If you don't think health insurance is necessary....

LoudLove
Profile picture for user LoudLove
Posts
2954
Joined
7/16/2010
Location
USA
LoudLove 9/15/2010 3:31pm
9/15/2010 3:31pm
If there's a new way
I'll be the first in line
But it better work this time...
Rooster
Profile picture for user Rooster
Posts
4432
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Edmonton, CA
Rooster 9/15/2010 4:01pm
9/15/2010 4:01pm Edited Date/Time 9/15/2010 4:03pm
jasonward73 wrote:
So I received my explanation of benefits for my recent clavicle surgery... I almost fell over at how much the Dr. and the hospital charged. Keep...
So I received my explanation of benefits for my recent clavicle surgery... I almost fell over at how much the Dr. and the hospital charged. Keep in mind this doesn't include the anesthesiologist's bill. That bill has yet to arrive.



Total charge = $28,000!



The negotiated amount allowed by Blue Cross Blue Shield was almost $7000.



So if you are one of this out there who thinks having health insurance is an option when riding moto you might want to think again. This was really eye opening.







How much do you want to bet that the insurance company will now renegotiate that bill down to the price you were quoted for the uninsured price?



$650 is a pretty good price though. If you wanted to get a MRI scan here and bypass any possible wait you'd be looking at about $900. Or you could wait and it's fully covered. Wait times are dependent on your condition. It's a triage system so if you're ambulatory you can wait awhile while those with more urgent needs get them right away. It's getting better though as more and more MRI machines are installed up here.



Edit: WTF? How did the original post appear in the quote?
PC
Profile picture for user PC
Posts
480
Joined
8/24/2009
Location
USA
PC 9/15/2010 4:03pm
9/15/2010 4:03pm Edited Date/Time 9/15/2010 4:33pm
Went to the ER last Wednesday (St. Vincents Medical Center) with a broken fib.




Got there around 9pm, sat in waiting room for an hour and then in a triage room for another hour. Finally got an xray and 2 percocets after the xray verified I was hurting. Gave me a soft splint and kicked me out around midnight.



Total charges for 2 hours of waiting, 30 minutes of xrays and 30 minutes of wasting my time $2137.75.



xray = $167.50

ER services = $845.75

Self administerable medication = $39.50

Professional Fee Emergency = $1085.00





I used to work for a major HMO/PPO paying Dr's claims. Terrible, terrible industry.



ns503
Profile picture for user ns503
Posts
4614
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
NS Toolies, CA
ns503 9/15/2010 4:18pm
9/15/2010 4:18pm
Seems to me the US of A needs to self-insure their health care and get rid of the insurance companies.

That's only an outsiders point of view, BTW.

Sure seems messed up though...

The Shop

See All »
drmarkr
Profile picture for user drmarkr
Posts
3226
Joined
8/21/2006
Location
Tucson, AZ, USA
drmarkr 9/15/2010 4:50pm
9/15/2010 4:50pm
Billed charges mean nothing. Nothing. They're inflated because for years the government (Medicare) and some insurers paid a percent of billed charges. They stay this high because the PPS (DRG's) are based on the "average costs" of a given diagnosis in a given geography.

In almost all cases, if you're a non-insured, cash customer, you pay as low a rate as any of the big insurers have negotiated. So you collarbone surgery would've cost you $7000 plus a few hundred in anesthesia fee's.

And, just to really mess with your mind, you do realize that in most cases, clavicle fx's heal just fine without surgery? If you were paying out of YOUR pocket, and the doctor told you you could wear a sling for a few weeks, and stay off your bike for 8-10 weeks, and pay $500, versus surgery, and ride again in, say, 6 weeks and pay $7000, what would you do?????
MX7MX
Profile picture for user MX7MX
Posts
845
Joined
8/28/2007
Location
USA
MX7MX 9/15/2010 4:53pm
9/15/2010 4:53pm
Really guys? Seriously? I fractured my right kidney and spent 3 days in the hospital. No surgery, just meds CT scans and pain meds. Cost was $31,000!
Ashleymx
Profile picture for user Ashleymx
Posts
694
Joined
8/12/2008
Location
Cumming, GA, USA
Ashleymx 9/15/2010 5:00pm
9/15/2010 5:00pm
Scary and that's why I've never ridden a dirt bike in the USA. I've raced and ridden dirt bikes here in Australia for 30 years and never seen a bill. Even the ambulance rides where covered by a $30 a year premium.

