Grenaded GasGas 2 Stroke

CBE
Posts
130
Joined
12/23/2019
Location
Minersville, PA US
5/15/2024 1:05pm

3
5/16/2024 5:00pm

Oddly similar recall when the ‘22 125/150s were eating rod bearings. 

3
11/3/2024 6:37pm Edited Date/Time 11/3/2024 6:42pm

IMG 1634 1.jpeg?VersionId=IMG 1630 3My buddy just had this same failure on his 23 gasgas MC250 with like 24hours on it. Not sure what caused this. I tore it apart today, going to need a new crank, crank bearings, crank seals, top end with new cylinder and definitely an aftermarket head. Glad I bought a new YZ250 myself. What a bummer. IMG 1635 1IMG 1629 0.jpeg?VersionId=cdc.5Cyy0

5
burn1986
Posts
12246
Joined
4/16/2010
Location
bossier city, LA US
11/3/2024 8:22pm

 Crazy 😳

What is wrong with these motors?!

1

The Shop

11/3/2024 10:06pm
burn1986 wrote:

 Crazy 😳

What is wrong with these motors?!

Looks like a conrod failure, snapped at small end, sending piston into head.

6
JMX82
Posts
1574
Joined
5/9/2013
Location
Hyllykallio FI
11/4/2024 12:43am
burn1986 wrote:

 Crazy 😳

What is wrong with these motors?!

Cheap Asian made components...  

3
8
burn1986
Posts
12246
Joined
4/16/2010
Location
bossier city, LA US
11/6/2024 5:19pm

I’ve seen a lot of 2-stroke failures, but I’ve never seen anything like this - that head 😬

11/6/2024 6:10pm
burn1986 wrote:

I’ve seen a lot of 2-stroke failures, but I’ve never seen anything like this - that head 😬

I’d be worried about catching shrapnel from a failure like that. 

2
1
jg791
Posts
24
Joined
4/11/2023
Location
Lexington, KY US
11/23/2024 6:35pm

I have one of these bikes (2023 MC 250) that's jetted and running great on VP T2 (40:1). I've had no problems other than the finicky Mikuni carb needing the gasket rebuild kit, but I've been following this thread for the past year and the fact that the stories keep coming is concerning. I love this bike but I'm worried it's a ticking time bomb.

What would the proactive solution even be here? Preemptively replacing the conrod and top end with something other than OEM? I would prefer not to have my bike detonate off a jump face. I'd e-mail KTM/Pierer/GG but I am entirely confident that would provide no useful information.

11/23/2024 6:37pm
jg791 wrote:
I have one of these bikes (2023 MC 250) that's jetted and running great on VP T2 (40:1). I've had no problems other than the finicky...

I have one of these bikes (2023 MC 250) that's jetted and running great on VP T2 (40:1). I've had no problems other than the finicky Mikuni carb needing the gasket rebuild kit, but I've been following this thread for the past year and the fact that the stories keep coming is concerning. I love this bike but I'm worried it's a ticking time bomb.

What would the proactive solution even be here? Preemptively replacing the conrod and top end with something other than OEM? I would prefer not to have my bike detonate off a jump face. I'd e-mail KTM/Pierer/GG but I am entirely confident that would provide no useful information.

KTM/Pierer/GG have bigger issues, like trying to avoid bankruptcy!

1
3
CPR
Posts
6568
Joined
10/4/2018
Location
AU
11/23/2024 6:39pm
burn1986 wrote:

 Crazy 😳

What is wrong with these motors?!

JMX82 wrote:

Cheap Asian made components...  

Like Honda, Yamaha, Kawasaki and Suzuki?

2
jg791
Posts
24
Joined
4/11/2023
Location
Lexington, KY US
11/23/2024 6:43pm
jg791 wrote:
I have one of these bikes (2023 MC 250) that's jetted and running great on VP T2 (40:1). I've had no problems other than the finicky...

I have one of these bikes (2023 MC 250) that's jetted and running great on VP T2 (40:1). I've had no problems other than the finicky Mikuni carb needing the gasket rebuild kit, but I've been following this thread for the past year and the fact that the stories keep coming is concerning. I love this bike but I'm worried it's a ticking time bomb.

What would the proactive solution even be here? Preemptively replacing the conrod and top end with something other than OEM? I would prefer not to have my bike detonate off a jump face. I'd e-mail KTM/Pierer/GG but I am entirely confident that would provide no useful information.

KTM/Pierer/GG have bigger issues, like trying to avoid bankruptcy!

Exactly lol.

