those boats contains drugs that will kill millions of young kids, adolescents, and adults.” Seems like a dramatic extrapolation as each boat represents a small fraction of total imports. Again, just a theory. 

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Zycki11
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Edwardsville, IL, USA
12/4/2025 12:00pm Edited Date/Time 12/4/2025 12:02pm
El_Rayo wrote:
I was more upset by you advocating for the killing of innocent men who are driving boats of someone else’s narcotics, IF that was the case. ”First...


I was more upset by you advocating for the killing of innocent men who are driving boats of someone else’s narcotics, IF that was the case. 

”First option sucks for human life no doubt about it.  But say it saves one extra shipment of fentanyl coming in the country because they know it is an automatic loss of product. That alone saves millions of lives.” 

So you’re saying there’s no other possible way of stopping a boat coming to US waters? 

And if you bring up the point of it costing more resources, are you aware of how much a single strike, airline , or drone costs? Do you really think that’s the “cheaper alternative” then  just intercepting the boat when it gets here?

 

Zycki11 wrote:
Ok intercept the boat... what do you do with the people? You still haven't addressed the issue at hand. You send them back, they come right...

Ok intercept the boat... what do you do with the people? You still haven't addressed the issue at hand. You send them back, they come right back on the next one.  Your trying to break it all down to prove a specific point that it is un moral for us to blow up the boats right? Well, each one of those boats contains drugs that will kill millions of young kids, adolescents, and adults. So which is more moral? Boat operators, or millions of people? I personally prefer less death but that is just me.  

LoudLove wrote:
Well, military action is based on intel. And in most cases, people who are alive provide greater intel than dead folks. But that’s just a theory. “each...

Well, military action is based on intel. And in most cases, people who are alive provide greater intel than dead folks. But that’s just a theory. 

“each one of those boats contains drugs that will kill millions of young kids, adolescents, and adults.” Seems like a dramatic extrapolation as each boat represents a small fraction of total imports. Again, just a theory. 

If you understand how Fentanyl works, then you will understand.  Trying to downplay the significance and danger of a drug is no joke. It takes VERY little to kill a human roughly 2mg which is 2-3 pebbles of table salt.  Each boat contains hundreds of pounds of this stuff. Do the math

This doesn't even include the cocaine and other substances.  But hey... I get your point.....

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El_Rayo
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Valparaiso, IN, USA
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12/4/2025 12:08pm
Zycki11 wrote:
I do not want anyone blown up or killed, but I do believe in peace through strength. One of two things will happen and that is...

I do not want anyone blown up or killed, but I do believe in peace through strength. One of two things will happen and that is, Cartels don't give a shit and continue and try the same methods utilizing "threatened family men"(for the record I am of belief this is happening) which will end in the same exact fashion, the Cartel losing a ton of money and product. Or they get the picture and more than likely flood Canada with more drugs and try and get it across the northern border. 

First option sucks for human life no doubt about it.  But say it saves one extra shipment of fentanyl coming in the country because they know it is an automatic loss of product. That alone saves millions of lives. If you were to catch and release said criminals... what is to stop them from coming right back on the very next boat? Same exact scenario as Saving Private Ryan letting the german soldier go back to the front lines, just to kill more Americans.  Were all German soldiers bad men? No they were not. But it is not our responsibility to police that emotional barrier.  They are bringing the deadliest chemical in the world to our shores period.  Cartels are terrorist organizations.... Organization....key word.  Of course they are going to do illegal evil things like sending innocent men on boats. Perhaps that is a political stunt they are pulling so people like yourself get upset? But it doesn't help protect our country and the people inside of it.  That is the bottom line

El_Rayo wrote:
I was more upset by you advocating for the killing of innocent men who are driving boats of someone else’s narcotics, IF that was the case. ”First...


I was more upset by you advocating for the killing of innocent men who are driving boats of someone else’s narcotics, IF that was the case. 

”First option sucks for human life no doubt about it.  But say it saves one extra shipment of fentanyl coming in the country because they know it is an automatic loss of product. That alone saves millions of lives.” 

So you’re saying there’s no other possible way of stopping a boat coming to US waters? 

