Australia taxing unrealized gains

MPJC
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5/20/2025 8:05pm Edited Date/Time 5/20/2025 8:11pm

The only scenario where it makes sense to tax unrealized gains is if you’re borrowing and using the current fmv of an asset as security, and the fmv greatly exceeds cost. Then you at least have a basis for placing a value on the asset. For most securities and many other assets the fmv fluctuates so tracking gain and losses would be a nightmare if you’re taxing unrealized gains. 

My view is that capital gains shouldn’t be subject to tax unless the gain exceeds inflation. I’ve seen cases where someone sells property that’s been held for 50 years  and they have a big tax bill but when you look at the gain in relation to inflation, they didn’t actually make anything. If liquidating the asset today gives you less buying power than if you’d sold it 50 years ago, you’ve really made nothing but you’re being taxed nevertheless.

In Canada gains on your principle residence are exempt from tax, farmland (or shares in a farm company) is exempt up to $1.25M lifetime, and the inclusion rate is 50%. So half the gain is non-taxable and if a gain is realized in a corporation the corporation can pay a non-taxable dividend to the shareholders for the non-taxable portion. That’s all fairly sensible, in my view. 

The thing about investment income is that people generally invest after tax money. You’ve paid tax when you’ve earned it, you put away a portion of those tax paid earnings, and then you’re taxed again when there’s a return on investment. At least in Canada, since 2009 you can put up to $7K annually into a tax free savings account and the income is never taxed. Some people have 7 figures in their account. Canada gets a bad rap as a high tax jurisdiction (and it is, especially when you factor in sales taxes) but there are some nice policies here. 
 

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Sully
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5/20/2025 8:11pm Edited Date/Time 5/20/2025 8:12pm
Good question! A lot would need to be worked out and it would need to be gradually implemented properly. An easy start is that they pay...

Good question! A lot would need to be worked out and it would need to be gradually implemented properly. An easy start is that they pay a % of tax on all unrealized gains over a certain amount. So if your assets increase from 5 billion to 10 billion, you are taxed on 5 billion of that at 10% for a tax burden of 500 million. How do they pay it? One way is to close the loophole of taking out loans against your assets. Force them to actually sell the stock and then tax that gain then. That way billionaires can’t just hide their wealth and pay an effective tax rate of 3% while the rest of us are somewhere between 20-35%. The second way is to tax it when the wealth is transferred. When someone passes away and the wealth is passed down to their children, there’s a tax on that. Again only on wealth over a billion. The third is a bit more complex and would involve audits to see what other types of taxes they pay and what they’d need to be raised to. The fourth is essentially the forced reinvestment into the economy. So for instance instead of Bezos keeping his 300 billion in wealth and never paying taxes on it, he’s forced to put 30 billion (10%) back into the economy in some way in the next fiscal year.

I’m not saying it’s easy. I’m just saying that it’s absurd we say well that seems complex how would we do it?! Nah better to just continue down the path we are where the top fraction of 1% hold more power than they have in over 100 years. They control the entire ecosystem we live in. I personally don’t want to live in an oligarchy. Do you?

Sully wrote:

Keeping with the Bezos example, why do you think the government is more entitled to his money than he is?

It’s not about “entitlement”. It’s creating a more progressive tax system so we don’t end up in the Second Gilded Age, which many historians and economists...

It’s not about “entitlement”. It’s creating a more progressive tax system so we don’t end up in the Second Gilded Age, which many historians and economists argue we are already in. It gives the middle class more of a chance and keeps the billionaires from holding all the political and economic power in the country. And again, hundreds of billions in wealth. He wouldn’t even notice having that taxed, and it could feed multiple starving children. And I’d argue society is much better when children aren’t starving.

Who are you to say what he would or wouldn't notice? 

I agree about the starving children, but that's what charities are for. I'd rather choose where my money goes than to have it confiscated at gunpoint and used to pay for some bloated government program. During fiscal year 2024, the IRS collected more than $5.1 trillion in tax revenue. That'll feed a shit load of starving children, and yet...we still have starving children (and a gigantic national debt). 

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Bearuno
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5/20/2025 8:24pm
FastEddy wrote:

How much is  a Wild Dingo puppy going for these days down under?  

I'll ask the bloke that walks 2 of them around my neighbourhood, next time I see him. 😁

Seriously, such a fellow does exist.

And,  they get an enormous amount attention from all he meets with them. 

I think he has to have a special permit to have them / breed them. He is a member of some sort of Dingo preservation group.

Beautiful 'Dogs', by the way, and, his are the friendliest of Pups. 

But Wild ones - well, they are  Wild. Though, the half breeds that are so common in the BMs here behind me, are fuggin nasty things. Unlike pure Dingos, they Do Not shy away from Humans. 

 

The Shop

Titan1
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5/20/2025 8:48pm

So the tax amount would be on net worth increase?  Bezo’s net worth went from 200 Billion to 210 billion…he owes 10% (or whatever) of the $10 Billion net worth increase….do I understand that right?


Well, it has happened that a billionaires net worth has decreased significantly for various reasons…and they’ve lost billions of their net worth…do they get to show that as a loss?  And get a tax refund?  And then amortize that refund against future taxes due?


And if it is based on net worth increase….what would prevent them from just getting more loans against the increase…since net worth is assets minus liabilities…all they’d have to do to avoid paying taxes on unrealized gains would be to take out loans…so their stock value goes up 10 billion…if they get a loan for 10 billion, then their net worth didn’t go up 10 billion…maybe it went up nothing…and taxing unrealized gains does nothing?  

My point, besides this being just a plain stupid idea, and I haven’t thought it through completely yet, is that short of just outright taking their money (theft) it seems there will never be a way to close all the loop holes to the point that this asinine idea would actually work….


Anyway…I will never support ANY American giving this government any more of their money until the government can stop wasting it…this country has a spending problem, not a revenue problem…it has plenty of revenue…stop wasting it, stop the corruption, stop giving it to other countries, stop with the blatant fiscal irresponsibility…THEN…if it still needs more revenue, we can have a conversation about increasing anyone’s taxes…


Further, I can’t fathom why anyone thinks they are entitled to anyone else’s money, just because they “have” more money than them…you aren’t poor because the rich are hiding all the money…it’s not a zero sum game…everyone is free to earn as much wealth as they can create for themselves…and if someone isn’t creating wealth for themselves, stop blaming rich people and look in the mirror…

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Bearuno
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5/20/2025 8:55pm Edited Date/Time 5/20/2025 11:43pm
scott_nz wrote:
For the aussies in here , why do you think albo and labour won by so much ? Was it Dutton was uninspiring ? Or a...

For the aussies in here , why do you think albo and labour won by so much ? Was it Dutton was uninspiring ? Or a heap of people voting labour to keep the greens out ?  (Which happened here to an extent in 2020 )

Dutton, is, well, pick the pejorative, and, very much disliked by the majority of the Electorate - as shown by the result, and, he himself losing his seat.

I can't recall exactly the quote, but I saw something along the lines that a bloke - Albanese , and his Party - that was far from popular / liked, won against a bloke / Party,  that was largely despised, or something like that. 

Stupid s**t like His / Their Nuclear Power Plant idea, with No real, believable costing - well, no effort to show it - really didn't impress many. And, when the CSIRO disputes / discredits such a thing, well, people believe Them, rather than some Drongo. We've no need for that way of producing energy -  we have so many other options. We can happily sell sh*tloads of Uranium Yellow Cake to those that need it, though. That, I've no problem with - for many Countries, it's a viable / major way of producing the energy they need. 

Of note : yesterday the National Party, Coalition Partners of the Liberal Party, announced they would no longer be in Coalition with the Libs.

Now, I'm sure they'll still direct preferences when needed / team up with the Libs for power - it just seems to be a bit of a 'demonstration separation' to give them a bit of 'air' from the losers of the election, at least for a time.

I joined both Parties a few years ago - something frowned upon by both - for a short time, to get a better look at  Both parties workings / policies. It was quite enlightening / appalling from both the Libs and Labour. It was just a bit of an education for me - I hold no hard and fast allegiance to any Political party. Indeed, I have 2 close friends, from both parties, that I 'joust' with at times - both having served in State Parliament, one, Nationally . I know  another, that I worked with years ago, that is still in State parliament, that is Bent  in so many ways, and I am aghast that he is still in office. 

One of the most satisfying things in this last election, for me, and, it appears many others, was to see our own resident Billionaire Politician,  who spent around $60 Million on his / their campaign - the most of any Party - get soundly kicked in the goolies / rejected by the voters. A F**wit of Epic proportions. 

