Race Tech suspension - riding rough after revalve?

Rotaholic
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3/29/2025 5:49pm Edited Date/Time 3/29/2025 6:13pm
NSP139 wrote:
Not sure what spring rate you're running but for my past experience Race Tech usually is one rate higher than what Factory Connection would set you...

Not sure what spring rate you're running but for my past experience Race Tech usually is one rate higher than what Factory Connection would set you up for! Paul is a smart guy I've had many conversations with him at mountain bike races down in Irvine but definitely stuck in his own ways LOL

OwenJakes wrote:
I am at 0.54 on the forks and 5.9 on the shock. 213 pounds. I’m kinda flirting with sending my forks to Enzo (because I’m tired...

I am at 0.54 on the forks and 5.9 on the shock. 213 pounds. I’m kinda flirting with sending my forks to Enzo (because I’m tired of working on bikes right now) but then I’d have mismatched stuff 

Put the stock springs back in the forks but leave that shock spring in the bike

1
JM485
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3/29/2025 5:55pm

I’m not understanding the point of this thread, you’re claiming to not want to drag Race Tech through the mud but that’s pretty much exactly what it’s titled to do.  They gave you a setting, maybe it’s a bit off or maybe there were errors on installation, but either way both scenarios can happen and I’m sure they’ll get it sorted out with a simple phone call.  I don’t really know what you’re trying to achieve here but it’s really not fair to them, give them a chance to fix it before putting them on blast for no reason.  

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Saz
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3/29/2025 5:57pm
Saz wrote:
The RMZ has a very stiff chassis from what I've heard from others. I had a 2013 RMZ so my experience wouldn't apply on that aspect...

The RMZ has a very stiff chassis from what I've heard from others. I had a 2013 RMZ so my experience wouldn't apply on that aspect. I can think of two immediate things. 

A: your suspension is actually too soft for your riding ability. If its too soft itll ride low, and blow through the stroke making the ride extremely rough.

B: You're not riding fast enough for it or need to double check all your settings. 

Personally if you've set up everything correctly and double checked it all. Id believe the first one of it being too soft. Alternatively if might need to be broken in more. My YZ450s suspension abused me when I first had it rebuilt but got better after sometime.

Unless there was something incorrectly assembled like a shim stack done backwards on accident. Which happens sometimes thats all I can really think of, I hope you find your answer.

 

OwenJakes wrote:
I ran out of time to go to the extremes on settings. I would like to know what going to 4-6 clicks out feels like. How else...

I ran out of time to go to the extremes on settings. I would like to know what going to 4-6 clicks out feels like. 

How else would you recommend me find out which direction I need to go? Aside from the clickers. 

First thing I can think of is tossing a ziptie on your fork tube and go for a ride without adjusting anything. If its super low on the fork almost bottomed out stiffen it. If its way high soften it.  Id aim for about an inch and a half from the bottom of the fork.

Unfortunately without looking at it in person my advice is limited. But I can point you in the direction of Keefer testings "The Affects Of Change" article on his site. If covers essentially every change and what it does.

OwenJakes
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3/29/2025 6:05pm
JM485 wrote:
I’m not understanding the point of this thread, you’re claiming to not want to drag Race Tech through the mud but that’s pretty much exactly what...

I’m not understanding the point of this thread, you’re claiming to not want to drag Race Tech through the mud but that’s pretty much exactly what it’s titled to do.  They gave you a setting, maybe it’s a bit off or maybe there were errors on installation, but either way both scenarios can happen and I’m sure they’ll get it sorted out with a simple phone call.  I don’t really know what you’re trying to achieve here but it’s really not fair to them, give them a chance to fix it before putting them on blast for no reason.  

How many times in the thread should I praise them for killing my past setups? RT is awesome. 

I’ll even change the title for you. 

8

The Shop

OwenJakes
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3/29/2025 6:21pm
NSP139 wrote:
Not sure what spring rate you're running but for my past experience Race Tech usually is one rate higher than what Factory Connection would set you...

Not sure what spring rate you're running but for my past experience Race Tech usually is one rate higher than what Factory Connection would set you up for! Paul is a smart guy I've had many conversations with him at mountain bike races down in Irvine but definitely stuck in his own ways LOL

OwenJakes wrote:
I am at 0.54 on the forks and 5.9 on the shock. 213 pounds. I’m kinda flirting with sending my forks to Enzo (because I’m tired...

I am at 0.54 on the forks and 5.9 on the shock. 213 pounds. I’m kinda flirting with sending my forks to Enzo (because I’m tired of working on bikes right now) but then I’d have mismatched stuff 

Rotaholic wrote:

Put the stock springs back in the forks but leave that shock spring in the bike

Well.. I’m not opposed to trying this, but, if this is done will this not make the engine braking effect worse? What do you think about the give and take going on there?