And if you bring up the point of it costing more resources, are you aware of how much a single strike, airline , or drone costs? Do you really think that’s the “cheaper alternative” then  just intercepting the boat when it gets here?

 

Zycki11 wrote:
Ok intercept the boat... what do you do with the people? You still haven't addressed the issue at hand. You send them back, they come right...

Ok intercept the boat... what do you do with the people? You still haven't addressed the issue at hand. You send them back, they come right back on the next one.  Your trying to break it all down to prove a specific point that it is un moral for us to blow up the boats right? Well, each one of those boats contains drugs that will kill millions of young kids, adolescents, and adults. So which is more moral? Boat operators, or millions of people? I personally prefer less death but that is just me.  

Um…you do realize intercepting those boats still save the life of the supposed innocent and the lives of the People who are trying to buy the drugs *cough, cough *
Americans, right?

To your exact words, that is the option with “less death”

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3
flow
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12/4/2025 12:17pm
avidchimp wrote:
I know all of that, but you didn't answer the question... How is blowing up a handful of boats making a difference if the goal is...

I know all of that, but you didn't answer the question... How is blowing up a handful of boats making a difference if the goal is to eradicate the cartels and the drugs that are proliferating our country? How about clamping down on the distribution cartel within our own borders?

Or is it just a dog and pony show to make people think our government actually gives a damn about fixing the problem? Yes, that was a rhetorical question.

Chiming in - It almost certainly won't in the long run. When a route's risk factor becomes to high, it's not like drug trade is like "well Yanks, you've done it now. You've defeated me". In the 80's we cracked down on the Carribean ➡️ Miami trade routes. In the 90's we did the same to the Colombians. Both shifted trade to the Mexican corridor. In more recent years we got after Mexico and it shifted things to Honduras & Guatemala (as well as just splintering the primary 5-6 cartels into like 12-13 new factions, as well as a plethora of smaller regional mini-cartels. Trying to stop it by containing the problem directly is like trying to use your hands to block water flowing out of a colander. Even at a deeper level than cracking down on our domestic cartel issues (which probably would be the same futile effort), we're also dealing with a heap of shit:

Guns are purchased legally and then trafficked southwards. How do we rectify that without violating 2A? 

The drug wars have driven billions in spending on surveillance tech, aircraft, sensors, intelligence systems, consulting, and militarized policing. U.S. (as well as international) private security and defense contractors are making bank. 

HSBC got caught laundering cartel money so you can be assured that more banks are involved in this. Incremental reforms happened, but it all rides on the fact that reporting suspicious activity largely remains a responsibility of the banks themselves. Plus even with AI, we're a long ways away from well-meaning banks being able to monitor the millions of daily transfers. Regulators are understaffed. Cartel money moves through multiple jurisdictions which makes joint efforts with other countries hard. Fines are inconsequential to massive banks. Also there may be a conflict of interest in the country when it comes to examining money transfers (especially with Shell companies). 

Drug Demand. We could strongly affect drug demand by decriminalizing or creating opportunities for lower risk use. There's a possibility that this could result in less chaos in the long run (decades) but would result in things being worse optically in the short run. And politicians love to weaponize chaos so the odds that both sides of the aisle could hold steady for long enough to see positive change feels to me like near-zero. 

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BusterScruggs
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Stephenville, TX, USA
12/4/2025 12:40pm

You know why they designated the Cartels as Terrorists? Now they are, “Enemy Combatants”. Hence why they can legally be blown up in International Waters. Again, don’t have a law degree, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. 

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soggy
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12/4/2025 12:44pm
sumdood wrote:
I haven't read every post so don't know if this angle has been brought up yet. This is from a friends post who lives in Baja...

I haven't read every post so don't know if this angle has been brought up yet. This is from a friends post who lives in Baja.  

Just a heads up most of these so called cartel members that we are killing on these boats are poor fisherman that have had their entire family threatened to be killed or drive the cartels boats.
These people are not cartel.
They are just poor people .
Just another opinion from a crazy asshole . Just a crazy idea.
If you can see and bomb these boats , why can't you board them.
Human life is becoming meaningless to our country.
Zycki11 wrote:
So now we need to allow them to enter the us under custody and spend money to send them back? Remember, they are hauling DRUGS on...

