MX industry press. Who they working for?

Nerd
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10/6/2010 10:07am
I know I broke the Metcalfe news before a press release (two days before), and we broke the KTM/Short news this morning before the press release.

I already explained that these things are happening very fast. It's more like predicting picks in the NFL draft than talking about trades for Randy Moss. Options change when one of the names disappears from the board because he was picked up by one of the teams.

So, Metty to Suzuki, now Short to KTM... Anyone who wanted either of them now has to go to plan B or C, and there's no way for us to know all of these things a week ago.

Get it?
ando
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10/6/2010 10:08am
Nerd wrote:
Guys, guys, guys... One thing that hasn't been mentioned yet is that some rumors we hear are very reliable, but even racers who have a Letter...
Guys, guys, guys... One thing that hasn't been mentioned yet is that some rumors we hear are very reliable, but even racers who have a Letter of Intent sometimes have their deals fall through. So we as journalists don't want to report something as true until we're supremely confident it is true.

I broke the "Metcalfe to Suzuki" thing on Sunday, but I had been hearing about it since before Southwick. However, a lot of stuff had to happen between then and now, and I don't think the deal was finalized until Saturday because Honda had a "first right of refusal" thing on Metty's contract.

We want to get you the information quickly, but more important than that, we want to be accurate. "Delay is preferable to error." -- Thomas Jefferson

we can still all learn a lot from the U.S. Founders...
Surely there is a middle ground that most reasonable people can interpret correctly, like...

"Metcalfe is off contract at the end of season with Geico, but we understand he is also in talks with Suzuki".

Nothing erroneous or misleading in that.
cyaxares
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10/6/2010 10:08am
Does it matter if you find out who a racer is riding for from a real press release a month after it could have been released as a rumor?

What stake do any of you have in what bike a racer is going to be on next year?
mxgeoff
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10/6/2010 10:11am
You're guess is as good as mine but it's for sure not the fans. I hate to drag Matthes and Watson into this because I generally...
You're guess is as good as mine but it's for sure not the fans. I hate to drag Matthes and Watson into this because I generally consider those guys a couple of my favorite people in the sport and Watson is more an Industry insider than he is a media guy. He just happened to become part of the media by accident w/the Pulp show. Anyways what got me some what PO'ed was listening to the last Pulp show. You guys know how bad silly season is for fans that are not insiders. We are basically played with for a few months until the PR reports about who's going where come out. You got Chad fckin with everyone on twitter and the press throwing maybe's and what ifs at you like crazy. The press in every other sport is in a race to be the one to be the first to break the story on who's going where. In this industry the press is just as secretive about what they know as the teams and riders themselves. What makes it worse is guys like Matthes throw out hints and "I know but can't tell" statements left and right. It's one thing in the press to keep a secret to protect certain interest but it's straight up douche bag --ish to throw it in your readers and listeners face that you know and won't tell. Matthes, on last weeks show, is saying stuff like he's going to a certain green team backed by pro circuit because he likes PC's Kawis and this guy is going to a vague and even more vague red team managed by a guy that wears green hats on sunday and white pants on Thursdays. Then there's Watson, being as vague as he possibly can, chiming in that this could possibly be but it all depends on the guy in the white shorts signing with a certain automobile sponsor that has cars that get 40 mpg.


End rant.
Burn the riders and teams enough and you won't be a scribe in this sport long. Any scribe who has inside information can't give out that information otherwise the riders and teams won't trust them. Forget getting interviews and support from the teams if you burn them.

This is Motocross, one of the smallest sports in the World. It's like a small family, nothing like the sports like NFL, Football, Tennis or whatever. You burn somebody in this sport and your a c**t.

Geoff

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mxgeoff
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10/6/2010 10:15am Edited Date/Time 10/6/2010 10:45am
OW38B wrote:
Seems like these guys always call " a spade, a spade". They call out the AMA, MxSports, FIM, the OEM's and others with no problem. [IMG]http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i37/ow38b/mxa.gif[/IMG]
Seems like these guys always call " a spade, a spade".

