Settle this Debate about factory practice bikes

Cory976
Posts
279
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Littleton, CO, USA
Edited Date/Time 1/27/2012 2:11am
My friend and I have a debate going on about factory riders and their practice bikes.

I say that the riders "Practice" bike that is sent home with him during the week is set up exactly like his "Race" bike is with all the bells and whistles that come on a full blown factory bike. ( IE: Works Cylinders, Titanium nuts and bolts, and all the components that go into both works suspension and factory motors.)

He says that the riders "Practice" bike that is sent home with him during the week is bone stock with the execption of his suspension and ergonomic set-up that mimics his "Race" bike, but as far as the motor he says: "Yeah, it's modified, but it's not exactly like their race motors and they don't have the titanium nuts and bolts, etc.

Who is either correct. or closer to being right on this subject.

I say its about 80%-90% the same as their race bike,

He says its about 50% of what they race on the weekends.
|
WSR
Posts
1528
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
USA
11/13/2010 4:10am
I think your friend is more correct. Sorry.
Jake-247
Posts
948
Joined
10/21/2009
Location
Queensland, AU
11/13/2010 4:18am
WSR wrote:
I think your friend is more correct. Sorry.
X2.
liter98
Posts
60
Joined
3/27/2010
Location
Faahmington, ME, USA
11/13/2010 4:44am
You think Dungey or villipoto practice on bikes that are not equal to their race bikes?........
I doubt it
Mikep147
Posts
268
Joined
11/9/2010
Location
Prestonsburg, KY, USA
11/13/2010 5:14am
I don't know about in this day and time but i remember back in RC days with kawi i remember reading an early Transworld article i think with his wrench Chad Watts and he was quoted as saying all of Rickys practice bikes had to be disassembled and the frames and a few other parts were destroyed/crushed to keep them from getting in the wrong hands due to them being one off trick parts from Kawi. Also i remember seeing the famous cage inside of Hondas race shop that has Cylinders and forks all the way back from the days of O'mara and RJ so who knows each factory probably does it different.I follow Broc Tickle on twitter and every day before he goes riding he always tweets hes getting ready to go by the PC shop and pick up his bike so maybe the Cali guys have to meet with the factorys to get there bikes on test/practice days.East coast guys unsure? Im sure a guy like RC had about any type of practice bike at his side he wanted Smile )

The Shop

Devil1nNj
Posts
960
Joined
11/12/2006
Location
Hewitt, NJ, USA
11/13/2010 6:10am
Good topic. I have wondered about this for a while.

Remember Alessi and the rear shock incident?
I do remember reading somewhere that the practice bikes were not as trick as factory, and was always curious why that would be - other than parts getting in the wrong hands, obviously.

With all the testing, and set up they do it seems counter productive to practice on something that is not exactly like you set it up for racing. Esp with the suspension.
RaceFace
Posts
1608
Joined
8/15/2010
Location
USA
11/13/2010 6:12am
I think it may be even less than your friends 50% figure. The practice bikes are much more stock than the race bikes but do have to be set up fairly similarly so that there isn't a big difference between the two. I saw an article concerning RCs ranch and there was a pile of old frames and stuff outside like a good old southerner would have. These were remnants of practice bikes. They said he goes through a something like 4 bikes completely during one series....as in used up and garbage. I've been riding with Doug Henry when he was with Honda and his bikes were pretty much stock, except for the suspension and motor work. They can't have these guys using up $100,000 works bikes every few weeks. Testing of course is different than practice. They test setup and parts for the races. So test bikes are the race bikes.
Devil1nNj
Posts
960
Joined
11/12/2006
Location
Hewitt, NJ, USA
11/13/2010 6:19am
RaceFace wrote:
I think it may be even less than your friends 50% figure. The practice bikes are much more stock than the race bikes but do have...
I think it may be even less than your friends 50% figure. The practice bikes are much more stock than the race bikes but do have to be set up fairly similarly so that there isn't a big difference between the two. I saw an article concerning RCs ranch and there was a pile of old frames and stuff outside like a good old southerner would have. These were remnants of practice bikes. They said he goes through a something like 4 bikes completely during one series....as in used up and garbage. I've been riding with Doug Henry when he was with Honda and his bikes were pretty much stock, except for the suspension and motor work. They can't have these guys using up $100,000 works bikes every few weeks. Testing of course is different than practice. They test setup and parts for the races. So test bikes are the race bikes.
That makes sense. As long as power and suspension are close, the amount of laps these guys do in a week would eat bikes.