We pay around $500 a year for a medicare levi I think when we pay our tax. I could pay more for private but the one time I needed surgery I paid cash upfront at a private hospital so I didn't have to wait for a public one and it was only $2000 with an overnight stay. Your all getting ripped of big time over there.

I might have to walk around in motocross gear next week at the MX of nations just incase a rock hits me or I trip over lol
drmarkr
Profile picture for user drmarkr
Posts
3226
Joined
8/21/2006
Location
Tucson, AZ, USA
drmarkr 9/15/2010 5:04pm
9/15/2010 5:04pm
FreshTopEnd wrote:
I think I've got you guys beat. Apologies for doing my part to skew the pool and raise rates.
Har! You're definitely an outlier.....we carry reinsurance just for cases like yours Michael. So you're not really affecting rates, at all.

I don't have the time or energy to explain this one.....
2TYam27
Profile picture for user 2TYam27
Posts
102
Joined
9/28/2009
Location
Weatherford, TX, USA
2TYam27 9/15/2010 5:21pm
9/15/2010 5:21pm
txmxer wrote:
Had both knees scoped this year. I'm out of pocket the full allowable amount ($4500) plus co-pays. Sucks massively. They billed $30,000+ for the surgery and...
Had both knees scoped this year. I'm out of pocket the full allowable amount ($4500) plus co-pays. Sucks massively.

They billed $30,000+ for the surgery and the negotiated rate was about $7,000. That's a system in need of being fixed IMO.
pie8man wrote:
The $23,000 the hospital did not collect, they get to claim that as lost revenue and write it off, no taxes paid after making piles of...
The $23,000 the hospital did not collect, they get to claim that as lost revenue and write it off, no taxes paid after making piles of money but still taking a loss every year.
Sparkalounger wrote:
please explain how a company can "write off" monies not collected.
A company can only write off (deduct) uncollectible income if it is or has been claimed as income. All expenses incurred (supplies, utilities, etc....) to produce the income is deductible regardless of whether the income is collected.
Sparkalounger
Profile picture for user Sparkalounger
Posts
1677
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Minneapolis, MN, USA
Sparkalounger 9/15/2010 5:31pm
9/15/2010 5:31pm
how can you claim money as income if it is not received (collected)?
It is currently my understanding that you can not write off uncollectible income.
DrSweden
Profile picture for user DrSweden
Posts
6761
Joined
8/30/2008
Location
Stockholm, SE
DrSweden 9/15/2010 5:31pm
9/15/2010 5:31pm
Sparkalounger wrote:
right back at ya Doc... ever since you came over you've been spewing crap about our country... FYI, I HATE all insurance. The guy talking about...
right back at ya Doc... ever since you came over you've been spewing crap about our country...

FYI, I HATE all insurance. The guy talking about paying $65. per week out of his check for past medical bills... I pay $200. per week for insurance.

I concede that health is needed but am slowly getting rid of the rest... cars, trucks, equipment... i'll take the hits as they come.

I'de rather save the money myself than give it to them... theres a reason why they make money in that business.
I understand from your angle that it might come out as being a critique (what I consider myself) equals "hate" (for you), but if you knew european culture a bit more you would then understand that being a critique is often something good. You will not be popular or a likable person, but often the dissidents makes stuff to evolve (I'm not saying I'm one of those). We need people with different views to make the right decisions and many times its just that person you should listen to (I have become a bit more humble because people like you read hate in my words, I got tons of hate mails during the MT times). So I learnd from the dissidents you might say. Also our history in Europe is colored by governmental and religious abuse which lead to several revolutions and constant alert from the masses that people in power have a tendency to be abusive. It can be painful for the "victim" being criticized but the door swings both directions. My view though is that the strong emotions attached to being questioned is also of personal issue. If I for an example reacted nuclear on your ass with personal insults, PMs, meltdown etc what would that signal? Good or bad self esteem?

