Why America Dominates the Des Nations - A Sociological Explanation:

cpj36
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9/28/2010 9:24am
PressPassP wrote:
Just some observations on the weekend and some points to maybe straighten a few things out? Mcread missed out a lot of riders too and your...
Just some observations on the weekend and some points to maybe straighten a few things out? Mcread missed out a lot of riders too and your list has imports



If all the Euro's/GP riders stayed Home they'd still improve but they do it for the $$$$$$$$ !! And as long as its there more will follow,in other sports like Soccer for instance,the place to be is in Europe,that's where the big money is



As for Gapping people by 30 seconds,that happened more in the AMA as the GP tracks differ a lot and throw up more winners



Cairoli beat Dungey in the qualifier and came from 6th place to catch and push Dungey hard,shame he tweaked himself and his asthma stopped his charge as the race wouldhave been even better,he was only 5 seconds down at the finish anyhow and the last race he was as low as 15th around the first few turns so 4th wasn't too bad Dungey and Short's starts made sure of the win,Short stepped up and was by far the right choice,especially at Thunder Valley and Dungey is a machine right now,on a side note,BOOG,fastest all weekend!!



Roczen straight up passed Canard in the qualifier and pulled a lead on him but went down but in the race his laptimes were 4seconds quicker,I know Trey had some issuesW but Roczen proved himself the most impressive rider of the weekend regarding everyone I've spoken to.



As for Euros as a whole,DeSalle tried twice to deck Roczen and Ken gave him some back when he passed him so there's no love lost between the Euro's!



Albertson Leib and Osbourne are guys wle should really listen to as no matter what we say on here,they've done it both ways.They've dealt with the difference in cultures languages and foods,sure the food tastes good in the USA as its mostly processed Crap! Fries.burgers,Corndogs,Pizza's,Slurpeys,Sodas with heaps of Sugar in them,Caffeine hits all day with oversized Coffees,take outs and fast food joints on every street corner,no wonder the obesity record belongs firmly in America (along with some other undesirable records,drugs,guns,crime?) so let's not be so narrow minded as there are flaws all over the world,I've been lucky enough to travel to many places all over the world and its opened my eyes and taught me to reserve judgement,actually only 20% of Americans actually own passports which is quite an eye opener! Americans dont venture out enough,that can lead to thinking the whole world revolves around America when it doesn't!



It's way cheaper in the US to race too,if you compare it to my buddy who races in England where the exchange rate is around £1.60 to $1 (its usually been a little higher on average before the global crisis) things go a bit like this in England things cost:

Gas $8.30 a gallon

Cost to practice at a track.$50 sometimes they're hours away too as they are closing places,heaps of be restrictions etc

Honda CR450f. $8,600

1litre oil. $14.20

Stuff is cheaper in America,and tracks are more accessible,heck you could practice every day in Cali,on different tracks too.The opportunities have always been better in the US and economics and size all nurture along the way and favour the USA in the MXoN under the format



In a nutshell as long as oil is sold in $$'s everything won't be so bad,if it changes,well then if we think the economy isn't good now,it'd be so bad its best not to imagine a bankrupt USA??

(long live the Petrodollar! )

We can rant and spit forever on here but it goes nowhere,all I know is I loved what I saw at the weekend,roll on next year babyWink
We are fatter but you guys smoke more, and I think there's a correlation.

If you seen any smokers at MXDN, odds are they weren't American.
MOTOPHILE
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9/28/2010 9:42am
Maybe it also has to do with circumcision, or a lack thereof. Allowing certain countries to sit further up on the tank. I mean the population graph and results seem to allude to this pehenom...
JackLHyde
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9/28/2010 9:52am
Awesome thread. I've evaluated two interesting figures: The annual income of an American is about 46.000$. Europe has almost the same gross domestic product, but way more citizens. I've come up with about 25.000$! Go figure why the USA have so many good racers.
PressPassP
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9/28/2010 10:25am
cpj36 wrote:
We are fatter but you guys smoke more, and I think there's a correlation.