RV's 5 minutes mentioned rumors of him doing 50 lap motos. lol

I was under the impression though that the suspension was where most of the cost is. I can't remember the numbers but wasn't Stewarts suspension a few years back some astronomical amount of money?
SwapperMX
Posts
2153
Joined
6/16/2010
Location
AU
11/13/2010 6:19am Edited Date/Time 11/13/2010 6:21am
I will say that in this day and age, and level of professionalism, and knowing riders that have ridden for smaller privateer teams, as well as factory teams, that the race bikes are very very close to the practice bikes. They have to be, or the rider is wasting their time practicing through the week, as well as being out of touch set up wise with the bike.
11/13/2010 7:12am
I believe its up to the team and racer. Some ride stockers with mod's to suspension and a pipe, while others want a full race bike. The rub is can a full race bike can it take all the practice hours without the mechanic taking it down as regular as a full race bike?
SwapperMX
Posts
2153
Joined
6/16/2010
Location
AU
11/13/2010 7:16am
I believe its up to the team and racer. Some ride stockers with mod's to suspension and a pipe, while others want a full race bike...
I believe its up to the team and racer. Some ride stockers with mod's to suspension and a pipe, while others want a full race bike. The rub is can a full race bike can it take all the practice hours without the mechanic taking it down as regular as a full race bike?
Yeah, thats the thing, budget. Like anything. It is a full time job maintaining these bikes, both practice and race bikes. Gotta have the money to do it, but most of the teams want to win, and do everything in their power to achieve this !!
mx295
Posts
4296
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Quartz Hill, CA, USA
11/13/2010 7:27am
I had a Factory team riders practice bike. It had all the bolt on stuff and suspension. But NO motor or tranny mods.
RaceFace
Posts
1608
Joined
8/15/2010
Location
USA
11/13/2010 7:28am
SwapperMX wrote:
I will say that in this day and age, and level of professionalism, and knowing riders that have ridden for smaller privateer teams, as well as...
I will say that in this day and age, and level of professionalism, and knowing riders that have ridden for smaller privateer teams, as well as factory teams, that the race bikes are very very close to the practice bikes. They have to be, or the rider is wasting their time practicing through the week, as well as being out of touch set up wise with the bike.
Setup is not the same as parts. There is no need to have all the titanium doodads and handmade parts on a practice bike. Not to mention the goal of practice isn't always the same for everyone. They say Pourcel regularly rides the 450 practicing for the 250 class. I remember Bailey used to practice on a 125 to make him more agressive while he was riding in the 250 class. So the idea that you need to practice on the identical bike or you are wasting your time does not apply to everyone. The main goal of "practice" is to build speed and stamina. So if that is happening, it certainly isn't a waste of time.
Cory976
Posts
279
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Littleton, CO, USA
11/13/2010 7:30am
HMMMM! Maybe some factory mechanic can chime in on this topic?
Cory976
Posts
279
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Littleton, CO, USA
11/13/2010 7:30am
HMMMM! Maybe some factory mechanic can chime in on this topic?
mom241
Posts
992
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Shawnee, OK, USA
11/13/2010 7:37am
You're both right. From my experience, it's up to the team how close to a race bike the practice bike is.
11/13/2010 8:38am
mom241 wrote:
You're both right. From my experience, it's up to the team how close to a race bike the practice bike is.
we have a winner... and from a source that would know first hand, Trey's mom

Hi! by the way

little story from back in 1994. Robbie Reynard gets signed to factory Kawi in may of 93. Goes to cali, rides his full on factory scoot. gets hurt at first SX. comes home. gets healed up, they send out 2 practice bikes. Suspension was modified stock units, a handful of parts that were used for ergo's, stock motor with a pipe. They think, hey hes only coming back for the last few nats, no big deal.

