AMA Petition Update

DC
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8/30/2010 3:32pm
I do care but after being berated for not getting it through last time, I have kind of given up on the idea for pro motocross and SX. We run them even at our amateur races, but there's never the fear there of Marvin Musquin showing up on a factory 250 KTM two-stroke and smoking the field,

We did the tests, TWMX did the tests, MXA did the tests: the two-stroke 250 still outruns a 250F and by opening the door to help privateers, you just give factory riders more of an advantage in that they could choose which bike to ride when. I know you mean well, but i personally don't see how it could work and not have an effect that hurts the racing more than it helps it.

But it was the guy who wished I had cancer that really ended this fight for me. That one hit a little close to home. Sorry.

DC
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DC
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8/30/2010 3:33pm
I was busy working on the track at Steel City.

DC
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DC
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8/30/2010 3:41pm Edited Date/Time 8/30/2010 3:42pm
A 125cc development class sounds like a good idea. We've been talking about that for a few months now, the 150 race this weekend and at Pala is an experiment.



DC

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Localsteez
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8/30/2010 3:42pm
Wow someone wished you had cancer? thats horrible. Is the 125 support class a possibility or what are your thoughts on that Davey?

The Shop

Localsteez
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8/30/2010 3:49pm
whoops i jumped the gate
englishman
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8/30/2010 3:50pm Edited Date/Time 8/30/2010 3:52pm
DC wrote:
I do care but after being berated for not getting it through last time, I have kind of given up on the idea for pro motocross...
I do care but after being berated for not getting it through last time, I have kind of given up on the idea for pro motocross and SX. We run them even at our amateur races, but there's never the fear there of Marvin Musquin showing up on a factory 250 KTM two-stroke and smoking the field,

We did the tests, TWMX did the tests, MXA did the tests: the two-stroke 250 still outruns a 250F and by opening the door to help privateers, you just give factory riders more of an advantage in that they could choose which bike to ride when. I know you mean well, but i personally don't see how it could work and not have an effect that hurts the racing more than it helps it.

But it was the guy who wished I had cancer that really ended this fight for me. That one hit a little close to home. Sorry.

DC
MX Sports
Yeah that is a BS thing to say - some people.

But why not just have a 250 & 500 class with stroke being irrelevant ?? If a 250 2 outruns a 250 4 then surely for a privateer racing the nationals to open it up would lower thier expenses and make them more competitive?

The factories would never let the works guys run 2 strokes - only Yam & KTM still make them anyways( boutique Euro mfg's not withstanding).

That " 4 strokes can have a few extra cc's " rule was written back in the dark ages when 4 strokes were grossly overweight and underpowered. Time to sling it in the round file.
WORCSRacer
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8/30/2010 3:53pm Edited Date/Time 8/30/2010 4:04pm
DC wrote:
I do care but after being berated for not getting it through last time, I have kind of given up on the idea for pro motocross...
I do care but after being berated for not getting it through last time, I have kind of given up on the idea for pro motocross and SX. We run them even at our amateur races, but there's never the fear there of Marvin Musquin showing up on a factory 250 KTM two-stroke and smoking the field,

We did the tests, TWMX did the tests, MXA did the tests: the two-stroke 250 still outruns a 250F and by opening the door to help privateers, you just give factory riders more of an advantage in that they could choose which bike to ride when. I know you mean well, but i personally don't see how it could work and not have an effect that hurts the racing more than it helps it.

But it was the guy who wished I had cancer that really ended this fight for me. That one hit a little close to home. Sorry.

DC
MX Sports
Davey you, and what at this point appears you alone, can lead the charge to fix this. AMA PRO racing ignited an arms war in motocross by allowing Yamaha to bring their 4 stroke MXer in and exploit the rules as they were written in 1997. Thank God because we now have the most awesome MX bikes in history because if it. The rules can be modified without the world coming to an end! Case in point, somebody could see the hand writing on the wall and those rules were modified down to what we have now. So deal with this! The two stroke in modern MX is dead and will stay that way if things don't change.



