The cracks are already starting to show and have been for some time. Our national and cultural divide is worse than its ever been and now medical divide is really starting to show now with the West Coast and Northeast Health Alliances. Have we grown too far apart and its only a matter of time? 10 years?
I'm seeing more and more that "the other side can't be reasoned with." This is a very right leaning board but I also spend some time on a music centered forum that is very left leaning and I feel like these two aren't even living in the same world. Different news, article's, reference points and "facts." AI is making it easier to bend the things we see online.
IDK just been thing about this too much this week. Going for a woods ride in a few hours should clear my head.
I would say yes, it's going to get worse. I do not think this is a right leaning board at all anymore, it's been infested with "those who can't be reasoned with" because they simply hate one man and refuse to look at what his side stands for. They forget we only have a couple choices for POTUS, and we have to pick the best option, even if that means best of the worst for some people. There are very few things that the other side could reasonably be against, and I'm sure many right leaning people might understand or agree with (like abortion, or gay marriage). Yet there are people here who live their sad lives bashing one man they don't like, instead of looking at the big picture.
When you are someone who can't get past one person you don't like and your daily goals in life is to bash him, and and then side with a group who wants to destroy our Country (cities, values, borders, safety, etc) then it lands us where we are. One side wants to get back to our core values and one side wants destruction, DEI, mutilation of kids, 3rd bathrooms, and a lot of other things that aren't sustainable like open borders and free handouts to illegals.
The reasonable crowd cannot believe how someone could side with garbage like that for simply hating on one man. And no, not everyone loves him who supports him, and not everyone loves everything he does, but if you look at the big picture then the choice should be obvious to any hard working family oriented American.
If you really hate the man that it consumes all of your daily life, start looking for someone better to groom for the next term who has American values and is more respectable. Until then, we have what we have and bashing him only creates more division.
It's getting weird for sure.
"IDK just been thing about this too much this week. Going for a woods ride in a few hours should clear my head"
Would love to to go burn some pre-mix with you today. Have a blast, and nail a section for me...
Low and behold, the first response to your post 100% confirms what you said. 🤦♂️
So why don't you post your thoughts then, instead of avoiding a conversation?
The Shop
Free shipping: VITALMX
Luxon 4-Post Bar Mounts
$189.95 - $239.95
DeCal Works Huge Plastic Inventory of UFO and Polisport kits.
Hmmm... I wonder if USA balkanizes what part will become the American Albania? 🤔 preferanbly some state with mountains and lot of stolen german cars (bonus points for original german licence plates on cars).
This is a right leaning board, no question. There are really not that many left/Dem supporters here. But the majority can't see that. They automatically assume somone saying something critical of someone on their side is defacto supportive of the other. When in fact, it is people in the middle, who have neither side as their side and have been critical of each at one time or the other. Someone should throw up a post supporting a prominent Dem to check that out, and see how many replies of support they get. Would like to see that. As opposed to all the DT echo chamber replies so common here.
All the right leaners are getting banned and clicked so there aren't too many around right now. The forum has definitely gone left with a few who fight for good ole American values. It appears the problem is getting hung up with an individual as you just did, instead of looking at the movement behind the individual. I think most are completely open to a rational discussion, as I am. So people must forget about specific individuals they hate and focus on the values of the administration, because we are never going to find a perfect individual that makes everyone happy, on either side.
So let's do just that. What is it about the following that you or anyone else doesn't like that this administration stands for?
Securing borders
Restoring Law and Order
Deporting illegals who are flooding our systems and costing billions in tax dollars
Strengthen military and national security
Draining the swamp and getting rid of corruption (DOGE)
American Energy Independence
Traditional family values
America first with funding and trade policy
Excellent question and Im eager and curious to hear the response. However, I have a feeling thats only a pipe dream and wont get a straight answer.