If you seen any smokers at MXDN, odds are they weren't American.
I doubt they were from the UK though,It's banned virtually everywhere,but if you did get cancer they treat you for free (and everything else)Wink

The Shop

EmDub425
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9/28/2010 10:46am
America is without a doubt a dominating force in motocross racing worldwide. We have won 21 of the last 31 Motocross of Nations, which is quite...


America is without a doubt a dominating force in motocross racing worldwide. We have won 21 of the last 31 Motocross of Nations, which is quite an astonishing feat. However, the question why we are so dominate, is rarely ever asked, and to my knowledge, has never been given any sort of explanation.

Scientific studies support that all humans are practically the same, with no race being superior over another. Now considering that most American racers are in America today, because of their ancestors traveled four-thousand miles across the Atlantic Ocean, the answer to this question cannot be found in the biology of the individual racers themselves, but rather by focusing on environmental, and social factors.

The reason some countries are great at motocross, is not explained by how hard their fans can wave a flags with nationalist zeal, our or how hard these fans can bash their adversaries on internet message boards. Instead, the answers have a lot to do with environmental factors: the economic prosperity of the country, population density, interest of the sport, the size of the country in square miles, number of tracks in the country, and the progression level of the sport in said region of the world (which is correlated and connected, to these factors).

For example, do not expect to see a third world country lacking in motocross resources win the Des Nations anytime soon; and the odds of an over-populated country (such as China), who lacks motocross facilities compared to the United States, pulling off a win at the Des Nations, is also just as highly unlikely.

In the last thirty years, only five nations have won the Motocross Des Nations events (US 21, Great Britain 1, Belgium 6, Italy 2, France 1).









As you can see by this map, America is enormously huge in comparison to its closest rivals, as a whole. France itself is a slightly smaller country than the size of Texas, England is close to the size of Kansas, Italy is closest to the size of New Mexico, and Belgium, who has won the second most races in the past thirty years, is about the size of Maryland (source, Wikipedia). This gives America an enormous advantage by being able to pick riders from a talent pool that is nearly ten times in size of the other four countries who have won in the past thirty years, combined. And this is only one of the contributing factors! Just imagine if individual regions, or riders from individual states, such as California, were only allowed to compete...

As mentioned before, economic wealth of a nation is another factor. As you can see by this map, countries that have won in the past thirty years, are environments were people can afford to race and own dirt bikes. Motocross is an enormously expensive sport, so If people can't afford dirt bikes, how are they expected to become professionals in either the AMA, or MXGP series? And it's not just as simple as a few people in a country being able to afford a dirt bike; the more people are racing in a country, the deeper the talent pool becomes, due to the racers competing, learning, and motivating one another. Most racers thank their parents, because they know without them and their support, they wouldn't have had the opportunity to be on television giving podium speeches.

For more food for thought on this subject: does anyone believe if Ricky Carmichael grew up in third world country, without parents who could afford to buy him a dirtbike, and without a competitive group of racers to compete against, that he would hold 15 AMA titles? It would be interesting to hear his answer, especially considering he contributes a lot of his success with the way he was raised...







In conclusion, any country with a motocross resume like America, in regards to the population, wealth, size, and talent pool (to choose from, due to the aforementioned factors) would be expected to have similar results.

This is not in any way intended to discredit the achievements of the racers as individuals. Every racer who competes in the Des Nations represents the world's elite, of the sport; and any racer who wins such an event, has accomplished a feat indescribable by human words. Maybe instead of continuing the constant bickering, and debasing of the world's greatest athletes in the sport, perhaps we should embrace the Motocross Des Nations as a whole, on a global level, rather than a national level, and recognize it for what it is: the best damn racers on the planet racing dirt bikes from different environments.

Thanks Hank,

I posted this in a thread a few days ago and basically got called a fucking idiot.

"I have to agree here. Look at the amount of riders the USA has to choose from. Most European countries are the size of a lot of our states. So what if the USA had to pick 3 riders born in the same state? Would we Still Win, and who would the teams be?

Cali- Alessi, Grant and ?

Washington RV, hill and ?

Florida Stewart, chisholm, goerke?