 

3
2
5/20/2025 9:06pm
scott_nz wrote:
For the aussies in here , why do you think albo and labour won by so much ? Was it Dutton was uninspiring ? Or a...

For the aussies in here , why do you think albo and labour won by so much ? Was it Dutton was uninspiring ? Or a heap of people voting labour to keep the greens out ?  (Which happened here to an extent in 2020 )

Bearuno wrote:
Dutton, is, well, pick the pejorative, and, very much disliked by the majority of the Electorate - as shown by the result, and, he himself losing...

Dutton, is, well, pick the pejorative, and, very much disliked by the majority of the Electorate - as shown by the result, and, he himself losing his seat.

I can't recall exactly the quote, but I saw something along the lines that a bloke - Albanese , and his Party - that was far from popular / liked, won against a bloke / Party,  that was largely despised, or something like that. 

Stupid s**t like His / Their Nuclear Power Plant idea, with No real, believable costing - well, no effort to show it - really didn't impress many. And, when the CSIRO disputes / discredits such a thing, well, people believe Them, rather than some Drongo. We've no need for that way of producing energy -  we have so many other options. We can happily sell sh*tloads of Uranium Yellow Cake to those that need it, though. That, I've no problem with - for many Countries, it's a viable / major way of producing the energy they need. 

Of note : yesterday the National Party, Coalition Partners of the Liberal Party, announced they would no longer be in Coalition with the Libs.

Now, I'm sure they'll still direct preferences when needed / team up with the Libs for power - it just seems to be a bit of a 'demonstration separation' to give them a bit of 'air' from the losers of the election, at least for a time.

I joined both Parties a few years ago - something frowned upon by both - for a short time, to get a better look at  Both parties workings / policies. It was quite enlightening / appalling from both the Libs and Labour. It was just a bit of an education for me - I hold no hard and fast allegiance to any Political party. Indeed, I have 2 close friends, from both parties, that I 'joust' with at times - both having served in State Parliament, one, Nationally . I know  another, that I worked with years ago, that is still in State parliament, that is Bent  in so many ways, and I am aghast that he is still in office. 

One of the most satisfying things in this last election, for me, and, it appears many others, was to see our own resident Billionaire Politician,  who spent around $60 Million on his / their campaign - the most of any Party - get soundly kicked in the goolies / rejected by the voters. A F**wit of Epic proportions. 

 

I really appreciated all the text messages from our resident billionaire, if only I could have responded!

The nuclear power plant idea may have succeeded 30 years ago, but 1/3 of Australian houses have cheap rooftop solar, the cost of nuclear doesn't make sense.

A fast breeder reactor for generating ... isotopes may be useful for security.

1
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MPJC
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5/20/2025 9:13pm
Titan1 wrote:
So the tax amount would be on net worth increase?  Bezo’s net worth went from 200 Billion to 210 billion…he owes 10% (or whatever) of the...

So the tax amount would be on net worth increase?  Bezo’s net worth went from 200 Billion to 210 billion…he owes 10% (or whatever) of the $10 Billion net worth increase….do I understand that right?


Well, it has happened that a billionaires net worth has decreased significantly for various reasons…and they’ve lost billions of their net worth…do they get to show that as a loss?  And get a tax refund?  And then amortize that refund against future taxes due?


And if it is based on net worth increase….what would prevent them from just getting more loans against the increase…since net worth is assets minus liabilities…all they’d have to do to avoid paying taxes on unrealized gains would be to take out loans…so their stock value goes up 10 billion…if they get a loan for 10 billion, then their net worth didn’t go up 10 billion…maybe it went up nothing…and taxing unrealized gains does nothing?  

My point, besides this being just a plain stupid idea, and I haven’t thought it through completely yet, is that short of just outright taking their money (theft) it seems there will never be a way to close all the loop holes to the point that this asinine idea would actually work….


Anyway…I will never support ANY American giving this government any more of their money until the government can stop wasting it…this country has a spending problem, not a revenue problem…it has plenty of revenue…stop wasting it, stop the corruption, stop giving it to other countries, stop with the blatant fiscal irresponsibility…THEN…if it still needs more revenue, we can have a conversation about increasing anyone’s taxes…


Further, I can’t fathom why anyone thinks they are entitled to anyone else’s money, just because they “have” more money than them…you aren’t poor because the rich are hiding all the money…it’s not a zero sum game…everyone is free to earn as much wealth as they can create for themselves…and if someone isn’t creating wealth for themselves, stop blaming rich people and look in the mirror…

I take it the general idea is as you say, and that losses as well as gains would be tracked. I work in the accounting industry and this sounds like a nightmare to me. It can be enough work just to track cost in investment portfolios with significant activity. 

vet323
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Lead, SD, USA
5/20/2025 9:41pm
Titan1 wrote:
So the tax amount would be on net worth increase?  Bezo’s net worth went from 200 Billion to 210 billion…he owes 10% (or whatever) of the...

So the tax amount would be on net worth increase?  Bezo’s net worth went from 200 Billion to 210 billion…he owes 10% (or whatever) of the $10 Billion net worth increase….do I understand that right?


Well, it has happened that a billionaires net worth has decreased significantly for various reasons…and they’ve lost billions of their net worth…do they get to show that as a loss?  And get a tax refund?  And then amortize that refund against future taxes due?


And if it is based on net worth increase….what would prevent them from just getting more loans against the increase…since net worth is assets minus liabilities…all they’d have to do to avoid paying taxes on unrealized gains would be to take out loans…so their stock value goes up 10 billion…if they get a loan for 10 billion, then their net worth didn’t go up 10 billion…maybe it went up nothing…and taxing unrealized gains does nothing?  

My point, besides this being just a plain stupid idea, and I haven’t thought it through completely yet, is that short of just outright taking their money (theft) it seems there will never be a way to close all the loop holes to the point that this asinine idea would actually work….


Anyway…I will never support ANY American giving this government any more of their money until the government can stop wasting it…this country has a spending problem, not a revenue problem…it has plenty of revenue…stop wasting it, stop the corruption, stop giving it to other countries, stop with the blatant fiscal irresponsibility…THEN…if it still needs more revenue, we can have a conversation about increasing anyone’s taxes…


Further, I can’t fathom why anyone thinks they are entitled to anyone else’s money, just because they “have” more money than them…you aren’t poor because the rich are hiding all the money…it’s not a zero sum game…everyone is free to earn as much wealth as they can create for themselves…and if someone isn’t creating wealth for themselves, stop blaming rich people and look in the mirror…

I would venture that our federal government likely wastes 70 cents of every dollar they get. 

Last2Stroke thinks that entitles them to more dollars, somehow. Everything he's written in this thread indicates that his math skills are downright governmental.

4
1
JM485
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5/20/2025 9:42pm
He might. That would be his decision to make. Then the consumers can decide if they want to spend on their wants from Amazon anymore. The...

He might. That would be his decision to make. Then the consumers can decide if they want to spend on their wants from Amazon anymore. The revenue from making sure billionaires don’t pay an effective tax rate of 3% would create an enormous revenue stream to fix so many issues that it would have numerous upsides. The billions in wealth they hoard never actually cycle through our economy. We could put a lot more funding into securing our border, breaking up sex trafficking rings, taking steps to fix our insanely broken healthcare system, etc. That’s all I’m saying. To put in perspective the difference between a millionaire and a billionaire, which is my point here, a million seconds is 11 days. A billion seconds is 31 years. They have more wealth than their great x5 grandchildren will ever be able to spend. For people like you and I to pay a higher tax rate than them is absolute insanity. 

JM485 wrote:
A couple things that make me think you don't understand how an economy works:1. Most if not all billionaires don't have a checking or investment account...

A couple things that make me think you don't understand how an economy works:

1. Most if not all billionaires don't have a checking or investment account where they hide their billions from us peasants, they have that money tied up in company stock, real estate, etc.  In order to tax unrealized gains you would essentially be forcing them to sell off their assets, which in turn hurts everyone.  You don't get to that level of wealth by just saving and hording money, you deploy the capital to build businesses that create jobs to employ people and products for people to buy.

 

2. It would be almost impossible to accurately assess how much of an unrealized capital gain or loss someone has.  Do we just pick a random date in the year and file based on that?  Do we take an average of their gains/losses over the course of the entire year?  The logistics of this make zero sense to anyone with any level of financial background.

 

3. If you took every penny from every billionaire in the US you would fund the federal government for about 8 months, so good luck doing anything with that.

Nope actually I understand economics just fine. Seems to be you who is confused.1. They are absolutely hiding their wealth. Nobody can seriously argue otherwise. I...

Nope actually I understand economics just fine. Seems to be you who is confused.

