So to start 2 years ago I had a bad crash broke my femur, right hand and pelvis. After multiple surgeries I went septic and almost died it was pretty gnarly. I just started riding again this past summer. The tracks by me are soft, deep and rutted. Prior to the crash I was a mid/front pack A guy, I like to think I was fast but we all do. But I’ve been racing since I could walk pretty much and never struggled like this. Specifically it’s the arm pump and my right hand, which has multiple plates in it. I get arm pump almost instantly to the point I can barely open and close my hand normally, which makes it almost impossible to be smooth on the throttle and it becomes almost choppy unintentionally when I accelerate, which makes me completely avoid jumping for the most part now cause I know if I have another crash like my last one that’s it. I promise it’s not form or not gripping with my legs, but it’s to the point I can barely ride, I can maybe to half a lap at pace with the A guys and then I’m done I can only putt around after that, so I dropped myself down to C class so I’m not in the way. I ride a 17 350 sxf and it has a lot of vibration, idk if it’s just a insane amount coming through the bars and I just can’t tell, I also run my steering pretty loose, like the wind could blow and move my front end on the stand lol, I run my suspension on the softer side but that’s cause of how soft and rutted the tracks by me are, I’ve tried different settings thinking maybe it was that but didn’t help. I’m planning on dishing out the money for the Fasstcompany flex bars even tho I really don’t think they’ll fix the issue. I’ve tried different grips, bigger more cushion, thinner, didn’t help. I’m just looking for some help, hope, tips on why this is as bad as it is, riding and racing has been my life my whole life and right now I’m feeling like I’m done. Thank you for the therapy session lol
Have you been tested for carpal tunnel? You coming back from some gnarly injuries take your time, do what you can do…maybe just work on rut/ turn tracks until you start getting things figured out…I got busted up last year, not as bad as you but it hurt my confidence. I been working through it, narrowed it down to the actual track where I got injured, as I have been riding better at other tracks, so I have been avoiding that track until I am ready to overcome the fear. Get back to basics, maybe even some trail/ woods riding….
No but I really think it has a lot to do with the plates in my hand, they’re all across my palm I’m thinking the vibration normal vibrations from my bike are probably to much for it, then throw a rough track on top of it. Smoother harder tracks definitely don’t do as much damage. But my local has been tilling it way deeper then normal if I was healthy I’d probably love it I love sand and deeper tracks but I guess not anymore lol. I was just at the end of my rope today.
my business partner is 6'7 275# and is a beast by most measures. he's had some similar life modifying injuries. a few months ago got the flex bars strictly for comfort and is a fan. we do desert though and don't ride for cash lol. it's crazy but me at 6'-I'll ride his kx450 equipped for a giraffe and the comfort is amazing
I had a ton of surgeries too left elbow nerve etc that made my left pinky &
next finger numb threw my hand into my wrist. Rear of shoulder rotar cuff the front is bad too. That pumps my rt arm up bad in 2 laps. Back, neck, broken wrist all joints destroyed . I still go wo & do 4-5 lap heaters. I,m real good on being in a good position on the bike. But It’s the bike it literally it corners & jumps perfectly on its own. Practice bike I had stock oil from 03 when it was made super plush landing in square holes. 04 cr125 tacky grips 04 cr125 .
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flex bars will def help, ive broke n both wrists and vibration used to kill me, the flex bars was a noticeable improvement. Also this is probably more placebo then anything but i bought one of those massage guns off amazong and took the smallest sharpest attachment it has and turn it on high and beat the shit out of my forearms and palms and wrists. my thought was if it can handle this vibration it can handle the bike.
Where do you get the arm pump? Top of forearm, bottom of forearm, wrist?
Any issues moving your wrist, hand, or fingers?
Which throttle cam are you using?
Ahh the mysterious Arm Pump phenomenon!!!!!
It's muscle fatigue and the build up of by-products (lactic acid) at a rate greater than what your body can buffer. (Buffering Efficiency)
There are a few different potential causes----------- which leads to confusion as tried and true remedies can work for some but not others.
This will be long, but hopefully it helps a few riders out there.