There is nothing wrong with most or all of it. But things are getting conflagrated along the way. Like, for a few, legals being rounded up along with illegals. DOGE throwing babies out with bathwater and having to rehire a lot of those they turfed. And not really saving a whole lot in the end compared to what was previously advertised. Deploying supposedly strengthened militaries to cities - was that part of the promises? For practice, even? Getting rid of corruption and draining the swamp? That's pretty rich with this administration - Bondi refuses to answer the $50,000 question (and others), should have been an easy answer for an AG. And America first policies when done to a certain degree results in alienation and increased costs for ordinary Americans.
Also, Biden was not fit, Harris was a poor replacement and that whole thing couldnt have been more of a circus. And they continue to do a piss poor job over there of even developing a pro-them message or platform, let alone delivering it. All they have is anti. Although, there is fair amount of stuff happening to be anti messaging about. If they didn't keep getting fed that stuff by some of the words and actions of the current admin, they'd be totally cooked.
We all want the same things.
Government out of pockets, no wars to send our children too, and an affordable way of life. It can be done but the 2 sides of Government are so preoccupied with thier power to give a crap. The use things like racism, gender equality and class equality and other forms of social issues that really are not even there to keep our anger focused on that and not the fact that we are all having a very hard time getting ahead. Then you have the media and any idiot on a podcast pumping thier agenda all day long on your phone.
Go out in the world and hold the door for someone and see the response you get. Black, white, Latino, Asian, woman, man, gay, trans......they will all say thank you.
Maybe its just my situation but with each president/administration, left or right i find it harder and harder to save a dollar and im not so sure they are not all in it together.
With all due respect, I am right leaning but not MAGA. Which should be acceptable but has not been popular on vital…..or thanksgiving dinner for that matter 🙂
Border and immigration are one of the areas where I'm farther right than other areas so I don't have a problem with tightening the border and being stricter on immigration enforcement. I believe that the last 40 years of loose border policy by both parties was driven by business interest to provide cheap labor. Having said that the new ICE tactics I can't get behind for the most part. Masked guys with no identification jumping out of unmarked vehicles is not the way law enforcement should be done in this country, we're better than that, that's what happens in shit hole countries.
Restoring law and order, that's debatable. The left defund the police slogan of 2020 was the stupidest shit I've ever heard. Trends in crime have been pretty much on par with where they were headed at the end of bidens term, I don't think you can take a victory lap on this at the moment.
Strengthen military and national security is also debateable. We've pissed off most of our alies and if the shit hits the fan I'd rather go into with NATO and our other historic allies than Qatar. Trumps little weekend with Putin with no results made the Donald and the USA look like fucking sissies.
Draining the swamp and getting rid of corruption. Give me a break. Sure doge cut some bs programs but the government is currently spending more money in 2025 than in 2024. The tariff revenue is being treated as a slush fund for pet projects and favors, currently it's going to pay soybean farmers after China stopped buying, that's called redistribution of wealth and communism not capitalism. Maybe you don't know about trumps crypto scams and other kickbacks and his top officers are alot of things but not corrupt isn't one of them.
American energy independence is on trend with where it has been since covid and the cancellation of a bunch of solar projects is likely to put us in a worse situation. Here's some data on US oil and gas production, it has jumped since trump it's been on the same trajectory as it was during bidens term.
Now China is putting strict export controls on battery materials and rare earth metals before we have any of those industries up and running domestically or with any substitute supply chains. Like it or not batteries and electric motors are a huge deal and part of the energy equation of the 21st century and now any is innovation in that field is fucked.
Traditional family values? What does that even mean, how are you measuring that? Is this just about gays and transl?
America first funding and trade policy. Working in manufacturing I can tell you that the tariffs are not making it easier to manufacture things here, quite the opposite. Tariffs are just a tax and if you thing other countries are paying the tariffs you have a low IQ. Nothing is better economically than it was before January of this year.
Agreed 100% with everything said.
Only speaking to one point here... but the unmarked, mask, no ID stuff is just how its done with any high end law enforcement . Call it what you will, swat, emergency response team exc. You're probably saying such and such police department as you enter, but you sure as shit aren't saying "I'm john smith badge number whatever"
Sorry BDB, but I disagree that most folks on either side of the coin are willing to sit down and have a rational conversation. In fact, I would say that is the crux of the problem in the USA, NOBODY is willing to have a rational conversation.