1. They are absolutely hiding their wealth. Nobody can seriously argue otherwise. I mean it’s hiding in plain sight but it’s still hiding it from taxes. They don’t have an actual job like most people in the world. So they avoid those types of taxes. Then they just live off of their wealth they have hidden from taxes by borrowing against it. The bank always accepts. It’s a secure loan. Then they pay the banks a measly % of interest. Way less than they otherwise would with regular taxes. Their money sitting on real estate investments or in the market does nothing for the economy. It’s not cycling through economy the same way it otherwise would.

2. You just tax a certain percentage of any wealth they have over a certain amount. So let’s say that number is 1 billion. Bezos has a net worth of almost 300 billion. So for 299 billion of that he pays 10% in taxes. Maybe raise it a little more as you get into the hundreds of billions. But to keep it simple in this example, his wealth is assessed on January 1 and he has to pay it by the tax filing date of April 15. So here that would mean he has to pay a wealth tax of 29 billion. Estimates for a program that makes sure every child is fed in all US schools would cost roughly 30 billion. So he alone paying a measly 10% could feed every US child in public schools.

3. I am not a socialist and therefore do not support taking every penny from every rich person.

There's more than a few fundamental issues with the things you're saying.

 

Let's pretend, hypothetically, that the money you're suggesting be taken actually went directly to the causes you're describing (in the real world we know this is not the case but let's set that aside for this argument).  Great, we've fed a lot of kids and have now logistically figured out how to cost effectively eliminate hunger for children in America, outstanding!  But is it though?  Are there no second or third order consequences to the supposed solution you're describing?  Let pretend that if Bezos wasn't taxed on his unrealized gains and left to take loans against his stock holdings like you describe, that he would take a measly $100million or so and commission a new megayacht.  Well, on the surface that seems like a huge waste of money, but consider where that money is actually going.  First the yacht needs to be designed, There's gonna be a lot of well paid designers on that project, as well as engineers before a single panel is formed.  Now, once the yacht is designed, we need a shit ton of highly skilled shipbuilders to bring the vision to life, who are also getting paid a decent wage I'd imagine.  Let's also not forget that there are a lot of different suppliers on the project, anything from raw materials like aluminum and steel to finished goods like fiberglass or carbon fiber panels.  A project like this could take considerable time, likely years to complete, and could easily sustain entire companies that are filled with other workers like HR, AP, AR, etc. 

 

If his yacht project isn't enough maybe he decides to take another $100m or so and build a few more Amazon warehouses.  Again, that's a lot of steel, concrete, skilled labor, and construction companies involved in that project as well.  The point being, if $10billion is taken and these projects don't happen, you're essentially just robbing Peter to pay Paul and getting no end product as a result.  The kids of all those workers who lost their jobs because the project didn't happen aren't any less deserving of food than the other kids we're supposedly feeding now, so this entire theory that the moral high ground belongs to those stealing wealth from the upper class to somehow pay the poor is absurd.  

2
5/20/2025 10:14pm
JM485 wrote:
A couple things that make me think you don't understand how an economy works:1. Most if not all billionaires don't have a checking or investment account...

A couple things that make me think you don't understand how an economy works:

1. Most if not all billionaires don't have a checking or investment account where they hide their billions from us peasants, they have that money tied up in company stock, real estate, etc.  In order to tax unrealized gains you would essentially be forcing them to sell off their assets, which in turn hurts everyone.  You don't get to that level of wealth by just saving and hording money, you deploy the capital to build businesses that create jobs to employ people and products for people to buy.

 

2. It would be almost impossible to accurately assess how much of an unrealized capital gain or loss someone has.  Do we just pick a random date in the year and file based on that?  Do we take an average of their gains/losses over the course of the entire year?  The logistics of this make zero sense to anyone with any level of financial background.

 

3. If you took every penny from every billionaire in the US you would fund the federal government for about 8 months, so good luck doing anything with that.

Nope actually I understand economics just fine. Seems to be you who is confused.1. They are absolutely hiding their wealth. Nobody can seriously argue otherwise. I...

Nope actually I understand economics just fine. Seems to be you who is confused.

1. They are absolutely hiding their wealth. Nobody can seriously argue otherwise. I mean it’s hiding in plain sight but it’s still hiding it from taxes. They don’t have an actual job like most people in the world. So they avoid those types of taxes. Then they just live off of their wealth they have hidden from taxes by borrowing against it. The bank always accepts. It’s a secure loan. Then they pay the banks a measly % of interest. Way less than they otherwise would with regular taxes. Their money sitting on real estate investments or in the market does nothing for the economy. It’s not cycling through economy the same way it otherwise would.

2. You just tax a certain percentage of any wealth they have over a certain amount. So let’s say that number is 1 billion. Bezos has a net worth of almost 300 billion. So for 299 billion of that he pays 10% in taxes. Maybe raise it a little more as you get into the hundreds of billions. But to keep it simple in this example, his wealth is assessed on January 1 and he has to pay it by the tax filing date of April 15. So here that would mean he has to pay a wealth tax of 29 billion. Estimates for a program that makes sure every child is fed in all US schools would cost roughly 30 billion. So he alone paying a measly 10% could feed every US child in public schools.

3. I am not a socialist and therefore do not support taking every penny from every rich person.

JM485 wrote:
There's more than a few fundamental issues with the things you're saying. Let's pretend, hypothetically, that the money you're suggesting be taken actually went directly to the...

There's more than a few fundamental issues with the things you're saying.

 

Let's pretend, hypothetically, that the money you're suggesting be taken actually went directly to the causes you're describing (in the real world we know this is not the case but let's set that aside for this argument).  Great, we've fed a lot of kids and have now logistically figured out how to cost effectively eliminate hunger for children in America, outstanding!  But is it though?  Are there no second or third order consequences to the supposed solution you're describing?  Let pretend that if Bezos wasn't taxed on his unrealized gains and left to take loans against his stock holdings like you describe, that he would take a measly $100million or so and commission a new megayacht.  Well, on the surface that seems like a huge waste of money, but consider where that money is actually going.  First the yacht needs to be designed, There's gonna be a lot of well paid designers on that project, as well as engineers before a single panel is formed.  Now, once the yacht is designed, we need a shit ton of highly skilled shipbuilders to bring the vision to life, who are also getting paid a decent wage I'd imagine.  Let's also not forget that there are a lot of different suppliers on the project, anything from raw materials like aluminum and steel to finished goods like fiberglass or carbon fiber panels.  A project like this could take considerable time, likely years to complete, and could easily sustain entire companies that are filled with other workers like HR, AP, AR, etc. 

 

If his yacht project isn't enough maybe he decides to take another $100m or so and build a few more Amazon warehouses.  Again, that's a lot of steel, concrete, skilled labor, and construction companies involved in that project as well.  The point being, if $10billion is taken and these projects don't happen, you're essentially just robbing Peter to pay Paul and getting no end product as a result.  The kids of all those workers who lost their jobs because the project didn't happen aren't any less deserving of food than the other kids we're supposedly feeding now, so this entire theory that the moral high ground belongs to those stealing wealth from the upper class to somehow pay the poor is absurd.  

The US is not known for it's mega yacht builders!

The luxury yacht builders of Germany, Italy and the Netherlands would welcome Bezos's business...

https://www.yachting-pages.com/articles/top-10-luxury-yacht-builders.html

 

1
4
5/20/2025 10:23pm
Titan1 wrote:
So the tax amount would be on net worth increase?  Bezo’s net worth went from 200 Billion to 210 billion…he owes 10% (or whatever) of the...

So the tax amount would be on net worth increase?  Bezo’s net worth went from 200 Billion to 210 billion…he owes 10% (or whatever) of the $10 Billion net worth increase….do I understand that right?


Well, it has happened that a billionaires net worth has decreased significantly for various reasons…and they’ve lost billions of their net worth…do they get to show that as a loss?  And get a tax refund?  And then amortize that refund against future taxes due?


And if it is based on net worth increase….what would prevent them from just getting more loans against the increase…since net worth is assets minus liabilities…all they’d have to do to avoid paying taxes on unrealized gains would be to take out loans…so their stock value goes up 10 billion…if they get a loan for 10 billion, then their net worth didn’t go up 10 billion…maybe it went up nothing…and taxing unrealized gains does nothing?  

My point, besides this being just a plain stupid idea, and I haven’t thought it through completely yet, is that short of just outright taking their money (theft) it seems there will never be a way to close all the loop holes to the point that this asinine idea would actually work….


