Why are 2 strokes available in Europe?

Void Main
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Void Main 9/14/2010 5:09am
9/14/2010 5:09am
GIwasB4 wrote:
RM250
You can but the dealers don't make it easy (except for KTM, Husky, and GasGas). I haven't seen a YZ250 on the floor of any of the local Yamaha dealers in years. Honda, Suzuki, and Kawasaki haven't sold 2-strokes >80cc at all for the last few years but none of this should be news to anyone here.
ns503
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ns503 9/14/2010 5:22am
9/14/2010 5:22am Edited Date/Time 9/14/2010 5:23am
What was that big shiney Yamaha ad about then that had those 2 strokes in it? Saw it in a mag lately somewhere?

OK, pg.125 of my October RX - four 2 strokes: 85, 125, 144 & 250. Are they stringing a line of major proportions or what?

And with all the 2 stroke noise in this place, KTM Husky & GasGas should be selling all they make...
Justin314
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Justin314 9/14/2010 5:23am
9/14/2010 5:23am Edited Date/Time 9/14/2010 5:29am
mmcmx wrote:
The KTM is already way better than any other 2 stroke. Shame they're still with PDS in '11. Don't know If i'll wait another year or...
The KTM is already way better than any other 2 stroke. Shame they're still with PDS in '11. Don't know If i'll wait another year or what.
To be honest, I cannot feel a difference between the PDS that is available now and linkage-type rear suspension. Ive been on Yamahas since I started riding in 2002 (125 and did the 250F thing for a couple years), and switched to a 2010 250SX when they came out. In fact, I kind of like the PDS...easier maintenance. It had a stinkbug feel in earlier years, but I think KTM has gotten it pretty fine tuned and would go as far as to say they dont need a link. Thats just my opinion though.
jmar
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jmar 9/14/2010 5:26am
9/14/2010 5:26am
jmar wrote:
That's $5600 and some change.

I would bet you could ship the thing for less than a grand.
TerryK wrote:
$6773.12
Are you sure on that number?

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adamdf
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adamdf 9/14/2010 6:44am
9/14/2010 6:44am
adamdf wrote:
Pretty sure you guys can buy a 2011 KTM for the price of the bikes over there....
GIwasB4 wrote:
I was never a european bike person. (no KTM, Husky, TM)
Let RD run the race team for a year or two and I might be.
OMG, did you just say that?

Have you ever ridden a KTM? I wouldn't tell you to go get a TM or a Husky, because i haven't ridden those and to be honest they aren't as heavily invested in moto as KTM is....

And what does RD running the race team have to do with us?

Anyway, KTM works very hard to produce some of the best bikes out there, i guarantee that if you rode one you would love it, i'm only hearing great things about the new 250SX, i haven't been able to ride one, but if i was buying 2 stroke i would be a fool to not buy that one, its clearly the one with the most development available today, closely followed by the YZ...

Regis just bought one of the 2011 KTMs, he seems to be raving about it, if you are there Regis, chime in and let these guys know whats up
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KGAspeed 9/14/2010 7:40am
9/14/2010 7:40am
mmcmx wrote:
The KTM is already way better than any other 2 stroke. Shame they're still with PDS in '11. Don't know If i'll wait another year or...
The KTM is already way better than any other 2 stroke. Shame they're still with PDS in '11. Don't know If i'll wait another year or what.
PDS suspension is not the weak link everyone thinks it is. At all.

I've ridden them for quite a while and a buddy of mine is a top local A motocrosser in IL - he said his KTM 250SX is the best bike he's ever had and would likely never ride a 450 again (Japanese or otherwise).
YellowZonker 9/14/2010 8:01am
9/14/2010 8:01am
I'm not sure where people are getting this "If the factories want to sell bikes, offer 2 strokes" bit. They did offer 2 strokes and nobody was buying them so they stopped producing them.
SCIENCE
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SCIENCE 9/14/2010 8:02am
9/14/2010 8:02am Edited Date/Time 9/14/2010 8:04am
adamdf wrote:
Pretty sure you guys can buy a 2011 KTM for the price of the bikes over there....
GIwasB4 wrote:
I was never a european bike person. (no KTM, Husky, TM)
Let RD run the race team for a year or two and I might be.
adamdf wrote:
OMG, did you just say that? Have you ever ridden a KTM? I wouldn't tell you to go get a TM or a Husky, because i...
OMG, did you just say that?