So now we need to allow them to enter the us under custody and spend money to send them back? Remember, they are hauling DRUGS on a boat which is ILLEGAL. Despite the circumstance, the United States is saying "We will not allow this to flood in our country" Much like having stiff laws the citizens understand the juice may not be worth the squeeze.  The feelings of empathy have zero business in this situation whatsoever. Peace through STRENGTH.  That means, don't fuck with us.

this shits all window dressing. If we assume the boats have drugs we could presumably find out where the drugs are coming from and could cut off the head of the snake. Problem is the ‘war’ on drugs makes too much money and would cause harm to the economy if we shut it down. 

Hell Miami was built on coke money. 

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R66
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12/4/2025 12:50pm

Anyone ever heard of a deterrent?

 

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Zycki11
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12/4/2025 12:58pm
sumdood wrote:
I haven't read every post so don't know if this angle has been brought up yet. This is from a friends post who lives in Baja...

I haven't read every post so don't know if this angle has been brought up yet. This is from a friends post who lives in Baja.  

Just a heads up most of these so called cartel members that we are killing on these boats are poor fisherman that have had their entire family threatened to be killed or drive the cartels boats.
These people are not cartel.
They are just poor people .
Just another opinion from a crazy asshole . Just a crazy idea.
If you can see and bomb these boats , why can't you board them.
Human life is becoming meaningless to our country.
Zycki11 wrote:
So now we need to allow them to enter the us under custody and spend money to send them back? Remember, they are hauling DRUGS on...

So now we need to allow them to enter the us under custody and spend money to send them back? Remember, they are hauling DRUGS on a boat which is ILLEGAL. Despite the circumstance, the United States is saying "We will not allow this to flood in our country" Much like having stiff laws the citizens understand the juice may not be worth the squeeze.  The feelings of empathy have zero business in this situation whatsoever. Peace through STRENGTH.  That means, don't fuck with us.

soggy wrote:
this shits all window dressing. If we assume the boats have drugs we could presumably find out where the drugs are coming from and could cut...

this shits all window dressing. If we assume the boats have drugs we could presumably find out where the drugs are coming from and could cut off the head of the snake. Problem is the ‘war’ on drugs makes too much money and would cause harm to the economy if we shut it down. 

Hell Miami was built on coke money. 

I completely agree.  We know exactly whats on the boats and where it comes from. Do not get me wrong, I am all for decisive action that handles situations.  I have my frustrations as well. 

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Zycki11
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12/4/2025 1:02pm
El_Rayo wrote:
I was more upset by you advocating for the killing of innocent men who are driving boats of someone else’s narcotics, IF that was the case. ”First...


I was more upset by you advocating for the killing of innocent men who are driving boats of someone else’s narcotics, IF that was the case. 

”First option sucks for human life no doubt about it.  But say it saves one extra shipment of fentanyl coming in the country because they know it is an automatic loss of product. That alone saves millions of lives.” 

So you’re saying there’s no other possible way of stopping a boat coming to US waters? 

And if you bring up the point of it costing more resources, are you aware of how much a single strike, airline , or drone costs? Do you really think that’s the “cheaper alternative” then  just intercepting the boat when it gets here?

 

Zycki11 wrote:
Ok intercept the boat... what do you do with the people? You still haven't addressed the issue at hand. You send them back, they come right...

Ok intercept the boat... what do you do with the people? You still haven't addressed the issue at hand. You send them back, they come right back on the next one.  Your trying to break it all down to prove a specific point that it is un moral for us to blow up the boats right? Well, each one of those boats contains drugs that will kill millions of young kids, adolescents, and adults. So which is more moral? Boat operators, or millions of people? I personally prefer less death but that is just me.  

El_Rayo wrote:
Um…you do realize intercepting those boats still save the life of the supposed innocent and the lives of the People who are trying to buy the...

Um…you do realize intercepting those boats still save the life of the supposed innocent and the lives of the People who are trying to buy the drugs *cough, cough *
Americans, right?

