Need some expert ideas

Experts only LOL.  I am trying to find a product that might solve a problem I'm having.  I own a truck wash facility that has a boiler and a 3 compartment stainless steel holding tank, 1 water, 1 soap mixed water, 1 wax mixed water.  It holds a temperature of 130 degrees.   Not the same but similar to this link.  https://www.dultmeier.com/multi-compartment-holding-tanks-01

I'm having problems with a leak between the 15 gallon clear water side and the 5 gallon soap and water side.  They share the tank because they are all heated but are separated as not to mix.  In the past I have rewelded it.  That worked but it is difficult because it is inside a compartment.  Its near impossible for me to weld the 5 gallon side.  Even with good welds, they have a tendency to leak because they are constantly bent and buckled ever so slightly from raising and lower water levels.  Kind of like a crimper effect.  

I've had the problem contained but it presented itself again this evening.  In the past I have tried everything imaginable in a tube or a mix only to have it peal off because it won't stick to stainless the temperature melts it off or it just does not work.  Things like silicones (X),  JB Weld (X), JB Weld Stainless (X) Flex Seal (X) dope sticks from friends that work pipelines (X).  I don't know what to do. There has to be an alternative to welding it.  A mix, something to heat with a torch anything.  Does anyone have any ideas of something commercial or industrial?  I'm 1000% certain it is not something I can find at Lowes.     

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Philo Beddoe
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1/30/2025 6:49pm

You picked the right place to come for expert opinions. Someone will be with you shortly. At Vital, we value your opinion. Please wait on the line at the end of your consultation to take a small survey on how or if we provided great customer service to you today!

10
3
1/30/2025 6:54pm

I didn't hear a beep. Do I just keep waiting?  😁

2
1/30/2025 7:03pm

Oh shit, fuck... I need help!  Please message me back.  

The Shop

TeamGreen
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1/30/2025 7:08pm

You want “SMF” (which means SeeMeFirst) 

He’s a water systems genius. He’s an old school “fix anything” mechanical genius.

Not kidding.

 

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1/30/2025 7:17pm

"constantly bent and buckled ever so slightly from raising and lower water levels"

This ^^^ and the heat make it difficult, have you thought about reinforcing the separators between the tanks, or installing tank liners?

1
SEEMEFIRST
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1/30/2025 7:31pm
1000002079
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SEEMEFIRST
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1/30/2025 7:31pm

There are many different types and sizes of these things.

PNWMXer
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1/30/2025 8:07pm Edited Date/Time 1/30/2025 8:10pm
"constantly bent and buckled ever so slightly from raising and lower water levels"This ^^^ and the heat make it difficult, have you thought about reinforcing...

"constantly bent and buckled ever so slightly from raising and lower water levels"

This ^^^ and the heat make it difficult, have you thought about reinforcing the separators between the tanks, or installing tank liners?

Was going to suggest liners as well. Might have to get something custom…I’m thinking something along the lines of a fuel bladder. Your current stainless tanks would then just be supporting the bladders, rather than being the tanks themselves.


No affiliation or experience, but this type of thing came up in a google search for “custom tank liners”.


https://www.platinginternational.com/tank-liners

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1
1/30/2025 8:16pm

Seemefirst, It is more of a box.  The piece I'm trying to seal is kind of like the corners of a cabinet.  Up one corner wall and the bottom 2 sides where the 2 walls and the floor meet.  

1/30/2025 8:21pm

PNW, thats a cool idea.  Thanks for the link.  I'll look into it but I'm not sure it will work.  The reason being the soap side fills with a hydrominder and cold water, which is nothing more than a siphon that mixes the water and the soap say 15:1.  It uses it presence in the tank being stored next to the hot water to heat it up as well as when it is mixed with the hot water from the hot water holding tank as it meets the pump.  On the hot water side, it runs through the boiler.  On the soap side it pulls the heat from the hot water holding tank.  If I could find something that would fit the size, there is a chance that would work.  It would keep them from mixing.  

1
1/30/2025 8:29pm
"constantly bent and buckled ever so slightly from raising and lower water levels"This ^^^ and the heat make it difficult, have you thought about reinforcing...

"constantly bent and buckled ever so slightly from raising and lower water levels"

This ^^^ and the heat make it difficult, have you thought about reinforcing the separators between the tanks, or installing tank liners?

It for sure poses more of a problem than one would think.  The unit is pretty solid but at the same time it is sheet metal.  It was made with a bender on many of the pieces and welded very little.  That is what makes it weak.  Every leak is in a bend.  I haven't thought about a brace.  I know where you are coming from and I see it might make a difference after it was repaired.  It will be hard to do by simply finding a place where it would be effective.  Its one of those things, you can't see or hear it move, but you know it does from mass amounts of water coming in and out of it.  I'll see if I can implement something like that after it is repaired.      

vet323
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1/30/2025 8:35pm

Would it be easier to braze or solder the tank instead of welding it?

