09 KX450 bogging/sputtering? (not fuel pump)

davis224
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davis224
Edited Date/Time 1/27/2012 1:31pm
My bike had started acting up, it started on a practice day, I landed off a jump that has a poor landing and you get on the gas hard after, and it just barely popped/missed, kept riding and it didnt happen again. Next week, racing at the same track, went through 2 practice sessions fine, and holeshot the first moto and had a nice lead on the first lap when I landed off that jump and my bike bogs down and spputters big time, I pull off, it instantly comes out of it and I finish the moto hesitantly and it doesnt do it again. 1st moto other class, exact same story. 2nd moto, track was freshly tilled and it starts doing it everywhere. Thinking the fuel pump might just be getting hot under a load with lower fuel levels, I tried keeping it full and put heat tape on my valve cover and bottom of my tank, doesn't make a difference. So reading on here and hearing for many people their bike had the same problem and replacing the fuel pump fixed it, I ordered a fuel pump. I rode yesterday and it's still doing it. Any ideas??!? I'm dying to race but this is a scary issue...
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motofab36
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motofab36 9/2/2010 6:32am
9/2/2010 6:32am
Break out the ole KTM 125...problem solved.

skynard
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skynard 9/2/2010 12:08pm
9/2/2010 12:08pm
vent hose on fuel tank.....?
Bret
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Bret 9/2/2010 12:22pm
9/2/2010 12:22pm
Is the engine stock, or modified?
What kind of fuel are you using?
Chili
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Chili 9/2/2010 4:26pm
9/2/2010 4:26pm
Start checking all wiring for a wire with the jacket worn through that is shorting out.

The Shop

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Cygnus
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Cygnus 9/2/2010 5:37pm
9/2/2010 5:37pm
The Kawi 450's suck! Just ask James or Chad. I am going to stay away from the FI bikes for just a bit. They aren't snowmobiles.Sick
davis224
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davis224 9/2/2010 5:46pm
9/2/2010 5:46pm
Bret wrote:
Is the engine stock, or modified?
What kind of fuel are you using?
stock. bad fuel was my first guess, i looked at the fuel filter in the old fuel pump and it was dirty, so i bought a white gas can and used 93 octane from shell, put the first couple gallons in my truck in case of stale gas in the lines.
davis224
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davis224 9/2/2010 5:48pm
9/2/2010 5:48pm
motofab36 wrote:
Break out the ole KTM 125...problem solved.

tempting... i have all the parts to get her in decent working order, but just have not had a spare second to do anything with it, I've even got someone wanting to buy it. I did take a short spin on an 07 CR125 at work the other day, made me drool
Highsider
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Highsider 9/3/2010 6:38am
9/3/2010 6:38am
put the first couple gallons in my truck in case of stale gas in the lines.

Good idea, I had never heard of. Thanks!
Bret
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Bret 9/3/2010 11:34am
9/3/2010 11:34am
Bret wrote:
Is the engine stock, or modified?
What kind of fuel are you using?
davis224 wrote:
stock. bad fuel was my first guess, i looked at the fuel filter in the old fuel pump and it was dirty, so i bought a...
stock. bad fuel was my first guess, i looked at the fuel filter in the old fuel pump and it was dirty, so i bought a white gas can and used 93 octane from shell, put the first couple gallons in my truck in case of stale gas in the lines.
I would check for the following:
-clogged injector
-pinched or worn wire somewhere
-loose spark plug or plug cap
-intake air leak
-crud in the fuel tank and fuel lines
davis224
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davis224 9/5/2010 5:17pm
9/5/2010 5:17pm
Rode today, and after 3 laps the bike straight up dies and will not restart this time, i push it back to my truck, pop the tank off, pull the plug cap and check for spark, it either had none at first or i hadn't grounded the plug properly, but I saw a good strong spark, and there was gas in the fuel line when i disconnected it. Put it back together, fired it up first kick, rode about 25 minutes catiously, not doing any big jumps but charging hard elsewhere, never acted up again. Sat for a while, then did about 15 minutes of hard riding and it never acted up once. Maybe it could have been the plug cap, doubtful, but possible. Going back tomorrow morning to ride a prepped track, it always did it worst on a freshly tilled track when I was hard on the gas the whole time.