Have you ever ridden a KTM? I wouldn't tell you to go get a TM or a Husky, because i haven't ridden those and to be honest they aren't as heavily invested in moto as KTM is....

And what does RD running the race team have to do with us?

Anyway, KTM works very hard to produce some of the best bikes out there, i guarantee that if you rode one you would love it, i'm only hearing great things about the new 250SX, i haven't been able to ride one, but if i was buying 2 stroke i would be a fool to not buy that one, its clearly the one with the most development available today, closely followed by the YZ...

Regis just bought one of the 2011 KTMs, he seems to be raving about it, if you are there Regis, chime in and let these guys know whats up
Still riding my '07 YZ250. When it is time for a new bike I am def looking at the 250SX. Especially if Yami leaves the YZ the same. (as they have the past 6 years).

Suzuki is a mess of a company right now. They are so short sighted to not selling the '08 RM250 with BNG (as Yamaha does) in the states. There are so many RMZ's from the past few years sitting on dealer floors, killing the floor plan!
CR250Rider
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CR250Rider 9/14/2010 8:08am
9/14/2010 8:08am
not selling smokers in the US, but i thought Europe was way more environmentally advanced...?

300SX looks pretty damn good to me
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MX4EVR 9/14/2010 8:13am
9/14/2010 8:13am
GIwasB4 wrote:
RM250
Void Main wrote:
You can but the dealers don't make it easy (except for KTM, Husky, and GasGas). I haven't seen a YZ250 on the floor of any of...
You can but the dealers don't make it easy (except for KTM, Husky, and GasGas). I haven't seen a YZ250 on the floor of any of the local Yamaha dealers in years. Honda, Suzuki, and Kawasaki haven't sold 2-strokes >80cc at all for the last few years but none of this should be news to anyone here.
Just ordered a New 2011 YZ250! Sold my tractor last weekend and good riddens to that thing! call your dealer and put your order in and in a few weeks you'll be out smokin on the track and wont have time to get on here and argue bout why you dont want a motocross bike with dual overhead cam car engines that cost lots to maintain and lots to fix!
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motogrady 9/14/2010 8:14am
9/14/2010 8:14am
YellowZonker wrote:
I'm not sure where people are getting this "If the factories want to sell bikes, offer 2 strokes" bit. They did offer 2 strokes and nobody...
I'm not sure where people are getting this "If the factories want to sell bikes, offer 2 strokes" bit. They did offer 2 strokes and nobody was buying them so they stopped producing them.
They stopped putting factory guys on 2s.
They advertised the hell out of the 4s.
They changed the rules to favor the 4s.
They dropped the contingency money for the 2s.
They even went as far as starting their own series.

Yeah, they wanna sell bikes.
And they're doing their best to ram the ones they want to sell down our throats.

10 grand to run a dirt bike a season..........................that's a down payment on a house.
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Racer92 9/14/2010 8:17am
9/14/2010 8:17am
NP301 wrote:
Why don't you guys just get a ktm? Th tests were saying they were extremely close to the yamaha (which is better than the Rm )...
Why don't you guys just get a ktm? Th tests were saying they were extremely close to the yamaha (which is better than the Rm ) and what other two strokes are available in europe?
The YZ better than the RM? Mmmm, hmmmm, keep telling yourself that.