They call out the AMA, MxSports, FIM, the OEM's and others with no problem.

Whether they have the facts or not. But yes, they are free with their opinions.
And the facts change so quickly it's hard talking about rumors. Internet has made it impossible to mention something before it's changes again.

When the contract is signed and the team gets to send out their press release then the press can jump on it, otherwise it's a waste of time.

There is an old journalist in Europe called Alex Hogkinson who used to be great with getting the rumors right, but now with internet he's as wrong as often as he is right. Thus not reliable.
Trip
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10/6/2010 10:17am
Nerd wrote:
I know I broke the Metcalfe news before a press release (two days before), and we broke the KTM/Short news this morning before the press release...
I know I broke the Metcalfe news before a press release (two days before), and we broke the KTM/Short news this morning before the press release.

I already explained that these things are happening very fast. It's more like predicting picks in the NFL draft than talking about trades for Randy Moss. Options change when one of the names disappears from the board because he was picked up by one of the teams.

So, Metty to Suzuki, now Short to KTM... Anyone who wanted either of them now has to go to plan B or C, and there's no way for us to know all of these things a week ago.

Get it?
I get it, but you said you had heard about the Metty deal after Southwick.. I'm not saying you need to throw everything you hear out there. Just when you or anyone else who covers mx, if you have a good reliable source, maybe talk about it like in other sports.

You don't have to say it's done deal.

Just curious did you or Racer X chase that story down, or did you get a text from Short?

Do you really think the journalists who cover mx do a good a good job at getting the fans information?
Nerd
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10/6/2010 10:17am
Nerd wrote:
Guys, guys, guys... One thing that hasn't been mentioned yet is that some rumors we hear are very reliable, but even racers who have a Letter...
Guys, guys, guys... One thing that hasn't been mentioned yet is that some rumors we hear are very reliable, but even racers who have a Letter of Intent sometimes have their deals fall through. So we as journalists don't want to report something as true until we're supremely confident it is true.

I broke the "Metcalfe to Suzuki" thing on Sunday, but I had been hearing about it since before Southwick. However, a lot of stuff had to happen between then and now, and I don't think the deal was finalized until Saturday because Honda had a "first right of refusal" thing on Metty's contract.

We want to get you the information quickly, but more important than that, we want to be accurate. "Delay is preferable to error." -- Thomas Jefferson

we can still all learn a lot from the U.S. Founders...
ando wrote:
Surely there is a middle ground that most reasonable people can interpret correctly, like... "Metcalfe is off contract at the end of season with Geico, but...
Surely there is a middle ground that most reasonable people can interpret correctly, like...

"Metcalfe is off contract at the end of season with Geico, but we understand he is also in talks with Suzuki".

Nothing erroneous or misleading in that.
I believe we did report the rumor somewhere.

But here's a good example to show you guys why most of us don't care to speculate:

http://www.racerxonline.com/article/racerhead-39-2009.aspx

Read my buddy Matthes' bit in there.
Nerd
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10/6/2010 10:21am
Nerd wrote:
I know I broke the Metcalfe news before a press release (two days before), and we broke the KTM/Short news this morning before the press release...
I know I broke the Metcalfe news before a press release (two days before), and we broke the KTM/Short news this morning before the press release.

I already explained that these things are happening very fast. It's more like predicting picks in the NFL draft than talking about trades for Randy Moss. Options change when one of the names disappears from the board because he was picked up by one of the teams.

So, Metty to Suzuki, now Short to KTM... Anyone who wanted either of them now has to go to plan B or C, and there's no way for us to know all of these things a week ago.

Get it?
Trip wrote:
I get it, but you said you had heard about the Metty deal after Southwick.. I'm not saying you need to throw everything you hear out...
I get it, but you said you had heard about the Metty deal after Southwick.. I'm not saying you need to throw everything you hear out there. Just when you or anyone else who covers mx, if you have a good reliable source, maybe talk about it like in other sports.

You don't have to say it's done deal.

Just curious did you or Racer X chase that story down, or did you get a text from Short?

Do you really think the journalists who cover mx do a good a good job at getting the fans information?
Before Southwick.

