Kailub Russell helping Yamaha develop a 350?

wrc777
Posts
3112
Joined
5/21/2020
Location
Greenwood, IN US
Fantasy
10/11/2024 7:13am
Marty1028 wrote:
I went from a 16 250SXF to a 24 EC300. Tell you what a 300 is a hell of a lot of bike. More finess required...

I went from a 16 250SXF to a 24 EC300. Tell you what a 300 is a hell of a lot of bike. More finess required to ride it. You cant muscle it around like a 250f 

sam hain wrote:
I have a 24 TX300 and a 25 250XCF and my opinion is right the opposite of yours lol. The 250F wears me out and the...

I have a 24 TX300 and a 25 250XCF and my opinion is right the opposite of yours lol. The 250F wears me out and the 300 is a lot easier for me to carry momentum bc of the lack of engine braking. I feel like I have to ride the piss out of the 250F to get going and keep a flow in the woods. I'm most likely gonna sell the xcf and just keep the 300.

Marty1028 wrote:
I just get weird arm pump on the 300. My throttle arm locks up most likely due to the 2 stroke vibrations. My 250f i dont...

I just get weird arm pump on the 300. My throttle arm locks up most likely due to the 2 stroke vibrations. My 250f i dont have this problem. Both bikes wear me out the same lol.

The counterbalanced 250/300 have the least vibration of any bike I have ridden. 250f are paint shakers in comparison. You probably get arm pump because the throttle response is almost instantaneous compared to a 4t. Try riding a gear higher. 

5
1
Tryhard
Posts
548
Joined
6/6/2017
Location
VA US
10/11/2024 7:26am

I am not an Austrian bike fan by any means. I rode my friends 2018 350sxf the other day. Kick it till Monday got it right with the 350f, probably my favorite bike I've ever ridden. I do not like the air suspension, But the bike makes power everywhere, I rode it in aggressive mode and loved it 100%. 

1
2
sam hain
Posts
1178
Joined
11/8/2011
Location
TN US
10/11/2024 7:30am Edited Date/Time 10/11/2024 7:31am
EAmato88 wrote:

Incorrect. Same frame KX250 and KX450

Second sentence, https://motocrossactionmag.com/are-you-ready-for-the-all-new-2025-kawas…

Try listening about 4:30 in, ML says the frame has a different part number. MXA has as many typos in their web content as KTM does.

1

The Shop

EAmato88
Posts
558
Joined
1/23/2019
Location
Egg Harbor City, NJ US
10/11/2024 7:47am
EAmato88 wrote:

Incorrect. Same frame KX250 and KX450

Second sentence, https://motocrossactionmag.com/are-you-ready-for-the-all-new-2025-kawas…

sam hain wrote:

Try listening about 4:30 in, ML says the frame has a different part number. MXA has as many typos in their web content as KTM does.

The different part number comes from a slightly different head tube angle. Every other aspect of the frames are the same

3
soggy
Posts
8423
Joined
12/3/2018
Location
UT US
10/11/2024 7:50am
EAmato88 wrote:

Incorrect. Same frame KX250 and KX450

Second sentence, https://motocrossactionmag.com/are-you-ready-for-the-all-new-2025-kawas…

sam hain wrote:

Try listening about 4:30 in, ML says the frame has a different part number. MXA has as many typos in their web content as KTM does.

EAmato88 wrote:

The different part number comes from a slightly different head tube angle. Every other aspect of the frames are the same

Does that make them the same or not?  Changing head tube angles has a big affect on handling. 

5
1
z0py
Posts
13
Joined
8/30/2024
Location
Menifee, CA US
10/11/2024 9:03am

I have my 23' FC 350 pretty dialed at the moment. Spring forks, bladder in the rear, vented air box cover. For me, it's the best bike I've ever ridden.

Years ago, I used to moto on a 2005 YZ 250. I'm not sure if I'm being biased over time but that chassis and suspension was so damn good. I'd jump ship in a heartbeat to a YZ 350f to potentially get that chassis feel back.  

5
tackomoto
Posts
38
Joined
1/16/2019
Location
Charleston, WV US
10/12/2024 9:34am
z0py wrote:
I have my 23' FC 350 pretty dialed at the moment. Spring forks, bladder in the rear, vented air box cover. For me, it's the best...

