Fucking doctors and medications

Docs get paid by the pharmaceutical companies to write scripts... Thats why its so easy for them. Im going through the same thing right now.. Dr's suck anymore.

It's generational, my doc is older than dirt and less inclined to pass out pills for every little thing. I am afraid to think of what kind of pill passing quack I'll end up with when he croaks or retires. He even spared me the dirtbikes are dangerous lecture. " title="Laughing">

Over the last few years, between my back, my sinuses and other shit (damn I'm getting old) I never have any side effects.
I look them up and read them, but never experience any of them.

My doctor never discussed them either. I assume this is because the rate of occurance is probably rather low with most things.

[quote="flarider":1ld3av01]
My doctor never discussed them either. [b:1ld3av01]I assume this is because the rate of occurance is probably rather low with most things.[/b:1ld3av01][/quote:1ld3av01]

Exactly.

The reason the docs dont discuss anything with you is because they so freaking overbook that they only have a few minutes to spend with each patient. It might be important to remind oneself occasionally that its not so much a Medical Profession but instead a Medical "business".

You know how most older people have lots of amber pill bottles on the night stand? Well my Mom hates pills, doctors, hospitals the whole nine yards. Shes now 80 years old and I was in her medicine cabinet recently looking for anything that would give me a buzz..... just kidding I was looking for an antiacid tablet. Anyway I only saw one prescription bottle, not sure what it was for but it was a number of years old and it was still full. LOL

I stopped using my doctor (any western doc, for that matter) for the day to day illnesses. Western docs are great for battlefield medicine, though. I'll turn to either old school home remedies, good diet, or herbs/natural cures. They can keep their prescriptions.

I hate the side effects of stopping my meds.

[quote="FreshTopEnd":1313sbl1]I hate the side effects of stopping my meds.[/quote:1313sbl1]
Uh,,,YEAH.

Sometimes I think doctors are a little bit in the "customer service" business. If you go see them because something hurts and they tell you to just suck it up and be a man about it, you might be inclined to go find another doctor. Of course, if you really didn't want to take meds, you just wanted to know if something was worth worrying about and the doc gave you meds, you might go find another doctor.

Generally, a GP only has two tricks in his repertoire - meds or referral.

My doc's young, (early thirties maybe) when I go in he usually spends about 30 to 45 minutes with me. I have had two prescriptions written in two years. One for Chantix last year to help me quit smoking without going mental on everyone around me, and the other was for an antibiotic at the beginning of this year for an uppere respiratory infection. He does all he can to keep his patients from being pill poppers. I had another doctor in his office that wifey and I used to go to that is a script writer from hell. Our medicine cabinet used to look like a miniature pharmacy. Wer'e both only 39.

[quote="FreshTopEnd":3hhyeeml]I hate the side effects of stopping my meds.[/quote:3hhyeeml]


Ditto here; side effect are so brutal.

I hate when I can't get a prescription for the stuff that works.

Most doctors will not prescribe narcotic painkillers for my back problems. The only thing that has relieved the pain and loosened the muscles in less than 48 hr's has been oxycocet. Anti inflammatory drugs and muscle relaxants don't so shit. Tylenol 3's by the handful do nothing. I'll ask the guy to give me a prescription for like 4 pills and they still won't do it. I usually just chuck the prescription he writes into the garbage can on the way out. I've wasted too much on pills that don't do jack in the past. My regular guy before I moved was good, but finding a new doc that'll help me out when the back goes has been tough.

A chiro helps, but I've heard using them too much just makes it go out easier. I prefer it better when the body just relaxes enough and the problem sorts itself out. I'm not sure what goes out, but the muscles really spasm and the neck and back is locked tight for a week without treatment. When I have to, I'll go to the chiro and then smoke a little weed for the pain. It generally takes about an extra 48 hrs for the chiro method to work compared to the oxycocet.

It's not so much that they won't prescribe the drugs that ticks me off. It's that they really don't listen and won't lift a finger to do anything like call my old GP and find out if it's been a successful course of treatment in the past. Nope! Just ask you to turn your head a few times, pinch you in the shoulders a couple of times and then tell you what they won't do because they know more about it than anyone else ever could. That or they think I'm some prescription junkie that spends his days going from doctor to doctor for a 4 pill prescription. Either way it ticks me off.