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Rotaholic
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3/29/2025 6:32pm Edited Date/Time 3/29/2025 6:33pm
OwenJakes wrote:
I am at 0.54 on the forks and 5.9 on the shock. 213 pounds. I’m kinda flirting with sending my forks to Enzo (because I’m tired...

I am at 0.54 on the forks and 5.9 on the shock. 213 pounds. I’m kinda flirting with sending my forks to Enzo (because I’m tired of working on bikes right now) but then I’d have mismatched stuff 

Rotaholic wrote:

Put the stock springs back in the forks but leave that shock spring in the bike

OwenJakes wrote:
Well.. I’m not opposed to trying this, but, if this is done will this not make the engine braking effect worse? What do you think about...

Well.. I’m not opposed to trying this, but, if this is done will this not make the engine braking effect worse? What do you think about the give and take going on there?

Bike balance, if you find it's too soft after that then mix the fork springs and run a .50 and a .54 giving you .52

Not only is this quick and free but it will tell you if it actually a valving issue or not

3
crmx105
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3/29/2025 7:51pm
NSP139 wrote:
Not sure what spring rate you're running but for my past experience Race Tech usually is one rate higher than what Factory Connection would set you...

Not sure what spring rate you're running but for my past experience Race Tech usually is one rate higher than what Factory Connection would set you up for! Paul is a smart guy I've had many conversations with him at mountain bike races down in Irvine but definitely stuck in his own ways LOL

OwenJakes wrote:
I am at 0.54 on the forks and 5.9 on the shock. 213 pounds. I’m kinda flirting with sending my forks to Enzo (because I’m tired...

I am at 0.54 on the forks and 5.9 on the shock. 213 pounds. I’m kinda flirting with sending my forks to Enzo (because I’m tired of working on bikes right now) but then I’d have mismatched stuff 

.54 seems stiff on the fork?

1
OwenJakes
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3/29/2025 8:01pm
NSP139 wrote:
Not sure what spring rate you're running but for my past experience Race Tech usually is one rate higher than what Factory Connection would set you...

Not sure what spring rate you're running but for my past experience Race Tech usually is one rate higher than what Factory Connection would set you up for! Paul is a smart guy I've had many conversations with him at mountain bike races down in Irvine but definitely stuck in his own ways LOL

OwenJakes wrote:
I am at 0.54 on the forks and 5.9 on the shock. 213 pounds. I’m kinda flirting with sending my forks to Enzo (because I’m tired...

I am at 0.54 on the forks and 5.9 on the shock. 213 pounds. I’m kinda flirting with sending my forks to Enzo (because I’m tired of working on bikes right now) but then I’d have mismatched stuff 

crmx105 wrote:

.54 seems stiff on the fork?

I kinda thought so too. However I felt stupid going with something outside of the spec because if it felt off.. then it was on me. 

3
3/29/2025 11:55pm Edited Date/Time 3/29/2025 11:56pm

How about a riding video to assess what the issue may be rather than a pic of the bike on the stand?

4
OwenJakes
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3/30/2025 7:10am
How about a riding video to assess what the issue may be rather than a pic of the bike on the stand?

How about a riding video to assess what the issue may be rather than a pic of the bike on the stand?

I ride alone. Any suggestions? I don’t have a tripod either. 

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Adam43
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3/30/2025 7:17am
OwenJakes wrote:
I am at 0.54 on the forks and 5.9 on the shock. 213 pounds. I’m kinda flirting with sending my forks to Enzo (because I’m tired...

I am at 0.54 on the forks and 5.9 on the shock. 213 pounds. I’m kinda flirting with sending my forks to Enzo (because I’m tired of working on bikes right now) but then I’d have mismatched stuff 

crmx105 wrote:

.54 seems stiff on the fork?

OwenJakes wrote:

I kinda thought so too. However I felt stupid going with something outside of the spec because if it felt off.. then it was on me. 

Guessing it's a bit oversprung at .54, I would guess putting one of the stock springs in and dropping a bit of oil height will get you right in the zone.

1
OwenJakes
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3/30/2025 7:32am
crmx105 wrote:

.54 seems stiff on the fork?

OwenJakes wrote:

I kinda thought so too. However I felt stupid going with something outside of the spec because if it felt off.. then it was on me. 

Adam43 wrote:
Guessing it's a bit oversprung at .54, I would guess putting one of the stock springs in and dropping a bit of oil height will get...