Honestly I like USA a lot, always did, recently I have gained have gained strong positive emotions towards New England and it's habitants (all my new best friends are Americans) and part of me wants to stay here for ever, but part of me don't want to stay and your health care system is the mean reason which is actually hearth breaking for me and I feel sorry for you people that suffer in vane (my opinion). It's like meeting that "perfect" girl that has bad breath.

I'm sorry I insulted you? But my view is that you where a bit crappy towards Rooster very personal and informative writing.

Carry on!
2TYam27
Profile picture for user 2TYam27
Posts
102
Joined
9/28/2009
Location
Weatherford, TX, USA
2TYam27 9/15/2010 5:33pm
9/15/2010 5:33pm
jasonward73 wrote:
So I received my explanation of benefits for my recent clavicle surgery... I almost fell over at how much the Dr. and the hospital charged. Keep...
So I received my explanation of benefits for my recent clavicle surgery... I almost fell over at how much the Dr. and the hospital charged. Keep in mind this doesn't include the anesthesiologist's bill. That bill has yet to arrive.



Total charge = $28,000!



The negotiated amount allowed by Blue Cross Blue Shield was almost $7000.



So if you are one of this out there who thinks having health insurance is an option when riding moto you might want to think again. This was really eye opening.







"employees will have to count the cost of their insurance as salary-and pay taxes on it"

I am not for the health care reform, as currently planned, but we will not have to pay tax on the cost of the insurance. It will be reported on our W-2s so the IRS can verify that the employer is providing insurance, but we will not be taxed on this amount.

Sparkalounger
Profile picture for user Sparkalounger
Posts
1677
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Minneapolis, MN, USA
Sparkalounger 9/15/2010 5:44pm
9/15/2010 5:44pm
DrSweden wrote:
I understand from your angle that it might come out as being a critique (what I consider myself) equals "hate" (for you), but if you knew...
I understand from your angle that it might come out as being a critique (what I consider myself) equals "hate" (for you), but if you knew european culture a bit more you would then understand that being a critique is often something good. You will not be popular or a likable person, but often the dissidents makes stuff to evolve (I'm not saying I'm one of those). We need people with different views to make the right decisions and many times its just that person you should listen to (I have become a bit more humble because people like you read hate in my words, I got tons of hate mails during the MT times). So I learnd from the dissidents you might say. Also our history in Europe is colored by governmental and religious abuse which lead to several revolutions and constant alert from the masses that people in power have a tendency to be abusive. It can be painful for the "victim" being criticized but the door swings both directions. My view though is that the strong emotions attached to being questioned is also of personal issue. If I for an example reacted nuclear on your ass with personal insults, PMs, meltdown etc what would that signal? Good or bad self esteem?

Honestly I like USA a lot, always did, recently I have gained have gained strong positive emotions towards New England and it's habitants (all my new best friends are Americans) and part of me wants to stay here for ever, but part of me don't want to stay and your health care system is the mean reason which is actually hearth breaking for me and I feel sorry for you people that suffer in vane (my opinion). It's like meeting that "perfect" girl that has bad breath.

I'm sorry I insulted you? But my view is that you where a bit crappy towards Rooster very personal and informative writing.