To your exact words, that is the option with “less death”

You still haven't answered the obvious question here... What do you do with the people on the boats? If you send them back, they come back on another boat. You still don't address the issue. If you blow the fucker up, they think a little harder about it, because again. They only have so much manpower.  Not all of them are friendly farmers. 

6
mvd61
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Brandon, SD, USA
12/4/2025 1:08pm
Zycki11 wrote:
Ok intercept the boat... what do you do with the people? You still haven't addressed the issue at hand. You send them back, they come right...

Ok intercept the boat... what do you do with the people? You still haven't addressed the issue at hand. You send them back, they come right back on the next one.  Your trying to break it all down to prove a specific point that it is un moral for us to blow up the boats right? Well, each one of those boats contains drugs that will kill millions of young kids, adolescents, and adults. So which is more moral? Boat operators, or millions of people? I personally prefer less death but that is just me.  

LoudLove wrote:
Well, military action is based on intel. And in most cases, people who are alive provide greater intel than dead folks. But that’s just a theory. “each...

Well, military action is based on intel. And in most cases, people who are alive provide greater intel than dead folks. But that’s just a theory. 

“each one of those boats contains drugs that will kill millions of young kids, adolescents, and adults.” Seems like a dramatic extrapolation as each boat represents a small fraction of total imports. Again, just a theory. 

Zycki11 wrote:
If you understand how Fentanyl works, then you will understand.  Trying to downplay the significance and danger of a drug is no joke. It takes VERY...

If you understand how Fentanyl works, then you will understand.  Trying to downplay the significance and danger of a drug is no joke. It takes VERY little to kill a human roughly 2mg which is 2-3 pebbles of table salt.  Each boat contains hundreds of pounds of this stuff. Do the math

This doesn't even include the cocaine and other substances.  But hey... I get your point.....

Zycki our own DEA says there is no link to Venezuela and fentanyl. They traffic coke for Columbia. A majority of that coke is destined for Europe. Mexico is the source of the fentanyl.

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1
12/4/2025 1:20pm
Zycki11 wrote:
Ok intercept the boat... what do you do with the people? You still haven't addressed the issue at hand. You send them back, they come right...

Ok intercept the boat... what do you do with the people? You still haven't addressed the issue at hand. You send them back, they come right back on the next one.  Your trying to break it all down to prove a specific point that it is un moral for us to blow up the boats right? Well, each one of those boats contains drugs that will kill millions of young kids, adolescents, and adults. So which is more moral? Boat operators, or millions of people? I personally prefer less death but that is just me.  

El_Rayo wrote:
Um…you do realize intercepting those boats still save the life of the supposed innocent and the lives of the People who are trying to buy the...

Um…you do realize intercepting those boats still save the life of the supposed innocent and the lives of the People who are trying to buy the drugs *cough, cough *
Americans, right?

To your exact words, that is the option with “less death”

Zycki11 wrote:
You still haven't answered the obvious question here... What do you do with the people on the boats? If you send them back, they come back...

You still haven't answered the obvious question here... What do you do with the people on the boats? If you send them back, they come back on another boat. You still don't address the issue. If you blow the fucker up, they think a little harder about it, because again. They only have so much manpower.  Not all of them are friendly farmers. 

Zycki, you'll have raw fingers soon. Some folks don't understand the message is more powerful than the action. This will be a very short lived trafficking method because they now know, their boats will get blown out of the water. Then we can move on. They have operated freely for too many years. The message is, we are serious about stopping you. And this being all over the media is only better for the message.

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soggy
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12/4/2025 1:25pm Edited Date/Time 12/4/2025 1:26pm
Zycki11 wrote:
Ok intercept the boat... what do you do with the people? You still haven't addressed the issue at hand. You send them back, they come right...

Ok intercept the boat... what do you do with the people? You still haven't addressed the issue at hand. You send them back, they come right back on the next one.  Your trying to break it all down to prove a specific point that it is un moral for us to blow up the boats right? Well, each one of those boats contains drugs that will kill millions of young kids, adolescents, and adults. So which is more moral? Boat operators, or millions of people? I personally prefer less death but that is just me.  