I have my 23' FC 350 pretty dialed at the moment. Spring forks, bladder in the rear, vented air box cover. For me, it's the best bike I've ever ridden.

Years ago, I used to moto on a 2005 YZ 250. I'm not sure if I'm being biased over time but that chassis and suspension was so damn good. I'd jump ship in a heartbeat to a YZ 350f to potentially get that chassis feel back.  

Same here. I loved my 2020 350SXF engine. But hated every single other thing about it. I’ve owned three KTMs over the past couple of years, and they have all been rubbish quality. Always loved my Yamahas chassis feel and quality, just wanted a little more power than 250f. If the YZ250 two stroke was electric start, I’d snatch another one of those in a heart beat. 

4
PFitzG38
Posts
1743
Joined
11/6/2009
Location
Newport Beach, CA US
10/12/2024 6:56pm
kylemenz1 wrote:
Hope all manufactures do. Then MXDN can have a a real open class. MX2, MX1, open. 250, 350, 450. In all seriousness though. Do you guys think...

Hope all manufactures do. Then MXDN can have a a real open class. MX2, MX1, open. 250, 350, 450. 

In all seriousness though. Do you guys think there’s a big enough market for manufactures to produce another bike? Is it as simple as slapping. 350 motor in a 250 or 450 frame, or do they test and build completely different tooling to make a different frame?

It’s easier, a bigger piston, jug and different crank.    Done.

1
soggy
Posts
8423
Joined
12/3/2018
Location
UT US
10/13/2024 6:27am
kylemenz1 wrote:
Hope all manufactures do. Then MXDN can have a a real open class. MX2, MX1, open. 250, 350, 450. In all seriousness though. Do you guys think...

Hope all manufactures do. Then MXDN can have a a real open class. MX2, MX1, open. 250, 350, 450. 

In all seriousness though. Do you guys think there’s a big enough market for manufactures to produce another bike? Is it as simple as slapping. 350 motor in a 250 or 450 frame, or do they test and build completely different tooling to make a different frame?

PFitzG38 wrote:

It’s easier, a bigger piston, jug and different crank.    Done.

As far as ktm goes they are using the same frame and lower end as the 250 with different cyl, head, rod etc. if another oem chose to make one who knows how they’d do it. 

Kanewel433
Posts
203
Joined
4/27/2017
Location
Summerville, SC US
10/15/2024 8:31am

It feels like if Yamaha had a 350f developed and waiting in the wings, they would be stupid not to launch it right now while the KTM group is struggling financially and reducing their racing platform.   While sure, Yamaha may sell less of their own 250's or 450's, the sales from converts buying a Yz350f would certainly offset those losses.   

As for Kailub, I don't think KTM needs him back.  They have the reigning Champ Ben Kelley,  and the current champ Johnny G. on their roster.  KR won his titles and so they put him out to pasture.   I won't doubt his ability to win overalls again,  but a championship seems far fetched. That said, Randy Hawkins is a smart guy - so there's gotta be some upside to him. 

4
McG194
Posts
4109
Joined
9/7/2017
Location
Palm Coast, FL US
10/15/2024 11:01am

Yamaha and Honda both have a history with 350's so it just seems too logical that they would make one now. 

The company really missing the boat is Suzuki. Those big bore kits from Athena have an 85 mm bore and a RMZ450 has a stroke of 62.1 mm. With a little bit of parts bin engineering they could build an engine with 352.39 cc's. That and an electric starter could take Suzuki from the least popular moto/off road bike to one of the hottest sellers out there. 

5
soggy
Posts
8423
Joined
12/3/2018
Location
UT US
10/15/2024 12:32pm
McG194 wrote:
Yamaha and Honda both have a history with 350's so it just seems too logical that they would make one now. The company really missing the boat...

Yamaha and Honda both have a history with 350's so it just seems too logical that they would make one now. 

The company really missing the boat is Suzuki. Those big bore kits from Athena have an 85 mm bore and a RMZ450 has a stroke of 62.1 mm. With a little bit of parts bin engineering they could build an engine with 352.39 cc's. That and an electric starter could take Suzuki from the least popular moto/off road bike to one of the hottest sellers out there. 