[quote="Rooster":vkqslir4]I hate when I can't get a prescription for the stuff that works.

Most doctors will not prescribe narcotic painkillers for my back problems. The only thing that has relieved the pain and loosened the muscles in less than 48 hr's has been oxycocet. Anti inflammatory drugs and muscle relaxants don't so shit. Tylenol 3's by the handful do nothing. I'll ask the guy to give me a prescription for like 4 pills and they still won't do it. I usually just chuck the prescription he writes into the garbage can on the way out. I've wasted too much on pills that don't do jack in the past. My regular guy before I moved was good, but finding a new doc that'll help me out when the back goes has been tough.

A chiro helps, but I've heard using them too much just makes it go out easier. I prefer it better when the body just relaxes enough and the problem sorts itself out. I'm not sure what goes out, but the muscles really spasm and the neck and back is locked tight for a week without treatment. When I have to, I'll go to the chiro and then smoke a little weed for the pain. It generally takes about an extra 48 hrs for the chiro method to work compared to the oxycocet.

It's not so much that they won't prescribe the drugs that ticks me off. It's that they really don't listen and won't lift a finger to do anything like call my old GP and find out if it's been a successful course of treatment in the past. Nope! Just ask you to turn your head a few times, pinch you in the shoulders a couple of times and then tell you what they won't do because they know more about it than anyone else ever could. That or they think I'm some prescription junkie that spends his days going from doctor to doctor for a 4 pill prescription. Either way it ticks me off.[/quote:vkqslir4]
I have a herniated disk in my neck, and I go in a couple of times a year when it gets bad enough so I can't function, and I get some Darvocet, some muscle relaxers and anti inflammatory stuff (those vary). I understand you can't take that all the time, so I don't take it unless it's really unmanageable. My GP has been pretty good about it - he'll send me to get a MRI if I'm OK with corrective surgery, but if I won't go for surgery anyway it's a waste of time to get the MRI.

Overall, my GP wants me to come in when I get the flu or something, he has no idea what to do about spinal issues and really doesn't want to deal with it. One of the strange things about the medical world is, they change their course of treatment with public opinion. There's been a big outcry about kids selling and using prescription drugs, so doctors all of a sudden don't want to prescribe the same stuff they used to prescribe. Like the exact same drugs are bad now and they were good before. I always had a catch in my craw for doctors who thought they were God and nobody could tell them anything, but the new breed of doctor who has to check with the insurance company and CNN before he can write a prescription isn't a doctor.

Rooster, you need to see a pain managment doctor. And I don't mean one of those fly-by-night pain clinics, but someone has qualifications to specialize in chronic pain management. Research doctors and find out their qualifications - you want someone who belongs to groups such as these:
• American Academy of Pain Management
• American Pain Society
• American Society of Addiction Medicine
Most GP's are afraid to write certain meds because they don't want the DEA up their ass. Most pain clinics are crap and are just selling prescriptions until they get shut down. A legitimate specialist in chronic pain management will keep you out of pain and give you stuff that works, but will also give a crap about long term effects and keep you from getting hooked on anything.

Regarding docs in general, several hit it right on the head. Docs are controlled by drug companies and by the health insurance industry. ALL medications have a list of side effects a mile long (find me one that doesn't), but the incidence of significant complications remains small or the drug won't make it to market (unless they paid off the right people). It sucks if you happen to be in the 5% or whatever who have the side effects of the stuff that is supposed to help you.
Health insurance has physicians by the balls. It's hard to find a doctor who will actually listen to you. Luckily, dentists put up enough resistance and avoided getting into the same sinking boats that physicians got into. If I have to do 2 fillings on someone and the procedure will take 50 minutes from when they hit the chair up until they leave, then I schedule that amount of time and see that patient and only that patient during that time. Half have insurance, half don't but have to decide whether they want a new TV this month or want to get their teeth fixed. You don't have to run a "mill" to make a good living in dentistry - for physicians, it's often a different story.