This shit is damn near comical at this point. He said she said. Fuck the left, fuck the right. I'm right and you're wrong. The entire problem with this nation is SELFISHNESS! No one gives two shits about anything but what can better themselves. Life isn't valuable anymore. 2 parent households are so far in the past it's ridiculous. No one knows their neighbors. The US is now the ME nation. If it doesn't directly improve my life then it's wrong. Companies are forced to hire people based on everything but their experience and skill set. We are slowly collapsing, and it's sad. At 44 it'll affect me but it's my kids, and if they have kids, their kids that I worry about. Gonna be a rough world to live in in 20 years I suspect.
Balkanize? Isn’t that how tires are made? No?
I thought tires were made by Mr.Spock.
Pit Row
I agree with you on some of this, but a couple things:
As for legals being rounded up with illegals, unfortunately this is going to happen, especially if legals run when they see ICE. The US is never going to deport legal US citizens, but the legals definitely might get caught up in a raid if they are around other illegals. So the solution is, simply don't run away when ICE shows up if you are legal, and if you don't run and are still wrangled up, simply show them proper the paperwork/ID when you are questioned and you will be on your way. No harm no foul. This is part of the process of wrangling up and deporting illegals. It's not like they can say, "hey, all illegals raise your hands" and then gather them all up. Instead, they have to chase them down and things get hostile when people run from the law. There is no civil way of doing this when ICE is being attacked with rocks, heavy protest, etc. I'm very intertwined with the latino community (family/employees), and all my latino peeps have zero concerns about being caught in a raid or even worse deported. In fact some of them are happy to see this because they had to wait in the "long line" and follow the legal process to get into our Country. These are hard working tax paying latinos, not the entitled protesters you see on the streets.
DOGE - I understand it seems frustrating that they cast a big net and layoff a bunch of people they need to rehire. Unfortuntately again, this is how things are done in the corporate world and is the quickest way to get things done. Not saying I agree with it, but this is how any big administration would handle it. You make big cuts, and then do the damage control later when you find out what is essential to bring back. The point is, we are headed in the right direction with getting rid of tons of corruption/waste of our tax dollars.
Deploying military to cities - this happens because of the unrest or refusal to allow the feds to do their jobs safely. If you don't live in a big city you won't understand why this is necessary, but it is in some cases, and it's effective to clean up the streets and squash the violent protesters and crime.
The $50,000 question is what? The Epstien files? There is a lot of speculation here if this is what you are talking about. And the speculation is in reference to a "client list" or "activity log" that exists somewhere. I don't believe one has ever been identified? I don't believe everyone is sick enough to want to play with children and I think that would've most likely been a sick few people with Epstein and his inner circle. Just because you were hanging with Epstein doesn't necessarily mean you were molesting kids. I do believe however that these politicians could have been hanging with Epstein and banging adult prostitutes, but it's likely no one will ever know. I have a feeling the list of politicians who hung out with Epstein is so long that neither side will ever spill the beans. So until then, all this talk about certain people being pedophiles is pure speculation.
America first - unfortunately sometimes things have to get worse before they get better, and there can be short term expense that will offer long term gains. This is what is happening now, and things could get uglier before they get better. But keep in mind it's just begun and things don't happen over night. There will be a net gain to all of this in the end, it will just take some time.
Early,
You make some decent talking points, but when you talk about IQ you should realize things don't happen overnight when you say things like "no better than January". I hope you would know it takes years sometimes to turn shit around, not 8 months. Someone with a low IQ would think it's logical to measure massive metrics like changes in the economy/crime etc in a matter of months, so I would not expect that from you. Let's check back in a couple years and see how we are doing bud, things have just begun and it takes years to turn the ship around. I typed some other things above that relate to some of your post, but bottom line is it seems we are going in a better direction with the list above like "doge cut some bs programs". Restoring law and order is not debatable. The previous administration promotes it where I live, if you aren't here to witness it you won't see it on the evening news in your area. See what order he brought to DC with the national guard.