A fair comparison really is USA vs the european continent, sorry to say."
jamma10
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9/28/2010 10:52am
EmDub425 wrote:
Thanks Hank, I posted this in a thread a few days ago and basically got called a fucking idiot. "I have to agree here. Look at...
Thanks Hank,

I posted this in a thread a few days ago and basically got called a fucking idiot.

"I have to agree here. Look at the amount of riders the USA has to choose from. Most European countries are the size of a lot of our states. So what if the USA had to pick 3 riders born in the same state? Would we Still Win, and who would the teams be?

Cali- Alessi, Grant and ?

Washington RV, hill and ?

Florida Stewart, chisholm, goerke?

A fair comparison really is USA vs the european continent, sorry to say."
Golfers must just be more intelligent than us Motocrosser's. Smile
CamP
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9/28/2010 11:02am Edited Date/Time 9/28/2010 11:04am
"A fair comparison really is USA vs the european continent, sorry to say."

Maybe it should be the Motocross of Continents! I think North America would still win more than we lose.
Hank_Thrill
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9/28/2010 11:05am Edited Date/Time 9/28/2010 11:07am
Well, I typed most 75% of that post last year - just didn't post it. I posted it this year because I hoped that maybe everyone could take a step back and just appreciate all the riders who race the Motocross Des Nations, without the "my group is better than your group" shit talking. I think the only way for that to stop, is if there was some Motocross Des Planets race were to be held, where all the earth's top racers competed against extraterrestrials from other galaxies! haha (I dont believe in aliens btw)



Also, a theory is not fact. It is just an explanation of something supported by facts. It cannot be proved, or disproved, only "supported" or "not supported" - by the facts.



Gardner37
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9/28/2010 11:16am
How about we stay out of the MXDN and let the euro's race themselves.

Belgium will win every year.

Then someone will come up with some cockamamie theory that Belgian waffles are the key to their dominance.
Mr. G
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9/28/2010 11:21am
I always thought it came down to how deep in the field people got paid. Is it still true that in Europe riders get paid further down in placement in how they finish? That is to say if one country only pays up to tenth place then the rider would be more motivated to place higher as opposed to just settling? Maybe someone knows.
jtomasik
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9/28/2010 11:21am Edited Date/Time 9/28/2010 11:22am
Well shit. And here I thought we had the greatest racers because we're God-Fearing Christians in the greatest country on the planet, and God personally blessed each and every one of our United States citizens with superior motocross riding DNA...
mumhra
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9/28/2010 11:46am
Great post by Hank_Thrill. Applause Smile . Hank is someone who sees it just like me but he can explain it a lot better. Probably because his native language is english and mine isn't. Smile

You have to be very carefull though. Having a large population ofcourse helps. But the population/square mile should not be to high because in that case you won't have any mx tracks. That is a problem we are facing in Belgium these days. To many inhabitants and tracks are closing down one after another. Why ? Noise pollution ofcourse. So having a big country sizewise, helps.

Lots of people wonder why Belgium, such a small country has produced so many top riders. I think there is a perfectly good explanation. Soil. Belgium is very small, and still we have all sorts of soil. In the north of Belgium there is sand, and lots of it. Lommel is famous. And 60 miles south you have the hardest tracks you can imagine.

South of Belgium is France, all hard packed tracks. North of Belgium is Holland, all sand tracks. French riders can't ride in the sand, and dutch riders can't ride on hard packed tracks. That is why belgian riders always were so good. And even now, almost every rider that rides the GP series (Cairoli, Phillipaerts, Roczen,... lives in Belgium. Because you have all sorts of tracks very close to eachother.

But the future is not looking bright. Belgium is getting to crowded. Tracks are closing down one after another. My guess is that in 10 years time Belgium won't be a top mx country any more.
Hank_Thrill
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9/28/2010 12:07pm
mumhra wrote:
Great post by Hank_Thrill. Applause :) . Hank is someone who sees it just like me but he can explain it a lot better. Probably because...
Great post by Hank_Thrill. Applause Smile . Hank is someone who sees it just like me but he can explain it a lot better. Probably because his native language is english and mine isn't. Smile

You have to be very carefull though. Having a large population ofcourse helps. But the population/square mile should not be to high because in that case you won't have any mx tracks. That is a problem we are facing in Belgium these days. To many inhabitants and tracks are closing down one after another. Why ? Noise pollution ofcourse. So having a big country sizewise, helps.

