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And I’m sure there’s no way it’s possible you’re missing anyone who’s countering you point. I’ll give Donnie the W on the border situation when he successfully holds those responsible for the open border policy accountable.
You're absolutely right, if stupid could be fixed we wouldn't have so many dumb fucks like you who just blindly fucking follow every word that comes outta Daddy Donalds mouth.
Decorum, gentlemen! Please!
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Interesting what happens when you violate the 1 drop (of critical thinking) rule with MAGA
Crazy how this thread keeps jumping on and off the rails
Why it hasn't been moved to the dumbgeon or clipped is beyond me
Because it comes back on track i guess.
Also its the greatest issue there is in modern times.
Espionage through disgusting criminal activities, for controlling segregation and manipulation of basically all of civilisation! Its that massive.
Who pulls the strings at the absolute top…?
You’re way off on Trumps boarder policy during his first term. Remember Donald didn’t have the house after the mid terms and the dems fought him tooth and nail on building the wall. Remember the….. “Walls are immoral!” Attitude by the dems? They fought him every step of the way on building the wall and implementing any kind of boarder policy including funding.
Hey man I’m just going off of what the guy we voted for told us he was going to get done and there was the retarded part “I’m gonna get Mexico to pay for it”.
Well , he had the right idea ,know? He definitely was on a learning curve the first time around, I’ll admit that. He’s knocking the back out of it this time around though, don’t ya think?
He’s certainly pushing the boundaries of what a president can do. Short term his supporters love it, long term when a dem is back in office you’ll be crying wolf over presidential powers trump expanded.
You're assuming there will be another election...
Probably so….. political supporters have always had amnesia when the other side is in control. That’s a part of politics baby! 💯😂😂
No that’s just being what republicans have loved slinging around the past decade. A sheep.
So are you actually implying that democrats don’t pull the exact same nonsense that republicans do?
Not at all. They do the same. But that’s a term republicans supporters latched onto. And what was described in what I quoted is a ‘sheep’. The very thing trump supporters claim they aren’t.
We know both sides play the same game and we willingly go along with it even though we know it’s bad for us.
Regarding the border.
Let me dumb it down for some of y’all. If I borrow your truck to run down to the Piggly Wiggly to get some beer and when I get back I park it in the yard and leave the windows down. It rains all night. In the morning the interior of your truck is soaking wet. Whose fault is it?
Pit Row
Tip a the hat to you Sir.💯
I like that…..😂
The analogy fails because the rain doesn’t have will or intention and thus isn’t the kind of thing that can be morally culpable. So yes, in this scenario the person who left the window opened is the only person who can be responsible. But that’s not the kind of scenario we’re interested in given what we’re discussing. We’re discussing situations where people - being with their own will and intentions - are committing crimes.
A better analogy would be I borrowed your car and didn’t lock the doors and someone helped themself to the stereo. I’m stupid and to blame for leaving the car unlocked, but the thief is ultimately culpable for stealing the stereo. You’d be justifiably angry with me for my carelessness, but my negligence doesn’t give them the right to steal, so they should still be held responsible.
If I agreed with you we’d both be wrong.
I apologize if I’m not clearly grasping your point. But I think all 66 is trying to get across is by his illustration is that it’s the persons fault that had the opportunity to close the window just like the Biden administration had an opportunity to close the border but left it open. It’s actually quite a good illustration. Truck belongs to 45- Biden borrows the truck- Biden leves the window down - widow is the border - and the rain are the unwanted illegals. That’s how I take it anyway.💯
MPJC point is it’s the person who is breaking the law who is at fault.
If a student is taking a test and the teacher mistakenly has the answers written on the chalkboard from the previous class and the student uses those answers it’s the student who is at fault for cheating. The teacher may be dumb but they didn’t break the rules.
I’m not disputing that part of it. But we’re not talking about rain, we’re talking about people, and people, unlike rain, can be responsible for their own actions - even when someone else also did something wrong.
I once forgot to lock my truck and had a helmet and a few other things stolen. I’m stupid for not locking it but that doesn’t mean that the theif is morally or legally in the clear. Bad actors prey on others’ mistakes and those mistakes shouldn’t blind us to who’s really the bad actor in a situation. The rain analogy doesn’t capture the nuance of a situation where there’s some shared responsibility, but one party is more culpable than the other.
I’m rather annoyed with myself for bothering engaging with this line of argument because it’s not actually relevant to the topic at hand and R66 doesn’t seem like someone particularly interested in nuance anyways.
You’re basic point is exactly right - I’m not sure about that example though. It’s hard to blame the students since the students wouldn’t really be trying to cheat - they’d pretty much have to try really hard not to cheat.
Yea perhaps I was a bit hasty in my example but that’s what came to mind.
It conveys the basic point that when someone breaks the law, as you aptly put it, it’s the person who breaks the law that’s at fault.
I’m still annoyed to have been drawn into this line of argument in the first place. But it would be wrong of me to blame anyone other than myself!
My point and I believe 66’s point is that if the window wasn’t left down the rain/ people wouldn’t have been able to get in/ break the law.
Of course. That’s not in dispute. The person who left the window/border opened has done something wrong. I’m completely in agreement with that. As a general principle, if I have a duty to protect someone and I fail in that duty then I’m blameworthy.
The problem is that stopping there would be leaving out something very important. If my failure results in someone harming the person I should have been protecting, the person who caused the harm is culpable for causing the harm. If I messed up and someone jumps on the opportunity to do something terrible, then focusing solely on my failure and ignoring the terrible thing that someone did - that they wouldn’t have been able to do if I hadn’t failed - is leaving out the most morally salient feature of the situation. My failure is bad, but it’s not exculpatory for the bad actors that take advantage of it.
This is why I am objecting to saying “rain/people”: it leaves no room for something essential to understanding the moral landscape of the situation. An analogy aims to highlight relevant similarities and it fails to do that if there are glaring relevant differences. The glaring difference is that rain cannot be responsible for things in the same way as people. It makes no sense to ascribe moral agency to rain so it leaves out something important: more than one moral agent.
I really don’t know what more I can say about this.
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