Carry on!
fair enough and your right, i could have come across better towards Rooster.
As long as everyone realizes you "PM, meltdown" statement you just made was just an example and doesn't think that I actually acted that way...
2TYam27
Profile picture for user 2TYam27
Posts
102
Joined
9/28/2009
Location
Weatherford, TX, USA
2TYam27 9/15/2010 5:47pm
9/15/2010 5:47pm Edited Date/Time 9/15/2010 5:49pm
Sparkalounger wrote:
how can you claim money as income if it is not received (collected)?
It is currently my understanding that you can not write off uncollectible income.
It is the difference between the accrual and cash basis of accounting. A company can choose whether to report income on the cash or accrual basis. Under the accrual method, you claim income when earned (whether received or not) and deduct expenses when incurred (whether paid or not). If I claim income in 2010 that was not received, and determine in 2011 that I will never receive it, I willl deduct it in 2011 as bad debt. Thats fair because, in 2010, I paid tax on income I did not receive. Under the cash method, you claim income when received and deduct expenses when paid. Under the cash method, I would have never claimed the 2010 income mentioned above as income so I get no deduction except for expenses incurred to produce the income which I would have deducted in 2010. Hope that helps!
Sparkalounger
Profile picture for user Sparkalounger
Posts
1677
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Minneapolis, MN, USA
Sparkalounger 9/15/2010 5:52pm
9/15/2010 5:52pm
yes it does, thank you.
So in essence though, there is no "great write off", because all your doing is asking for a tax money back that you already paid in and didn't need to, one would not be gaining anything from this.... correct?
If not feel free to PM as to not bore anyone else here... Smile
2TYam27
Profile picture for user 2TYam27
Posts
102
Joined
9/28/2009
Location
Weatherford, TX, USA
2TYam27 9/15/2010 5:54pm
9/15/2010 5:54pm
Sparkalounger wrote:
yes it does, thank you. So in essence though, there is no "great write off", because all your doing is asking for a tax money back...
yes it does, thank you.
So in essence though, there is no "great write off", because all your doing is asking for a tax money back that you already paid in and didn't need to, one would not be gaining anything from this.... correct?
If not feel free to PM as to not bore anyone else here... Smile
Correct.
LoudLove
Profile picture for user LoudLove
Posts
2954
Joined
7/16/2010
Location
USA
LoudLove 9/15/2010 6:33pm
9/15/2010 6:33pm
I guess when you look at the "big picture", each country has its advantages and disadvantages. Socialized medical programs have lower average cost, but everyone pays via taxation. In the US, you can opt for the medical program that fits your needs & budget. However, if you race/ride MX, it pays dividends to pay a little more today than a lot later (re: my humerus/shoulder surgery of $58K and cost me $200, but I pay nearly $500 per month for my family's medical coverage. And it's worth every penny.)

Canada and other nations have outstanding health care programs, but the vast majority of medical R&D takes place in the US, so the rest of the world reaps the benefits w/o the massive capital investment. Plus it's tough to compare "apples to apples" when one nation has 10M residents (Sweden) and the other has $300M+ (US), with a significant portion living at poverty levels and/or over the age of 70. Which is why the US still has the largest social medical program in the world (medicare/medicade/uninsured coverage & write off).

Plus the US might be the most litigious society on the planet, which drives cost and insurance upward (FTE excluded). Man, that Canada place is starting to sound more appealing! If I could only afford to live in Toronto or Vancouver...
Ashleymx
Profile picture for user Ashleymx
Posts
694
Joined
8/12/2008
Location
Cumming, GA, USA
Ashleymx 9/15/2010 7:11pm
9/15/2010 7:11pm Edited Date/Time 9/15/2010 7:15pm
LoudLove wrote:
I guess when you look at the "big picture", each country has its advantages and disadvantages. Socialized medical programs have lower average cost, but everyone pays...
I guess when you look at the "big picture", each country has its advantages and disadvantages. Socialized medical programs have lower average cost, but everyone pays via taxation. In the US, you can opt for the medical program that fits your needs & budget. However, if you race/ride MX, it pays dividends to pay a little more today than a lot later (re: my humerus/shoulder surgery of $58K and cost me $200, but I pay nearly $500 per month for my family's medical coverage. And it's worth every penny.)

Canada and other nations have outstanding health care programs, but the vast majority of medical R&D takes place in the US, so the rest of the world reaps the benefits w/o the massive capital investment. Plus it's tough to compare "apples to apples" when one nation has 10M residents (Sweden) and the other has $300M+ (US), with a significant portion living at poverty levels and/or over the age of 70. Which is why the US still has the largest social medical program in the world (medicare/medicade/uninsured coverage & write off).

Plus the US might be the most litigious society on the planet, which drives cost and insurance upward (FTE excluded). Man, that Canada place is starting to sound more appealing! If I could only afford to live in Toronto or Vancouver...
Insurance is just like gambling really. $500 a month for 30 years = $180 000. Your surgery cost $58 000. It could pay off one day and its for your whole family but its still a gamble. If you race motocross the odds are more against you too.