Anyway…I will never support ANY American giving this government any more of their money until the government can stop wasting it…this country has a spending problem, not a revenue problem…it has plenty of revenue…stop wasting it, stop the corruption, stop giving it to other countries, stop with the blatant fiscal irresponsibility…THEN…if it still needs more revenue, we can have a conversation about increasing anyone’s taxes…


Further, I can’t fathom why anyone thinks they are entitled to anyone else’s money, just because they “have” more money than them…you aren’t poor because the rich are hiding all the money…it’s not a zero sum game…everyone is free to earn as much wealth as they can create for themselves…and if someone isn’t creating wealth for themselves, stop blaming rich people and look in the mirror…

vet323 wrote:
I would venture that our federal government likely wastes 70 cents of every dollar they get. Last2Stroke thinks that entitles them to more dollars, somehow. Everything he's...

I would venture that our federal government likely wastes 70 cents of every dollar they get. 

Last2Stroke thinks that entitles them to more dollars, somehow. Everything he's written in this thread indicates that his math skills are downright governmental.

If your federal government wastes 70 cents of every dollar, DOGE should be able to save $4.76 trillion annually.

But carry on...

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Sully
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JP
5/20/2025 10:36pm
Nope actually I understand economics just fine. Seems to be you who is confused.1. They are absolutely hiding their wealth. Nobody can seriously argue otherwise. I...

Nope actually I understand economics just fine. Seems to be you who is confused.

1. They are absolutely hiding their wealth. Nobody can seriously argue otherwise. I mean it’s hiding in plain sight but it’s still hiding it from taxes. They don’t have an actual job like most people in the world. So they avoid those types of taxes. Then they just live off of their wealth they have hidden from taxes by borrowing against it. The bank always accepts. It’s a secure loan. Then they pay the banks a measly % of interest. Way less than they otherwise would with regular taxes. Their money sitting on real estate investments or in the market does nothing for the economy. It’s not cycling through economy the same way it otherwise would.

2. You just tax a certain percentage of any wealth they have over a certain amount. So let’s say that number is 1 billion. Bezos has a net worth of almost 300 billion. So for 299 billion of that he pays 10% in taxes. Maybe raise it a little more as you get into the hundreds of billions. But to keep it simple in this example, his wealth is assessed on January 1 and he has to pay it by the tax filing date of April 15. So here that would mean he has to pay a wealth tax of 29 billion. Estimates for a program that makes sure every child is fed in all US schools would cost roughly 30 billion. So he alone paying a measly 10% could feed every US child in public schools.

3. I am not a socialist and therefore do not support taking every penny from every rich person.

JM485 wrote:
There's more than a few fundamental issues with the things you're saying. Let's pretend, hypothetically, that the money you're suggesting be taken actually went directly to the...

There's more than a few fundamental issues with the things you're saying.

 

Let's pretend, hypothetically, that the money you're suggesting be taken actually went directly to the causes you're describing (in the real world we know this is not the case but let's set that aside for this argument).  Great, we've fed a lot of kids and have now logistically figured out how to cost effectively eliminate hunger for children in America, outstanding!  But is it though?  Are there no second or third order consequences to the supposed solution you're describing?  Let pretend that if Bezos wasn't taxed on his unrealized gains and left to take loans against his stock holdings like you describe, that he would take a measly $100million or so and commission a new megayacht.  Well, on the surface that seems like a huge waste of money, but consider where that money is actually going.  First the yacht needs to be designed, There's gonna be a lot of well paid designers on that project, as well as engineers before a single panel is formed.  Now, once the yacht is designed, we need a shit ton of highly skilled shipbuilders to bring the vision to life, who are also getting paid a decent wage I'd imagine.  Let's also not forget that there are a lot of different suppliers on the project, anything from raw materials like aluminum and steel to finished goods like fiberglass or carbon fiber panels.  A project like this could take considerable time, likely years to complete, and could easily sustain entire companies that are filled with other workers like HR, AP, AR, etc. 

 

If his yacht project isn't enough maybe he decides to take another $100m or so and build a few more Amazon warehouses.  Again, that's a lot of steel, concrete, skilled labor, and construction companies involved in that project as well.  The point being, if $10billion is taken and these projects don't happen, you're essentially just robbing Peter to pay Paul and getting no end product as a result.  The kids of all those workers who lost their jobs because the project didn't happen aren't any less deserving of food than the other kids we're supposedly feeding now, so this entire theory that the moral high ground belongs to those stealing wealth from the upper class to somehow pay the poor is absurd.  

The US is not known for it's mega yacht builders!

The luxury yacht builders of Germany, Italy and the Netherlands would welcome Bezos's business...

https://www.yachting-pages.com/articles/top-10-luxury-yacht-builders.html

 

So with everything JM said, the only thing you took from it was "yacht"? You're either incredibly dense, or you're acting like a douche just for the sake of being a contrarian...

3
ThatOneMXGuy
Posts
1073
Joined
12/28/2023
Location
Somewhere, MO, USA
5/20/2025 10:56pm
Sully wrote:

Keeping with the Bezos example, why do you think the government is more entitled to his money than he is?

It’s not about “entitlement”. It’s creating a more progressive tax system so we don’t end up in the Second Gilded Age, which many historians and economists...

It’s not about “entitlement”. It’s creating a more progressive tax system so we don’t end up in the Second Gilded Age, which many historians and economists argue we are already in. It gives the middle class more of a chance and keeps the billionaires from holding all the political and economic power in the country. And again, hundreds of billions in wealth. He wouldn’t even notice having that taxed, and it could feed multiple starving children. And I’d argue society is much better when children aren’t starving.

Sully wrote:
Who are you to say what he would or wouldn't notice? I agree about the starving children, but that's what charities are for. I'd rather choose where...

Who are you to say what he would or wouldn't notice? 

I agree about the starving children, but that's what charities are for. I'd rather choose where my money goes than to have it confiscated at gunpoint and used to pay for some bloated government program. During fiscal year 2024, the IRS collected more than $5.1 trillion in tax revenue. That'll feed a shit load of starving children, and yet...we still have starving children (and a gigantic national debt). 

He would not notice one bit. Billions in wealth is unfathomable to 99.99% of people to ever live. If his current wealth did not grow or shrink till the end of time, he could spend an average of 1 million per day and it would take him over 800 years to exhaust his wealth. But let’s just assume a measly 1% return yearly on his assets. As we know, that’s way below the average. That means yearly his assets would grow by 3 billion. And spending that 1 million daily would obviously be 365 million spent. We are not talking millions here. This is just an unspeakable amount of wealth. Again I’ll use my original example to show how much it is. 1 million seconds is 11 days. 1 billion seconds is 31 years. And Bezos has a net worth of 300 billion. His lifestyle is the exact same whether everything over 1 billion gets taxed at 10% or not.

I agree charities are great! But they’re voluntary. They can and will dry up in an instant. I’d rather have a guarantee from the federal government that basic needs of children are met and if billionaires have to pay a little bit more to make that happen then I’m all for it.

Your IRS statistic. Yes they collect the money, but the House determines the budget. They decide where the money is spent and how. You are correct our debt keeps going up. You know what one major thing would help mitigate that?

1
5
5/20/2025 10:56pm
JM485 wrote:
There's more than a few fundamental issues with the things you're saying. Let's pretend, hypothetically, that the money you're suggesting be taken actually went directly to the...

There's more than a few fundamental issues with the things you're saying.

 

Let's pretend, hypothetically, that the money you're suggesting be taken actually went directly to the causes you're describing (in the real world we know this is not the case but let's set that aside for this argument).  Great, we've fed a lot of kids and have now logistically figured out how to cost effectively eliminate hunger for children in America, outstanding!  But is it though?  Are there no second or third order consequences to the supposed solution you're describing?  Let pretend that if Bezos wasn't taxed on his unrealized gains and left to take loans against his stock holdings like you describe, that he would take a measly $100million or so and commission a new megayacht.  Well, on the surface that seems like a huge waste of money, but consider where that money is actually going.  First the yacht needs to be designed, There's gonna be a lot of well paid designers on that project, as well as engineers before a single panel is formed.  Now, once the yacht is designed, we need a shit ton of highly skilled shipbuilders to bring the vision to life, who are also getting paid a decent wage I'd imagine.  Let's also not forget that there are a lot of different suppliers on the project, anything from raw materials like aluminum and steel to finished goods like fiberglass or carbon fiber panels.  A project like this could take considerable time, likely years to complete, and could easily sustain entire companies that are filled with other workers like HR, AP, AR, etc. 