Talk about it like in other sports? All I heard was that they talked. That's not anything. People talk all the time. That's like reporting what they ate for dinner.

And yes, I think we do a good job at getting you information once we know it and it's reliable.
10/6/2010 10:26am
Trip wrote:
I get it, but you said you had heard about the Metty deal after Southwick.. I'm not saying you need to throw everything you hear out...
I get it, but you said you had heard about the Metty deal after Southwick.. I'm not saying you need to throw everything you hear out there. Just when you or anyone else who covers mx, if you have a good reliable source, maybe talk about it like in other sports.

You don't have to say it's done deal.

Just curious did you or Racer X chase that story down, or did you get a text from Short?

Do you really think the journalists who cover mx do a good a good job at getting the fans information?
There's ALWAYS talk like that on this side of the industry. If it was always reported, it would overwhelm everything worthwhile. Then you get into TMZ esq territory.
Trip
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10/6/2010 10:32am
Nerd wrote:
Before Southwick. Talk about it like in other sports? All I heard was that they talked. That's not anything. People talk all the time. That's like...
Before Southwick.

Talk about it like in other sports? All I heard was that they talked. That's not anything. People talk all the time. That's like reporting what they ate for dinner.

And yes, I think we do a good job at getting you information once we know it and it's reliable.
Check ESPN out sometime. All they do in the off season is talk about who might or might not be going where. Already talks of Jeter going elsewhere, how much he is worth to the Yankees, had an off season, getting older. Season isn't even over yet.

The talk in the off season in basketball was the Bosh, James, and Wade all playing together. That's what I mean by other sports. They fill the off season with info, sometimes it's right, sometimes it's wrong, but the fans know that going in...

Ever think people on the outside want to know who is talking to who??? Your to close to the subject to look at it from the fans point of view...

You may feel you do a good job at it, but it is your job, and nobody likes to be critisized about their job...
Nerd
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10/6/2010 10:35am
Nerd wrote:
Before Southwick. Talk about it like in other sports? All I heard was that they talked. That's not anything. People talk all the time. That's like...
Before Southwick.

Talk about it like in other sports? All I heard was that they talked. That's not anything. People talk all the time. That's like reporting what they ate for dinner.

And yes, I think we do a good job at getting you information once we know it and it's reliable.
Trip wrote:
Check ESPN out sometime. All they do in the off season is talk about who might or might not be going where. Already talks of Jeter...
Check ESPN out sometime. All they do in the off season is talk about who might or might not be going where. Already talks of Jeter going elsewhere, how much he is worth to the Yankees, had an off season, getting older. Season isn't even over yet.

The talk in the off season in basketball was the Bosh, James, and Wade all playing together. That's what I mean by other sports. They fill the off season with info, sometimes it's right, sometimes it's wrong, but the fans know that going in...

Ever think people on the outside want to know who is talking to who??? Your to close to the subject to look at it from the fans point of view...

You may feel you do a good job at it, but it is your job, and nobody likes to be critisized about their job...
Info that's wrong isn't info. It's distraction.

You should come to the races and show us how it's done.
GuyB
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10/6/2010 10:36am
Go Trip...

Trip
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10/6/2010 10:36am
Trip wrote:
I get it, but you said you had heard about the Metty deal after Southwick.. I'm not saying you need to throw everything you hear out...
I get it, but you said you had heard about the Metty deal after Southwick.. I'm not saying you need to throw everything you hear out there. Just when you or anyone else who covers mx, if you have a good reliable source, maybe talk about it like in other sports.

You don't have to say it's done deal.

Just curious did you or Racer X chase that story down, or did you get a text from Short?

Do you really think the journalists who cover mx do a good a good job at getting the fans information?
There's ALWAYS talk like that on this side of the industry. If it was always reported, it would overwhelm everything worthwhile. Then you get into TMZ...
There's ALWAYS talk like that on this side of the industry. If it was always reported, it would overwhelm everything worthwhile. Then you get into TMZ esq territory.
we already have a TMZ reporter for all the bs. I'm just asking for real info. Not looking for Reed was chatting with James at a track in California. If someone hears from a reliable source about something maybe happening, I think it should be reported.