The 3 categories of Arm Pump causes: Psychological, Physiological, Bike Set Up
Psychological:
In general this is when people try too hard and succumb to the adrenaline in the moment. The adrenaline spike leads to riding tight, shortened breath, and making mistakes which require even more strength for correction. Especially common early in the season or when returning from injury.
The remedy for this is to put yourself into the riding/racing situation more frequently. The more accustomed you are to the situation the less adrenaline will cloud your judgement and movements. Eventually you'll be able to push hard and ride aggressively without the pump.
It can helps to make an effort at relaxing your fingers in the air (before you pump up) and remind yourself to breathe normally.
You also can try riding at 90%, you'll likely not get arm pump as quickly and your lap times will still be really close, maybe even better.
Physiological: I've broken this into 3 parts;
a. Training
b. Structure
c. Diet
This relates to your body's baseline buffering efficiency and the interplay with your structure and cellular health.
a. Training: I put this first because I think it's the one that will help the most people.
The remedy: Help your body become more efficient at buffering the by-products of muscle contraction.
For some people this means building strength so that your muscles do not work as hard.
For some people this means doing exercise to build by product buffering efficiency, which delays or eliminates the onset of Pump.
The best strategy to build buffering efficiency is exercise while being out of breath enough that you cannot carry on a conversation, but easy enough that you can continue the effort for 20-60 minutes. You'll notice that eventually it feels like the muscles you are working are turning to concrete, but you are still not gasping for air. This is called your aerobic threshold.
*You don't have to AT work outs with your arms. Any workout where you sustain AT will improve your body's buffering efficiency, that's why running and cycling will reduce risk of arm pump.
b. Structure:
Injuries and medical intervention such as metal plates can negatively impact your musculoskeletal structure and cellular function. This can cause extra effort required for an action, compensating by using "the wrong" muscles, and disruptions to your cellular function (buffering efficiency).
Sometimes inserting hardware is your best option depending on the nature of the injury, I'm not totally against it.
The remedy: Identify and correct as many structural deficiencies as possible.
Common strategies that help: Chiropractic, Yoga, Physical Therapy, Building core strength (lower back pain and hernias are very common, core strength protects you), The goal is the restore your body to as close to optimal physical structure as possible. This results in improving your baseline buffering efficiency AND reducing any extra energy requirements or muscle recruitments to complete tasks. For example, using your arms to help stand from a chair. A more efficient body will reduce the risk of developing arm pump by responding more quickly and with less effort to the inputs required for riding a dirtbike, especially maintaining control while going fast. This is why Technique adjustment is a popular solution to arm pump, but without an adequate balance and function of your body, you'll always struggle with technique.
Less common strategies: Removing metal in your body and reducing exposure to Electro Magnetic Radiation.
Every cell in your body operates with electricity, disrupting the current will causes poor cellular function.
(Before you call me crazy, have you heard of electrolytes? Look up what they do.
For the less sophisticated, remember when you were a kid and it was "fun" to bite down with a tooth filling on a foil gum wrapper? Where does the shock come from?)
The metal in your body will alter the electrical flow of cellular energy.
Exposure to EMR (Wifi router, cell phone, smart appliances, etc.) will also disrupt the function of your cells.
You want to minimize EMR as much as possible so that your cells can stay tuned to the frequency generated by the Earth.
Disrupting your cellular energy will slow your rate of Buffering and slow/disrupt your balance and reactions to the motorcycle, both outcomes increase your susceptibility to arm pump.
For an extreme example, if you climb a cell phone tower, getting close enough to the EMR source will make you black out. Holding a cell phone isn't at that high of intensity, but there are negative outcomes are related to long term exposure.
c. Diet: In general you want to Avoid Processed foods and seed oils. The Weston A Price foundation has the best real health information I've come across. It's free and no BS.
Your goal should be to get to a solid state and develop a strong gut microbiome which allows your body to operate efficiently, which YES, includes Buffering Lactic Acid and other by-products more efficiently. This will not only help you be able to respond to physical stressors (arm pump) but also prevent you from getting sick, and it'll make your brain work better.
That being said, in the short term, supplementing with a little baking soda (mixed in water) will help buffer lactic acid for many people. It's not as effective as having a good diet, but it's cheap and easy to try. Don't add too much Baking Soda or you'll shit your pants.