You don't need to worry about letting 250's run on 250's, fuck that, its stupid. Just modify the rules to be more reflective of reality say 175 and 350 for 2 strokes. Then lets see what happens. Stop worrying about if thats perfect, its not but the market and competition will sort it out and if we're lucky it will start another arms race and the manufacturers and after market win via fresh bike sales.



Take the lead from Dungy's sponsor: JUST DO IT!!!
WhKnuckle
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8/30/2010 4:28pm
You can get 500,000 signitures and if the factories don't want two strokes in the races, they aren't going to be in the races. Privateers? Name someone on the top level of the sport that gives the first damn about them. If anyone cared about privateers, they'd never have gotten rid of 500s - that was the class for privateers.

You like two strokes? Then ride the Vet class or find a time machine.
CRFracer117
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8/30/2010 4:50pm
I know how cliche I'm 2069 the most adorn last digits by the king of spodes 69.
Bucky Wheat
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8/30/2010 4:53pm
DC wrote:
I do care but after being berated for not getting it through last time, I have kind of given up on the idea for pro motocross...
I do care but after being berated for not getting it through last time, I have kind of given up on the idea for pro motocross and SX. We run them even at our amateur races, but there's never the fear there of Marvin Musquin showing up on a factory 250 KTM two-stroke and smoking the field,

We did the tests, TWMX did the tests, MXA did the tests: the two-stroke 250 still outruns a 250F and by opening the door to help privateers, you just give factory riders more of an advantage in that they could choose which bike to ride when. I know you mean well, but i personally don't see how it could work and not have an effect that hurts the racing more than it helps it.

But it was the guy who wished I had cancer that really ended this fight for me. That one hit a little close to home. Sorry.

DC
MX Sports
Someone wished DC cancer ? That's pathetic.
Bucky Wheat
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8/30/2010 4:58pm
Also #2072
8/30/2010 6:31pm
DC wrote:
A 125cc development class sounds like a good idea. We've been talking about that for a few months now, the 150 race this weekend and at...
A 125cc development class sounds like a good idea. We've been talking about that for a few months now, the 150 race this weekend and at Pala is an experiment.



DC

MX Sports
We all appreciate your efforts DC.
When you are in a high position, you must learn to ignore the ignorant. Imagine how RC felt when he was booed to death (and look at the respect he now has for his efforts).
Please dont give up on the 2 stroke. Amazing advances in 2 stroke technology would be the result and motocross would greatly benefit.
We are calling upon your position in MX and your roots in 2 stroke MX to put forth your full effort.
When you run up the stairs tonight bust out a little BBRRAAAAPPPP and you will know what is right.
Thanks!
racerj313
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8/30/2010 7:05pm
2086! I like the 150-175 and 300ish cc idea the best. seems at that size the two stroke would be about on par with the four strokes. Try to make it even and let the public sort it out.
Tiki
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Fantasy
8/30/2010 7:16pm
Hey, since bike sales are through the roof and the manufacturers are going to be pleased as punch to drag out the old tooling, Im sure this will be a resounding yes from them. Not to mention the GHG taxes that will be imposed around 2012 the manufacturers in America will have to pay for producing gross polluters. OH man, I think you are all on to something. Not that it has ANYTHING to do with powers beyond the AMA and Mr. Combs.

But Im stoked you all got behind something to better the sport without any real knowledge of the real world. I say a class for Jet Bikes should be allowed.

I wish you all luck. I dont think you will be happy, but I signed it to help.

You are signer #2089
aggiemoto99
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8/30/2010 7:24pm
DC wrote:
I do care but after being berated for not getting it through last time, I have kind of given up on the idea for pro motocross...
I do care but after being berated for not getting it through last time, I have kind of given up on the idea for pro motocross and SX. We run them even at our amateur races, but there's never the fear there of Marvin Musquin showing up on a factory 250 KTM two-stroke and smoking the field,

We did the tests, TWMX did the tests, MXA did the tests: the two-stroke 250 still outruns a 250F and by opening the door to help privateers, you just give factory riders more of an advantage in that they could choose which bike to ride when. I know you mean well, but i personally don't see how it could work and not have an effect that hurts the racing more than it helps it.