I typically hate insurance. Theoretically everyone would be better off putting there monthly premiums into a fixed long term account. You'd be earning interest and if 30 years down the track you get a $100 000 bill your still have $80 000 in the bank + interest lol. It requires too much discipline though. You'de also be spending your own money thus be more likely to shop around for the best quote. That would create competition and ultimately bring prices down too. (If everyone did it)



Unfortunately insurance is a rip off because everyone doesn't have it and the medical industry's ripping insurance company's off which makes the problem worse again.

Pit Row

See All »
crewshin
Profile picture for user crewshin
Posts
362
Joined
3/30/2009
Location
LA, CA, USA
crewshin 9/15/2010 7:26pm
9/15/2010 7:26pm
IceMan446 wrote:
Was in the hospital for over 3 months, had four surgeries in all along with physical therapy all of it totaling over 400K. I paid 70...
Was in the hospital for over 3 months, had four surgeries in all along with physical therapy all of it totaling over 400K. I paid 70 dollars out of pocket 35 for and ER copay an 35 for an xray copay.

Also broke my arm had a plate and six screws put in and a rod cost my insurance 102K and cost me an ER copay.

My insurance is excellent and I would recommend insurance to any one even if you don't ride. I have crohns disease and had to have emergency surgery and needed a resection of my small intestine. Shit came out of the blue and I could not imagine having no insurance and having to cover those bills even if its just a portion. Things can come up out of now where and cost you for the rest of your life.
What insurance do you have?

My main problem with looking for insurance is that it's damn hard to know exactly which ones are good and which are bad.
FreshTopEnd
Profile picture for user FreshTopEnd
Posts
13311
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Sacramento, CA, USA
FreshTopEnd 9/15/2010 7:52pm
9/15/2010 7:52pm
FreshTopEnd wrote:
I think I've got you guys beat. Apologies for doing my part to skew the pool and raise rates.
drmarkr wrote:
Har! You're definitely an outlier.....we carry reinsurance just for cases like yours Michael. So you're not really affecting rates, at all. I don't have the time...
Har! You're definitely an outlier.....we carry reinsurance just for cases like yours Michael. So you're not really affecting rates, at all.

I don't have the time or energy to explain this one.....
I recall the hospital bill (w/o doctor billing) was around $185,000 for the first 4-5 days. Then weekly outpatient heart caths for the first couple months, then bi weekly then monthly, then bi monthly until annual after a couple years, all at about $25,000 a pop.

Plus meds costing about $1,500 a month forever.

Yikes.
IceMan446
Profile picture for user IceMan446
Posts
4676
Joined
1/10/2010
Location
Sacramento, CA, USA
IceMan446 9/15/2010 7:56pm
9/15/2010 7:56pm
IceMan446 wrote:
Was in the hospital for over 3 months, had four surgeries in all along with physical therapy all of it totaling over 400K. I paid 70...
Was in the hospital for over 3 months, had four surgeries in all along with physical therapy all of it totaling over 400K. I paid 70 dollars out of pocket 35 for and ER copay an 35 for an xray copay.

Also broke my arm had a plate and six screws put in and a rod cost my insurance 102K and cost me an ER copay.

My insurance is excellent and I would recommend insurance to any one even if you don't ride. I have crohns disease and had to have emergency surgery and needed a resection of my small intestine. Shit came out of the blue and I could not imagine having no insurance and having to cover those bills even if its just a portion. Things can come up out of now where and cost you for the rest of your life.
crewshin wrote:
What insurance do you have? My main problem with looking for insurance is that it's damn hard to know exactly which ones are good and which...
What insurance do you have?

My main problem with looking for insurance is that it's damn hard to know exactly which ones are good and which are bad.
I have healthnet insurance. I work for law enforcement so my insurance is paid completely. The people that were hired later then I was only pay 50 a month which is really good. Not sure how much healthnet would cost out of pocket with out an employer contribution.

I know bluecross offers a cheaper plan for people paying out of pocket.
DrSweden
Profile picture for user DrSweden
Posts
6761
Joined
8/30/2008
Location
Stockholm, SE
DrSweden 9/15/2010 8:16pm
9/15/2010 8:16pm
Sparkalounger wrote:
fair enough and your right, i could have come across better towards Rooster. As long as everyone realizes you "PM, meltdown" statement you just made was...
fair enough and your right, i could have come across better towards Rooster.
As long as everyone realizes you "PM, meltdown" statement you just made was just an example and doesn't think that I actually acted that way...
Of course not. I was exaggerating dramatically to make my point. You show no tendency of forum madness to me.