Bike Set Up
This is the easy one 😄.
Typically I like to start only with handlebar and lever position, keeping everything else stock until it's very obvious it needs to be changed. Otherwise I've ended up chasing my tail.
Another common mistake, sitting on the bike in the garage isn't the same as your riding posture, especially when going fast. It sucks to waste a day riding (or racing) to test adjustments, but it's better to waste 1 day than to chase a setting for 6 months.
That's it! Good luck! Shout me out when you get on the podiums.
Diet? Hydration? Have you tried stretching completely before and during? You can get a hand exercise band thing that works the muscles that open your hand, I have a big imbalance from years of farm work and wrenching and I’ve considered that.
As others have stated carpal tunnel could be an issue, esp if you have scar tissue build up from your recovery. Some guys use special bar mounts that dampen vibes as well.
2 years isn’t quite enough to get full use and healing back imo, my ankle I broke skating was usable at 2 years but I remember it being tight, as opposed to now where it’s as good as the other. Plate on one side one screw on inside and broke my foot. I would try the band thing or see if a hand specialist has some rehab exercises you can do. In my opinion lots of scar tissue restricting movement and blood flow.
Honestly it feels like my whole arm lol but I guess more so the bottom/wrist, and yeah my hand basically feels like it’s cramping up I guess is the best way to describe it. I use ODI grips which I think they only come with the more “aggressive” cam for my bike.
If vibration is bothering you, look into Lance Smith's XC Gear Mako 360, its a game changer.
Sounds like gripping too tight AND vibration. Two data points: a CR250 I had long ago has solid bar mounts and started getting the worst arm pump out of nowhere.
Also, my 350 vibrates a lot more than my counterbalanced Husky TC250. Didn’t realize it until I spent some time on the 250 again and then back to the 350.
When I rode a 350 a couple times I noticed a lot more vibration from the bars and foot pegs compared to my 250F. And I have Renthal Twinwall bars on my bike. Did not like the vibration at all, but I did like the motor. Maybe try some dampening in the bars like foam or some rubber? Worth a shot. Maybe a piece of inner tube between the frame and the foot pegs.
Yeah I definitely think I’m gripping to tight in some areas, I need to work on that for sure the track was abnormally rough this weekend also and they’ve been grooming it deeper then that have in the past. I was fine earlier in the day but as the track got rougher I could tell I was tensing up despite trying to stay loose. But there’s some days I ride perfect and it still happens, vibration is 100% a contributing factor I tried harder polymers in the bar mounts as my stock ones were cooked after the crash, but didn’t really notice any difference in dampening I’ve been hearing a lot of good things about the flexxbars people swear by them when it comes to vibration dampening, 400 is steep for some bars but might be worth it at this point. Also I’ve been struggling with suspension set up, I just got them back from a revalve as I put on some weight, and have been trying to find some comfort still.
Yeah I love mine, obviously as I’m the original owner on a 2017 lol. Throw a vortex ecu and a pipe on it and it becomes a whole different animal. But it definitely has a lot of vibration I have a older 250 2 stroke and I’d put it up there with that in regards to the vibration you feel in the bars. I just think the plates in my hand and the vibration through the bars is making for a bad combination cause the pump I get in my left arm is tolerable, no where near as bad as what I get in my right arm and what I feel in my right hand which is the one with plates.
Yeah I’m in between the mako and the flexxbars I’ve heard great things about both. At this point I might need both lol.
The Mako is the better option all around IMO, especially if vibration is what you are after. You can run them super stiff or crazy flexible and soft depending what polymers you run.
Also id try some traditional glue on grips, if you have bigger hands even try the larger ODI rogues for even more vibration softening.
The things that always helped me with arm pump were thicker grips and higher levers. I even used to wrap my handlebars with cloth tape so the grips barely went on - it makes the grip swell up and your contact point gets larger. (You can fine-tune the effect, too, by putting more or less in specific spots. I used to go heavy right in the middle of the grip where the cup of my hand would be. You'll need to safety wire the grips in addition to gluing them on.)
Try those Faastco Flex bars. They take the vibration and the rough feeling from the handlebars. My "bad wrist/ hand" buddies swear by these.