[quote="yzthumpa":282ezggl]Rooster, you need to see a pain managment doctor. And I don't mean one of those fly-by-night pain clinics, but someone has qualifications to specialize in chronic pain management. Research doctors and find out their qualifications - you want someone who belongs to groups such as these:
• American Academy of Pain Management
• American Pain Society
• American Society of Addiction Medicine
Most GP's are afraid to write certain meds because they don't want the DEA up their ass. Most pain clinics are crap and are just selling prescriptions until they get shut down. A legitimate specialist in chronic pain management will keep you out of pain and give you stuff that works, but will also give a crap about long term effects and keep you from getting hooked on anything.[/quote:282ezggl]

Most pain management doctors/clinics need a GP or Orthopedists referral to get into, which can be even more difficult than getting a prescription since they are in the same network usually.
Some docs will send you to a methadone clinic first before keeping you within their network of physicians and most insurances do not pay for methadone clinics. Kind of dumping you on someone else that's not associated with the group.
It's like if you don't have surgery, don't come back and ask for pills, even if you don't see the doc unless it gets really bad! I refused back surgery after telling me a full recovery was only 50% for a 5+ hr operation. I knew a couple really good people permanently crippled from back and/or neck surgeries.
I know a woman that's only 44 that gets a monthly supply for fentynyl patches(strongest dose), goes to a methadone clinic and drinks a substantial dose, gets a monthly prescription of Norco's(double strength Vicodins), soma, and to top off the coctail, Adavan and Valium. And on top of that, buys off the street.
I can't believe the bitch is still alive, let alone walking.
And she had hardly anything wrong with her compared to me, Rooster and yzthumpa.
Go figure.

My neck surgery only helped about 20% (got rid of the numbness in my fingers, which is the reason I had the surgery since that's my "drill" hand). The neurosurgeon told me going in there's no cure for back or neck pain - if the surgery helps that, consider it a bonus. So I had two discs removed, bone plugs placed, and a titanium plate and screws (anterior cervical fusion with discectomy) at C5-6-7. Also have a badly herniated disc at C3-4, a torn disc at L4-5, and bulging discs at T1-2-3. I did physical therapy before and after the surgery, have multiple steroid trigger point injections each year, and had a lumbar epidural and cervical facet joint injections under fluoroscopy (with sedation). And I still can't do 80% of what I used to do.
Bottom line was either go on disability or go to a pain management doctor. My insurance doesn't cover it, but paying out of pocket beats going on disability and changing the entire financial level of lifestyle of my wife and 3 kids.
A good pain management doctor will usually put you on a daily regimen that will include muscle relaxers, a long acting opioid pain medication, and a shorter acting opioid for breakthrough pain.
People have major misconceptions about pain meds, because they don't understand the differences between physical dependency and addiction. A PROPERLY followed regimen of pain control will greatly enhance your quality of life, but misuse of the same meds will destroy your life. For me, pain management has made life liveable again. Most physicians are clueless about pain meds - they are just uninformed and afraid of the DEA. Dr. Jennifer Schneider, a leader in the field and author of the book 'Living With Chronic Pain', gives a quiz to the doctors in her audience before she lectures on pain management . About 90% of them fail the quiz.
Some misconceptions:
- You don't have many long term adverse effects on organs from long term opioid use. Non-narcotic pain meds (like NSAIDs and most anti-inflammatory meds) do MUCH more liver and kidney damage with prolonged usage. Opioids are much safer long-term for your organs.
- You don't build up much of a tolerance to the pain-killing aspect of opioid meds. What happens is they help the pain, so you increase your physical activity - which then makes your physical ailments worse and thus makes your meds seem less effective.
- You don't get a "buzz" when you're on opioids for a long time (unless you just keep increasing the number of pills you take because you're looking for a buzz). In the beginning, you might get that "warm and fuzzy" feeling with certain dosages. But you quickly build a tolerance to these side effects - though not a tolerance to the pain-killing effects. If you have to keep increasing your meds, or you are getting a buzz from the amount you need to take to have relief, then you need to be on a different med.
-The vast majority of people on opioids who take them PROPERLY do not become addicted when they get off the meds if their condition improves to a point where the meds are no longer medically necessary.