You can actually be correct in your assumption that I have been a piss-ant lately? Still I don't feel any anger towards America or Americans? I also think I took Pourcels lost pretty good? Huh

Honestly the little hate I have left in my body (I used to hate much more when I was younger) is focused very narrowly towards psychopaths that find pleasure in hurting people and animals...Angry

Peace! Wink
mxxer126
Profile picture for user mxxer126
Posts
23
Joined
9/15/2010
Location
USA
mxxer126 9/15/2010 8:43pm
9/15/2010 8:43pm
Rooster wrote:
I spent over 3 months in 3 different hospitals when I lacerated my liver and did some other internal damage (severed inferior vena cava, destroyed an...
I spent over 3 months in 3 different hospitals when I lacerated my liver and did some other internal damage (severed inferior vena cava, destroyed an adrenal gland, head trauma, etc.)

Total out of pocket expenses was under $1000 and that included a couple of ambulance rides and a flight from Kamloops to Vancouver.

I spent 20 hours under the knife for two surgeries and had well over 100 different tests and procedures (radiated, endoscoped, CT scans, poked, prodded, etc.) while they planned out how they were going to rebuild my bile duct system and reconnect my liver to the rest of my body. Then there was the in-home nursing care provided afterward to keep tabs on my condition as I recovered. The operating theater was filled to capacity during my last surgery that took 14.5 hours with a variety of different specialists contributing and students observing what at the time was a ground breaking procedure.

If you think that our health care system is inferior to that in the US keep this in mind. I had to put a young rider in contact with my specialist this summer as he suffered the same injuries as I did and has been suffering for nearly 5 years without corrective treatment. The hospitals in Seattle said they could do nothing for him anymore. After discussing it with my specialist and having him consult with the mayo clinic, he's finally getting the proper surgeries done to correct what should been corrected 5 years ago. If somebody hadn't mentioned his injuries on this board I would have never known and his family would have just accepted that this was something he would have to live with for the rest of his life.

It took that and the help of the rider down foundation to bring about a solution to this poor kid's problem. I don't know if it was an insurance issue or if my Canadian doctor knew more 20+ years ago than the doctors in Seattle do today. Probably some combination of the two I would expect. I'm sure the cost factored into their decision to do nothing at some point. Something my doctor wouldn't have had to consider.

If you guys are so completely opposed to a state run health care system like the rest of the developed world has, then you reap what you sow. It works and provides quality health care at a very affordable price. I'm sure I'll get tossed under the bus for saying this and some idiot who's never used our system will dredge up some article about how somebody had to wait a little bit to get care in Canada. So be it. I wouldn't trade the cost or the quality of care our system provides for yours in a million years. It's not like I waited 5 years and was EVER told nothing more could be done. The thought of my life being in the hands of some insurance company and it's profit/loss calculations is just downright scary. Same goes with what my out of pocket costs would have been even with good insurance in your country.

If my story isn't enough to give you pause to think, then consider that my mother who's a 10+ year cancer survivor has the same great things to say about our system. She was diagnosed with cancer in both breasts and her cervix all at the same time. Not once was her health ever in jeopardy due to wait times or quality of care. She's now cancer free and healthy as a horse. We also have no worries whatsoever about ever being denied coverage due to a pre-existing condition in Canada. What kind of a care system excludes those most in need anyhow? That's just brutal!
What kind of problem did you have with your bile duct? Can you PM me with more info? Thanks.
Hank_Thrill
Profile picture for user Hank_Thrill
Posts
4661
Joined
9/22/2008
Location
Arlen, TX, USA
Hank_Thrill 9/15/2010 8:47pm
9/15/2010 8:47pm

Anyone ever stop and think why America doesn't have nationalized healthcare like every other industrialized nation on the planet?

We're have the most profitable health care system in the world!