But it was the guy who wished I had cancer that really ended this fight for me. That one hit a little close to home. Sorry.

DC
MX Sports
I think this petition wants a more fair displacement rule aka 150 and 300.

That's a little better, no? Heck KTM doesn't even sell a 125 anymore.

I think a development class would be perfect, 125 only. Sadly the manu's such as honda would throw a shit fit since they hate 2 strokes and no longer make a 125.

But I also think a new form of the 4 stroke nationals are needed. I will not take credit for this idea (it's someone elses) but this sport is dying for a "minor league" such as the old 4 stroke nationals were.

But smart logistical planning could make it a great series...aka have 4 rounds ONLY in texas so travel can be easy (and schedule each round geographically in transit order) then 4 rounds in cali then 4 rounds in florida or something like that (although probably cali texas then florida in that order) This time cater to the TWO Stroke more (though not a two stroke national) by rules that give it an upper hand such as 250vs 250.


Anyways, DC why not at least allow 300 vs 450 and 150 vs 250? That, at least, seems reasonable if we cant get a true fair displacement vs displacement


You honestly can not look at where our economy and sport is and say it's in a good place. and 10k new bikes are HERE NOW with 4k resale a year later. That's truly pitiful.
8/30/2010 7:42pm
DC we know that the 250 2 strokes out run the stock 250 4s but honestly a full fledged PC bike prob can do pretty decent against the 2 strokes and you know as well as i do the factory riders with still ride 4 strokes its the true privateers that will benefit from it in the pro ranksbtu comeon help so yes the PC and FC boys really dont have nothing to worry about but come on help the real privateers out by letting the 250 vs 250 rule stand even in the WMX !
mooch
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Fantasy
8/30/2010 7:54pm
#2094

Why are some folks so freaking negative when it comes to someone saving $ and having fun riding a 2 stroke?
Void Main
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8/30/2010 7:58pm
DC again only seems to care that a 250 2-stroke can outperform a 250 4-stroke but doesn't seem to care that a 450 4-stroke currently outperforms a 250 2-stroke. Seems a little biased to me. For the record, I do not wish any incurable diseases upon the man.
SwapperMX
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8/30/2010 8:10pm
I am a two stroke die-hard, but I can see now why DC stays away from most discussions like this one. Either way he cant win. He has a lot of people to try and impress while still keeping the best interests of the sport in mind. I, more than anyone want to see smokers on the line at the Pro level, but understand that there is more than one person in the world that we need to convince of this. In the meantime I will have a blast riding and racing my 250 two stroke.
2TYam27
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8/30/2010 8:13pm
If it were not for my fear of the influence the pro racing rules will have on future two stroke production and development, I would care less about what the pros ride. It seemed to be so easy to adjust the displacements in the late 90s. Why is it hard now? I am not asking for equal displacement, but some attempt to make it more fair would be nice!
OldYZRider1
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8/30/2010 8:26pm
well with ktm making a bolt on 300 kit for the 250sx it should be allowed as its factory offering.. now if we could get them...
well with ktm making a bolt on 300 kit for the 250sx it should be allowed as its factory offering.. now if we could get them to lower the homologation rules so AJ's bikes coud be legal then they could have the 300 from service and be within the rules... Evil
Amen to changing the homologation requirements. I think it would be much better to have a dozen manufacturers competing versus the current situation. Let the smaller manufacturers and builders like Service Honda have a shot.
jaeckle
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8/30/2010 8:28pm
Maybe we should all go back to school at nights, get a real job and put ourselves in positions to afford this sport and attend the pro events. That might be easier than trying to change the world. At least we would have control over the outcome.
Weeks381fan
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8/30/2010 8:40pm Edited Date/Time 8/30/2010 8:46pm
2099! What is DC doing to our sport? First taking away our Sunday racing and making mx too much like the sx which is a huge rip off! Now this? I always liked the guy but his old man would never agree with what is going on in this sport now! Come on man!
MX7MX
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8/30/2010 8:46pm
or everyone can accept the way things are and move on. Either deal with it, accept it or don't. Theres really nothing any of us can do!
seth505
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8/30/2010 9:12pm
Ya, I'm not sure how one could argue that privateers being able to ride a 250 2stroke would not save them money in the long run and help pro racing expand