 

If his yacht project isn't enough maybe he decides to take another $100m or so and build a few more Amazon warehouses.  Again, that's a lot of steel, concrete, skilled labor, and construction companies involved in that project as well.  The point being, if $10billion is taken and these projects don't happen, you're essentially just robbing Peter to pay Paul and getting no end product as a result.  The kids of all those workers who lost their jobs because the project didn't happen aren't any less deserving of food than the other kids we're supposedly feeding now, so this entire theory that the moral high ground belongs to those stealing wealth from the upper class to somehow pay the poor is absurd.  

The US is not known for it's mega yacht builders!

The luxury yacht builders of Germany, Italy and the Netherlands would welcome Bezos's business...

https://www.yachting-pages.com/articles/top-10-luxury-yacht-builders.html

 

Sully wrote:
So with everything JM said, the only thing you took from it was "yacht"? You're either incredibly dense, or you're acting like a douche just for...

So with everything JM said, the only thing you took from it was "yacht"? You're either incredibly dense, or you're acting like a douche just for the sake of being a contrarian...

It's sad to see the US education system in action, let me explain it for you...

If Bezos spent $100 million building a yacht, it would not be built in the US, the business and jobs @JM485 is outlining would be in Germany, Italy or the Netherlands. It would be a personal expense and not tax deductible.

If Bezos decided to build more Amazon warehouses in the US, it would provide business and people in the US with work during construction, and employment for people working inside the warehouses after construction. It would be a business expense for Amazon, and would be tax deductible.

2
3
ThatOneMXGuy
Posts
1073
Joined
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Location
Somewhere, MO, USA
5/20/2025 11:03pm
JM485 wrote:
A couple things that make me think you don't understand how an economy works:1. Most if not all billionaires don't have a checking or investment account...

A couple things that make me think you don't understand how an economy works:

1. Most if not all billionaires don't have a checking or investment account where they hide their billions from us peasants, they have that money tied up in company stock, real estate, etc.  In order to tax unrealized gains you would essentially be forcing them to sell off their assets, which in turn hurts everyone.  You don't get to that level of wealth by just saving and hording money, you deploy the capital to build businesses that create jobs to employ people and products for people to buy.

 

2. It would be almost impossible to accurately assess how much of an unrealized capital gain or loss someone has.  Do we just pick a random date in the year and file based on that?  Do we take an average of their gains/losses over the course of the entire year?  The logistics of this make zero sense to anyone with any level of financial background.

 

3. If you took every penny from every billionaire in the US you would fund the federal government for about 8 months, so good luck doing anything with that.

Nope actually I understand economics just fine. Seems to be you who is confused.1. They are absolutely hiding their wealth. Nobody can seriously argue otherwise. I...

Nope actually I understand economics just fine. Seems to be you who is confused.

1. They are absolutely hiding their wealth. Nobody can seriously argue otherwise. I mean it’s hiding in plain sight but it’s still hiding it from taxes. They don’t have an actual job like most people in the world. So they avoid those types of taxes. Then they just live off of their wealth they have hidden from taxes by borrowing against it. The bank always accepts. It’s a secure loan. Then they pay the banks a measly % of interest. Way less than they otherwise would with regular taxes. Their money sitting on real estate investments or in the market does nothing for the economy. It’s not cycling through economy the same way it otherwise would.

2. You just tax a certain percentage of any wealth they have over a certain amount. So let’s say that number is 1 billion. Bezos has a net worth of almost 300 billion. So for 299 billion of that he pays 10% in taxes. Maybe raise it a little more as you get into the hundreds of billions. But to keep it simple in this example, his wealth is assessed on January 1 and he has to pay it by the tax filing date of April 15. So here that would mean he has to pay a wealth tax of 29 billion. Estimates for a program that makes sure every child is fed in all US schools would cost roughly 30 billion. So he alone paying a measly 10% could feed every US child in public schools.

3. I am not a socialist and therefore do not support taking every penny from every rich person.

JM485 wrote:
There's more than a few fundamental issues with the things you're saying. Let's pretend, hypothetically, that the money you're suggesting be taken actually went directly to the...

There's more than a few fundamental issues with the things you're saying.

 

Let's pretend, hypothetically, that the money you're suggesting be taken actually went directly to the causes you're describing (in the real world we know this is not the case but let's set that aside for this argument).  Great, we've fed a lot of kids and have now logistically figured out how to cost effectively eliminate hunger for children in America, outstanding!  But is it though?  Are there no second or third order consequences to the supposed solution you're describing?  Let pretend that if Bezos wasn't taxed on his unrealized gains and left to take loans against his stock holdings like you describe, that he would take a measly $100million or so and commission a new megayacht.  Well, on the surface that seems like a huge waste of money, but consider where that money is actually going.  First the yacht needs to be designed, There's gonna be a lot of well paid designers on that project, as well as engineers before a single panel is formed.  Now, once the yacht is designed, we need a shit ton of highly skilled shipbuilders to bring the vision to life, who are also getting paid a decent wage I'd imagine.  Let's also not forget that there are a lot of different suppliers on the project, anything from raw materials like aluminum and steel to finished goods like fiberglass or carbon fiber panels.  A project like this could take considerable time, likely years to complete, and could easily sustain entire companies that are filled with other workers like HR, AP, AR, etc. 

 

If his yacht project isn't enough maybe he decides to take another $100m or so and build a few more Amazon warehouses.  Again, that's a lot of steel, concrete, skilled labor, and construction companies involved in that project as well.  The point being, if $10billion is taken and these projects don't happen, you're essentially just robbing Peter to pay Paul and getting no end product as a result.  The kids of all those workers who lost their jobs because the project didn't happen aren't any less deserving of food than the other kids we're supposedly feeding now, so this entire theory that the moral high ground belongs to those stealing wealth from the upper class to somehow pay the poor is absurd.  

Of course billionaires spend money! You think he’s not going to buy his yacht and literally anything else he thinks he wants at that moment because he his assets would have been 300 billion but instead the growth from 270 billion to 300 billion got taxed at 10% and only gave him 297 billion instead? I think we’d both be extremely naive to think someone’s wealth being taxed and dropping their net worth from 300 billion to 297 billion (in this example) would mean that said billionaire would then decide he doesn’t want a custom built 500 million dollar yacht to hang out on in the ocean.

5
5/20/2025 11:19pm Edited Date/Time 5/20/2025 11:20pm
Nope actually I understand economics just fine. Seems to be you who is confused.1. They are absolutely hiding their wealth. Nobody can seriously argue otherwise. I...

Nope actually I understand economics just fine. Seems to be you who is confused.

1. They are absolutely hiding their wealth. Nobody can seriously argue otherwise. I mean it’s hiding in plain sight but it’s still hiding it from taxes. They don’t have an actual job like most people in the world. So they avoid those types of taxes. Then they just live off of their wealth they have hidden from taxes by borrowing against it. The bank always accepts. It’s a secure loan. Then they pay the banks a measly % of interest. Way less than they otherwise would with regular taxes. Their money sitting on real estate investments or in the market does nothing for the economy. It’s not cycling through economy the same way it otherwise would.

2. You just tax a certain percentage of any wealth they have over a certain amount. So let’s say that number is 1 billion. Bezos has a net worth of almost 300 billion. So for 299 billion of that he pays 10% in taxes. Maybe raise it a little more as you get into the hundreds of billions. But to keep it simple in this example, his wealth is assessed on January 1 and he has to pay it by the tax filing date of April 15. So here that would mean he has to pay a wealth tax of 29 billion. Estimates for a program that makes sure every child is fed in all US schools would cost roughly 30 billion. So he alone paying a measly 10% could feed every US child in public schools.

3. I am not a socialist and therefore do not support taking every penny from every rich person.

JM485 wrote:
There's more than a few fundamental issues with the things you're saying. Let's pretend, hypothetically, that the money you're suggesting be taken actually went directly to the...

There's more than a few fundamental issues with the things you're saying.

 

Let's pretend, hypothetically, that the money you're suggesting be taken actually went directly to the causes you're describing (in the real world we know this is not the case but let's set that aside for this argument).  Great, we've fed a lot of kids and have now logistically figured out how to cost effectively eliminate hunger for children in America, outstanding!  But is it though?  Are there no second or third order consequences to the supposed solution you're describing?  Let pretend that if Bezos wasn't taxed on his unrealized gains and left to take loans against his stock holdings like you describe, that he would take a measly $100million or so and commission a new megayacht.  Well, on the surface that seems like a huge waste of money, but consider where that money is actually going.  First the yacht needs to be designed, There's gonna be a lot of well paid designers on that project, as well as engineers before a single panel is formed.  Now, once the yacht is designed, we need a shit ton of highly skilled shipbuilders to bring the vision to life, who are also getting paid a decent wage I'd imagine.  Let's also not forget that there are a lot of different suppliers on the project, anything from raw materials like aluminum and steel to finished goods like fiberglass or carbon fiber panels.  A project like this could take considerable time, likely years to complete, and could easily sustain entire companies that are filled with other workers like HR, AP, AR, etc. 