USA! USA! USA!
Hank_Thrill
Profile picture for user Hank_Thrill
Posts
4661
Joined
9/22/2008
Location
Arlen, TX, USA
Hank_Thrill 9/15/2010 8:53pm
9/15/2010 8:53pm Edited Date/Time 9/15/2010 9:21pm
What's better, paying slightly higher taxes?



Or $150,000 dollars over the span of 30 years in insurance?



American's got close to having a nationalized healthcare option last time a round, but the owners of this country spent 1.4 million dollars, per-day, lobbying politicians so "we the people" will end up putting more money in their pockets.
ando
Profile picture for user ando
Posts
4544
Joined
8/20/2009
Location
Perth, AU
ando 9/15/2010 9:03pm
9/15/2010 9:03pm
I think what you guys in the US are actually describing is a user-pays system.

By definition insurance is the practice of spreading risk over a large group, with the expectation that most won't need to be paid out, but they will cover the ones that do.

If you start assessing risk individually that's not insurance anymore.
Lightning78
Profile picture for user Lightning78
Posts
6353
Joined
12/12/2007
Location
Huntington Beach, CA, USA
Lightning78 9/15/2010 9:29pm
9/15/2010 9:29pm
jasonward73 wrote:
Yep, so far I'm out of pocket $600.

Wish I had your insurance.....My Blue Cross PPO premium is 212 a month and when I see my DR for a checkup on my back it costs $69 CASH FOR THE VISIT. When I go through my insurance I get a bill for $60 to cover MY PORTION ....hmmm 212 a month and 60 even after using insurance doesnt strike me as a good deal. Even when I broke my back in 3 places, my sternum in half, dislocated shoulder and internal bleeding with a weekend stay at the Hospital totaled 30k I had to spend out of pocket over 4,000 to cover the expenses ....that was the only good instance of having insurance I have ever experienced in 10 years!

Had a kickstarter go into my calf starting my 250f required 4 stitches (yes I was wearing boots but in shorts and it went in directly above where the boot stops) I ended having to pay out $500 of a $1200 bill.......These health insurance companies are RAPING the public and I am steamed about it....now bec of the health care bill the health ins cost of doing business went up 3% ....guess what? Those friggin bastards on average raised their premiums 17% to cover the 3% cost increase of doing business, why the extra 14%....why? because they can!......The health care bill was designed to break up or "Trust bust" these colluding bastards!!! ....Something needs to be done about this rampant stealing the health ins companies are doling out to the American public.

Funny how since 2002 EVEN in this massive recession the 3 big health ins companies profits went up 425%!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. I know I am paying more than ever for coverage and "co-pays" so much that I avoid any dr visits unless I am almost on my death bed. Think thats not going to hurt Dr's down the road? It will catch up with them too.....Anyone had a insurance adjuster come in while you or a family member were in the hospital and the adjuster made a Dr's decision to limit coverage as if they are some kind of fucking expert?!!??!! That is a decision to be made by a Dr not an Insurance adjuster that isnt at all worried about the individual on the hospital bed but rather their bottom line! It is ridiculous. Just wait for the one wrong move an adjuster makes to limit coverage and it ends up causing death ....once they get sued and the plaintiff wins a judgement against the insurance companies the flood gates will open due to the case taking presidence and allowing for future judgements in favor of the plaintiff.....its bound to happen.

Didnt used to be that way and thats why these bastards need to be slapped with a little regulation and be busted up so that competition can come into the marketplace and not be bought out or run out of business because the health ins companies dont want competition so they skyrocket premiums and drastically pull back their coverage so we are paying for almost NOTHING.....Did a little math and aside from a horrendous accident worse than mine its cheaper for me to have no insurance and pay cash for Dr/hospital visitis and prescriptions ...... I would end up paying over $2500 a year for minimal coverage and co-pay of 750 with me having to pay out of pocket $000 before I get 100% coverage!!! Thats almost $10,000 out of my pocket for health insurance if you actually have to use it.