Lots of people wonder why Belgium, such a small country has produced so many top riders. I think there is a perfectly good explanation. Soil. Belgium is very small, and still we have all sorts of soil. In the north of Belgium there is sand, and lots of it. Lommel is famous. And 60 miles south you have the hardest tracks you can imagine.

South of Belgium is France, all hard packed tracks. North of Belgium is Holland, all sand tracks. French riders can't ride in the sand, and dutch riders can't ride on hard packed tracks. That is why belgian riders always were so good. And even now, almost every rider that rides the GP series (Cairoli, Phillipaerts, Roczen,... lives in Belgium. Because you have all sorts of tracks very close to eachother.

But the future is not looking bright. Belgium is getting to crowded. Tracks are closing down one after another. My guess is that in 10 years time Belgium won't be a top mx country any more.
Did you get the private message I sent you??? I noticed last night in another thread where you were saying basically the same thing two days ago! I promise I didn't plagiarize your ideas! It's pretty neat we were both thinking in a similar way though haha!

I'm saddened to hear about the tracks getting shut down in Belgium due to noise pollution Sad Maybe all the riders, and perhaps Roger DeCoster, could get together and speak to the government to help out in some way??

"South of Belgium is France, all hard packed tracks. North of Belgium is Holland, all sand tracks. French riders can't ride in the sand, and dutch riders can't ride on hard packed tracks. That is why belgian riders always were so good. And even now, almost every rider that rides the GP series (Cairoli, Phillipaerts, Roczen,... lives in Belgium. Because you have all sorts of tracks very close to each other."

^^^^ That is very fascinating, and a great point!
mccread
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9/28/2010 12:14pm Edited Date/Time 9/28/2010 12:16pm
EmDub425 wrote:
Thanks Hank, I posted this in a thread a few days ago and basically got called a fucking idiot. "I have to agree here. Look at...
Thanks Hank,

I posted this in a thread a few days ago and basically got called a fucking idiot.

"I have to agree here. Look at the amount of riders the USA has to choose from. Most European countries are the size of a lot of our states. So what if the USA had to pick 3 riders born in the same state? Would we Still Win, and who would the teams be?

Cali- Alessi, Grant and ?

Washington RV, hill and ?

Florida Stewart, chisholm, goerke?

A fair comparison really is USA vs the european continent, sorry to say."
jamma10 wrote:
Golfers must just be more intelligent than us Motocrosser's. Smile
Exactly nice to see some perspective...don't forget the MX2 rider has to be under 23... I am pretty sure a Euro team of Desalle Cairoli and Roczen would beat the individual states of the US more often than not..hence giving the illusion that the Euros are better than the Americans... which would be as delusional as saying the US riders are better that Europeans based on the MXDN.

I would guess Belgium or France would win if the States of the US had to send their own team based on where each rider was born...

That is why I took the top 10 European born riders from each class and matched them with the top 10 from America... it would be pretty even and produce some great racing.

I think the Golf format is pretty good, I would love to see a MXDN one week and a ryder cup style race the next... that would be two weekends of motocross to look forward too!
gt80rider
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9/28/2010 12:17pm
actually hank, if you take away map distortions..... Europe = 4,010,000 sq2 miles. USA = 3,790,000 sq2 miles (not north america, USofA) now, a dose of...
actually hank, if you take away map distortions.....

Europe = 4,010,000 sq2 miles.
USA = 3,790,000 sq2 miles (not north america, USofA)

now, a dose of reality

USA has a population pool of approximately 310,000,000 (give or take 500,000 at any given time)

Europe as a whole has a population pool of 731,000,000 (give or take 500,000 at any given time).

Prolem is, that 731mil is divided up into 50 internationally recognised sovereign states

So, the USA has 310mil to get 3
EU has 731mil divided by 50 or 14,620,000 per country IF you averaged it, to get 3.