Stop drinking that Yamacross-Action kool-aid.
Bulldog
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Bulldog 9/14/2010 8:24am
9/14/2010 8:24am
"They did offer 2 strokes and nobody was buying them so they stopped producing them. "

This may be true in your area of the country but not inours. Our KTM and Yamaha dealers get rid of all their smokers. In 2009 in Virginia 2Ts made up 64% of the bikes raced in our area. In 2010 that number is up to 66%. Bucking the trend of being force feed 4Ts. There is a sea of Blue and Orange on the track. Even some new red/white bikes coming from Europe as making smoke locally.

What isn't very much is yellow and green. Go figure.
SCIENCE
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SCIENCE 9/14/2010 8:33am
9/14/2010 8:33am
GIwasB4 wrote:
RM250
Void Main wrote:
You can but the dealers don't make it easy (except for KTM, Husky, and GasGas). I haven't seen a YZ250 on the floor of any of...
You can but the dealers don't make it easy (except for KTM, Husky, and GasGas). I haven't seen a YZ250 on the floor of any of the local Yamaha dealers in years. Honda, Suzuki, and Kawasaki haven't sold 2-strokes >80cc at all for the last few years but none of this should be news to anyone here.
MX4EVR wrote:
Just ordered a New 2011 YZ250! Sold my tractor last weekend and good riddens to that thing! call your dealer and put your order in and...
Just ordered a New 2011 YZ250! Sold my tractor last weekend and good riddens to that thing! call your dealer and put your order in and in a few weeks you'll be out smokin on the track and wont have time to get on here and argue bout why you dont want a motocross bike with dual overhead cam car engines that cost lots to maintain and lots to fix!
Good deal. Did the same thing in '07 and haven't looked back. There are new 2 strokes out there, you just have to look. They don't stay on the floor very long if at all.
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Blake 9/14/2010 8:35am
9/14/2010 8:35am
Bulldog wrote:
Last week I called Suzuki to ask the question of "why not here"? Answer - emissions! That seems to be the standard answer rather than the...
Last week I called Suzuki to ask the question of "why not here"? Answer - emissions! That seems to be the standard answer rather than the truth. How can Yamaha and KTM sell all of their 2-Strokes? He told me that there are some days in California that they cannot ride 2-Strokes and the State tells them so. Really? I used to live out there on the left coast and was never ever denied a riding day! How do snowmobiles and outboard 2-stroke motors with EFI exceed emmision standards? Do you think they would learn something from that? I asked the gentleman to ask the OEMs to open their eyes and look outside California and see what the rest of the country wants. For that all I got was a "Thank you" for my time.



Suzuki - First they cut their contingency, then they cut their number of pro riders in their mx team, then they lost "The Man". What next? Bring back the RMs (2T) and finally sell some bikes. Keep the entry level machines to keep the sport alive. How can the average trail rider afford a $10K bike just for fun when, for another $3K you could buy a brand new 4 Door Suzuki SX4 and get better mileage and resale.
They arent living in the dinosaur age.

2 strokes have been proven to burn as clean or cleaner now.
4 strokes with big cams built for power scavenge a lot of raw fuel.

Thats why bikes like DRZ's are so detuned. And other Dual sports, come with the "Race Kit"

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FreshTopEnd 9/14/2010 10:30am
9/14/2010 10:30am
Bulldog wrote:
Last week I called Suzuki to ask the question of "why not here"? Answer - emissions! That seems to be the standard answer rather than the...
Last week I called Suzuki to ask the question of "why not here"? Answer - emissions! That seems to be the standard answer rather than the truth. How can Yamaha and KTM sell all of their 2-Strokes? He told me that there are some days in California that they cannot ride 2-Strokes and the State tells them so. Really? I used to live out there on the left coast and was never ever denied a riding day! How do snowmobiles and outboard 2-stroke motors with EFI exceed emmision standards? Do you think they would learn something from that? I asked the gentleman to ask the OEMs to open their eyes and look outside California and see what the rest of the country wants. For that all I got was a "Thank you" for my time.