El_Rayo wrote:
Um…you do realize intercepting those boats still save the life of the supposed innocent and the lives of the People who are trying to buy the...

Um…you do realize intercepting those boats still save the life of the supposed innocent and the lives of the People who are trying to buy the drugs *cough, cough *
Americans, right?

To your exact words, that is the option with “less death”

Zycki11 wrote:
You still haven't answered the obvious question here... What do you do with the people on the boats? If you send them back, they come back...

You still haven't answered the obvious question here... What do you do with the people on the boats? If you send them back, they come back on another boat. You still don't address the issue. If you blow the fucker up, they think a little harder about it, because again. They only have so much manpower.  Not all of them are friendly farmers. 

Chances are if they are working for the cartel saying no would be far worse for them and there family. 

We could get rid of the production facilities tomorrow if we actually wanted to do something with tangible benefits. 

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BusterScruggs
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Stephenville, TX, USA
12/4/2025 1:45pm
ToolMaker wrote:
Zycki, you'll have raw fingers soon. Some folks don't understand the message is more powerful than the action. This will be a very short lived trafficking...

Zycki, you'll have raw fingers soon. Some folks don't understand the message is more powerful than the action. This will be a very short lived trafficking method because they now know, their boats will get blown out of the water. Then we can move on. They have operated freely for too many years. The message is, we are serious about stopping you. And this being all over the media is only better for the message.

They won’t stop, they’ll just devise another method of transportation. 

As previously stated by numerous folks in this thread, Mexico is the second REAL problem. Our taste for illegal substances being the largest. 
 

Why did we pick the poor Totalitarian Socialist regime of Maduro? It has zero to do with dope, that’s a great dog and pony show, to take focus off of regime change. 

As long as I’ve been alive, this shit always turns around to bite us in the ass. From the Shaw of Iran, Iraq’s Saddam Hussein, Panama’s Manuel Noriega, et al. 

P.S. (I fully support the use of the entire military force, to stop the importation of dope). 
 

sumdood
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San Clemente, CA, USA
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12/4/2025 2:04pm
sumdood wrote:
I haven't read every post so don't know if this angle has been brought up yet. This is from a friends post who lives in Baja...

I haven't read every post so don't know if this angle has been brought up yet. This is from a friends post who lives in Baja.  

Just a heads up most of these so called cartel members that we are killing on these boats are poor fisherman that have had their entire family threatened to be killed or drive the cartels boats.
These people are not cartel.
They are just poor people .
Just another opinion from a crazy asshole . Just a crazy idea.
If you can see and bomb these boats , why can't you board them.
Human life is becoming meaningless to our country.
ToolMaker wrote:
So you're saying that by blowing the shit out of the boat and the crew getting killed in the process is actually saving the lives of...

So you're saying that by blowing the shit out of the boat and the crew getting killed in the process is actually saving the lives of the families back home because the poor fisherman did what they were supposed to? Because if the "poor fisherman" stopped and surrendered the boat, many more lives would be ended, except those lives would be ended by the cartel. Just thinking out of the box here. And BTW, the cartels care more about the boats and semisubmersibles then the people driving the boat. They pay big bucks for those vessels. Do you remember back in the 70s-80s where private yachts were being pirated and then used as disposable drug running vessels?

I seriousness, if the boats are getting blown up, the cartels will stop this form of transportation and the "local villagers" will be more safe because they won't be required to drive the vessels anymore if that is the working theory.

And to the "why don't we do xyz" crowd. These guys can walk and chew gum. This is not the only disruption to the trade they are doing.

That was a repost from someone who lives down there. I just shared it because it seemed like something those low lifes might actually do. What you said makes sense, I'm sure they could give a rats ass about any human, regardless if it's a poor fisherman or one of their loyal employees. 