It's been a good ol boys club for too long.
Trip
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10/6/2010 10:38am
GuyB wrote:
Go Trip... [img]http://fearlessblogger.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/soapbox.jpg[/img]
Go Trip...

LOL Guy B is funny.. Look it's raining and I'm bored... With that said, I do really feel we should be getting more info from those that cover the sport.

I gotta go to work....
FreshTopEnd
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10/6/2010 10:42am
Nerd wrote:
Before Southwick. Talk about it like in other sports? All I heard was that they talked. That's not anything. People talk all the time. That's like...
Before Southwick.

Talk about it like in other sports? All I heard was that they talked. That's not anything. People talk all the time. That's like reporting what they ate for dinner.

And yes, I think we do a good job at getting you information once we know it and it's reliable.
Trip wrote:
Check ESPN out sometime. All they do in the off season is talk about who might or might not be going where. Already talks of Jeter...
Check ESPN out sometime. All they do in the off season is talk about who might or might not be going where. Already talks of Jeter going elsewhere, how much he is worth to the Yankees, had an off season, getting older. Season isn't even over yet.

The talk in the off season in basketball was the Bosh, James, and Wade all playing together. That's what I mean by other sports. They fill the off season with info, sometimes it's right, sometimes it's wrong, but the fans know that going in...

Ever think people on the outside want to know who is talking to who??? Your to close to the subject to look at it from the fans point of view...

You may feel you do a good job at it, but it is your job, and nobody likes to be critisized about their job...
Nerd wrote:
Info that's wrong isn't info. It's distraction.

You should come to the races and show us how it's done.
It's not distraction. It's deliberately attention getting to get eyeballs on the show and the website. And facts are relatively unimportant in that.

Sports in end are entertainment until some issue larger than sport raises its head.

Nerd
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10/6/2010 10:45am
It's not distraction. It's deliberately attention getting to get eyeballs on the show and the website. And facts are relatively unimportant in that. Sports in end...
It's not distraction. It's deliberately attention getting to get eyeballs on the show and the website. And facts are relatively unimportant in that.

Sports in end are entertainment until some issue larger than sport raises its head.

Sports are always just entertainment.
FreshTopEnd
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10/6/2010 10:52am
It's not distraction. It's deliberately attention getting to get eyeballs on the show and the website. And facts are relatively unimportant in that. Sports in end...
It's not distraction. It's deliberately attention getting to get eyeballs on the show and the website. And facts are relatively unimportant in that.

Sports in end are entertainment until some issue larger than sport raises its head.

Nerd wrote:
Sports are always just entertainment.
But there are issues that come up in that context that are "news" in a more serious sense in that they concern things other than competition when the gate drops.

The current debate about concussions.

In our sport specifically, the governance issues as it affects the GPs, FIM and US racing. And how the economy has affected OEM's, riders' and teams' prospects.
10/6/2010 11:03am
I'm sure this point has been made already and if I'm just making the same point, feel free to ignore it... but unless someone is in final negotiations with a team, I don't see the need for it to be reported.

From a media stand point, you're in a way risking your reputation by reporting on something that may not happen. Yes, you can say it's rumored but some people still tend hold that against you if it doesn't come through. Yeah, that's weird but it happens.

I've been on the 'fan' side a lot longer than I have been on the media side, and I'm nobody in the moto scene (offroad, I'm getting there haha) but I would definitely rather wait until it was almost certain before reporting anything on a major scale. That's just me though.

I think someone already said, it's friends telling friends info. That's part of it too, you don't want to give away what you shouldnt.

Back to the original point of hinting, I have no defense for that other than just wanting to stir up some discussion, which, hmm, looks like it worked!
*
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10/6/2010 11:06am
GuyB wrote:
Sometime you "can't tell" because you'd cost someone money. For example, if you know a certain rider has tested on a different brand bike, but is...
Sometime you "can't tell" because you'd cost someone money. For example, if you know a certain rider has tested on a different brand bike, but is still under contract with his old employer, is it worth it to break that news? I certainly can't afford to reimburse the guy.