They aren’t making one. 

McG194
Posts
4109
Joined
9/7/2017
Location
Palm Coast, FL US
10/15/2024 12:45pm
McG194 wrote:
Yamaha and Honda both have a history with 350's so it just seems too logical that they would make one now. The company really missing the boat...

Yamaha and Honda both have a history with 350's so it just seems too logical that they would make one now. 

The company really missing the boat is Suzuki. Those big bore kits from Athena have an 85 mm bore and a RMZ450 has a stroke of 62.1 mm. With a little bit of parts bin engineering they could build an engine with 352.39 cc's. That and an electric starter could take Suzuki from the least popular moto/off road bike to one of the hottest sellers out there. 

soggy wrote:

They aren’t making one. 

Hence me saying that they are missing the boat. Was I not clear? 

1
1
Gravel
Posts
1773
Joined
2/22/2014
Location
Ridgecrest, CA US
10/16/2024 5:49am

Yamaha developed the first 250f in plain sight, it looked so similar to the 400f that nobody noticed. I’m a nobody who knows nothing about what Yamaha is doing, but if they were working on a 350, I’d be watching for a really torquey, fast “YZ250F” at the practice tracks.

6
soggy
Posts
8423
Joined
12/3/2018
Location
UT US
10/16/2024 9:18am
McG194 wrote:

Hence me saying that they are missing the boat. Was I not clear? 

I don’t mean to get into semantics but what you actually said was Suzuki is the one missing the boat. And that Yamaha and Honda have made them in the past so it seems logical they would make one. 

Timo
Posts
1392
Joined
1/9/2021
Location
Wichita, KS US
10/16/2024 9:37am

Put fuel injection on the original 400 motor and call it a day Wink That was a great f-cking engine!

I had a wr400f back in the day and now have 2 yz450fx's. The newer platform is way better and the newer engine is so much better with the app's ability to tune it. Anyone saying the new 450 is too much in the woods hasn't played with the power tuning app enough. I get the fueling figured out and leave it alone, then just use timing to adjust the power characteristics. 

2
Timo
Posts
1392
Joined
1/9/2021
Location
Wichita, KS US
10/16/2024 9:40am
Kanewel433 wrote:
It feels like if Yamaha had a 350f developed and waiting in the wings, they would be stupid not to launch it right now while the...

It feels like if Yamaha had a 350f developed and waiting in the wings, they would be stupid not to launch it right now while the KTM group is struggling financially and reducing their racing platform.   While sure, Yamaha may sell less of their own 250's or 450's, the sales from converts buying a Yz350f would certainly offset those losses.   

As for Kailub, I don't think KTM needs him back.  They have the reigning Champ Ben Kelley,  and the current champ Johnny G. on their roster.  KR won his titles and so they put him out to pasture.   I won't doubt his ability to win overalls again,  but a championship seems far fetched. That said, Randy Hawkins is a smart guy - so there's gotta be some upside to him. 

KTM may be struggling because they make too many models that compete with each other...

5
tackomoto
Posts
38
Joined
1/16/2019
Location
Charleston, WV US
10/16/2024 11:00am

Put fuel injection on the original 400 motor and call it a day Wink That was a great f-cking engine!

Timo wrote:
I had a wr400f back in the day and now have 2 yz450fx's. The newer platform is way better and the newer engine is so much...

I had a wr400f back in the day and now have 2 yz450fx's. The newer platform is way better and the newer engine is so much better with the app's ability to tune it. Anyone saying the new 450 is too much in the woods hasn't played with the power tuning app enough. I get the fueling figured out and leave it alone, then just use timing to adjust the power characteristics. 

I’ve been curious on the new YZ450FX, but was worried it would be way too much bike for harescrambles and gncc. Does it feel heavy when weaving between trees at lower speeds?

1
McG194
Posts
4109
Joined
9/7/2017
Location
Palm Coast, FL US
10/16/2024 2:26pm
McG194 wrote:

Hence me saying that they are missing the boat. Was I not clear? 

soggy wrote:
I don’t mean to get into semantics but what you actually said was Suzuki is the one missing the boat. And that Yamaha and Honda have...