Think of it like this.... if there was an MXoUSA and each STATE had to send 3 riders... the larger by population states should statisically always be on top...

Its not as much about money, its not about land size when talking about countries that have an MX community. you have a population pool per country, get 3 of the best. More people = better chance of having 3 top tier.
blah blah blah...

and my one word response to your rambling is....

wait for it....

China....

gt80rider
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9/28/2010 12:23pm
btw..... someone brought up the idea of MXoAmerica.... the top 3 riders from each state would compete.... i freak'n dig that idea.. i'd make the trip for sure to go watch that...
Huckster
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9/28/2010 12:35pm
Taken from PulpMX, Tyla Rattray interview. World GP champion. may know a thing or two more about his debate then the rest of us: Enjoy.....

What’s your take on the never-ending debates of fans about which series is better, who’s tracks are better and all that?

I think the tracks in America, they do a good job. I think the main thing in Europe is that before the races start, they put so much water on the track, it’s so slick and that’s where we get the guys cruising at the beginning of a moto and then after fifteen minutes the tracks getting better and you can start pushing from there. Here they put just enough water on the track to make it tacky all moto and you can push the whole way from lap one and on. In America, the depth is a lot deeper than what it is over there. Over there I think there are two or three guys that can go and win a GP but over here there are six or seven guys that are capable of winning a national. And the guys that are just outside of winning are still real solid over here.

And then you have the amateurs over here that are ready to go right out of the junior ranks. Those four lap races that they do, they bring that intensity over here for the whole moto. So I think the depth and the intensity are much more over here.
mumhra
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9/28/2010 12:38pm
yamazuki wrote:
I disagree on a number of points. As I stated in another post, it takes interest, resources, determination and hard work to produce good motocrossers. "In...
I disagree on a number of points.

As I stated in another post, it takes interest, resources, determination and hard work to produce good motocrossers.

"In conclusion, any country with a motocross resume like America, in regards to the population, wealth, size, and talent pool (to choose from, due to the aforementioned factors) would be expected to have similar results.

America has all those things but it does not do well in Soccer. Why? Because there is no interest or little should I say in the sport. This puts a big hole in your theory. But I do agree you have to have some level of resources and wealth to do well in motocross.

Then there is Ernesto Fonseca, a great talent from a poor country. Again, it was his interest that drove him to where he was before his injury. Despite the economics of the country and resources he overcame.

So while America has the money and resources, if it did not have interest, like soccer, we would not do very well. So it is not automaticly expected that a country with our wealth and resources do well, there has to be a cultural or personal interest in the sport, wealth, opportunity, and resources do not automaticly mean success, it is interest, determination, and hard work that counts for the difference between Europe and USA.
Determination and hard work....

OK. Let's take a look at the olympic games 2008 in Bejing. USA won 110 medals. 36 gold, 38 silver and 36 bronze medals. Belgium won 2 medals. 1 gold, 1 silver.

Why did the USA won so many more ? Determination and hard work ? Or are Belgians just plain lazy ? Or maybe there were more american athletes there, so the pool is bigger ?

Let's assume that every single athlete can only win 1 medal (Phelps won a lot more, but let's just assume this) and let's assume that every country is only allowed to send 3 athletes to the olympic games.
How many medals would America have won and how many would Belgium have won ? Simple. America would have won 3 gold medals because America would send their 3 best athletes. And if 1 of those 3 was injured, America would have sent their 4th best, who would've won a gold medal as well. And if that 4th one was injured America would've sent it's 5th best athlete, who would've won a gold one as well.
How many medals would Belgium have won ? Simple... 2, 1 gold and 1 silver. The 3rd best athlete in this country is not good enough to win a medal. And if one of those 3 athletes would be injured, then we really would be in trouble.

I hope this example makes you understand. The belgian and european riders also work hard, and also have a lot of interest and determination. The pool is just not as big.
mumhra
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9/28/2010 12:39pm
Did you get the private message I sent you??? I noticed last night in another thread where you were saying basically the same thing two days...
Did you get the private message I sent you??? I noticed last night in another thread where you were saying basically the same thing two days ago! I promise I didn't plagiarize your ideas! It's pretty neat we were both thinking in a similar way though haha!

