What if the points system was changed?

mxaddiction
Posts
161
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
baltimore, MD, USA
Edited Date/Time 1/27/2012 6:44am
Hmmmm, say it was straight up like for 1st 25, 2nd 24, 3rd 23 etc...do you think it would impact the racing and if so how?
|
RACEGUY
Posts
1893
Joined
8/25/2009
Location
Moncton, CA
7/18/2010 7:25pm
Strategically, more riders might be willing to take the position and points that they settle into as the race progresses, rather than hang it all out for those very valuable additional 2 or 3 points.

It would place less value on those front five positions.
shaner708
Posts
631
Joined
5/27/2009
Location
Export, PA, USA
7/18/2010 7:27pm Edited Date/Time 7/18/2010 7:28pm
Personally I think that you'd get a lot of guys in the nationals who are 21st to 25th obviously gaining point possibly a national number, that would be cool for them but would they deserve it? I think probably yes but I'm sure there are some that would say no.



The reason I disagree with that system is yes it would make a difference and imo it would be a difference in a bad way. I think there should be a greater reward for winning, and placing in the top 5. The winner should get that extra two points and the top 5 should get that extra 1 point for having really solid rides.



Also think of how hard it would be to gain points on the points leader. Say you are halfway through the national series and are down by 14 or 16 points. You could win every moto and all the other guy would have to do was be 2nd every time and you could still lose. Imo thats not right.
mxaddiction
Posts
161
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
baltimore, MD, USA
7/18/2010 7:29pm
Maybe, but it might work the other way as well seeing that the difference is so small. It might also tighten up the points battle and keep things within reach during the season and make it harder for dominant guys. Dono, was just thinking about how the series might be improved.
mxaddiction
Posts
161
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
baltimore, MD, USA
7/18/2010 7:31pm
Hmmm, good thoughts shaner708. Wonder what the points would look like under the system I'm proposing at this point in the series. I tend to think that guys would have more hope after a bad moto if the point were 25, 24, 23 than the way they are now but that's just me being biased I think.

The Shop

zookrider62!
Posts
6825
Joined
12/22/2008
Location
Plano, TX, USA
7/18/2010 7:35pm
it would certainly help the 3-1 beats a 2-2 but tie breaker goes to the better second moto confusion
7/18/2010 7:54pm
I agree it needs to be changed, but I think it should be on a 50 point system. 50 for 1st, 46 for 2nd, 44 for 3rd and subtract 2 points until 9th place gets 32 and then goes down 1 point for each positin until 40th place gets 1 point.

If you qualify for a national - you deserve a point. Yes more riders will get double digit numbers - but I think that will be good for the sport and maybe more priviteers will try and get to more rounds.
WhipMeister
Posts
5284
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
Big D, TX, USA
7/18/2010 8:26pm
I think they should give bonus points for every lap completed like they do in 4-wheel racing.
Crush
Posts
21154
Joined
4/26/2009
Location
Sydney, AU
7/18/2010 9:09pm
The main difference is Dungey would have a 1/3rd size of the lead he has now...

The settling argument is redundant... The riders aren't risking their necks now for the 2 or 3 point position...

If anything, i'd think it would make them ride harder as the points would be harder and it'd be harder to get a gap or make it up...

Bottom line, in AMA moto, if you win out 1st half of the season, your lead is horrendously big and the other riders are way way way back...

I think do 25-1st, 24-2nd etc is a great idea...
the_wood109
Posts
3008
Joined
7/6/2008
Location
Edgewater, FL, USA
7/18/2010 9:12pm
There has been much talk about the points system. I think one of them mentions about giving points for fast laps and other things. My un-educated (because I've never run the numbers,) tells me that this would result in even more spacing of the points. I would love the see an analysis from a few season about this....primarily last year. The reason is because even though Reed wrapped it up early, there were a bunch of winners. Ideally thats what you would want to count on. We might not see anymore undefeated seasons in the future (maybe we will with Dungey, though.)

I like the idea of the 50 point system with even spacing. The only problem I can think of, is that we would possibly need a new numbering system due to the amount of ties and the sheer number of riders with points. If it is proven to tighten up the standings, I'm all for it.

We always seem to have a pretty tight points race "except for that one guy."
7/18/2010 10:14pm
Crush wrote:
The main difference is Dungey would have a 1/3rd size of the lead he has now... The settling argument is redundant... The riders aren't risking their...
The main difference is Dungey would have a 1/3rd size of the lead he has now...

The settling argument is redundant... The riders aren't risking their necks now for the 2 or 3 point position...

If anything, i'd think it would make them ride harder as the points would be harder and it'd be harder to get a gap or make it up...

Bottom line, in AMA moto, if you win out 1st half of the season, your lead is horrendously big and the other riders are way way way back...