Pit Row
Yeah that’s what I’ve been told to switch back to glue on grips, i guess the ODI’s cause a little more vibration? I also just got my suspension back from a revalve with a new valve system in there, it’s a lot I guess touchier then the stock valving and allows for more finer adjustments, it’s not as set it and forget as stock, what works on one track might not work on another, I’m still working out the right settings with the forks.
I know ya probably wont believe me but...
I read somewhere where eating a banana helps with arm pump. So coming off the couch (several times) I would eat a 'naner on the way to the track and chew on one between the motos.
My arms would turn to jelly due to lack of riding/training, but they never pumped up. Psychological? Possibly...
I shit you not, true story!
You forgot the most important and ignored reason, genes. Ain't nothing you can do, if you have genetics (muscle tissue, muscle composition, bone structure) that is subject to armpump.
The sooner you realize if you have it, the sooner you can fix it permanent where the other 3 categories doesn't matter.
I don't think genetics has more of an impact with armpump than it does with other biological functions. People have differences; but we are all made out of the same stuff.
For example, regardless of genetics, people are most comfortable around 68 to 75 degrees ambient temperature.
This is generally true unless there is change to the person. Psychological , Physiological, or Bike Set Up (Clothing/Blankets).
What are you eluding to with "fix it permanent?"
It has a huge impact. Muscle fascia tightness in relation to your specific anatomy, and genetics for how your muscles grow decides if you get armpump or not more or less.
There is a reason certain persons never have even knew armpump was a thing, like Chad and Bubba, while Herlings and Osborne struggle badly. They ain't traing wrong, eating the wrong thing or riding the bike poorly.
When my surgeon cut my fascia he said literally the muscle poored out of it. I can see you have had major issues was his first comment when I woke up.
There was not a thing I could have done to go around it.
This is not a mx thing only. Climbers, cyclists, runners do it frequently because they have just outgrown what they generically was served.
With what mechanism does removing fascia reduce arm pump?
Even if it did create more space in your arms, why does your arm pump not continue pumping until it's out of space?
The surgery is a placebo.
I'm happy for you that it is working for you. I think placebo can be a great way to solve problems. However, in this case the placebo poses serious risks, like Enzo Lopes' nerve damage.
Oboy. Placebo? Seriously? How old are you, 19-20?
I think science have something to say here, and literally every hand surgeon in the world 😂.
I think you need to do some basic googling, or buy a basic anatomy book. 2-3 pages should be enough so we don't give you a to big of shock from the real world 👌
I'm guessing you are not big on vaccin either? 😄
And btw, Lopes didn't have surgery for the issues he have had now. He had Botox which is non invasiv procedure and hasn't been around for more than a few years.
If he would have had the correct surgery, he wouldn't have gotten the issue with nerves.
I have spoke with him. It is only refered to as armpump, but it is not. It's lack of strength due to pinched nerves. Or, less common but also happens, it's the other fascia on the upper side of forearm that also needs to be opened up. If one is tight, the other is most likely to.
I'm open to discussion but if you can't provide rational answers when your claim is questioned, then it takes the fun out of it.
I dont need reminded, seen plenty of fascia. Have you ever processed an animal for food? They have fascia, muscles, and tendons too.
As I said it's basic anatomy. You think the muscle will act like a balloon without the fascia? I don't know what to say to be honest. It's not the fascia that is withholding muscles to grow over longer periods of time.
This is on the same level as saying you can't correct vision through surgery, or fix pinched nerves through surgery, or vaccines doesn't works.
It's so out there, it's tin foil hat off please if we shall continue.
If the surgery isn't placebo, then it should be really easy for you to answer this, right?
What is removed or changed during surgery and how does the alteration prevent arm pump?
Yes its really easy. You don't remove anything, you slice the fascia open so the muscles can expand "outwards", instead of inwards in a contained and limited environment where they pinch of the blood flow so more or less nothing gets in or out to the area.
I mean, it's literally one googling away.
The really serious one will cause tissue to die if it's not fixed within few hours since it can become semi-permanent (meaning will take hours and hours to fade away) if pinched off bad.
"I don't know man", this is basic science since 40 years back.
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