I'm saddened to hear about the tracks getting shut down in Belgium due to noise pollution Sad Maybe all the riders, and perhaps Roger DeCoster, could get together and speak to the government to help out in some way??

"South of Belgium is France, all hard packed tracks. North of Belgium is Holland, all sand tracks. French riders can't ride in the sand, and dutch riders can't ride on hard packed tracks. That is why belgian riders always were so good. And even now, almost every rider that rides the GP series (Cairoli, Phillipaerts, Roczen,... lives in Belgium. Because you have all sorts of tracks very close to each other."

^^^^ That is very fascinating, and a great point!
I missed that pm. I will read it now Smile
Huckster
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9/28/2010 12:45pm
mumhra wrote:
Determination and hard work.... OK. Let's take a look at the olympic games 2008 in Bejing. USA won 110 medals. 36 gold, 38 silver and 36...
Determination and hard work....

OK. Let's take a look at the olympic games 2008 in Bejing. USA won 110 medals. 36 gold, 38 silver and 36 bronze medals. Belgium won 2 medals. 1 gold, 1 silver.

Why did the USA won so many more ? Determination and hard work ? Or are Belgians just plain lazy ? Or maybe there were more american athletes there, so the pool is bigger ?

Let's assume that every single athlete can only win 1 medal (Phelps won a lot more, but let's just assume this) and let's assume that every country is only allowed to send 3 athletes to the olympic games.
How many medals would America have won and how many would Belgium have won ? Simple. America would have won 3 gold medals because America would send their 3 best athletes. And if 1 of those 3 was injured, America would have sent their 4th best, who would've won a gold medal as well. And if that 4th one was injured America would've sent it's 5th best athlete, who would've won a gold one as well.
How many medals would Belgium have won ? Simple... 2, 1 gold and 1 silver. The 3rd best athlete in this country is not good enough to win a medal. And if one of those 3 athletes would be injured, then we really would be in trouble.

I hope this example makes you understand. The belgian and european riders also work hard, and also have a lot of interest and determination. The pool is just not as big.
Canada won more gold medals than any other country in the 2010 Winter Olympics....Last I looked, their "pool" isnt very big....
Hank_Thrill
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9/28/2010 1:03pm
yamazuki wrote:
I disagree on a number of points. As I stated in another post, it takes interest, resources, determination and hard work to produce good motocrossers. "In...
I disagree on a number of points.

As I stated in another post, it takes interest, resources, determination and hard work to produce good motocrossers.

"In conclusion, any country with a motocross resume like America, in regards to the population, wealth, size, and talent pool (to choose from, due to the aforementioned factors) would be expected to have similar results.

America has all those things but it does not do well in Soccer. Why? Because there is no interest or little should I say in the sport. This puts a big hole in your theory. But I do agree you have to have some level of resources and wealth to do well in motocross.

Then there is Ernesto Fonseca, a great talent from a poor country. Again, it was his interest that drove him to where he was before his injury. Despite the economics of the country and resources he overcame.

So while America has the money and resources, if it did not have interest, like soccer, we would not do very well. So it is not automaticly expected that a country with our wealth and resources do well, there has to be a cultural or personal interest in the sport, wealth, opportunity, and resources do not automaticly mean success, it is interest, determination, and hard work that counts for the difference between Europe and USA.
mumhra wrote:
Determination and hard work.... OK. Let's take a look at the olympic games 2008 in Bejing. USA won 110 medals. 36 gold, 38 silver and 36...
Determination and hard work....

OK. Let's take a look at the olympic games 2008 in Bejing. USA won 110 medals. 36 gold, 38 silver and 36 bronze medals. Belgium won 2 medals. 1 gold, 1 silver.

Why did the USA won so many more ? Determination and hard work ? Or are Belgians just plain lazy ? Or maybe there were more american athletes there, so the pool is bigger ?

