Posts
3721
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
Winter Park, FL, USA
Edited Date/Time
1/27/2012 5:18pm
"Practice Flagging Status" I hope this catches on.
I have been meaning to post this for a few months.....
There is a really nice track around Central Florida that does not have flaggers for practice. I know several of my friends that have been injured there, not because of crashing, but by either being landed on or by landing on something that crashed. No quibble there, they chose to ride. I absolutely have no problem with the track and their policy.
I will not ride there for practice. I will not ride a track that has no flaggers, but, I WANT to ride there. I'm sure there are tracks all over the country that do not have flaggers and people choose to ride there.
I would like to take practice flagging to another level....this could also REDUCE the amount of flaggers on a large track and INTRODUCE flaggers on a track that does not have them - for whatever reason.
Basically, in my experience, most local tracks can be safely flagged by 3 flaggers for practice. National type tracks like Monster Mountain and Budds would take a few more, but not many. It requires a flagger on either side of the track and one in the middle on the highest peak jumps. Usually, there are 2 or 3 blind jumps in a track and they are usually (geographically) spaced pretty far apart. The flaggers would be at these dangerous spots firstly, but need to have a clear view of all the other flaggers and most (if not all) of the rest of the track. In my experience, there are spots at most of the tracks that I can think of that would work in almost every case.
Here is the big change. When ANYONE falls during a practice, ALL flaggers display a caution flag. When the first flagger sees a downed rider, all flaggers display. The ENTIRE track goes to caution until the hazard has been fixed. For a practice, there is no "spot" flagging, where a flagger leaves his position to cover the rider in the track. When this happens, the previous position is left unattended and the rest of the track is still at full speed. When flaggers "stay at home" and display full track caution status, riders can see the yellow flags showing caution for the whole track and IMMEDIATELY ride at caution speed no jumping ANYWHERE on the track. All riders display a "hand-up" showing need for caution to all speeding riders unaware of caution. After all, it IS just practice. Any rider not respecting this status is escorted off the facility. It is somewhat of a self police-ing policy. AFTER the track is on FULL CAUTION, the flagger can attend to the rider. This does not take but 10- or 20 seconds.
I know I can spot a caution flag during practice from 3 straits over. Yes, this is change and there will be a learning curve to riders, but a flagging bullitin can be passed out at the front gate and (possibly) a signature stating that the rider is aware of the new flagging status. If you don't like it, go home.
I am so tired of seeing someone hurt because of second vehicle crashes or of improper flagging (or no flagging) during practice. It can be reduced, probably not eliminated, but certainly reduced.
I have been meaning to post this for a few months.....
There is a really nice track around Central Florida that does not have flaggers for practice. I know several of my friends that have been injured there, not because of crashing, but by either being landed on or by landing on something that crashed. No quibble there, they chose to ride. I absolutely have no problem with the track and their policy.
I will not ride there for practice. I will not ride a track that has no flaggers, but, I WANT to ride there. I'm sure there are tracks all over the country that do not have flaggers and people choose to ride there.
I would like to take practice flagging to another level....this could also REDUCE the amount of flaggers on a large track and INTRODUCE flaggers on a track that does not have them - for whatever reason.
Basically, in my experience, most local tracks can be safely flagged by 3 flaggers for practice. National type tracks like Monster Mountain and Budds would take a few more, but not many. It requires a flagger on either side of the track and one in the middle on the highest peak jumps. Usually, there are 2 or 3 blind jumps in a track and they are usually (geographically) spaced pretty far apart. The flaggers would be at these dangerous spots firstly, but need to have a clear view of all the other flaggers and most (if not all) of the rest of the track. In my experience, there are spots at most of the tracks that I can think of that would work in almost every case.
Here is the big change. When ANYONE falls during a practice, ALL flaggers display a caution flag. When the first flagger sees a downed rider, all flaggers display. The ENTIRE track goes to caution until the hazard has been fixed. For a practice, there is no "spot" flagging, where a flagger leaves his position to cover the rider in the track. When this happens, the previous position is left unattended and the rest of the track is still at full speed. When flaggers "stay at home" and display full track caution status, riders can see the yellow flags showing caution for the whole track and IMMEDIATELY ride at caution speed no jumping ANYWHERE on the track. All riders display a "hand-up" showing need for caution to all speeding riders unaware of caution. After all, it IS just practice. Any rider not respecting this status is escorted off the facility. It is somewhat of a self police-ing policy. AFTER the track is on FULL CAUTION, the flagger can attend to the rider. This does not take but 10- or 20 seconds.
I know I can spot a caution flag during practice from 3 straits over. Yes, this is change and there will be a learning curve to riders, but a flagging bullitin can be passed out at the front gate and (possibly) a signature stating that the rider is aware of the new flagging status. If you don't like it, go home.
I am so tired of seeing someone hurt because of second vehicle crashes or of improper flagging (or no flagging) during practice. It can be reduced, probably not eliminated, but certainly reduced.
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That's stupid.
Doesn't matter. You either budget the $150 for the (6 hr) practice session or don't. The first few weeks at ACE MX when they opened for big bikes only had about 5 bikes on the track during the last hour. NO flaggers left their post. AWESOME!