3
FGR01
Posts
6002
Joined
10/1/2006
Location
AZ US
Fantasy
11/23/2024 7:10pm
jg791 wrote:
I have one of these bikes (2023 MC 250) that's jetted and running great on VP T2 (40:1). I've had no problems other than the finicky...

I have one of these bikes (2023 MC 250) that's jetted and running great on VP T2 (40:1). I've had no problems other than the finicky Mikuni carb needing the gasket rebuild kit, but I've been following this thread for the past year and the fact that the stories keep coming is concerning. I love this bike but I'm worried it's a ticking time bomb.

What would the proactive solution even be here? Preemptively replacing the conrod and top end with something other than OEM? I would prefer not to have my bike detonate off a jump face. I'd e-mail KTM/Pierer/GG but I am entirely confident that would provide no useful information.

Yes, put either a Pro-X or Wossner rod in and a Wossner forged piston if you want a little more assurance.  

1
11/23/2024 7:10pm
jg791 wrote:
I have one of these bikes (2023 MC 250) that's jetted and running great on VP T2 (40:1). I've had no problems other than the finicky...

I have one of these bikes (2023 MC 250) that's jetted and running great on VP T2 (40:1). I've had no problems other than the finicky Mikuni carb needing the gasket rebuild kit, but I've been following this thread for the past year and the fact that the stories keep coming is concerning. I love this bike but I'm worried it's a ticking time bomb.

What would the proactive solution even be here? Preemptively replacing the conrod and top end with something other than OEM? I would prefer not to have my bike detonate off a jump face. I'd e-mail KTM/Pierer/GG but I am entirely confident that would provide no useful information.

KTM/Pierer/GG have bigger issues, like trying to avoid bankruptcy!

jg791 wrote:

Exactly lol.

jG791, 

The fix is to have the crank sent off to have a prox or wossner rod installed. Brian Lambert at Mototech does a great job and is very affordable. He can do anything and I highly recommend. He gets brand new bikes like this and changes the rod out and better piston before bikes are even ridden. He did mention that he has seen a lot blow up  under 20 hours but said if it lasts longer its usually ok for the most part. I wrench on the side so tearing down motors are not a problem. I take care of a lot of buddies in NorCal which helps as dealers are so expensive. 

MPmotors_MX 

IMG 1794 0
3
jg791
Posts
24
Joined
4/11/2023
Location
Lexington, KY US
11/23/2024 7:26pm

FGR01 & MikePierce244,

Thank you both, I'll look into this.

2
11/24/2024 11:17am

My two strokes get wössner rods, my fourstrokes get pankl or carillo. 

I don’t send mine off, I do them myself. 

 

1
jg791
Posts
24
Joined
4/11/2023
Location
Lexington, KY US
7/5/2025 5:31am

Life got in the way and I've been riding other bikes, so out of an abundance of caution, my GasGas 250 sat unused in the garage for 6 months. Doing a teardown to have a new Pro-X rod put on (along with a TSP head), I noticed a lot of wear on the small end. You might not be able to tell in the pic, but the small end isn't just worn, there is a significant height difference in the material - it's chewed away like I took a belt sander to it.

This bike only has 5.7 hours. Run on a Mikuni + 40:1 VP T2, stock head/piston/etc., no crazy mods. Used only for moto 5-10 times, definitely not at a ridiculous pace since the bike isn't even broken in yet.

I e-mailed an engine guy here in Kentucky for his thoughts (since I'm not an expert), who said this rod design, with the cutout on the small end, was a design KTM/GG switched to some years back, and which created small end issues on KTM bikes when they were essentially unheard of before. The problems are created due to the loss in load-bearing surface. Interestingly, the Pro-X rod does not have the cutaway; his recommendation was installing the Pro-X rod, as others have stated here.

Just adding another data point in case anyone finds it helpful.

4
burn1986
Posts
12246
Joined
4/16/2010
Location
bossier city, LA US
7/5/2025 5:53am
jg791 wrote:
Life got in the way and I've been riding other bikes, so out of an abundance of caution, my GasGas 250 sat unused in the garage...

Life got in the way and I've been riding other bikes, so out of an abundance of caution, my GasGas 250 sat unused in the garage for 6 months. Doing a teardown to have a new Pro-X rod put on (along with a TSP head), I noticed a lot of wear on the small end. You might not be able to tell in the pic, but the small end isn't just worn, there is a significant height difference in the material - it's chewed away like I took a belt sander to it.

This bike only has 5.7 hours. Run on a Mikuni + 40:1 VP T2, stock head/piston/etc., no crazy mods. Used only for moto 5-10 times, definitely not at a ridiculous pace since the bike isn't even broken in yet.