Let's assume that every single athlete can only win 1 medal (Phelps won a lot more, but let's just assume this) and let's assume that every country is only allowed to send 3 athletes to the olympic games.
How many medals would America have won and how many would Belgium have won ? Simple. America would have won 3 gold medals because America would send their 3 best athletes. And if 1 of those 3 was injured, America would have sent their 4th best, who would've won a gold medal as well. And if that 4th one was injured America would've sent it's 5th best athlete, who would've won a gold one as well.
How many medals would Belgium have won ? Simple... 2, 1 gold and 1 silver. The 3rd best athlete in this country is not good enough to win a medal. And if one of those 3 athletes would be injured, then we really would be in trouble.

I hope this example makes you understand. The belgian and european riders also work hard, and also have a lot of interest and determination. The pool is just not as big.
I'm not interested in explaining Olympic sports. That's a different area than this motocross topic, but I expect some similarities. This is what I typed on page two in response to yamazuki....


"As I stated earlier, my initial post is not the final and absolute truth on the matter. What you typed about "social interest" doesn't put a hole in the theory, it just adds to it: social interest in the activity is likely a big contributing element as to what societies produce the best motocrossers - I fully agree.

Determination and hard work are more psychological characterists of an individual though, not sociological elements. Of course, you could measure the work ethic and determination of a country. In that case, America's obesity rate and immigrant labor force for jobs that require "manual labor / hard work" would probably put us near the bottom of that list.

And finally, using Ernesto Fonseca as example coming from a poorer country does not debunk the theory. Though it does add merit to his motocross achievements as an individual (coming from an extremely underprivileged country), it only supports the theory. With a country like Costa Rica (and others similar) you wouldn't expect much of a dent in the Motocross Des Nation's record books, and that's exactly what you see. They haven't won a title as a country, and this year they didn't even finish in the top twenty at Des Nations; though I am sure their racers were the most hardworking, talented, and determined motocross athletes the country produced.

Judging by their hourly wadges, I doubt very many people of their 4.5 million population own off-road motorcycles. Not to say that it's impossible for a great racer to come from such a country - Ernesto Fonseca being a great example - but when you look at the statistics, it is very unlikely. What Ernesto pulled off is amazing!"
Sunhouse
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9/28/2010 1:11pm
mumhra wrote:
Determination and hard work.... OK. Let's take a look at the olympic games 2008 in Bejing. USA won 110 medals. 36 gold, 38 silver and 36...
Determination and hard work....

OK. Let's take a look at the olympic games 2008 in Bejing. USA won 110 medals. 36 gold, 38 silver and 36 bronze medals. Belgium won 2 medals. 1 gold, 1 silver.

Why did the USA won so many more ? Determination and hard work ? Or are Belgians just plain lazy ? Or maybe there were more american athletes there, so the pool is bigger ?

Let's assume that every single athlete can only win 1 medal (Phelps won a lot more, but let's just assume this) and let's assume that every country is only allowed to send 3 athletes to the olympic games.
How many medals would America have won and how many would Belgium have won ? Simple. America would have won 3 gold medals because America would send their 3 best athletes. And if 1 of those 3 was injured, America would have sent their 4th best, who would've won a gold medal as well. And if that 4th one was injured America would've sent it's 5th best athlete, who would've won a gold one as well.
How many medals would Belgium have won ? Simple... 2, 1 gold and 1 silver. The 3rd best athlete in this country is not good enough to win a medal. And if one of those 3 athletes would be injured, then we really would be in trouble.