Suzuki - First they cut their contingency, then they cut their number of pro riders in their mx team, then they lost "The Man". What next? Bring back the RMs (2T) and finally sell some bikes. Keep the entry level machines to keep the sport alive. How can the average trail rider afford a $10K bike just for fun when, for another $3K you could buy a brand new 4 Door Suzuki SX4 and get better mileage and resale.
He told me that there are some days in California that they cannot ride 2-Strokes and the State tells them so. Really? I used to live out there on the left coast and was never ever denied a riding day!

Well, all of their MX 4-strokes are red stickered, too, so will they stop selling them? The OHV parks don't allow red stickered bikes in the summer regardless of being two or four stroke, but in Nor Cal at least public lands for the most part are open year round for trail riding red or green stickered.
CR250Rider
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CR250Rider 9/14/2010 11:14am
9/14/2010 11:14am
hummm. So the environmental excuse is a lie????

OMG, say it ain't so!

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Mstock
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Mstock 9/14/2010 11:17am
9/14/2010 11:17am
The sport is to far gone for the local dealers to put their ass on the line and order 2 strokes. Call and ask them. They have moved on to selling lawn mowers, snow blowers and farm equipment quads.

As far as the Cali problem ever think about moving? Still legal but you better do it quick.
SCIENCE
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SCIENCE 9/14/2010 2:53pm
9/14/2010 2:53pm
Mstock wrote:
The sport is to far gone for the local dealers to put their ass on the line and order 2 strokes. Call and ask them. They...
The sport is to far gone for the local dealers to put their ass on the line and order 2 strokes. Call and ask them. They have moved on to selling lawn mowers, snow blowers and farm equipment quads.

As far as the Cali problem ever think about moving? Still legal but you better do it quick.
Agreed that to survive the dealers have to market more than bikes.. Don't think any dealer is putting his ass on the line selling what 2 strokes are still available. Most new YZ 2T's fly out the door. KTM s as well though they are more of an acquired taste. And the prices they are getting are getting up there. Where the dealers are losing is the floors and warehouses full of overpriced leftover and current year four strokes that the oems have shoved down their/our throats.
rmgsxr
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rmgsxr 9/14/2010 3:07pm
9/14/2010 3:07pm
GIwasB4 wrote:
Actually, yes
So you are saying that if I have a brand new 2008 untitled RM 250 you will give $8000 for it?
mx5471
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mx5471 9/14/2010 5:52pm
9/14/2010 5:52pm
If I could by a brand new rm 250 here,I'd buy another 2 of them. I bought one in '08.
Void Main
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Void Main 9/14/2010 6:03pm
9/14/2010 6:03pm
GIwasB4 wrote:
RM250
Void Main wrote:
You can but the dealers don't make it easy (except for KTM, Husky, and GasGas). I haven't seen a YZ250 on the floor of any of...
You can but the dealers don't make it easy (except for KTM, Husky, and GasGas). I haven't seen a YZ250 on the floor of any of the local Yamaha dealers in years. Honda, Suzuki, and Kawasaki haven't sold 2-strokes >80cc at all for the last few years but none of this should be news to anyone here.
MX4EVR wrote:
Just ordered a New 2011 YZ250! Sold my tractor last weekend and good riddens to that thing! call your dealer and put your order in and...
Just ordered a New 2011 YZ250! Sold my tractor last weekend and good riddens to that thing! call your dealer and put your order in and in a few weeks you'll be out smokin on the track and wont have time to get on here and argue bout why you dont want a motocross bike with dual overhead cam car engines that cost lots to maintain and lots to fix!
I've been on YZ250s for the last 10 years, never did go with a 4-stroke. I know you can order one but my point is you don't see them on the showroom floor, at least not in this area, and it sounds like not in your area. What that means is the average joe walking in the store looking for a bike and doesn't know any better says "hey, that's a pretty bike, I'll take that one".
DrSweden
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DrSweden 9/14/2010 6:15pm
9/14/2010 6:15pm
I don't see the problem really. You can buy new SX250 and YZ250 on Ebay at least twice a month. The YZ are often on sale as well...

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