I e-mailed an engine guy here in Kentucky for his thoughts (since I'm not an expert), who said this rod design, with the cutout on the small end, was a design KTM/GG switched to some years back, and which created small end issues on KTM bikes when they were essentially unheard of before. The problems are created due to the loss in load-bearing surface. Interestingly, the Pro-X rod does not have the cutaway; his recommendation was installing the Pro-X rod, as others have stated here.

Just adding another data point in case anyone finds it helpful.

Wow. I can’t imagine the reason for the cutout in the small end anyway? Crazy that you have to do engine work on a brand new “expensive” 2-stroke. 

2
jg791
Posts
24
Joined
4/11/2023
Location
Lexington, KY US
7/5/2025 7:26am
burn1986 wrote:
Wow. I can’t imagine the reason for the cutout in the small end anyway? Crazy that you have to do engine work on a brand new...

Wow. I can’t imagine the reason for the cutout in the small end anyway? Crazy that you have to do engine work on a brand new “expensive” 2-stroke. 

I'm not sure, and to be honest I hesitated posting this as I'm not sure exactly how much wear is normal for a 2 stroke motor and didn't want to set off a false alarm. What stood out to me though is that the wear on the con rod is the exact place that appears to be failing in a lot of the pictures above where you can see the rod. 

I wonder if the wear is normal and the design of the rod just causes it to fail, or the wear is abnormal and the cut-out just causes it to fail faster?

FGR01
Posts
6002
Joined
10/1/2006
Location
AZ US
Fantasy
7/5/2025 8:10am

All the 250/300 that have that huge cutout slot are the same bikes that KTM specs at 60:1.   I have a suspicion there's a relation there.  Running such a low amount of oil they are trying to get max oil to the wrist pin bearing.    I'm doing the same as jg791 - ProX rod and 40:1.

2
1
burn1986
Posts
12246
Joined
4/16/2010
Location
bossier city, LA US
7/5/2025 8:19am Edited Date/Time 7/5/2025 8:29am
jg791 wrote:
I'm not sure, and to be honest I hesitated posting this as I'm not sure exactly how much wear is normal for a 2 stroke motor...

I'm not sure, and to be honest I hesitated posting this as I'm not sure exactly how much wear is normal for a 2 stroke motor and didn't want to set off a false alarm. What stood out to me though is that the wear on the con rod is the exact place that appears to be failing in a lot of the pictures above where you can see the rod. 

I wonder if the wear is normal and the design of the rod just causes it to fail, or the wear is abnormal and the cut-out just causes it to fail faster?

Obviously you need a new rod ($150sh). That rod will fail. However, it might be just as easy to get an entire crank (hot rod crank $450ish) for the price of having a new rod installed, especially if you do it yourself. 
 

https://www.revzilla.com/dirt-bike/hot-rods-crankshaft-ktm-husqvarna-ga…

1
SEEMEFIRST
Posts
13502
Joined
8/21/2006
Location
Arlington, TX US
7/5/2025 8:30am
jg791 wrote:
Life got in the way and I've been riding other bikes, so out of an abundance of caution, my GasGas 250 sat unused in the garage...

Life got in the way and I've been riding other bikes, so out of an abundance of caution, my GasGas 250 sat unused in the garage for 6 months. Doing a teardown to have a new Pro-X rod put on (along with a TSP head), I noticed a lot of wear on the small end. You might not be able to tell in the pic, but the small end isn't just worn, there is a significant height difference in the material - it's chewed away like I took a belt sander to it.

This bike only has 5.7 hours. Run on a Mikuni + 40:1 VP T2, stock head/piston/etc., no crazy mods. Used only for moto 5-10 times, definitely not at a ridiculous pace since the bike isn't even broken in yet.

I e-mailed an engine guy here in Kentucky for his thoughts (since I'm not an expert), who said this rod design, with the cutout on the small end, was a design KTM/GG switched to some years back, and which created small end issues on KTM bikes when they were essentially unheard of before. The problems are created due to the loss in load-bearing surface. Interestingly, the Pro-X rod does not have the cutaway; his recommendation was installing the Pro-X rod, as others have stated here.

Just adding another data point in case anyone finds it helpful.

From looking at other photos, it looks to me that the rod was ground that way during manufacturing.  That is if I'm understanding what part you think was ground off during operation. 

1
FGR01
Posts
6002
Joined
10/1/2006
Location
AZ US
Fantasy
7/5/2025 8:33am
jg791 wrote:
I'm not sure, and to be honest I hesitated posting this as I'm not sure exactly how much wear is normal for a 2 stroke motor...