I hope this example makes you understand. The belgian and european riders also work hard, and also have a lot of interest and determination. The pool is just not as big.
Huckster wrote:
Canada won more gold medals than any other country in the 2010 Winter Olympics....Last I looked, their "pool" isnt very big....
In wintersports it is! Which is why Mexico or Belize didnt win a single medal
stofcri
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9/28/2010 1:25pm Edited Date/Time 9/28/2010 1:26pm
WHAT ABOUT THE WEATHER ? MY BROTHER LIVE IN CALIFORNIA CLOSED TO SAN DIEGO.HE WEARS A T-SHIRT ALL YEAR LONG. IT'S NEVER RAIN. TO TRAIN IS EASIER. WHY THE MAJORITY OF THE TOP GUY LIVE IN CALIFORNIA ?
WHAT ABOUT YOUR SUPERCROSS CHAMPIONSHIP WHICH STARTS IN JANUARY ??...
9/28/2010 3:07pm
Nazi talk? Why is someone labeled Nazi or Fascist if they do not fit someone elses point of view. You certainately don't share my views does that mean you are a Nazi too? Don't forget if it wasn't for the good ole' US' you'd be goose stepping and eating struedel over there. Nobody makes millions playing crikcet now do they????
9/28/2010 3:17pm
Lets go with land masses, If Antarctica fields a team that would be 21 racers on the track. Everyone starts on the front row, advantage North America. Or should I say USA. To the guy whom said our kickball team is getting better Who cares, it just takes up a TV at Buffalo Wild Wings that could be tuned to something more interesting, like the Antiques Road Show or a test pattern.
downandup
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9/28/2010 4:49pm
This is a ridiculous post. There are far too many variables involved to quantify. Also, don't forgot, corrrelation doesn't mean causation.

People keep talking about how rich Americancs are compared to citizens of other countries by merely comparing how much $$ one makes in a year, but what about cost of living where one lives? It is much more expensive to live in San Diego, and LA for example.

Unless you do a proper study, this post is just lame.
yamazuki
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9/28/2010 5:31pm
downandup wrote:
This is a ridiculous post. There are far too many variables involved to quantify. Also, don't forgot, corrrelation doesn't mean causation. People keep talking about how...
This is a ridiculous post. There are far too many variables involved to quantify. Also, don't forgot, corrrelation doesn't mean causation.

People keep talking about how rich Americancs are compared to citizens of other countries by merely comparing how much $$ one makes in a year, but what about cost of living where one lives? It is much more expensive to live in San Diego, and LA for example.

Unless you do a proper study, this post is just lame.
Sorry, I would have to disagree there on the rich thing. You see America does not have a vat tax, we don't pay for gas by the litre, only in the most expensive areas, such as rich neighborhoods are cost of living even close to the Euros. Now there are a couple Euro countries that have a cost of living near America but for the most part you guys get the shaft. Just look at the price of electronics, cars, gas, milk, bread, Levi 401s, housing and I feel for the Euros, they absolutly get the shaft. Americans do not understand how good we have it here until we visit or live there. When Euros vist my house, they are amazed how low the cost of living is and how much more we get paid for the same job over there. You cannot really bunch all the Euro countries together because there are some that are reasonable just as you cannot group all the states together but overall, the average joe in Europe gets the shaft, with no lube.
eddie
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9/28/2010 6:14pm
Halfast816 wrote:
Nazi talk? Why is someone labeled Nazi or Fascist if they do not fit someone elses point of view. You certainately don't share my views does...
Nazi talk? Why is someone labeled Nazi or Fascist if they do not fit someone elses point of view. You certainately don't share my views does that mean you are a Nazi too? Don't forget if it wasn't for the good ole' US' you'd be goose stepping and eating struedel over there. Nobody makes millions playing crikcet now do they????
"Nobody makes millions playing crikcet now do they????"


oh hell ya they do .
9/28/2010 7:54pm Edited Date/Time 9/28/2010 7:54pm
They still need a bat as big as a canoe paddle to hit the ball though. Plus it has a flat side and they wear uniforms that look like the ice cream man.
PressPassP
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9/28/2010 9:15pm
Halfast816 wrote:
Lets go with land masses, If Antarctica fields a team that would be 21 racers on the track. Everyone starts on the front row, advantage North...
Lets go with land masses, If Antarctica fields a team that would be 21 racers on the track. Everyone starts on the front row, advantage North America. Or should I say USA. To the guy whom said our kickball team is getting better Who cares, it just takes up a TV at Buffalo Wild Wings that could be tuned to something more interesting, like the Antiques Road Show or a test pattern.
who cares? well like it or not,this kickball is the most popular sport on the planet and not so long back it wouldn't have been on tv at Buffalo wild wings or anywhere at all as a matter of fact,the kids are playing it in schools everywhere ,now and are growing up with it and its popularity is growing and growing in the US where the start-stop sports have been the tradition

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