I don’t mean to get into semantics but what you actually said was Suzuki is the one missing the boat. And that Yamaha and Honda have made them in the past so it seems logical they would make one. 

The meaning of what I posted was that Yamaha and Honda were familiar with that displacement so they would be natural fits. 

The part about Suzuki was a complete other thought. I was just spitballing as if I was tasked with rejuvenating Suzuki's off-road program. If you think about it no other move could make Suzuki as relevant. If they made an electric start 2026 RMZ it would be met with derision as they are finally catching up to 10 years ago. The only way for them to knock it out of the park would be a displacement or type (300cc 2 stroke) that no other Japanese bike had or an electric bike. 

The only one that will do it is Yamaha.

 

Flatliner
Posts
4066
Joined
11/3/2009
Location
CA
10/16/2024 3:50pm
z0py wrote:
I have my 23' FC 350 pretty dialed at the moment. Spring forks, bladder in the rear, vented air box cover. For me, it's the best...

I have my 23' FC 350 pretty dialed at the moment. Spring forks, bladder in the rear, vented air box cover. For me, it's the best bike I've ever ridden.

Years ago, I used to moto on a 2005 YZ 250. I'm not sure if I'm being biased over time but that chassis and suspension was so damn good. I'd jump ship in a heartbeat to a YZ 350f to potentially get that chassis feel back.  

You're not.  That was a great platform made better when they went to sss suspension.

 

Yamaha developed and tested a 150f to go against the honda, then shelved it.  Could do the same with a 350.

z0py
Posts
13
Joined
8/30/2024
Location
Menifee, CA US
10/16/2024 5:06pm
z0py wrote:
I have my 23' FC 350 pretty dialed at the moment. Spring forks, bladder in the rear, vented air box cover. For me, it's the best...

I have my 23' FC 350 pretty dialed at the moment. Spring forks, bladder in the rear, vented air box cover. For me, it's the best bike I've ever ridden.

Years ago, I used to moto on a 2005 YZ 250. I'm not sure if I'm being biased over time but that chassis and suspension was so damn good. I'd jump ship in a heartbeat to a YZ 350f to potentially get that chassis feel back.  

Flatliner wrote:
You're not.  That was a great platform made better when they went to sss suspension. Yamaha developed and tested a 150f to go against the honda, then...

You're not.  That was a great platform made better when they went to sss suspension.

 

Yamaha developed and tested a 150f to go against the honda, then shelved it.  Could do the same with a 350.

Thats something I don't think about much but a modern 150 is a bit of a hole as well. 

tackomoto
Posts
38
Joined
1/16/2019
Location
Charleston, WV US
10/20/2024 12:49pm
ML512 wrote:
I dropped the Russell coming back to GNCC on a Yamaha nugget last week. I've heard about it for a bit now but everything I've been...

I dropped the Russell coming back to GNCC on a Yamaha nugget last week. I've heard about it for a bit now but everything I've been told is YZ250F in XC1.

ML…can you link me the video/podcast where you spoke on this? Would love a listen. 

egag
Posts
1
Joined
3/28/2025
Location
Montague, NJ US
3/28/2025 6:07am
Toby259 wrote:
Didn't KR557 race a KTM150 some years ago at the Ironman GNCC after he already won the championship on the 350 in XC1 class?  Grant Davis...

Didn't KR557 race a KTM150 some years ago at the Ironman GNCC after he already won the championship on the 350 in XC1 class?  Grant Davis won an overall this year in the XC2 class on a 250. I am not familiar with all the rules but he could maybe just ride a modified YZ250F in the XC1 class. I mean look at Deegan's lap times on that bike, I don't think the added engine size is a huge advantage anymore. I don't know how some of these XC1 guys race a 450 in the woods at that pace for 3 hours!  (Stu, Grant, RickyR, Strang, JordanA, etc.)

A little late to this thread, but I wanted to flex that I used to beat Grant Davis on the super-minis in ECEA. Sure he was 2 years younger than me, sure that completely invalidates any actual bragging rights, but I CAN technically say that I beat the current GNCC points leader / XC-2 Champ straight up lol

3
4

Post a reply to: Kailub Russell helping Yamaha develop a 350?

The Latest