 

If his yacht project isn't enough maybe he decides to take another $100m or so and build a few more Amazon warehouses.  Again, that's a lot of steel, concrete, skilled labor, and construction companies involved in that project as well.  The point being, if $10billion is taken and these projects don't happen, you're essentially just robbing Peter to pay Paul and getting no end product as a result.  The kids of all those workers who lost their jobs because the project didn't happen aren't any less deserving of food than the other kids we're supposedly feeding now, so this entire theory that the moral high ground belongs to those stealing wealth from the upper class to somehow pay the poor is absurd.  

Of course billionaires spend money! You think he’s not going to buy his yacht and literally anything else he thinks he wants at that moment because...

Of course billionaires spend money! You think he’s not going to buy his yacht and literally anything else he thinks he wants at that moment because he his assets would have been 300 billion but instead the growth from 270 billion to 300 billion got taxed at 10% and only gave him 297 billion instead? I think we’d both be extremely naive to think someone’s wealth being taxed and dropping their net worth from 300 billion to 297 billion (in this example) would mean that said billionaire would then decide he doesn’t want a custom built 500 million dollar yacht to hang out on in the ocean.

He has the money to build anything he wants to, even a flying dildo...

2
inflammable
Posts
2219
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Location
Abilene, TX, USA
5/20/2025 11:27pm
Nope actually I understand economics just fine. Seems to be you who is confused.1. They are absolutely hiding their wealth. Nobody can seriously argue otherwise. I...

Nope actually I understand economics just fine. Seems to be you who is confused.

1. They are absolutely hiding their wealth. Nobody can seriously argue otherwise. I mean it’s hiding in plain sight but it’s still hiding it from taxes. They don’t have an actual job like most people in the world. So they avoid those types of taxes. Then they just live off of their wealth they have hidden from taxes by borrowing against it. The bank always accepts. It’s a secure loan. Then they pay the banks a measly % of interest. Way less than they otherwise would with regular taxes. Their money sitting on real estate investments or in the market does nothing for the economy. It’s not cycling through economy the same way it otherwise would.

2. You just tax a certain percentage of any wealth they have over a certain amount. So let’s say that number is 1 billion. Bezos has a net worth of almost 300 billion. So for 299 billion of that he pays 10% in taxes. Maybe raise it a little more as you get into the hundreds of billions. But to keep it simple in this example, his wealth is assessed on January 1 and he has to pay it by the tax filing date of April 15. So here that would mean he has to pay a wealth tax of 29 billion. Estimates for a program that makes sure every child is fed in all US schools would cost roughly 30 billion. So he alone paying a measly 10% could feed every US child in public schools.

3. I am not a socialist and therefore do not support taking every penny from every rich person.

JM485 wrote:
There's more than a few fundamental issues with the things you're saying. Let's pretend, hypothetically, that the money you're suggesting be taken actually went directly to the...

There's more than a few fundamental issues with the things you're saying.

 

Let's pretend, hypothetically, that the money you're suggesting be taken actually went directly to the causes you're describing (in the real world we know this is not the case but let's set that aside for this argument).  Great, we've fed a lot of kids and have now logistically figured out how to cost effectively eliminate hunger for children in America, outstanding!  But is it though?  Are there no second or third order consequences to the supposed solution you're describing?  Let pretend that if Bezos wasn't taxed on his unrealized gains and left to take loans against his stock holdings like you describe, that he would take a measly $100million or so and commission a new megayacht.  Well, on the surface that seems like a huge waste of money, but consider where that money is actually going.  First the yacht needs to be designed, There's gonna be a lot of well paid designers on that project, as well as engineers before a single panel is formed.  Now, once the yacht is designed, we need a shit ton of highly skilled shipbuilders to bring the vision to life, who are also getting paid a decent wage I'd imagine.  Let's also not forget that there are a lot of different suppliers on the project, anything from raw materials like aluminum and steel to finished goods like fiberglass or carbon fiber panels.  A project like this could take considerable time, likely years to complete, and could easily sustain entire companies that are filled with other workers like HR, AP, AR, etc. 

 

If his yacht project isn't enough maybe he decides to take another $100m or so and build a few more Amazon warehouses.  Again, that's a lot of steel, concrete, skilled labor, and construction companies involved in that project as well.  The point being, if $10billion is taken and these projects don't happen, you're essentially just robbing Peter to pay Paul and getting no end product as a result.  The kids of all those workers who lost their jobs because the project didn't happen aren't any less deserving of food than the other kids we're supposedly feeding now, so this entire theory that the moral high ground belongs to those stealing wealth from the upper class to somehow pay the poor is absurd.  

Of course billionaires spend money! You think he’s not going to buy his yacht and literally anything else he thinks he wants at that moment because...

Of course billionaires spend money! You think he’s not going to buy his yacht and literally anything else he thinks he wants at that moment because he his assets would have been 300 billion but instead the growth from 270 billion to 300 billion got taxed at 10% and only gave him 297 billion instead? I think we’d both be extremely naive to think someone’s wealth being taxed and dropping their net worth from 300 billion to 297 billion (in this example) would mean that said billionaire would then decide he doesn’t want a custom built 500 million dollar yacht to hang out on in the ocean.

The funniest part of this whole thread is ThatOneMXGuy (from his parents basement on the Mesa in Austin) expecting that the increased taxes paid by the billionaires would go to starving children. 

The reality is it would go to government programs that benefit the cohorts of government officials, and would get distributed to NGOs who are also cohorts, and some of it would get sent back to those same government officials. 

Odd how ThatOneMXGuy is so concerned about taking out his anger over not being wealthy on billionaires without saying anything about how the Clintons, the Obamas, Bernie Sanders, etc have been government officials for the great majority of their careers and somehow are now multimillionaires. 

So asking ThatOneMXGuy again - How much of someone else's money are you entitled to? It will only be a matter of time before that amount goes up. 

Cutting government corruption and wasteful spending should be the first step. 

4
1
inflammable
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Location
Abilene, TX, USA
5/20/2025 11:29pm
JM485 wrote:
There's more than a few fundamental issues with the things you're saying. Let's pretend, hypothetically, that the money you're suggesting be taken actually went directly to the...

There's more than a few fundamental issues with the things you're saying.

 

Let's pretend, hypothetically, that the money you're suggesting be taken actually went directly to the causes you're describing (in the real world we know this is not the case but let's set that aside for this argument).  Great, we've fed a lot of kids and have now logistically figured out how to cost effectively eliminate hunger for children in America, outstanding!  But is it though?  Are there no second or third order consequences to the supposed solution you're describing?  Let pretend that if Bezos wasn't taxed on his unrealized gains and left to take loans against his stock holdings like you describe, that he would take a measly $100million or so and commission a new megayacht.  Well, on the surface that seems like a huge waste of money, but consider where that money is actually going.  First the yacht needs to be designed, There's gonna be a lot of well paid designers on that project, as well as engineers before a single panel is formed.  Now, once the yacht is designed, we need a shit ton of highly skilled shipbuilders to bring the vision to life, who are also getting paid a decent wage I'd imagine.  Let's also not forget that there are a lot of different suppliers on the project, anything from raw materials like aluminum and steel to finished goods like fiberglass or carbon fiber panels.  A project like this could take considerable time, likely years to complete, and could easily sustain entire companies that are filled with other workers like HR, AP, AR, etc. 

 

If his yacht project isn't enough maybe he decides to take another $100m or so and build a few more Amazon warehouses.  Again, that's a lot of steel, concrete, skilled labor, and construction companies involved in that project as well.  The point being, if $10billion is taken and these projects don't happen, you're essentially just robbing Peter to pay Paul and getting no end product as a result.  The kids of all those workers who lost their jobs because the project didn't happen aren't any less deserving of food than the other kids we're supposedly feeding now, so this entire theory that the moral high ground belongs to those stealing wealth from the upper class to somehow pay the poor is absurd.  

Of course billionaires spend money! You think he’s not going to buy his yacht and literally anything else he thinks he wants at that moment because...

Of course billionaires spend money! You think he’s not going to buy his yacht and literally anything else he thinks he wants at that moment because he his assets would have been 300 billion but instead the growth from 270 billion to 300 billion got taxed at 10% and only gave him 297 billion instead? I think we’d both be extremely naive to think someone’s wealth being taxed and dropping their net worth from 300 billion to 297 billion (in this example) would mean that said billionaire would then decide he doesn’t want a custom built 500 million dollar yacht to hang out on in the ocean.