Tariffs - I'm not going to argue because people are set in their opinions on this. I have a different opinion, which is in the long run it will be a net gain and that means right now we will have to pay up front with some short term pain. I own multiple businesses so I understand both sides, but I'm in the camp of no pain no gain on this front. People will always complain about paying more now, even if it means having a better position in the future. This one is TBD but again it needs a couple years to mature.
Traditional family values - Science based for the sexes - M/F. I'm fine with gays, or should I say traditional gays. I'm for letting them get married or whatever they want to do as I have a couple gay friends and they can love whomever they want. But for all this new 3rd bathroom, furry, "I Identify as", his/her/them, "I need a litter box", is all bullshit and a complete cry for attention. So much that my gay friends are ashamed of it all because it has given gays a poor reputation. As far as Trans, if you want to dress up as the other sex fine, do it behind your closed doors but don't expect any of our tax dollars to teach this in schools, or allow kids to change their sex because they don't fit in, or allow boys to play on girls teams, etc. Not one cent of our tax dollars should be allocated to this garbage, but I'm fine with supporting what I call "traditional" gays.
I guess the question is what is your definition of MAGA? I support the bullet points listed above, so does that make me MAGA? Do you support those bullet points?
do you want to flesh out any of these arguments and discuss a specific topic?
This thread proves the point about dialogue. I gave a brief explanation on the lack of ID's , face coverings, got nobody who wanted to discuss it, yet there's two dislikes.
I didn’t downvote it because I generally don’t have an issue with what ICE is doing. That said, “it’s just how these operations are done” isn’t a strong argument in favor of it. That’s not to say there’s any merit to the argument against it.
The $50,000 is the Homan bribe. Nothing to do with Epstein.
Following are differences I see between MAGA and Republicans (my definition of republicans is 2008 Bush era, just as reference);
Securing borders - no differences.
Restoring Law and Order - MAGA believes in federal tax dollars being spent on policing. They also believe in federalizing the national guard. Republicans historically see this as a state issue and would not bring in national guard without a governors approval. My view, best way to fight crime is at local level. If you voted to defund the police, then you need to correct that in your local elections.
Deporting illegals who are flooding our systems and costing billions in tax dollars - MAGA is willing to deport people without due process. Republicans would not. My view, the asylum law needs a closer look. People here illegally need to be removed but we also need temporary workers and H1-B’s cause we don’t have the workforce. Immigration is good overall.
Strengthen military and national security - MAGA believes in isolating USA from its allies. An example is economic policies implemented on India forcing them to partner with China. Huge loss in my opinion. Republicans agree with military spending and strengthening NATO and allies. My personal view is we need to police less in the world and also reduce spending so I’m mixed in views.
Draining the swamp and getting rid of corruption (DOGE) - MAGA believes this is an executive branch authority. Republicans believe this is a legislative branch decision with executive approval, I’m 100% we need to make tough decisions to reduce budget, but I believe congress needs to do this otherwise I lose my voice in the matter.
American Energy Independence - no differences. I was upset when Biden opted to bolster OPEC than pursue more independence.
Traditional family values - no differences. My libertarian side would like to see separation of church and state, however.
America first with funding and trade policy - MAGA believe in tariffs, Republicans believe in free trade and free markets. By far this is my biggest separation with MAGA. I am not a fan of tariffs and I am upset this revenue is not being disclosed or used to reduce deficit spending.
Good discussions, I’m glad you asked.
I suppose more context was needed. I'm sure as most know, one of the main reasons its done are officer safety. If tomorrow a law came in saying tactical gear was done, and all operations will be completed with full ID given, faces on display, you'd have no swat, emergency response, tac teams exc. Nearly all members would leave. It's simply a case of officer safety, and their families not being targeted.
I believe common sense is no longer allowed here, you need to self deport from the system. And never again speak truth or logic. 🤣
Looks like I'm about halfway in between you and MAGA then, wherever that is.
I have been in the MC industry for 45 years and roughly 98% of motorcycle industry are right leaning. Most of the left leaning are silent.
Post a reply to: Will the USA balkanize?