Oct of 93, goes to cali for 2 months. they test and test and test his factory 1994 kx125. he comes home for xmas. still has his 1994 practice bikes and they send home a handful of ergo parts. Problem is, his factory bike is so much better than his practice bikes, its not even the same animal. the fit is, but the suspension, motor, they are so different you cant even call it the same brand of bike. And the war begins. They asked for the ignition, cylinder, head, and carb from his factory bike, and a set of the offset head bearings. Got told no. They didnt want the trick tranny, or the factory suspension, they understood that the suspension on these bikes is so good because of the tight tolerances and the constant rebuild (factory forks wear FAST due to tight tolerances)... but at least let us make our practice bike go as fast as his race bike and turn like it. Nope. cant let those out of the shop. He could goto cali and ride it all day, just couldnt bring it home.

so..... just a good story about it imo.

side note, they did have the full on bike 1 weekend. the rig was in dallas, a new part came over from japan, they had to test it, only place to do that was at home. a sometimes poster on here got to ride it, momma trey knows him i think Mike Ollison, lets just say it was holy shit fast and the suspension... omg.
avidchimp
Posts
5869
Joined
7/9/2008
Location
EGL, MN, USA
11/13/2010 8:44am
mom241 wrote:
You're both right. From my experience, it's up to the team how close to a race bike the practice bike is.
we have a winner... and from a source that would know first hand, Trey's mom Hi! by the way little story from back in 1994. Robbie...
we have a winner... and from a source that would know first hand, Trey's mom

Hi! by the way

little story from back in 1994. Robbie Reynard gets signed to factory Kawi in may of 93. Goes to cali, rides his full on factory scoot. gets hurt at first SX. comes home. gets healed up, they send out 2 practice bikes. Suspension was modified stock units, a handful of parts that were used for ergo's, stock motor with a pipe. They think, hey hes only coming back for the last few nats, no big deal.

Oct of 93, goes to cali for 2 months. they test and test and test his factory 1994 kx125. he comes home for xmas. still has his 1994 practice bikes and they send home a handful of ergo parts. Problem is, his factory bike is so much better than his practice bikes, its not even the same animal. the fit is, but the suspension, motor, they are so different you cant even call it the same brand of bike. And the war begins. They asked for the ignition, cylinder, head, and carb from his factory bike, and a set of the offset head bearings. Got told no. They didnt want the trick tranny, or the factory suspension, they understood that the suspension on these bikes is so good because of the tight tolerances and the constant rebuild (factory forks wear FAST due to tight tolerances)... but at least let us make our practice bike go as fast as his race bike and turn like it. Nope. cant let those out of the shop. He could goto cali and ride it all day, just couldnt bring it home.

so..... just a good story about it imo.

side note, they did have the full on bike 1 weekend. the rig was in dallas, a new part came over from japan, they had to test it, only place to do that was at home. a sometimes poster on here got to ride it, momma trey knows him i think Mike Ollison, lets just say it was holy shit fast and the suspension... omg.
What you didn't mention is that when Kawi wouldn't send those parts Reynard Sr. built a motor for Robbie that was so fast Mitch wanted to get his hands on it and Robert wouldn't give it up. Boy did that start a whole shitstorm between the two parties.
Towelie
Posts
397
Joined
9/10/2010
Location
Denver, CO, USA
11/13/2010 9:12am
There was nothing stock about Shorts bike when he was practicing at the Fishers here before MXdN. But it also wasnt his race bike either
Matthes
Posts
2755
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
USA
11/13/2010 9:16am
There's different ways to skin this cat, When I was at Yamaha each rider had a practice bike that was identical to his race bike except for the mag wheels and titanium. If you were so inclined, you could put old Ti on it but then you would have to spend hours rummaging through the old bolts and making sure you matched everything up.

There was also a test bike that was identical to the race bike and had everything on it. If we were "testing" that is what we used.

However Ferry's practice bikes at Kawi had everything the race one did. It was a identical and knowing him, he would insist on everything inside the motor to be identical also.

Lesser teams probably vary according to budget and I've seen guys have suspension and a bone stock motor with a pipe on some lower-level teams.
Sunhouse
Posts
3674
Joined
3/2/2009
Location
NO
11/13/2010 9:22am
Factory riders today have a race bike mechanic and a practice bike mechanic.
I think, at least when the economy was good (04-07ish) the teams would give the riders the best practice bikes possible to make them coomfortable with what they had to race. PRevents injuries too. Today in the AMA I wouldn´t know. With Zookie struggeling etc I just don´t see how they can afford it. However, with the current SX and MX champ on board they have to do something right.....? Good topic!
11/13/2010 9:24am
I can't say 100% about todays riders, but Donnie Hansen had a full blown factory bikes to practice on while some of Omaras 125 were production with factory suspension but his 250s were full factory.