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LoudLove
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12/4/2025 2:09pm

It’s not about the drugs. Never has been. It’s a flex against Maduro. Plain and simple. If Trump’s team were truly interested in impacting fentanyl shipments they would focus on Pacific routes and Mexico. The evidence clearly supports it, but again, it’s not about the drugs…

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Zycki11
Posts
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Location
Edwardsville, IL, USA
12/4/2025 2:37pm
El_Rayo wrote:
Um…you do realize intercepting those boats still save the life of the supposed innocent and the lives of the People who are trying to buy the...

Um…you do realize intercepting those boats still save the life of the supposed innocent and the lives of the People who are trying to buy the drugs *cough, cough *
Americans, right?

To your exact words, that is the option with “less death”

Zycki11 wrote:
You still haven't answered the obvious question here... What do you do with the people on the boats? If you send them back, they come back...

You still haven't answered the obvious question here... What do you do with the people on the boats? If you send them back, they come back on another boat. You still don't address the issue. If you blow the fucker up, they think a little harder about it, because again. They only have so much manpower.  Not all of them are friendly farmers. 

soggy wrote:
Chances are if they are working for the cartel saying no would be far worse for them and there family. We could get rid of the production...

Chances are if they are working for the cartel saying no would be far worse for them and there family. 

We could get rid of the production facilities tomorrow if we actually wanted to do something with tangible benefits. 

Right, they continue to do it anyways.  Sending them back does nothing, I agree take out the facilities and cut off the head of the snake. I agree with the dog and pony show.   If deemed a terrorist organization, then treat it as such and take them out.  

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cheesehead420
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Manchester, CT, USA
12/4/2025 3:02pm
Zycki11 wrote:
You still haven't answered the obvious question here... What do you do with the people on the boats? If you send them back, they come back...

You still haven't answered the obvious question here... What do you do with the people on the boats? If you send them back, they come back on another boat. You still don't address the issue. If you blow the fucker up, they think a little harder about it, because again. They only have so much manpower.  Not all of them are friendly farmers. 

soggy wrote:
Chances are if they are working for the cartel saying no would be far worse for them and there family. We could get rid of the production...

Chances are if they are working for the cartel saying no would be far worse for them and there family. 

We could get rid of the production facilities tomorrow if we actually wanted to do something with tangible benefits. 

Zycki11 wrote:
Right, they continue to do it anyways.  Sending them back does nothing, I agree take out the facilities and cut off the head of the snake...

Right, they continue to do it anyways.  Sending them back does nothing, I agree take out the facilities and cut off the head of the snake. I agree with the dog and pony show.   If deemed a terrorist organization, then treat it as such and take them out.  

If you’re a United States citizen, the organization which represents the biggest threat to your life, freedom and wellbeing is the government of the United States and the institutions which give it power (multinational corporations & the Federal reserve etc.).

 The government of the United States and the institutions which uphold it are the No.1 terrorist organization in the world. We should clean up our own backyard first because all of these other “terrorist” organizations aren’t shit compared to the one we fund everyday with our labor and our consumerism. 

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3
ns503
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NS Toolies, CA
12/4/2025 3:19pm

So, who can answer this one - why are they blasting these things where they're blasting them, instead of waiting until they enter US waters to do something about them?

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2
cheesehead420
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12/4/2025 3:40pm
ns503 wrote:
So, who can answer this one - why are they blasting these things where they're blasting them, instead of waiting until they enter US waters to...

So, who can answer this one - why are they blasting these things where they're blasting them, instead of waiting until they enter US waters to do something about them?

It’s a rhetorical question I know, but why bother even asking? 

 It’s painfully obvious that this whole show is being staged in hopes that it will provoke an incident which will provide a catalyst for regime change. And then to install an American backed regime which is more friendly towards American businesses interests and the Zionist principles which guide it. You know kinda like every other war or incident we’ve started or been involved in for at least the last 100 years. 

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1
12/4/2025 3:58pm
Zycki11 wrote:
I do not want anyone blown up or killed, but I do believe in peace through strength. One of two things will happen and that is...

I do not want anyone blown up or killed, but I do believe in peace through strength. One of two things will happen and that is, Cartels don't give a shit and continue and try the same methods utilizing "threatened family men"(for the record I am of belief this is happening) which will end in the same exact fashion, the Cartel losing a ton of money and product. Or they get the picture and more than likely flood Canada with more drugs and try and get it across the northern border. 