I think do 25-1st, 24-2nd etc is a great idea...
On the flip side, if a rider goes on a tear late in the season and wins everything in sight they can make up the points deficit much quicker.
Crush
Posts
21154
Joined
4/26/2009
Location
Sydney, AU
7/18/2010 10:21pm
Not really... The points are the same for everyone either way... But I'd put stock in the idea that a 80 point lead looks worse mentally for the riders than the equivalent lead in the suggested system may seem...

Either way, if you are consistent you're putting a lot of points up... I do however think that with two motos and the ability to put the 2nd place guy away by 6 or more each weekend is too much...
7GP
Posts
332
Joined
11/10/2009
Location
Northern, CA, USA
7/18/2010 11:21pm
Crush wrote:
Not really... The points are the same for everyone either way... But I'd put stock in the idea that a 80 point lead looks worse mentally...
Not really... The points are the same for everyone either way... But I'd put stock in the idea that a 80 point lead looks worse mentally for the riders than the equivalent lead in the suggested system may seem...

Either way, if you are consistent you're putting a lot of points up... I do however think that with two motos and the ability to put the 2nd place guy away by 6 or more each weekend is too much...
Re-read his post...
Crush
Posts
21154
Joined
4/26/2009
Location
Sydney, AU
7/19/2010 3:15am
Re-read mine... I know what he said, but it's redundant either way...

It will always be the same points system for each rider... If someone gets 2nds the first half then gets 1sts the 2nd, they'll make the points up comparatively the same won't they...

What I was talking about is a 100 point lead still sounds bigger and perhaps more insurmountable even if the points are still the same to make up...

I do think tho that the riders might work more for 1 point when they are harder to make up overall... F1 has 1 point system don't they?! Team mates take out each other for points in that series...
Rupert X
Posts
11086
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Newark, OH, USA
7/19/2010 4:39am

Absolutely the points system requires overhaul. You generally see little "racing"

outside they top 20 - why should they ? No incentive.

As usual, the 5 year plan has the answers....

INCREASED COMPETITION:
Along with the revised classes and configuration of practice and qualifying sessions, each forty man race
will have additional performance enhancers, which will, in turn, increase the competitive levels
throughout the contest. All forty competitors will receive series and advancement points, providing they
qualify for Sunday’s main moto’s. After the first ten minutes, any competitor that is lapped will receive
the black flag and be removed from the contest. Should a rider not appear for his race (either moto) an
alternate shall be chosen so that full gates will always be the case. As noted earlier, top riders will
quickly be advanced up – promoting the best racing in every class. Practice and qualifying races will be
shorter, Sunday “feature” races will be longer


* Read the entire 5 year plan and you'll see how we can fix motocross.

http://www.therupertxshow.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/American-Profe…
mxaddiction
Posts
161
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
baltimore, MD, USA
7/19/2010 5:36am
Of course I agree with crushSmile
mxaddiction
Posts
161
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
baltimore, MD, USA
7/19/2010 5:37am
Where can we find all the results so that we can see what the points would look like if the system was changed?
flarider
Posts
25496
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Daytona Beach, FL, USA
7/19/2010 5:51am
As a whole, when it comes to the Nationals, the present system is fine, but I do however think a couple bonus points enhancements could be added, for example;
5 point holeshot award (almost any rider could earn it, even a good privateer)
2 points for leading first lap
2 points most laps led
5 point top privateer award (this encourages more battles in the field. Of course, "privateer" needs to be better defined)

and the last one, a little bit crazy, but to encourage last minute charges or finish line battles, a point bonus for any/all rider(s) finishing within 2 seconds of the race winner.
flarider
Posts
25496
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Daytona Beach, FL, USA
7/19/2010 5:53am
Oh, in SX, points should be awarded for top 3 in qualifiers and holeshot in main
KAWboy14
Posts
6502
Joined
12/31/2007
Location
Austin, TX, USA
7/19/2010 6:45am
stewart would still be the fastest racer in the universe and dungey would still be the best racer at millville!
zookrider62!
Posts
6825
Joined
12/22/2008
Location
Plano, TX, USA
7/19/2010 6:46am
flarider wrote:
As a whole, when it comes to the Nationals, the present system is fine, but I do however think a couple bonus points enhancements could be...
As a whole, when it comes to the Nationals, the present system is fine, but I do however think a couple bonus points enhancements could be added, for example;
5 point holeshot award (almost any rider could earn it, even a good privateer)
2 points for leading first lap
2 points most laps led
5 point top privateer award (this encourages more battles in the field. Of course, "privateer" needs to be better defined)

and the last one, a little bit crazy, but to encourage last minute charges or finish line battles, a point bonus for any/all rider(s) finishing within 2 seconds of the race winner.
are you serious?
KAWboy14
Posts
6502
Joined
12/31/2007
Location
Austin, TX, USA
7/19/2010 6:48am
flarider wrote:
As a whole, when it comes to the Nationals, the present system is fine, but I do however think a couple bonus points enhancements could be...
As a whole, when it comes to the Nationals, the present system is fine, but I do however think a couple bonus points enhancements could be added, for example;
5 point holeshot award (almost any rider could earn it, even a good privateer)
2 points for leading first lap
2 points most laps led
5 point top privateer award (this encourages more battles in the field. Of course, "privateer" needs to be better defined)