Barnett practiced on production bikes because he went through 125s like crazy and Suzuki could'nt keep up with parts. From 84 on all Suzuki riders had production pratice bikes because of budget.

Its like mom says, depends on the team and the rider. I do know that Dungey has full race bikes.
11/13/2010 9:24am
Does anyone have the old photo from RC's house with the dead-bike pile? I remember seeing it numerous times over the years...

A transcript of that article would be great!
liter98
Posts
60
Joined
3/27/2010
Location
Faahmington, ME, USA
11/13/2010 10:01am
Does anyone have the old photo from RC's house with the dead-bike pile? I remember seeing it numerous times over the years... A transcript of that...
Does anyone have the old photo from RC's house with the dead-bike pile? I remember seeing it numerous times over the years...

A transcript of that article would be great!
X2
RaceFace
Posts
1608
Joined
8/15/2010
Location
USA
11/13/2010 10:21am
Matthes wrote:
There's different ways to skin this cat, When I was at Yamaha each rider had a practice bike that was identical to his race bike except...
There's different ways to skin this cat, When I was at Yamaha each rider had a practice bike that was identical to his race bike except for the mag wheels and titanium. If you were so inclined, you could put old Ti on it but then you would have to spend hours rummaging through the old bolts and making sure you matched everything up.

There was also a test bike that was identical to the race bike and had everything on it. If we were "testing" that is what we used.

However Ferry's practice bikes at Kawi had everything the race one did. It was a identical and knowing him, he would insist on everything inside the motor to be identical also.

Lesser teams probably vary according to budget and I've seen guys have suspension and a bone stock motor with a pipe on some lower-level teams.
So how many bikes would Timmy go through in a year? It would be cool if "someone" with an inside line did an expose on this subject.....hmmmmmm, who has the ability to do that for say.....TWMX? It would be cool to know how the different teams handle this same scenario, how many bikes they go through, etc.
DL
Posts
2627
Joined
8/20/2006
Location
Menifee, CA, USA
11/13/2010 10:26am Edited Date/Time 11/13/2010 10:26am
Does anyone have the old photo from RC's house with the dead-bike pile? I remember seeing it numerous times over the years... A transcript of that...
Does anyone have the old photo from RC's house with the dead-bike pile? I remember seeing it numerous times over the years...

A transcript of that article would be great!
liter98 wrote:
X2
Mark Barnett had a dead-bike pile too...... saw pictures or video of it.....
11/13/2010 10:38am Edited Date/Time 11/13/2010 10:48am
mom241 wrote:
You're both right. From my experience, it's up to the team how close to a race bike the practice bike is.
we have a winner... and from a source that would know first hand, Trey's mom Hi! by the way little story from back in 1994. Robbie...
we have a winner... and from a source that would know first hand, Trey's mom

Hi! by the way

little story from back in 1994. Robbie Reynard gets signed to factory Kawi in may of 93. Goes to cali, rides his full on factory scoot. gets hurt at first SX. comes home. gets healed up, they send out 2 practice bikes. Suspension was modified stock units, a handful of parts that were used for ergo's, stock motor with a pipe. They think, hey hes only coming back for the last few nats, no big deal.

Oct of 93, goes to cali for 2 months. they test and test and test his factory 1994 kx125. he comes home for xmas. still has his 1994 practice bikes and they send home a handful of ergo parts. Problem is, his factory bike is so much better than his practice bikes, its not even the same animal. the fit is, but the suspension, motor, they are so different you cant even call it the same brand of bike. And the war begins. They asked for the ignition, cylinder, head, and carb from his factory bike, and a set of the offset head bearings. Got told no. They didnt want the trick tranny, or the factory suspension, they understood that the suspension on these bikes is so good because of the tight tolerances and the constant rebuild (factory forks wear FAST due to tight tolerances)... but at least let us make our practice bike go as fast as his race bike and turn like it. Nope. cant let those out of the shop. He could goto cali and ride it all day, just couldnt bring it home.

so..... just a good story about it imo.