Guessing it's a bit oversprung at .54, I would guess putting one of the stock springs in and dropping a bit of oil height will get you right in the zone.

You would run a .54 and a .49? I've never mismatched them but I know it gets done. Just apprehensive, thats all. Any negative effects?

That would put me at an effective rate of 1.03kg/mm which sounds more like where I have landed in the past. My YZ is on .50 on each side. Currently The RM-Z it is 1.08. So thats like 5% softer. Will that even do anything? It would effectively be as if I went down one spring rate. Thank you! 

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Adam43
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3/30/2025 7:40am
OwenJakes wrote:
You would run a .54 and a .49? I've never mismatched them but I know it gets done. Just apprehensive, thats all. Any negative effects?That would...

You would run a .54 and a .49? I've never mismatched them but I know it gets done. Just apprehensive, thats all. Any negative effects?

That would put me at an effective rate of 1.03kg/mm which sounds more like where I have landed in the past. My YZ is on .50 on each side. Currently The RM-Z it is 1.08. So thats like 5% softer. Will that even do anything? It would effectively be as if I went down one spring rate. Thank you! 

Not an issue. There are tons of designs utilizing springs in just one side. Slight rate change on one side is not a factor beyond tuning.

Give it a go (I would drop a bit of oil too). If it's an improvement you know you're moving in the right direction. 

soggy
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3/30/2025 7:42am
How about a riding video to assess what the issue may be rather than a pic of the bike on the stand?

How about a riding video to assess what the issue may be rather than a pic of the bike on the stand?

OwenJakes wrote:

I ride alone. Any suggestions? I don’t have a tripod either. 

Have you tried slowing down the rebound on the fork?  A lot of harsh compression feel in forks can come from a rebound circuit that is too fast. I would put the comp at a setting that you think has been the best and then slow down the rebound 2 clicks at a time, if it gets better keep going til it gets worse and work your way back to the Goldilocks zone. 

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OwenJakes
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3/30/2025 7:45am
OwenJakes wrote:
You would run a .54 and a .49? I've never mismatched them but I know it gets done. Just apprehensive, thats all. Any negative effects?That would...

You would run a .54 and a .49? I've never mismatched them but I know it gets done. Just apprehensive, thats all. Any negative effects?

That would put me at an effective rate of 1.03kg/mm which sounds more like where I have landed in the past. My YZ is on .50 on each side. Currently The RM-Z it is 1.08. So thats like 5% softer. Will that even do anything? It would effectively be as if I went down one spring rate. Thank you! 

Adam43 wrote:
Not an issue. There are tons of designs utilizing springs in just one side. Slight rate change on one side is not a factor beyond tuning.Give...

Not an issue. There are tons of designs utilizing springs in just one side. Slight rate change on one side is not a factor beyond tuning.

Give it a go (I would drop a bit of oil too). If it's an improvement you know you're moving in the right direction. 

I think I went 20 mL less than the Rt spec right off the bat. I'll post the numbers when I get back to the shop sometime. I think I'm running 340 mL in the outers right now. I was suspecting it to be stiff from the data sheets and the last setup i got from them. My Yamaha is awesome but it is not as plush/compliant as I would like. I'm not sure why but yes I totally forgot about the SFF designs LOL.

We need to get this figured out asap... guess I better ride every single weekend for the foreseeable future😎😂

4
mx317
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3/30/2025 8:15am
OwenJakes wrote:
I am at 0.54 on the forks and 5.9 on the shock. 213 pounds. I’m kinda flirting with sending my forks to Enzo (because I’m tired...

I am at 0.54 on the forks and 5.9 on the shock. 213 pounds. I’m kinda flirting with sending my forks to Enzo (because I’m tired of working on bikes right now) but then I’d have mismatched stuff 

crmx105 wrote:

.54 seems stiff on the fork?

OwenJakes wrote:

I kinda thought so too. However I felt stupid going with something outside of the spec because if it felt off.. then it was on me. 

When you put in your bike, rider 213lbs and A rider it comes up .54 kg. Usually Race Tech is soft on fork springs so I would say you were fine. 

1
OwenJakes
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3/30/2025 9:28am
OwenJakes wrote:
You would run a .54 and a .49? I've never mismatched them but I know it gets done. Just apprehensive, thats all. Any negative effects?That would...

You would run a .54 and a .49? I've never mismatched them but I know it gets done. Just apprehensive, thats all. Any negative effects?

That would put me at an effective rate of 1.03kg/mm which sounds more like where I have landed in the past. My YZ is on .50 on each side. Currently The RM-Z it is 1.08. So thats like 5% softer. Will that even do anything? It would effectively be as if I went down one spring rate. Thank you! 