I cant remember other than 09 when I even came close to using even 10% of the premium I pay that makes it remotely beneficial .....To me this health ins thing is sickening and god forbid you get denied due to pre existing conditions ...I was denied coverage by Blue Shield a while back simply because I was prescribed Zanex to help me sleep better, no serious medical condition at all just used them to help me sleep at night and for me it works dam good, Blue Shield pulled my coverage and called that a pre existing condition and said I could not obtain coverage no matter how much I was willing to pay for ONE CALENDAR YEAR!!!! All for ONE prescription of zanex the Dr wanted to try and see if it would help me sleep better.

Be very afraid when medical records go digital with worldwide access the purpose is said it would be better for a Dr to have access to ALL of your medical history in case of a f-up.....I think for the Dr's its a good idea but Insurance companies will have access to it too and in the future your medical records will be judged just like your driving record and auto insurance....I.E. You will get a higher rate because of your history and can be denied insurance just like cars for having a few black eyes on your record and god forbid they find out you ride dirtbikes then what will happen? No more riding if you want to have health insurance?......The information will be used more for the advantage of the health ins companies to minimize risk and maximize profits even at the expense, recreation and health of their members. IMO the health ins companies are getting too big and are way too much on charge of our lives already just think what will happen in a few years once things go digital
Lightning78
Profile picture for user Lightning78
Posts
6353
Joined
12/12/2007
Location
Huntington Beach, CA, USA
Lightning78 9/15/2010 9:35pm
9/15/2010 9:35pm
Yes I know its a long rant but it is serious stuff that we as dirtbike riders need to be very aware of for the future of our sport and our own personal enjoyment of riding bikes ourselves. ..... Please at least keep this in the back of your minds as things go digital it will do more harm than good. Once your record is marked for whatever the DR or Hospital visit is for, it will be there for life and health insurance companies will punish you for it so over time you ACTUALLY END UP PAYING BACK ALL THEY COVERED with raised premiums.....they will forecast it out and raise your premium to get the money they had to spend saving your life.....go somewhere else and you will be denied coverage or pay through the nose because of your "pre existing condition".....Just a warning of what may come.
ando
Profile picture for user ando
Posts
4544
Joined
8/20/2009
Location
Perth, AU
ando 9/15/2010 9:39pm
9/15/2010 9:39pm
Ashleymx wrote:
Scary and that's why I've never ridden a dirt bike in the USA. I've raced and ridden dirt bikes here in Australia for 30 years and...
Scary and that's why I've never ridden a dirt bike in the USA. I've raced and ridden dirt bikes here in Australia for 30 years and never seen a bill. Even the ambulance rides where covered by a $30 a year premium.

We pay around $500 a year for a medicare levi I think when we pay our tax. I could pay more for private but the one time I needed surgery I paid cash upfront at a private hospital so I didn't have to wait for a public one and it was only $2000 with an overnight stay. Your all getting ripped of big time over there.

I might have to walk around in motocross gear next week at the MX of nations just incase a rock hits me or I trip over lol
Just make sure your travel insurance has enough coverage for US medical expenses.

If you've shopped around online for travel insurance you might have noticed that most providers specifically ask if you will be travelling to the US or not.
DanDunes818 9/15/2010 9:43pm
9/15/2010 9:43pm Edited Date/Time 9/15/2010 9:45pm
Hate to admit it but I raced seriously without insurance for about 5 straight years once back in the 90's. I was yound and pretty damn dumb at the time. I don't know if this would still work but it probably would. I went on a bad luck streak where I was getting hurt allot.. This was while I was becoming a fast B rider and the growing pains at that point for me were a plenty. Someone told me just don't have ID when you get in the emergency room. Numerous times when I got hurt I'd obviously have my gear on. In gear there's no pockets to hold ID so I'd just say I didn't have it and make up a identity. Did it numerous times and it always worked. The wife and I would just agree on a name on the way to the hospital and stick to it. Once when I broke my collarbone I told them my name was so and so. Got all the ER treatment. They had shot me up w/demeral and when it came time to sign the release paper work I signed my real name. I was so nervous but nobody ever noticed I guess. lol Obviously you're not getting surgery or any real treatment without ID but I always got taken care of that day and usually you can get most the treatment you need in ER. I even went back for a few follow up visits under those aliases. Broken Collarbone, broken ribs, Broken Wrist.. All free. If there's any industry I have no problem with scamming it's the medical field.

Post a reply to: If you don't think health insurance is necessary....