I did hear today though from a friend, that he just talked to someone else who had the same problem and it ended up being a cracked throttle body. There was a recall for this from Kawi, but my throttle body wasn't in the lot # that was said to be bad. I have a friend that is willing to let me rob parts off of his bike tomorrow in case it does it again.
xnationalwrench 9/5/2010 5:43pm
9/5/2010 5:43pm
You might check/disconnect the kill button and see if that could be the problem.
bd
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bd 9/5/2010 5:46pm
9/5/2010 5:46pm
Cracked throttle body happened to a few other posters. At the time it was expensive and took along time to get. Might want to break out the two stroke.
racer369
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racer369 9/5/2010 6:15pm
9/5/2010 6:15pm
does kawi have the kill switch so that when you crash bike will shut down auotmaticly? friend had one of those go bad. mind boooogggling! finally figured it out
davis224
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davis224 9/6/2010 6:15pm
9/6/2010 6:15pm
Did it again this morning. Ran fine first session, started acting up then started bogging worse than ever, died, pushed it back to the truck, popped the tank off, and didn't have spark for about 5 minutes, then fired right back up. I'm thinking heat caused breakdown in the coil or the stator, going to test both tommorrow
CamP
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CamP 9/7/2010 6:24am
9/7/2010 6:24am
Sounds like a stator.
Bret
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Bret 9/7/2010 11:29am
9/7/2010 11:29am
I am leaning towards one of the following:
-stator
-pinched/broken/chaffed wire(s)
-clogged or pinched fuel vent
-dirt or water in the fuel
davis224
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davis224 9/7/2010 7:50pm
9/7/2010 7:50pm
Wires are all fine, its not a fuel vent, and I do not have dirt or water in my gas. Turns out the coil tester I thought we had broke a couple years ago and the shop never replaced it, I'll try plugging it in tommorrow morning (i hope it works with the older kawi diagnostic software)
CamP
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CamP 9/7/2010 8:07pm
9/7/2010 8:07pm
Coils rarely go bad.

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Bret
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Bret 9/7/2010 10:12pm
9/7/2010 10:12pm
Makes me wonder if the previous owner changed the ECU settings. You could have the shop could load the stock settings and see if that solves the problem.
adamdf
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adamdf 9/7/2010 11:08pm
9/7/2010 11:08pm
Bret wrote:
Makes me wonder if the previous owner changed the ECU settings. You could have the shop could load the stock settings and see if that solves...
Makes me wonder if the previous owner changed the ECU settings. You could have the shop could load the stock settings and see if that solves the problem.
good suggestion..., i suggest asking one of the gurus at thumpertalk....one of those guys has to know...they always doo
davis224
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davis224 9/8/2010 5:06am
9/8/2010 5:06am
Bret wrote:
Makes me wonder if the previous owner changed the ECU settings. You could have the shop could load the stock settings and see if that solves...
Makes me wonder if the previous owner changed the ECU settings. You could have the shop could load the stock settings and see if that solves the problem.
I am the original owner and I work at the shop, and we don't have the EFI tuner for the bike, we don't sell enough of them to have a need for it
davis224
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davis224 9/8/2010 5:09am
9/8/2010 5:09am
CamP wrote:
Coils rarely go bad.
I know this, but fuel pumps often go bad, so I'm throwing out all assumptions on this one. We joke at the shop about people who bring us coils to test because they think that's the reason their quad is running bad, they think it's electrical and that's the first electrical part they see and easiest to take off, so it HAS to be that.
CamP
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CamP 9/8/2010 6:27am
9/8/2010 6:27am
CamP wrote:
Coils rarely go bad.
davis224 wrote:
I know this, but fuel pumps often go bad, so I'm throwing out all assumptions on this one. We joke at the shop about people who...
I know this, but fuel pumps often go bad, so I'm throwing out all assumptions on this one. We joke at the shop about people who bring us coils to test because they think that's the reason their quad is running bad, they think it's electrical and that's the first electrical part they see and easiest to take off, so it HAS to be that.
I thought you said you already installed a new fuel pump?
davis224
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davis224 9/9/2010 5:23am
9/9/2010 5:23am
I did, I was just saying the logical explanation for what my symptom was was a fuel pump, so when you said coils rarely go bad, I was saying I'm not using any assumptions.