Adam43 wrote:
Not an issue. There are tons of designs utilizing springs in just one side. Slight rate change on one side is not a factor beyond tuning.Give...

Not an issue. There are tons of designs utilizing springs in just one side. Slight rate change on one side is not a factor beyond tuning.

Give it a go (I would drop a bit of oil too). If it's an improvement you know you're moving in the right direction. 

Adam I wanted to add also that when I ride through the pits or over like some roots or rain ruts that the fork is wildly harsh. Almost won’t move. Maybe this is spring stiffness?

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3/30/2025 10:16am
crmx105 wrote:

.54 seems stiff on the fork?

OwenJakes wrote:

I kinda thought so too. However I felt stupid going with something outside of the spec because if it felt off.. then it was on me. 

Adam43 wrote:
Guessing it's a bit oversprung at .54, I would guess putting one of the stock springs in and dropping a bit of oil height will get...

Guessing it's a bit oversprung at .54, I would guess putting one of the stock springs in and dropping a bit of oil height will get you right in the zone.

I don’t know what stock spring taxes are but .54 whoa that’s stiff.  On RT,s spring calculator I put in b rider , expert, pro , 40+.  .44 going up only pro had .47 if I remember right. For my bike . Only update 4 my bikes forks is gold valves & low friction seals 4 my bike.  

4
crmx105
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3/30/2025 10:29am
OwenJakes wrote:

I kinda thought so too. However I felt stupid going with something outside of the spec because if it felt off.. then it was on me. 

Adam43 wrote:
Guessing it's a bit oversprung at .54, I would guess putting one of the stock springs in and dropping a bit of oil height will get...

Guessing it's a bit oversprung at .54, I would guess putting one of the stock springs in and dropping a bit of oil height will get you right in the zone.

OwenJakes wrote:
You would run a .54 and a .49? I've never mismatched them but I know it gets done. Just apprehensive, thats all. Any negative effects?That would...

You would run a .54 and a .49? I've never mismatched them but I know it gets done. Just apprehensive, thats all. Any negative effects?

That would put me at an effective rate of 1.03kg/mm which sounds more like where I have landed in the past. My YZ is on .50 on each side. Currently The RM-Z it is 1.08. So thats like 5% softer. Will that even do anything? It would effectively be as if I went down one spring rate. Thank you! 

Think all the 450s come with .50 kg fork springs?

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1
mx317
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3/30/2025 12:18pm
crmx105 wrote:

Think all the 450s come with .50 kg fork springs?

Most are 5.0n//mm which is .51kg/mm

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jmo443
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3/30/2025 12:26pm

There is a guy on here who works for RT that usually is quick to help. Reisenberg or something like that?

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mark_swart
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3/30/2025 12:57pm

That spring rate seems really stiff for fork springs even at 213 lbs. I’ve had multiple Showas revalved by FC and they were always great, on both Suzuki and Honda. They always changed the smaller pressure spring - curious if RT changed that too? I’ve always had a suspicion that is how they got such a nice plush initial feel.

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OwenJakes
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mark_swart wrote:
That spring rate seems really stiff for fork springs even at 213 lbs. I’ve had multiple Showas revalved by FC and they were always great, on...

That spring rate seems really stiff for fork springs even at 213 lbs. I’ve had multiple Showas revalved by FC and they were always great, on both Suzuki and Honda. They always changed the smaller pressure spring - curious if RT changed that too? I’ve always had a suspicion that is how they got such a nice plush initial feel.

Did they go lighter or heavier on the rate? That spring is what controls the pressure on the inner cartridge so I think it is heavier spring ≈ more damping (stiffer:stiffer). Specifically on compression. 

Mine are stock. I did not replace them. When ProTune did my WP forks, Corey changed those as well and it felt good. Also a great shop. 

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mark_swart
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3/30/2025 1:27pm
OwenJakes wrote:
Did they go lighter or heavier on the rate? That spring is what controls the pressure on the inner cartridge so I think it is heavier...

Did they go lighter or heavier on the rate? That spring is what controls the pressure on the inner cartridge so I think it is heavier spring ≈ more damping (stiffer:stiffer). Specifically on compression. 

Mine are stock. I did not replace them. When ProTune did my WP forks, Corey changed those as well and it felt good. Also a great shop. 

It’s been a few years since my last set and unfortunately I don’t have any of the paperwork to compare, but I had them do three separate ones for three bikes and they changed them every time. I would have thought they went to a lighter rate but I have no documentation of that.