The problem is that too many doctors are misinformed, and too many people seek to use narcotic meds inappropriately, which creates a stigma and in turn makes doctors even more reluctant to prescribe meds that really work.

[quote:38kh4sda]I can't believe the bitch is still alive, let alone walking. [/quote:38kh4sda]

The reality is that people can take pretty large doses or narcotics without doing much damage - if someone is taking Percocet or Vicodin, which is going to have Tylenol in it as well, they will reach a toxic level of Tylenol MUCH quicker than they will reach a toxic level of the narcotic. People will either die from acute liver failure from the Tylenol that is in the meds, or they will die from taking the wrong combination of drugs (e.g. Heath Ledger), or taking the drugs with alcohol which exacerbates the central nervous system depression (you just stop breathing). They don't die that often from too much of the opioid.

Bottom line is - if your life is virtually destroyed by spinal problems, a good pain management doctor can increase your quality of life 100% if you have the willpower to take your meds as prescribed and for the right reasons. The doctor I go to works closely with the Feds, and he's helping them shut down over 30 pain clinics in the state right now. It's tough to find the right doctor with so many illegitimate pain clinics around, but if you find the right doctor, you can't put a price on your quality of life.

Let me clarify something here. My back problems I consider to be a minor annoyance.

It goes out about once a year. Maybe twice every three years. The best course of treatment I have found has been to use these strong opiate painkillers, but in complete moderation. The first time I was prescribed them I took one at work and will not repeat that mistake again. My job doesn't require much movement, or lifting of any sort so I can get through the day with the discomfort. I would take a pill when I got home and could relax, and another before bed. Two nights of this and I would be right as rain. The initial prescription I was given lasted me for about two and half years and I threw the rest of the pills out because they were past their expiration date. I've had issues in the past with dependency on prescription meds. Weaning off of demorol after an operation was rather difficult (so was having your rib cage split open, but that's another story). So I approach the opiate group of meds with caution as I'm acutely aware of their downside.

My reason for taking them is not so much for the pain I'm in. While uncomfortable, it's not unmanageable. They simply have enough effect on my body to relax muscles that would typically remain in spasm with other meds and allow me to regain my mobility faster than any other treatment I've experienced. I can't very well go to a pain clinic or ask for a referral when it's not the pain I need help with. Perhaps there's another drug available that isn't quite so strong that would have a similar effect, but the doctors will not explore that avenue or even listen to the patient about what has been successful in the past. They will not even look at alternatives to the meds their prescribing me when I tell them that they have not worked in the past. Same script every time. If they offered an alternative I would gladly try it out.

Now I know there's a doctor out there that will listen and help me sort out what I need. Unfortunately I haven't spent any time looking for a new GP since I've moved to a new city. Ultimately the blame rests on my shoulders. Still it's frustrating when your run into the "typical" doctor's mindset and wind up with no help and an ear that's unwilling to listen. Even more frustrating when you begin to think that the pharmacist would offer more help than the doctors they are subservient too. Like an honest mechanic, the good guys are out there. It's just a shame we have to look so hard to find them.

Glad to hear your back troubles are only occasional - my lower back was like that for 30 years and my neck for 20 years (I just turned 42). They would go out maybe once every 3 or 4 months, and I wouldn't even go to the doctor or take anything for it - just rest for a couple days and it would disappear. It wasn't until right after Katrina, when I had a flareup and instead of resting had to spend a couple months of helping my dad gut his house, etc., that my problem became constant.
There are so many meds out there, and it is amazing how one thing might do nothing for one person and work wonders for another. You just need to find out what will work best for you on those few occasions you need it, and here's a place that might help you out:
[url:1gbzjmgp]http://messageboard.spine-health.com/[/url:1gbzjmgp]

Check out the forums there, especially the meds section of the forum, and you will find tons of valuable info and discussion on various meds and might pick up a lead on what might work for you.

Thanks for the info I'll look into it.

I wish my back would right itself with a couple of days of rest. Without treatment of any sort, when I've tried to just tough it out, it lasts for a week to ten days.

For some reason I always feel guilty about asking for a refill on my 'scripts.