He has the money to build anything he wants to, even a flying dildo...

It's amazing how righteous so many folks become when talking about billionaires and how they should spend their money....

inflammable
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5/20/2025 11:32pm
scott_nz wrote:
For the aussies in here , why do you think albo and labour won by so much ? Was it Dutton was uninspiring ? Or a...

For the aussies in here , why do you think albo and labour won by so much ? Was it Dutton was uninspiring ? Or a heap of people voting labour to keep the greens out ?  (Which happened here to an extent in 2020 )

Bearuno wrote:
Dutton, is, well, pick the pejorative, and, very much disliked by the majority of the Electorate - as shown by the result, and, he himself losing...

Dutton, is, well, pick the pejorative, and, very much disliked by the majority of the Electorate - as shown by the result, and, he himself losing his seat.

I can't recall exactly the quote, but I saw something along the lines that a bloke - Albanese , and his Party - that was far from popular / liked, won against a bloke / Party,  that was largely despised, or something like that. 

Stupid s**t like His / Their Nuclear Power Plant idea, with No real, believable costing - well, no effort to show it - really didn't impress many. And, when the CSIRO disputes / discredits such a thing, well, people believe Them, rather than some Drongo. We've no need for that way of producing energy -  we have so many other options. We can happily sell sh*tloads of Uranium Yellow Cake to those that need it, though. That, I've no problem with - for many Countries, it's a viable / major way of producing the energy they need. 

Of note : yesterday the National Party, Coalition Partners of the Liberal Party, announced they would no longer be in Coalition with the Libs.

Now, I'm sure they'll still direct preferences when needed / team up with the Libs for power - it just seems to be a bit of a 'demonstration separation' to give them a bit of 'air' from the losers of the election, at least for a time.

I joined both Parties a few years ago - something frowned upon by both - for a short time, to get a better look at  Both parties workings / policies. It was quite enlightening / appalling from both the Libs and Labour. It was just a bit of an education for me - I hold no hard and fast allegiance to any Political party. Indeed, I have 2 close friends, from both parties, that I 'joust' with at times - both having served in State Parliament, one, Nationally . I know  another, that I worked with years ago, that is still in State parliament, that is Bent  in so many ways, and I am aghast that he is still in office. 

One of the most satisfying things in this last election, for me, and, it appears many others, was to see our own resident Billionaire Politician,  who spent around $60 Million on his / their campaign - the most of any Party - get soundly kicked in the goolies / rejected by the voters. A F**wit of Epic proportions. 

 

I really appreciated all the text messages from our resident billionaire, if only I could have responded!The nuclear power plant idea may have succeeded 30 years...

I really appreciated all the text messages from our resident billionaire, if only I could have responded!

The nuclear power plant idea may have succeeded 30 years ago, but 1/3 of Australian houses have cheap rooftop solar, the cost of nuclear doesn't make sense.

A fast breeder reactor for generating ... isotopes may be useful for security.

How much of the cheap cost of the solar panels is due to any Australian government programs?

5/20/2025 11:33pm
Of course billionaires spend money! You think he’s not going to buy his yacht and literally anything else he thinks he wants at that moment because...

Of course billionaires spend money! You think he’s not going to buy his yacht and literally anything else he thinks he wants at that moment because he his assets would have been 300 billion but instead the growth from 270 billion to 300 billion got taxed at 10% and only gave him 297 billion instead? I think we’d both be extremely naive to think someone’s wealth being taxed and dropping their net worth from 300 billion to 297 billion (in this example) would mean that said billionaire would then decide he doesn’t want a custom built 500 million dollar yacht to hang out on in the ocean.

He has the money to build anything he wants to, even a flying dildo...

It's amazing how righteous so many folks become when talking about billionaires and how they should spend their money....

I don't have an issue with how he spends his money, but he should have made it pointy...

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5/20/2025 11:43pm

He has the money to build anything he wants to, even a flying dildo...

It's amazing how righteous so many folks become when talking about billionaires and how they should spend their money....

I don't have an issue with how he spends his money, but he should have made it pointy...

Ok, I can't argue with that. Appreciate the clarification 😀

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5/20/2025 11:44pm
Bearuno wrote:
Dutton, is, well, pick the pejorative, and, very much disliked by the majority of the Electorate - as shown by the result, and, he himself losing...

Dutton, is, well, pick the pejorative, and, very much disliked by the majority of the Electorate - as shown by the result, and, he himself losing his seat.

I can't recall exactly the quote, but I saw something along the lines that a bloke - Albanese , and his Party - that was far from popular / liked, won against a bloke / Party,  that was largely despised, or something like that. 

Stupid s**t like His / Their Nuclear Power Plant idea, with No real, believable costing - well, no effort to show it - really didn't impress many. And, when the CSIRO disputes / discredits such a thing, well, people believe Them, rather than some Drongo. We've no need for that way of producing energy -  we have so many other options. We can happily sell sh*tloads of Uranium Yellow Cake to those that need it, though. That, I've no problem with - for many Countries, it's a viable / major way of producing the energy they need. 

Of note : yesterday the National Party, Coalition Partners of the Liberal Party, announced they would no longer be in Coalition with the Libs.

Now, I'm sure they'll still direct preferences when needed / team up with the Libs for power - it just seems to be a bit of a 'demonstration separation' to give them a bit of 'air' from the losers of the election, at least for a time.

I joined both Parties a few years ago - something frowned upon by both - for a short time, to get a better look at  Both parties workings / policies. It was quite enlightening / appalling from both the Libs and Labour. It was just a bit of an education for me - I hold no hard and fast allegiance to any Political party. Indeed, I have 2 close friends, from both parties, that I 'joust' with at times - both having served in State Parliament, one, Nationally . I know  another, that I worked with years ago, that is still in State parliament, that is Bent  in so many ways, and I am aghast that he is still in office. 

One of the most satisfying things in this last election, for me, and, it appears many others, was to see our own resident Billionaire Politician,  who spent around $60 Million on his / their campaign - the most of any Party - get soundly kicked in the goolies / rejected by the voters. A F**wit of Epic proportions. 

 

I really appreciated all the text messages from our resident billionaire, if only I could have responded!The nuclear power plant idea may have succeeded 30 years...

I really appreciated all the text messages from our resident billionaire, if only I could have responded!

The nuclear power plant idea may have succeeded 30 years ago, but 1/3 of Australian houses have cheap rooftop solar, the cost of nuclear doesn't make sense.

A fast breeder reactor for generating ... isotopes may be useful for security.

How much of the cheap cost of the solar panels is due to any Australian government programs?

The Australian government spends $2.3 billion annually subsidizing the installation of rooftop solar, and $14.5 billion annually subsidizing coal fired power stations.

The average rooftop solar installation pays for itself in 3-4 years, it would be 5-6 years without the subsidies.

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5/20/2025 11:57pm Edited Date/Time 5/21/2025 1:31am
It’s not about “entitlement”. It’s creating a more progressive tax system so we don’t end up in the Second Gilded Age, which many historians and economists...

It’s not about “entitlement”. It’s creating a more progressive tax system so we don’t end up in the Second Gilded Age, which many historians and economists argue we are already in. It gives the middle class more of a chance and keeps the billionaires from holding all the political and economic power in the country. And again, hundreds of billions in wealth. He wouldn’t even notice having that taxed, and it could feed multiple starving children. And I’d argue society is much better when children aren’t starving.

Sully wrote:
Who are you to say what he would or wouldn't notice? I agree about the starving children, but that's what charities are for. I'd rather choose where...

Who are you to say what he would or wouldn't notice? 

I agree about the starving children, but that's what charities are for. I'd rather choose where my money goes than to have it confiscated at gunpoint and used to pay for some bloated government program. During fiscal year 2024, the IRS collected more than $5.1 trillion in tax revenue. That'll feed a shit load of starving children, and yet...we still have starving children (and a gigantic national debt). 

He would not notice one bit. Billions in wealth is unfathomable to 99.99% of people to ever live. If his current wealth did not grow or...

He would not notice one bit. Billions in wealth is unfathomable to 99.99% of people to ever live. If his current wealth did not grow or shrink till the end of time, he could spend an average of 1 million per day and it would take him over 800 years to exhaust his wealth. But let’s just assume a measly 1% return yearly on his assets. As we know, that’s way below the average. That means yearly his assets would grow by 3 billion. And spending that 1 million daily would obviously be 365 million spent. We are not talking millions here. This is just an unspeakable amount of wealth. Again I’ll use my original example to show how much it is. 1 million seconds is 11 days. 1 billion seconds is 31 years. And Bezos has a net worth of 300 billion. His lifestyle is the exact same whether everything over 1 billion gets taxed at 10% or not.