2
SEEMEFIRST
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1/31/2025 4:14am
Seemefirst, It is more of a box.  The piece I'm trying to seal is kind of like the corners of a cabinet.  Up one corner wall...

Seemefirst, It is more of a box.  The piece I'm trying to seal is kind of like the corners of a cabinet.  Up one corner wall and the bottom 2 sides where the 2 walls and the floor meet.  

Oh, totally misunderstood what it was.

How big are the tanks?

Not fully understanding how it all works together, a liner might be a good option. 

With flat sides, it's probably "oil canning" and that would create problems at welded joints, I would guess. 

JustMX
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1/31/2025 6:08am Edited Date/Time 1/31/2025 6:14am

Not really my field of expertise, but what if you put something similar to a baffle that is in big tanks to minimize the surging/sloshing affect.

Instead of addressing surging/sloshing it would keep the wall from flexing, or to borrow seemmefirst's terminology, oil canning, which i would guess comes from when old metal oil cans were in use and they would expand and contract as temps changed.

Have heard the popping sound of the ends flexing when storing diesel in 55 gallon drums too.

I am assuming that this is pressurized by the water line, but what about a pressure relief valve set to release at maximum heat?

If it let off just a little of the pressure perhaps the wall would not flex

1/31/2025 7:07am

I'll see if I can't get a good picture this afternoon.  On the web, this is the closest I've been able to find.  

Mine is kind of like the bottom one.  On mine the soap and was are about the same size as this only they are positioned behind one another, Not side by side.  Then the water side is about 3 times the side of both combined.  I was probably a little short on the gallons of water.  I'm just guessing but the water side is 20 or 25 gallon. 

They are put together as a unit and they are hung on a rack and plumbed into the boiler.  Meaning the bottom is not sitting on the floor. Hence the bottom of the tank is holding all the weight.  The boiler plumbing is 2 inch inlet and outlet so there is a lot of flow.  The fresh water to fill it is with a float valve and a 3/4" line.  The float valve is where it would tend to pulsate the water.  I do have a pvc drop pipe from the float valve to the bottom of the tank so it feeds from the bottom and limits some of the pulsation.  

SEEMEFIRST
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1/31/2025 8:00am

Maybe weld some stiffeners on it.

Like some pieces of angle?

kNewc
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1/31/2025 8:05am

3
Falcon
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1/31/2025 8:42am

I'm not an expert, nor do I have any unique advice, but I'd be looking at some kind of liner as mentioned above. It seems like that may be a better solution that trying "better" welds. 

Josh422
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1/31/2025 9:42am

When you say mass amounts of water coming in and out, is it creating a vacuum enough to flex the sides? Maybe when water flows out it’s sucking down the lid? Test it with it propped open and add a AAV? Thinking out loud but not totally familiar with your scenario.

charlie68
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1/31/2025 10:14am

Can you get the tanks clean and dry? I would try to dry it out, wash with acetone and use 3M window weld, this is the structural bond between auto glass and the body in all conditions.

byke
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1/31/2025 10:30am
I'll see if I can't get a good picture this afternoon.  On the web, this is the closest I've been able to find.  Mine is kind...

I'll see if I can't get a good picture this afternoon.  On the web, this is the closest I've been able to find.  

Mine is kind of like the bottom one.  On mine the soap and was are about the same size as this only they are positioned behind one another, Not side by side.  Then the water side is about 3 times the side of both combined.  I was probably a little short on the gallons of water.  I'm just guessing but the water side is 20 or 25 gallon. 

They are put together as a unit and they are hung on a rack and plumbed into the boiler.  Meaning the bottom is not sitting on the floor. Hence the bottom of the tank is holding all the weight.  The boiler plumbing is 2 inch inlet and outlet so there is a lot of flow.  The fresh water to fill it is with a float valve and a 3/4" line.  The float valve is where it would tend to pulsate the water.  I do have a pvc drop pipe from the float valve to the bottom of the tank so it feeds from the bottom and limits some of the pulsation.  

The one on the bottom looks like it has no ports in it like the one of the top, so does that mean yours pulls from the top? If so, you might just weld up a few thick inserts to stick in there. 

Also, if you find something to seal the cracks, but the filling/draining movement causes them to crack, can you drill holes all the way through the side and then use something like all-thread with big fender washers or plate, with some sealant and sealing washers of course, to hold it all together to keep that from happening? If not, can you achieve the same thing by welding a something across inside that effectively does the same thing? 

1/31/2025 4:40pm

Jeremy 8s a picture of mine.   It has ports on the bottom where the soap gravity feeds and siphon into the pumps.  

1000002038.jpg?VersionId=J3IIvtnKEfGMLfoDNFwmK.4Y1bP1

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