and the last one, a little bit crazy, but to encourage last minute charges or finish line battles, a point bonus for any/all rider(s) finishing within 2 seconds of the race winner.
are you serious?
those all seem like really good motivators to me zook!
flarider
Posts
25496
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Daytona Beach, FL, USA
7/19/2010 7:25am
flarider wrote:
As a whole, when it comes to the Nationals, the present system is fine, but I do however think a couple bonus points enhancements could be...
As a whole, when it comes to the Nationals, the present system is fine, but I do however think a couple bonus points enhancements could be added, for example;
5 point holeshot award (almost any rider could earn it, even a good privateer)
2 points for leading first lap
2 points most laps led
5 point top privateer award (this encourages more battles in the field. Of course, "privateer" needs to be better defined)

and the last one, a little bit crazy, but to encourage last minute charges or finish line battles, a point bonus for any/all rider(s) finishing within 2 seconds of the race winner.
are you serious?
Dead serous.
Each one of those are motivators to increase competition and give additional incentives.
If a privateer can holeshot and score 5 points, that start becomes even more important than ever to him as well as everyone else.
If you score points for leading lap one, while everyone is still tightly packed, that first lap becomes even more important
Domination should be rewarded by leading the most laps
and why not give the privateers some advantage, since they're so disadvantaged as it is by offering them a points incentive? It adds a new dimension and a "race within a race" as the top privateer can earn points. Picture the Kyle Regal finish this week, not only did he earn all the points he did, but he also would've received an additional 5 points for top privateer.
But again, privateer needs to be more clearly defined
agency399
Posts
402
Joined
2/20/2009
Location
Deer River, NY, USA
7/19/2010 8:05am Edited Date/Time 7/19/2010 8:25am
I agree with Rupert.......why should 21th through 40th not receive any points?

I never understood that.......

edit 21st.....
txmxer
Posts
9770
Joined
8/21/2006
Location
Weatherford, TX, USA
7/19/2010 8:11am
About the only thing I can fully agree with here is the points system being set up so every rider earns points.

Of course, I'd love it if the events were stretched out over 2 days as it used to be...but, I understand reality and practicality. I wish I was rich and could drive a luxury motor home to every event and hang out and watch all the races. That's not going to happen either.

Adam43
Posts
3317
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
WF
7/19/2010 8:23am
flarider wrote:
As a whole, when it comes to the Nationals, the present system is fine, but I do however think a couple bonus points enhancements could be...
As a whole, when it comes to the Nationals, the present system is fine, but I do however think a couple bonus points enhancements could be added, for example;
5 point holeshot award (almost any rider could earn it, even a good privateer)
2 points for leading first lap
2 points most laps led
5 point top privateer award (this encourages more battles in the field. Of course, "privateer" needs to be better defined)

and the last one, a little bit crazy, but to encourage last minute charges or finish line battles, a point bonus for any/all rider(s) finishing within 2 seconds of the race winner.
are you serious?
flarider wrote:
Dead serous. Each one of those are motivators to increase competition and give additional incentives. If a privateer can holeshot and score 5 points, that start...
Dead serous.
Each one of those are motivators to increase competition and give additional incentives.
If a privateer can holeshot and score 5 points, that start becomes even more important than ever to him as well as everyone else.
If you score points for leading lap one, while everyone is still tightly packed, that first lap becomes even more important
Domination should be rewarded by leading the most laps
and why not give the privateers some advantage, since they're so disadvantaged as it is by offering them a points incentive? It adds a new dimension and a "race within a race" as the top privateer can earn points. Picture the Kyle Regal finish this week, not only did he earn all the points he did, but he also would've received an additional 5 points for top privateer.
But again, privateer needs to be more clearly defined
Those suggestions are all well and good, but what if you have a scenario where one guy wins both motos, but the guy who goes 2-2 wins the overall because he gets the holeshot and leads half the race both times?

That would leave a pretty bad taste in the fan's mouth.
flarider
Posts
25496
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Daytona Beach, FL, USA
7/19/2010 8:29am
Only talking about series points, not points on the day

Bonus points would only be applicable to overall series points
raddad
Posts
2286
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Wrenshall, MN, USA
7/19/2010 8:35am
What you all are missing IMO is the most important change we could make! And that is a point or more should be given to the overall winner! Now it means very little to win the overall other than record books. How can we insure a great fight for the overall? Reward it.. IMO this is the number one change, the other one is to use the AMA amateur point system which is easy to implement and understand and makes more sense.

Points for the overall, so simple there must be a good reason why they don't do it?

Post a reply to: What if the points system was changed?

The Latest