OwenJakes
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3/30/2025 1:40pm Edited Date/Time 3/30/2025 1:41pm
OwenJakes wrote:
Did they go lighter or heavier on the rate? That spring is what controls the pressure on the inner cartridge so I think it is heavier...

Did they go lighter or heavier on the rate? That spring is what controls the pressure on the inner cartridge so I think it is heavier spring ≈ more damping (stiffer:stiffer). Specifically on compression. 

Mine are stock. I did not replace them. When ProTune did my WP forks, Corey changed those as well and it felt good. Also a great shop. 

mark_swart wrote:
It’s been a few years since my last set and unfortunately I don’t have any of the paperwork to compare, but I had them do three...

It’s been a few years since my last set and unfortunately I don’t have any of the paperwork to compare, but I had them do three separate ones for three bikes and they changed them every time. I would have thought they went to a lighter rate but I have no documentation of that.

Unless there’s a professional on here that can correct us I’m assuming lighter as well. That spring is what’s responsible for the fork cartridges “returning to full extension” on their own. 

2
OwenJakes
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3/30/2025 2:28pm
How about a riding video to assess what the issue may be rather than a pic of the bike on the stand?

How about a riding video to assess what the issue may be rather than a pic of the bike on the stand?

OwenJakes wrote:

I ride alone. Any suggestions? I don’t have a tripod either. 

soggy wrote:
Have you tried slowing down the rebound on the fork?  A lot of harsh compression feel in forks can come from a rebound circuit that is...

Have you tried slowing down the rebound on the fork?  A lot of harsh compression feel in forks can come from a rebound circuit that is too fast. I would put the comp at a setting that you think has been the best and then slow down the rebound 2 clicks at a time, if it gets better keep going til it gets worse and work your way back to the Goldilocks zone. 

Sorry I missed this. As usual you got the thumbs down treatment and no explanation.. I have always understood rebound to provide a little better traction and smoothness but at the expense of a more active and deflective front end. 

So if rebound slows down will I not feel more impacts in the hands (theoretically)?

3
mx317
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3/30/2025 2:43pm Edited Date/Time 3/30/2025 2:45pm
OwenJakes wrote:

I ride alone. Any suggestions? I don’t have a tripod either. 

soggy wrote:
Have you tried slowing down the rebound on the fork?  A lot of harsh compression feel in forks can come from a rebound circuit that is...

Have you tried slowing down the rebound on the fork?  A lot of harsh compression feel in forks can come from a rebound circuit that is too fast. I would put the comp at a setting that you think has been the best and then slow down the rebound 2 clicks at a time, if it gets better keep going til it gets worse and work your way back to the Goldilocks zone. 

OwenJakes wrote:
Sorry I missed this. As usual you got the thumbs down treatment and no explanation.. I have always understood rebound to provide a little better traction...

Sorry I missed this. As usual you got the thumbs down treatment and no explanation.. I have always understood rebound to provide a little better traction and smoothness but at the expense of a more active and deflective front end. 

So if rebound slows down will I not feel more impacts in the hands (theoretically)?

I think he has that backwards. If you slow down the rebound you will stiffen the compression also because they share a common bleed. 

1
OwenJakes
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3/30/2025 3:19pm
soggy wrote:
Have you tried slowing down the rebound on the fork?  A lot of harsh compression feel in forks can come from a rebound circuit that is...

Have you tried slowing down the rebound on the fork?  A lot of harsh compression feel in forks can come from a rebound circuit that is too fast. I would put the comp at a setting that you think has been the best and then slow down the rebound 2 clicks at a time, if it gets better keep going til it gets worse and work your way back to the Goldilocks zone. 

OwenJakes wrote:
Sorry I missed this. As usual you got the thumbs down treatment and no explanation.. I have always understood rebound to provide a little better traction...

Sorry I missed this. As usual you got the thumbs down treatment and no explanation.. I have always understood rebound to provide a little better traction and smoothness but at the expense of a more active and deflective front end. 

So if rebound slows down will I not feel more impacts in the hands (theoretically)?

mx317 wrote:

I think he has that backwards. If you slow down the rebound you will stiffen the compression also because they share a common bleed. 

If I open up the rebound does that also reduce compression damping? I forgot these circuits are connected too. I was adjusting them both at the same time so that may be part of why I got the wallowing feeling - lots of change at one time. 

2
crmx105
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3/30/2025 3:29pm
crmx105 wrote:

Think all the 450s come with .50 kg fork springs?

mx317 wrote:

Most are 5.0n//mm which is .51kg/mm

Yes, error on my part. 

ace402
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Check out the Suspension forum on ThumperTalk. It’s the best moto suspension forum I’ve found. 

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