Clearly, if you are open all day, and have periodic riders, this would have to be modified. How about one flagger at the highest point on the track monitoring the whole place. I would even consider riding with that. I can always monitor that position during my practicing.
The one track near us that has the most jumps and most blind spots is the one with no flaggers. Little kids crash all the time, and you can't see them in the valley between jumps until it's too late. It's a shame because otherwise its a nice facility.
I'd be willing to volunteer, if the tracks broke up practice and just a few people volunteered to flag when their class was off, it could cover it easily.
Also- anytime a kid is out there practicing there is a parent hanging around. Parents could pick up a flag and sit on a blind jump since they are there watching anyway.
I've been doing flagging and comunications since 1980 doing everything from MX to sports cars, IMSA & SCCA, etc. One thing that happens is "Over flagging" tends to make the participants not trust what thier seeing. That is, if they see a flag at a spot where there is no blockage, the next time by, they start going full speed. My expierence tells me that there better be a reason for the flag, or they will start ignoring them.
I understand the part where you said all participants read, sign, and understand the rule, but we both know how long they'll adhere to that. You'ld have to really bust some balls to get that rolling.
Another thing that I find priceless is radios. These can be had for about $50.00 a pair for the FRS walkie talkies. That lets the flagger concentrate on his section without looking to see if the track is under yellow somewhere else.
Like I said, it sounds good, and if you can get it to work, GREAT. It just might be tough getting it started, and you'll need a full time offficial 9judge, jury, and exicutioner)handing down sentences.
You wouldn't be riding in the entire states of Louisiana and Mississippi then.
Your idea is nice, easy, great....BUT... It won't be implemented around these parts. 1st thing they will say.... where do I get these flagging people? then.. How am I going to pay for them? Then... where did these flagging people go that I got just last week??
Heck, we can hardly get anyone to flag on race days. ( 2 tracks do a good job at it) Tracks don't want to fork out a few bucks, don't give the flaggers any shade, and basically...they are bored silly and aren't doing much when someone does go down because the track owners are too frikkin lazy to take 10 minutes to give them instruction.
I take photo's at some of the events and I end up banging my equipment around running to where I've seen someone go down, while the parents/spectators just basically do nothing.
We're working on that right now for our night track. It's pretty cool. It uses an ever changing radio signal so it's almost impossible to be jammed (Say from some ass in the pits). It uses high intensity LED lights that "Paint" a horizontal beam across the track. We're trying to place them before the jumps that are hard to see the tops of, and in the flag stands on the ones that are easily seen.
There are flashing yellows that can be turned on individually, or all at once. There are also Red lights to get thier attention before the get back to the finish. Many times the incident is between the pack (during a race) and the finish line, this allows us to alert them all the way around the track.
Right now we have one control box in the tower, but we're building another for the finish line stand to control "Red lights" .
Budds seems to treat its flaggers well and has a big staff. But they don't run practice days except the day before a race.
The idea of lights that can be triggered by a guy in the tower is a great idea. Most tracks have at least one person there that could do this.
This track has remote manless flaggers. They were very effective at key spots on the track as far as I could tell. I wish I asked the owners a little more about them but I am sure a quick email and they would be happy to give anyone more info.
What would everyone feel is a fair price for a prepped track, flaggers and medical attention on site? I would pay 50 bucks hell maybe even 100 bucks just for the extra saftey. I know if i miss one day of work, I lose a lot more than 100 bucks b/c I landed on someone or someone landed on me.
Tim/others,
Our local track has exactly this. There are yellow lights strategically placed and controlled by "flagmen" in 4 small stands around the track....however, they CAN be controlled by one person in the main tower.
It works excellent, and I doubt it would cost more than, say, 5-10 practices where you were paying flagmen.
I told them they should be marketing the setup to other tracks....
MR
Pit Row
Why is this? What can you do for 20 dollars, for all day? Those are the same riders who bitch b/c of stuff like this also. I say raise the price, make the tracks safer, more maintained and staffed. Will this run some riders out? Of course, but if we dont do it then uncle sam will..... There is no way I would own a facility, run it, maintain it and be burden of the risk at 20 bucks a head.
You would like my place.
Based on what was said earlier, "the hospital will go after the track" much less the rider or family. The question you should be asking is, "can i afford not to have them?"
According to people here. YES! I really dont think tracks need flaggers for "Open Practice." It is that persons choice to inspect the track and if they dont like that there are no flaggers then dont ride! Its just like people complaining about jumps on tracks. If you dont like the jump, dont jump it. The answer is so simple. Anyone ever heard "RIDE AT YOUR OWN RISK"
According to people here. YES! I really dont think tracks need flaggers for "Open Practice." It is that persons choice to inspect the track and if they dont like that there are no flaggers then dont ride! Its just like people complaining about jumps on tracks. If you dont like the jump, dont jump it. The answer is so simple. Anyone ever heard "RIDE AT YOUR OWN RISK"[/quote:1lbuo2oc]
Thanks for the support. I will be seriously considering going members only soon.
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