[quote:3hazaidl]For some reason I always feel guilty about asking for a refill on my 'scripts.[/quote:3hazaidl]

Someone with legitimate chronic pain problems shouldn't feel any guiltier than a diabetic getting a refill on an insulin prescription. The stigma comes from those who abuse medications rather than using them for their suited purpose.
Here are two articles from Dr. Schneider that are very enlightening on the subject:
[url:3hazaidl]http://www.nationalpainfoundation.org/MyTreatment/MyTreatment_Addiction…]
[url:3hazaidl]http://www.nationalpainfoundation.org/MyTreatment/Spotlight_Schneider.a…]

I never even take my meds within the prescribed time...a 30 day supply can be 60+ for me easy.
I believe I feel guilty out of what I fear others think, likely comes from my former alcoholism

My problem was and is with breathing. Diagnosed as a kid with allergy and asthma. Growing up had to get shots twice a week to control. Then came college finally and Proventil was introduced. I sucked that shit down like a good bottle of whiskey daily. Finally, I have a doctor who asks the right questions and wants the right treatments for his patients. No more heres your annual presciption of Proventil take as many as you want. Some years I would go through as many as 15 cannisters.

I now take Flovent once every two days and hoping this year to wean it to once every three days and slowly continue to build my tolerance back up. I can actually ride now a 20 minute moto and come back not needing any spray. I only went through 2 cannisters this past year. Anyone who is taking any kind of inhaler knows what I mean. Flovent has helped right my ship and I can't thank my doc enough. Plus he doesn't give me shit about riding a dirt bike either.

[quote="flarider":383eojfn]I never even take my meds within the prescribed time...a 30 day supply can be 60+ for me easy.
I believe I feel guilty out of what I fear others think, likely comes from my former alcoholism[/quote:383eojfn]


To your continued success remaining alcohol free for the rest of your life Dave.
Sorry to get off subject.

[quote="Digger437":80yfcx2d]My problem was and is with breathing. Diagnosed as a kid with allergy and asthma. Growing up had to get shots twice a week to control. Then came college finally and Proventil was introduced. I sucked that shit down like a good bottle of whiskey daily. Finally, I have a doctor who asks the right questions and wants the right treatments for his patients. No more heres your annual presciption of Proventil take as many as you want. Some years I would go through as many as 15 cannisters.

I now take Flovent once every two days and hoping this year to wean it to once every three days and slowly continue to build my tolerance back up. I can actually ride now a 20 minute moto and come back not needing any spray. I only went through 2 cannisters this past year. Anyone who is taking any kind of inhaler knows what I mean. Flovent has helped right my ship and I can't thank my doc enough. Plus he doesn't give me shit about riding a dirt bike either.[/quote:80yfcx2d]

I cannot image the feeling of not getting in enough air in your lungs.
I'm glad that you have found a course of treatment thru a good physician that has worked.
I know the feeling for a short time being on a ventilator; not fun.
Even better; doc not giving you crap being a dirt bike rider.

[quote:6rccuojx]Even better; doc not giving you crap being a dirt bike rider.[/quote:6rccuojx]

Cool story - when I was getting ready to have my cervical fusion, I asked the neurosurgeon if it would safe to ride a dirt bike again. I was thinking he'd say no way (especially when you think about the damage that metal plate screwed into you're spinal column could do if you had a neck injury afterwards - seems like it would tear the crap out of everything). He tells me, "Sure, you can ride, but give it about 3 or 4 months after the surgery." As it turns out, I had to give it up anyway because I just have too much neck and back pain even since the surgery. I actually rode about 10 laps on my brother's bike and a friend's bike this past weekend - first time I've been back on a dirtbike since '05 - but I paid hell for it all week though in pain, so I'll stick to my streetbike from now on.
But anyway, the neurosurgeon told me how he did his residency somewhere near Tallahassee (you know what's coming here...), and how they used to ride dirt bikes growing up. A buddy of his told him, "You need to come with us and watch this little redheaded kid ride at his private track - he's getting ready to turn pro." Turns out he was friends with RC's old mechanic's brother or something to that effect and went and spent a day at RC's track. I got a good laugh out of that and filled him in on what happened to that little redhead since then (I even wore one of my RC t-shirts to a few of my appointments).