side note, they did have the full on bike 1 weekend. the rig was in dallas, a new part came over from japan, they had to test it, only place to do that was at home. a sometimes poster on here got to ride it, momma trey knows him i think Mike Ollison, lets just say it was holy shit fast and the suspension... omg.
avidchimp wrote:
What you didn't mention is that when Kawi wouldn't send those parts Reynard Sr. built a motor for Robbie that was so fast Mitch wanted to...
What you didn't mention is that when Kawi wouldn't send those parts Reynard Sr. built a motor for Robbie that was so fast Mitch wanted to get his hands on it and Robert wouldn't give it up. Boy did that start a whole shitstorm between the two parties.
that wasnt the kawi, that was the zuke! and that is a LEGENDARY story! and there are still...feelings... between a few people over that. not at mitch, but... lets just leave that dog to sleep.
Chris_ONeal
Posts
1273
Joined
5/14/2009
Location
Essex, CT, USA
11/13/2010 11:12am
When I was down at Nico Izzi's in Georgia and he rode for factory suzuki, his practice bike was a race bike. It had everything. He was not allowed to ride it over 15 hours and UPS was constantly dropping motors off in a crate to swap out. He had a practice bike mechanic.
Cory976
Posts
279
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Littleton, CO, USA
11/13/2010 12:18pm
Wow! Looks like it varies as the years go by , or the economy, or team budgets. Cool!
11/13/2010 12:41pm
Back in the day Jimmy Winert used a clapped out POS to practice on thinking if he could learn to go fast on it he would fly on his "Works" bike. I would think that if the racer could get used to more of a stock bike he could get many more hours on it. More than several of the guys I worked for would go thru 2 motors a week if they only could get 15 hours before replacing it.
avidchimp
Posts
5869
Joined
7/9/2008
Location
EGL, MN, USA
11/13/2010 2:21pm
we have a winner... and from a source that would know first hand, Trey's mom Hi! by the way little story from back in 1994. Robbie...
we have a winner... and from a source that would know first hand, Trey's mom

Hi! by the way

little story from back in 1994. Robbie Reynard gets signed to factory Kawi in may of 93. Goes to cali, rides his full on factory scoot. gets hurt at first SX. comes home. gets healed up, they send out 2 practice bikes. Suspension was modified stock units, a handful of parts that were used for ergo's, stock motor with a pipe. They think, hey hes only coming back for the last few nats, no big deal.

Oct of 93, goes to cali for 2 months. they test and test and test his factory 1994 kx125. he comes home for xmas. still has his 1994 practice bikes and they send home a handful of ergo parts. Problem is, his factory bike is so much better than his practice bikes, its not even the same animal. the fit is, but the suspension, motor, they are so different you cant even call it the same brand of bike. And the war begins. They asked for the ignition, cylinder, head, and carb from his factory bike, and a set of the offset head bearings. Got told no. They didnt want the trick tranny, or the factory suspension, they understood that the suspension on these bikes is so good because of the tight tolerances and the constant rebuild (factory forks wear FAST due to tight tolerances)... but at least let us make our practice bike go as fast as his race bike and turn like it. Nope. cant let those out of the shop. He could goto cali and ride it all day, just couldnt bring it home.

so..... just a good story about it imo.

side note, they did have the full on bike 1 weekend. the rig was in dallas, a new part came over from japan, they had to test it, only place to do that was at home. a sometimes poster on here got to ride it, momma trey knows him i think Mike Ollison, lets just say it was holy shit fast and the suspension... omg.
avidchimp wrote:
What you didn't mention is that when Kawi wouldn't send those parts Reynard Sr. built a motor for Robbie that was so fast Mitch wanted to...
What you didn't mention is that when Kawi wouldn't send those parts Reynard Sr. built a motor for Robbie that was so fast Mitch wanted to get his hands on it and Robert wouldn't give it up. Boy did that start a whole shitstorm between the two parties.
that wasnt the kawi, that was the zuke! and that is a LEGENDARY story! and there are still...feelings... between a few people over that. not at...
that wasnt the kawi, that was the zuke! and that is a LEGENDARY story! and there are still...feelings... between a few people over that. not at mitch, but... lets just leave that dog to sleep.
I thought I had mixed up my brands. I love that story...

Post a reply to: Settle this Debate about factory practice bikes

The Latest