I'm not sure, and to be honest I hesitated posting this as I'm not sure exactly how much wear is normal for a 2 stroke motor and didn't want to set off a false alarm. What stood out to me though is that the wear on the con rod is the exact place that appears to be failing in a lot of the pictures above where you can see the rod. 

I wonder if the wear is normal and the design of the rod just causes it to fail, or the wear is abnormal and the cut-out just causes it to fail faster?

burn1986 wrote:
Obviously you need a new rod ($150sh). That rod will fail. However, it might be just as easy to get an entire crank (hot rod crank...

Obviously you need a new rod ($150sh). That rod will fail. However, it might be just as easy to get an entire crank (hot rod crank $450ish) for the price of having a new rod installed, especially if you do it yourself. 
 

https://www.revzilla.com/dirt-bike/hot-rods-crankshaft-ktm-husqvarna-ga…

Stock KTM cranks are very good.   A stock crank rebuilt with a good rod is a better option than a Hot Rods crank.  Getting it rebuilt by a good builder also ensures it will be trued very well, which an out of the box Hot Rods crank might not be.  Money wise, rebuilding might still come out cheaper than a complete Hot Rods crank, if you have a good guy local and don't have to pay shipping.

4
burn1986
Posts
12246
Joined
4/16/2010
Location
bossier city, LA US
7/5/2025 8:45am
FGR01 wrote:
Stock KTM cranks are very good.   A stock crank rebuilt with a good rod is a better option than a Hot Rods crank.  Getting it...

Stock KTM cranks are very good.   A stock crank rebuilt with a good rod is a better option than a Hot Rods crank.  Getting it rebuilt by a good builder also ensures it will be trued very well, which an out of the box Hot Rods crank might not be.  Money wise, rebuilding might still come out cheaper than a complete Hot Rods crank, if you have a good guy local and don't have to pay shipping.

Cool 👍

burn1986
Posts
12246
Joined
4/16/2010
Location
bossier city, LA US
7/5/2025 9:39am Edited Date/Time 7/5/2025 9:41am

Look where the rod broke

IMG 0274 2

 

1
jg791
Posts
24
Joined
4/11/2023
Location
Lexington, KY US
7/5/2025 9:46am
SEEMEFIRST wrote:
From looking at other photos, it looks to me that the rod was ground that way during manufacturing.  That is if I'm understanding what part you...

From looking at other photos, it looks to me that the rod was ground that way during manufacturing.  That is if I'm understanding what part you think was ground off during operation. 

Yeah I was referring to the material worn off at the small end surface, not the cut-out in the middle (which is confirmed to be a change KTM made to the rods) - not sure if that's what you meant?

1
burn1986
Posts
12246
Joined
4/16/2010
Location
bossier city, LA US
7/5/2025 9:50am
jg791 wrote:
Yeah I was referring to the material worn off at the small end surface, not the cut-out in the middle (which is confirmed to be a...

Yeah I was referring to the material worn off at the small end surface, not the cut-out in the middle (which is confirmed to be a change KTM made to the rods) - not sure if that's what you meant?

Ohhh. I was thinking you meant the cut out part or the circle itself. 

Even so, a new rod will most likely fix the (potential) problem 😎

1
jg791
Posts
24
Joined
4/11/2023
Location
Lexington, KY US
7/5/2025 9:53am
burn1986 wrote:

Ohhh. I was thinking you meant the cut out part or the circle itself. 

Even so, a new rod will most likely fix the (potential) problem 😎

No worries, and that seems to be the general consensus here and with the shops I've talked to. Absolutely bonkers a new bike needs this as a precautionary measure - I've emailed GasGas corporate for their take on it, so we'll see where that goes.

1
SEEMEFIRST
Posts
13502
Joined
8/21/2006
Location
Arlington, TX US
7/5/2025 9:58am
SEEMEFIRST wrote:
From looking at other photos, it looks to me that the rod was ground that way during manufacturing.  That is if I'm understanding what part you...

From looking at other photos, it looks to me that the rod was ground that way during manufacturing.  That is if I'm understanding what part you think was ground off during operation. 

jg791 wrote:
Yeah I was referring to the material worn off at the small end surface, not the cut-out in the middle (which is confirmed to be a...

Yeah I was referring to the material worn off at the small end surface, not the cut-out in the middle (which is confirmed to be a change KTM made to the rods) - not sure if that's what you meant?

Yeah, that's how they're made. They've ground off the small end, maybe for clearance inside the piston.

That slot cut in the end looks like is the problem to me. Not sure why they felt they needed that.

2

Post a reply to: Grenaded GasGas 2 Stroke

The Latest