...but no, 2strokes aren't "factory" or "new technology" so it's better to bury the sport than help it grow (end sarcasm)
MX7MX
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8/30/2010 9:19pm
I guess next we should give the privateers 450's to race so they can be competitive.
ando
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8/31/2010 3:23am
I understand the sentiment and logic behind this movement, but I still see too many barriers for any change to occur:

1. OEM's are integral to the sport. It happens in every form of elite level motorsport - the OEM's typically have the most money at stake, so they rightly have a strong say in what goes.

2. Only KTM makes a current, competitive two stroke. I can't see the rest tooling up again to build two strokes.

3. Why would any OEM want to develop, design and manufacture two different bikes for the same class of racing? I know KTM does but their business is pretty different to the Japanese OEM's.

4. "Dirty" internal combustion engine powered machines of any sort, if not already, will in the near future be outlawed or taxed. Whatever arguments you might want to make otherwise, four strokes are viewed as cleaner or at the very least able to be made cleaner than current two strokes by the OEM's, EPA etc.

5. Every other form of elite motorsport has tight rules on specifications that are mainly focussed on one thing - to give everybody an even playing field. Allowing two strokes back into Pro racing is too uneven - there is no way of ensuring parity. One of two things will happen - (a) it will be pretty obvious, pretty quickly, which option (2 or 4) is better, and the other will die a natural death because no-one wants to be on inferior equipment; or (b) the sport will descend into endless rule changes each year trying to keep "parity". Since no-one wants (b) (especially the OEM's and the teams), they will do whatever they can to avoid it, including making option (a) fit their current agenda. Hell, even the two stroke proponents can't agree on what capacity would be comparable.

6. This is aimed at a very small percentage of the MX world - non-factory or non-factory supported professional racers. Too small to make a valid argument for changing the rules so substantially.
DC
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8/31/2010 3:50am
Ruining the sport with Saturday nationals? Come on.. And my dad was around in 1997 when Doug Henry showed up on one and dramatically changed the future of the sport. He always told me to hold races for the bikes the factories make, and right now it's four-strokes. Sorry.

DC
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Weeks381fan
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8/31/2010 3:55am
They could have just left the damn sport alone when it was perfect and at its peak. You know those days when we raced on Sunday and rode 2 strokes. Someone always has to come along and make a change. Since our sport went to 4 strokes, Saturday racing and timed qualifying everyone got cheated except the big dogs who collect the cash.
SwapperMX
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8/31/2010 4:18am
DC wrote:
Ruining the sport with Saturday nationals? Come on.. And my dad was around in 1997 when Doug Henry showed up on one and dramatically changed the...
Ruining the sport with Saturday nationals? Come on.. And my dad was around in 1997 when Doug Henry showed up on one and dramatically changed the future of the sport. He always told me to hold races for the bikes the factories make, and right now it's four-strokes. Sorry.

DC
MX Sports
Hey mate,

I am a die hard two stroke fan, but please dont take anything some very passionate fans say to heart. No matter what decisions are made, someone will be disgruntled and will say something rash. Just please keep the best interests of the sport your number one focus. That is all I will ask.

Considering a 125cc only class would do wonders for the sport and would bring many people back through the gates. Would also generate huge amounts of interest world wide.

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