First option sucks for human life no doubt about it.  But say it saves one extra shipment of fentanyl coming in the country because they know it is an automatic loss of product. That alone saves millions of lives. If you were to catch and release said criminals... what is to stop them from coming right back on the very next boat? Same exact scenario as Saving Private Ryan letting the german soldier go back to the front lines, just to kill more Americans.  Were all German soldiers bad men? No they were not. But it is not our responsibility to police that emotional barrier.  They are bringing the deadliest chemical in the world to our shores period.  Cartels are terrorist organizations.... Organization....key word.  Of course they are going to do illegal evil things like sending innocent men on boats. Perhaps that is a political stunt they are pulling so people like yourself get upset? But it doesn't help protect our country and the people inside of it.  That is the bottom line

El_Rayo wrote:
I was more upset by you advocating for the killing of innocent men who are driving boats of someone else’s narcotics, IF that was the case. ”First...


I was more upset by you advocating for the killing of innocent men who are driving boats of someone else’s narcotics, IF that was the case. 

”First option sucks for human life no doubt about it.  But say it saves one extra shipment of fentanyl coming in the country because they know it is an automatic loss of product. That alone saves millions of lives.” 

So you’re saying there’s no other possible way of stopping a boat coming to US waters? 

And if you bring up the point of it costing more resources, are you aware of how much a single strike, airline , or drone costs? Do you really think that’s the “cheaper alternative” then  just intercepting the boat when it gets here?

 

Zycki11 wrote:
Ok intercept the boat... what do you do with the people? You still haven't addressed the issue at hand. You send them back, they come right...

Ok intercept the boat... what do you do with the people? You still haven't addressed the issue at hand. You send them back, they come right back on the next one.  Your trying to break it all down to prove a specific point that it is un moral for us to blow up the boats right? Well, each one of those boats contains drugs that will kill millions of young kids, adolescents, and adults. So which is more moral? Boat operators, or millions of people? I personally prefer less death but that is just me.  

"Well, each one of those boats contains drugs that will kill millions of young kids, adolescents, and adults."

Millions, really?

image 2356
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1
APLMAN99
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12/4/2025 4:10pm
Zycki11 wrote:
So now we need to allow them to enter the us under custody and spend money to send them back? Remember, they are hauling DRUGS on...

So now we need to allow them to enter the us under custody and spend money to send them back? Remember, they are hauling DRUGS on a boat which is ILLEGAL. Despite the circumstance, the United States is saying "We will not allow this to flood in our country" Much like having stiff laws the citizens understand the juice may not be worth the squeeze.  The feelings of empathy have zero business in this situation whatsoever. Peace through STRENGTH.  That means, don't fuck with us.

El_Rayo wrote:
Wait….so let me get this straight.You’re saying even hypothetically,  if they were regular citizens held against their families will, by the cartel, to drive a boat...

Wait….so let me get this straight.


You’re saying even hypothetically,  if they were regular citizens held against their families will, by the cartel, to drive a boat to the U.S. , 


You still would want them to be blown up and killed? 

Zycki11 wrote:
I do not want anyone blown up or killed, but I do believe in peace through strength. One of two things will happen and that is...

I do not want anyone blown up or killed, but I do believe in peace through strength. One of two things will happen and that is, Cartels don't give a shit and continue and try the same methods utilizing "threatened family men"(for the record I am of belief this is happening) which will end in the same exact fashion, the Cartel losing a ton of money and product. Or they get the picture and more than likely flood Canada with more drugs and try and get it across the northern border. 

First option sucks for human life no doubt about it.  But say it saves one extra shipment of fentanyl coming in the country because they know it is an automatic loss of product. That alone saves millions of lives. If you were to catch and release said criminals... what is to stop them from coming right back on the very next boat? Same exact scenario as Saving Private Ryan letting the german soldier go back to the front lines, just to kill more Americans.  Were all German soldiers bad men? No they were not. But it is not our responsibility to police that emotional barrier.  They are bringing the deadliest chemical in the world to our shores period.  Cartels are terrorist organizations.... Organization....key word.  Of course they are going to do illegal evil things like sending innocent men on boats. Perhaps that is a political stunt they are pulling so people like yourself get upset? But it doesn't help protect our country and the people inside of it.  That is the bottom line

“But say it saves one extra shipment of fentanyl coming in the country because they know it is an automatic loss of product. That alone saves millions of lives.”