I also try not to do the "I know but can't say" thing. If you see something on the silly season chart, there's a very good chance that I got the info from someone reliable, but who may not want their name used.
And that's why this sport is so fucking "B" league.

Terrible.
ando
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10/6/2010 11:42am
It's entirely possible that I'm missing something very obvious here, but I'm seeking to understand and hopefully not coming across as argumentative, so...

Why do teams or riders feel that public knowledge of just the fact that they are negotiating is detrimental? The details of the deal or it's likelihood of reaching final agreement don't have to be published, but why not the fact that they are talking?

I'm not expecting anyone to report that a deal is done when it isn't, but if a team and rider are talking that is a fact that can be reported.

The way it is at the moment, there is a blackhole of information until the press release.

Sure, in the scheme of things it makes no difference, but that's not the point of news. People want to see/read/hear news because they are interested. With the racing season over, the biggest news right now is who is riding for who next season.
OW38B
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10/6/2010 11:46am
OW38B wrote:
Seems like these guys always call " a spade, a spade". They call out the AMA, MxSports, FIM, the OEM's and others with no problem. [IMG]http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i37/ow38b/mxa.gif[/IMG]
Seems like these guys always call " a spade, a spade".

They call out the AMA, MxSports, FIM, the OEM's and others with no problem.

Whether they have the facts or not. But yes, they are free with their opinions.
Kinda like many in here. Smile
DC
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10/6/2010 11:59am Edited Date/Time 10/6/2010 12:00pm
If you watch ESPN you may have seen the episode last month where the reporter Jim Grey got into a big scandal when he reported that Ryder Cup team captain Cory Pavin would name the struggling Tiger Woods as one of the Team USA members. Pavin then denied he said anything, and it turned into a shouting match.



Turns out Tiger Woods was the captain's pick, but the damage done to Pavin and Grey will last for some time. It will also probably affect Gret's ability to get anything from other golfers, even though he was trying to do his job as best he could. (And Jim Grey previously had a round with everyone in baseball when he asked Pete Rose in the middle of an All-Star Game Tribute if he ever bet on baseball. Pete did, we all know, but baseball shunned Grey for lacking respect.... Whatever.)



If Chad Reed told me today who he was riding for, off the record, I would keep it off the record. But when I learned that Andrew Short was going orange (which was honestly a big surprise) it did not come with an off-the-record tag, so Racer X broke it well before the press release came out. Does either make me a bad sports reporter? I think you just have to have balance.... Though I do hate the I-know-but-can't-tell-you angle that does come up from time to time. It's less interesting than it is frustrating.



And for the record, I don't know who Reed is riding for, nor do I wish to guess and be wrong.
mccread
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10/6/2010 12:09pm
OW38B wrote:
Seems like these guys always call " a spade, a spade". They call out the AMA, MxSports, FIM, the OEM's and others with no problem. [IMG]http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i37/ow38b/mxa.gif[/IMG]
Seems like these guys always call " a spade, a spade".

They call out the AMA, MxSports, FIM, the OEM's and others with no problem.

Whether they have the facts or not. But yes, they are free with their opinions.
OW38B wrote:
Kinda like many in here. Smile
MXA as a general stereotypical rule usually find the bad in everything and the good in nothing ( or choose to ignore the good to prove their point)...unless they talk about the 1970s when everything was good and nothing was bad.... (ignoring the bad to prove their point)

FreshTopEnd
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10/6/2010 12:11pm
OW38B wrote:
Seems like these guys always call " a spade, a spade". They call out the AMA, MxSports, FIM, the OEM's and others with no problem. [IMG]http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i37/ow38b/mxa.gif[/IMG]
Seems like these guys always call " a spade, a spade".

They call out the AMA, MxSports, FIM, the OEM's and others with no problem.

Whether they have the facts or not. But yes, they are free with their opinions.
OW38B wrote:
Kinda like many in here. Smile
Well, yeah, but the aspiration could be a little higher.

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