I agree charities are great! But they’re voluntary. They can and will dry up in an instant. I’d rather have a guarantee from the federal government that basic needs of children are met and if billionaires have to pay a little bit more to make that happen then I’m all for it.

Your IRS statistic. Yes they collect the money, but the House determines the budget. They decide where the money is spent and how. You are correct our debt keeps going up. You know what one major thing would help mitigate that?

"[charities] can and will dry up in an instant."
That's bullshit, and you know it. Americans voluntarily donated over half a trillion (~$580 billion) dollars to charity in 2023. That's a lot of well fed kids... 

"I’d rather have a guarantee from the federal government that basic needs of children are met"
That same federal government already collected $5.1 trillion in taxes last year, and the needs of children aren't being met. What makes you think taxing billionaires more will change that?

*Edited because the capital “b” in billion automatically made the stupid sunglass emoji. 

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5/21/2025 12:15am
I really appreciated all the text messages from our resident billionaire, if only I could have responded!The nuclear power plant idea may have succeeded 30 years...

I really appreciated all the text messages from our resident billionaire, if only I could have responded!

The nuclear power plant idea may have succeeded 30 years ago, but 1/3 of Australian houses have cheap rooftop solar, the cost of nuclear doesn't make sense.

A fast breeder reactor for generating ... isotopes may be useful for security.

How much of the cheap cost of the solar panels is due to any Australian government programs?

The Australian government spends $2.3 billion annually subsidizing the installation of rooftop solar, and $14.5 billion annually subsidizing coal fired power stations.The average rooftop solar installation...

The Australian government spends $2.3 billion annually subsidizing the installation of rooftop solar, and $14.5 billion annually subsidizing coal fired power stations.

The average rooftop solar installation pays for itself in 3-4 years, it would be 5-6 years without the subsidies.

I'm unclear on something. What I found was the $14.5 billion was for all fossil fuels, and includes expenditures towards many aspects such as extraction to increase production. There seems to be economic benefit there. 

Are the solar panels and necessary materials extracted in and made in Australia? Perhaps there is additional economic benefit with them too? I suppose lowering the use of coal locally allows more coal to be exported, so that would be an economic benefit. 

5/21/2025 1:19am

How much of the cheap cost of the solar panels is due to any Australian government programs?

The Australian government spends $2.3 billion annually subsidizing the installation of rooftop solar, and $14.5 billion annually subsidizing coal fired power stations.The average rooftop solar installation...

The Australian government spends $2.3 billion annually subsidizing the installation of rooftop solar, and $14.5 billion annually subsidizing coal fired power stations.

The average rooftop solar installation pays for itself in 3-4 years, it would be 5-6 years without the subsidies.

I'm unclear on something. What I found was the $14.5 billion was for all fossil fuels, and includes expenditures towards many aspects such as extraction to...

I'm unclear on something. What I found was the $14.5 billion was for all fossil fuels, and includes expenditures towards many aspects such as extraction to increase production. There seems to be economic benefit there. 

Are the solar panels and necessary materials extracted in and made in Australia? Perhaps there is additional economic benefit with them too? I suppose lowering the use of coal locally allows more coal to be exported, so that would be an economic benefit. 

You haven't asked who receives the economic benefit, companies, who are mostly owned by foreign entities, who receive the subsidies for coal fired power stations, or Australian households who receive subsidies to lower their power bills. Australian households have voted, that's why 1/3 of households have rooftop solar.

Many minerals for solar panels are extracted in Australia, but they are made in China, Australian consumers don't care, Australia is a mining country, not a manufacturing country.

Australian coal fired power stations are built next to coal mines, companies and state governments who own the coal fired power station also own the mines. Those mines don't have the infrastructure to export coal, coal is exported from other mines that do have the infrastructure.

The Australian government has announced a new subside for home batteries, reducing installed cost by 30%, payback for most households would be 6-8 years, which almost makes it financially viable.

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5/21/2025 1:22am
scott_nz wrote:
For the aussies in here , why do you think albo and labour won by so much ? Was it Dutton was uninspiring ? Or a...

For the aussies in here , why do you think albo and labour won by so much ? Was it Dutton was uninspiring ? Or a heap of people voting labour to keep the greens out ?  (Which happened here to an extent in 2020 )

Brainwashed to love their rulers without even knowing theyre owned. Same as England, same as Canada same as most white developed nations… with a few exceptions. 
Communism/socialism is at play big time. Australia has the most over-inflated Govt employed bureaucracy on earth. Paid well above Private sector. Disability insurance scheme funding many people and companies. 
Study that country to see how socialism can sink a modern 1st world nation rapidly. 
Land tax is a sure fire way to cripple farmers/land owners to reclaim land for state. Thats been floated i hear as well. 
 

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5/21/2025 1:29am

The US is not known for it's mega yacht builders!

The luxury yacht builders of Germany, Italy and the Netherlands would welcome Bezos's business...

https://www.yachting-pages.com/articles/top-10-luxury-yacht-builders.html

 

Sully wrote:
So with everything JM said, the only thing you took from it was "yacht"? You're either incredibly dense, or you're acting like a douche just for...

So with everything JM said, the only thing you took from it was "yacht"? You're either incredibly dense, or you're acting like a douche just for the sake of being a contrarian...

It's sad to see the US education system in action, let me explain it for you...If Bezos spent $100 million building a yacht, it would not...

It's sad to see the US education system in action, let me explain it for you...

If Bezos spent $100 million building a yacht, it would not be built in the US, the business and jobs @JM485 is outlining would be in Germany, Italy or the Netherlands. It would be a personal expense and not tax deductible.

If Bezos decided to build more Amazon warehouses in the US, it would provide business and people in the US with work during construction, and employment for people working inside the warehouses after construction. It would be a business expense for Amazon, and would be tax deductible.

Well, I guess you answered my either/or question; you’re just dense. 
Take out the word “yacht” and replace it with 30,000 square foot mansion in LA (or any other long term project that creates jobs), and JM’s point doesn’t change. The only thing that changes is you don’t get to give a smug, douchey answer. Have the best day ever. 

2
5/21/2025 1:59am
Sully wrote:
So with everything JM said, the only thing you took from it was "yacht"? You're either incredibly dense, or you're acting like a douche just for...

So with everything JM said, the only thing you took from it was "yacht"? You're either incredibly dense, or you're acting like a douche just for the sake of being a contrarian...

It's sad to see the US education system in action, let me explain it for you...If Bezos spent $100 million building a yacht, it would not...

It's sad to see the US education system in action, let me explain it for you...

If Bezos spent $100 million building a yacht, it would not be built in the US, the business and jobs @JM485 is outlining would be in Germany, Italy or the Netherlands. It would be a personal expense and not tax deductible.

If Bezos decided to build more Amazon warehouses in the US, it would provide business and people in the US with work during construction, and employment for people working inside the warehouses after construction. It would be a business expense for Amazon, and would be tax deductible.

Sully wrote:
Well, I guess you answered my either/or question; you’re just dense. Take out the word “yacht” and replace it with 30,000 square foot mansion in LA (or...

Well, I guess you answered my either/or question; you’re just dense. 
Take out the word “yacht” and replace it with 30,000 square foot mansion in LA (or any other long term project that creates jobs), and JM’s point doesn’t change. The only thing that changes is you don’t get to give a smug, douchey answer. Have the best day ever. 

JM's used a "megayacht" as an example, not an LA mansion, a "megayacht" would be made offshore, so would provide US jobs during construction.

or are you too dense to understand that.

3
5/21/2025 2:13am
scott_nz wrote:
For the aussies in here , why do you think albo and labour won by so much ? Was it Dutton was uninspiring ? Or a...

For the aussies in here , why do you think albo and labour won by so much ? Was it Dutton was uninspiring ? Or a heap of people voting labour to keep the greens out ?  (Which happened here to an extent in 2020 )

Brainwashed to love their rulers without even knowing theyre owned. Same as England, same as Canada same as most white developed nations… with a few exceptions. Communism/socialism...

Brainwashed to love their rulers without even knowing theyre owned. Same as England, same as Canada same as most white developed nations… with a few exceptions. 
Communism/socialism is at play big time. Australia has the most over-inflated Govt employed bureaucracy on earth. Paid well above Private sector. Disability insurance scheme funding many people and companies. 
Study that country to see how socialism can sink a modern 1st world nation rapidly. 
Land tax is a sure fire way to cripple farmers/land owners to reclaim land for state. Thats been floated i hear as well. 
 

"sink a modern 1st world nation rapidly"

LOL...

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