But...... I brought my bike in early to work and started doing the self diagnostic procedure on it where you disconnect the condenser and hook a battery up to the harness and a light to another connector and it will flash a code if one has been tripped. I had someone hold the battery onto the connector, I was turned around reading the manual when I heard a POP! I turned around and there was smoke everywhere, I'd left the connector going towards the condenser dangling in the open to where the person holding the battery thought I'd set it out as what they needed to put power to, so I now have a friend condenser. But when he put power to the right connector it threw no codes and the ignition coil was included in the list of failed part codes, so I'm heavily leaning towards stator now. I'll have to wait for my condenser to get in, take my bike to the track and get it to act up again and check stator output.
Chili
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Chili 9/18/2010 5:47am
9/18/2010 5:47am
So did you ever figure it out?
davis224
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davis224 10/13/2010 3:12pm
10/13/2010 3:12pm
Not the stator either. Borrowed one off my friends bike and it's still the same problem.
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level 10/14/2010 12:03pm
10/14/2010 12:03pm Edited Date/Time 10/14/2010 12:07pm
I'm had a similar problem on my 09 KX450. Was out riding and within 5 laps it backfired then lost power then was able to ride for about 10 more seconds before it sputtered and died. Tried to crank it but it wouldn't. Waited 10 minutes and it fired back up and it hasn't acted back up yet but I'm afraid the problem will resurface. I called my mechanic and he said it sounded like water in the fuel or filter but unless it acted up on him there was no way to diagnose it. Sucks and scary.


P.S. Mine happened after I got on the gas real hard on a straight. I was full throttle 3rd or 4th gear. That's when it backfired/missed and then started it's problems. So it sounds like we are having similar issues?
davis224
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davis224 10/14/2010 4:59pm
10/14/2010 4:59pm
level wrote:
I'm had a similar problem on my 09 KX450. Was out riding and within 5 laps it backfired then lost power then was able to ride...
I'm had a similar problem on my 09 KX450. Was out riding and within 5 laps it backfired then lost power then was able to ride for about 10 more seconds before it sputtered and died. Tried to crank it but it wouldn't. Waited 10 minutes and it fired back up and it hasn't acted back up yet but I'm afraid the problem will resurface. I called my mechanic and he said it sounded like water in the fuel or filter but unless it acted up on him there was no way to diagnose it. Sucks and scary.


P.S. Mine happened after I got on the gas real hard on a straight. I was full throttle 3rd or 4th gear. That's when it backfired/missed and then started it's problems. So it sounds like we are having similar issues?
Exact same symptom. Happens first whenever I'm under a heavy load. does it faster and more often on loamy soil when I'm on the gas hard all the time. I ordered a coil and plug cap just to test them since they are cheap. Going to ride sunday, I'll let you know how it goes.
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level 10/16/2010 9:34am
10/16/2010 9:34am
Yeah, let me know for sure that way it will give me something to go on with mine as far as where to look. I think we are having the same issue. The soil was pretty loamy when it happened on mine also like under a load. I really think were having the same problem. Mine just hasn't acted back up yet but I haven't rode a whole bunch since then either.
davis224
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davis224 10/18/2010 5:09am
10/18/2010 5:09am
Wasn't the coil or cap. Now the bike has progressed to not starting at all, should make diagnosing it 100x easier. About all that's left is the tipover sensor and the CDI box, then the wiring harness......

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