There are a total of just under 80K drug overdoses in the country during a year. At that rate it would take over 20 years to reach “millions” level, and that is if every single overdose death were from fentanyl. 

Fentanyl is a problem, but stretching the truth about it isn’t helpful. 

6
3
early
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12/4/2025 4:34pm

The problem with cocaine and most drugs nowadays is that theres always the chance that fentanyl is in it. Fentanyl and opiates are involved in 80% of overdose deaths that also involved cocaine. I really think that fentanyl was introduced to the drug supply to discourage the use of all drugs. The "war" on it is a smokescreen.

3
1
12/4/2025 5:00pm
El_Rayo wrote:
Wait….so let me get this straight.You’re saying even hypothetically,  if they were regular citizens held against their families will, by the cartel, to drive a boat...

Wait….so let me get this straight.


You’re saying even hypothetically,  if they were regular citizens held against their families will, by the cartel, to drive a boat to the U.S. , 


You still would want them to be blown up and killed? 

Zycki11 wrote:
I do not want anyone blown up or killed, but I do believe in peace through strength. One of two things will happen and that is...

I do not want anyone blown up or killed, but I do believe in peace through strength. One of two things will happen and that is, Cartels don't give a shit and continue and try the same methods utilizing "threatened family men"(for the record I am of belief this is happening) which will end in the same exact fashion, the Cartel losing a ton of money and product. Or they get the picture and more than likely flood Canada with more drugs and try and get it across the northern border. 

First option sucks for human life no doubt about it.  But say it saves one extra shipment of fentanyl coming in the country because they know it is an automatic loss of product. That alone saves millions of lives. If you were to catch and release said criminals... what is to stop them from coming right back on the very next boat? Same exact scenario as Saving Private Ryan letting the german soldier go back to the front lines, just to kill more Americans.  Were all German soldiers bad men? No they were not. But it is not our responsibility to police that emotional barrier.  They are bringing the deadliest chemical in the world to our shores period.  Cartels are terrorist organizations.... Organization....key word.  Of course they are going to do illegal evil things like sending innocent men on boats. Perhaps that is a political stunt they are pulling so people like yourself get upset? But it doesn't help protect our country and the people inside of it.  That is the bottom line

APLMAN99 wrote:
“But say it saves one extra shipment of fentanyl coming in the country because they know it is an automatic loss of product. That alone saves...

“But say it saves one extra shipment of fentanyl coming in the country because they know it is an automatic loss of product. That alone saves millions of lives.”

There are a total of just under 80K drug overdoses in the country during a year. At that rate it would take over 20 years to reach “millions” level, and that is if every single overdose death were from fentanyl. 

Fentanyl is a problem, but stretching the truth about it isn’t helpful. 

Are there only 40,110,988 left in the US?

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3
12/4/2025 7:15pm

It's pretty apparent we have some drug production/transpertation/distribution/sales experts here. That being said, I for one am glad they are doing something significant. Are there other things that can and should be done? For sure, but why complain so much that SOMETHING is being done? The last administration did virtually zero. Now doing something is never good enough for the people that were perfectly fine with doing nothing. SMH

3
13
LoudLove
Posts
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Location
USA
12/4/2025 7:22pm
ToolMaker wrote:
It's pretty apparent we have some drug production/transpertation/distribution/sales experts here. That being said, I for one am glad they are doing something significant. Are there other...

It's pretty apparent we have some drug production/transpertation/distribution/sales experts here. That being said, I for one am glad they are doing something significant. Are there other things that can and should be done? For sure, but why complain so much that SOMETHING is being done? The last administration did virtually zero. Now doing something is never good enough for the people that were perfectly fine with doing nothing. SMH

It’s not significant. In fact it borders on insignificant. 

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