The AMA is at it again, 130+ B Riders bumped to A

[quote="Huckster":3n3ao1ld]Its about time.[/quote:3n3ao1ld]

No, it's about fucking time....

MR

[quote:3qj9rok4]Here are a couple of scenarios you can work out:
1. A rider turns intermediate, races his first year and ends up 20th at Mammoth. Never raced any other nationals until 2007. 2007 was his first year racing Nationals and had some good and not so good finishes, never winning one. Do we keep him in the B class for experience or move him up to A just because his "average" is above the line?
2. This rider is an excellent rider, has raced Nationals for most of his life. He understands the new rule and decides to not finish well at a few of the races so his 'AVERAGE" is below the move up numbers. He gets to ride B and rider 1. has to move up?

This is an interesting issue, I agree that riders who have been in the same class for years and have sandbagged the class should have to change up. But is there going to be "exceptions" to the rules based on intelligent decisions and valid information? Or is it an "as usual" blatant blanket that is going to cover everybody?

The "B" class is tough and the teams are looking at riders to gain experience and learn to "Win" in this class. It has produced some fairly good riders (everyone knows who they are). Change is good and properly executed change is better. Lets hope someone can make the correct decisions based on individual riders. their careers may be a stake.
Alan[/quote:3qj9rok4]

the answer is yes there should be exceptions. thats why there is a revised appeal process.

an quite frankly "kids" making "6 figures" is a sad comment about our "amatuer" sports. It's no wonder its so "f"d up.

riders that purposely hold back to win later, I have seen it for 20 years, they usually don't make it far. Simply because that is cheating, and usually (my opinion here) CHEATERS usually have other flaws in thier charactor and don't stand up well when it's time to do what has to be done to be a real pro. People think that "winning " at LL automatically makes you a pro and a team. Well it may help a shit load, but it's no guarentee.

Sandbaggers never fair well when the going gets tough, simply because that is why we call them baggers, they choose the easy way.

Seen those types so many times its not funny. You can see the ones who shine, they do the work, and are never afraid of competition.

Based on the results on the AMA website, and the rules as written, here is a list of the riders with an RPV higher than 15.

SCOTT A MCCONNELL 193 8 24.125
STANLEY R POULSEN 183 8 22.875
RYAN MILLAR 137 6 22.83333333
AARON WHITE 136 6 22.66666667
LOWELL J SPANGLER 1164 52 22.38461538
BRUCE A SYLVESTER 200 9 22.22222222
CHASE J BURDETTE 222 10 22.2
KYLE R CORMAN 1084 50 21.68
MATT J SHAPAKA 234 11 21.27272727
BLAKE R WICKERHAM 188 9 20.88888889
[b:26fr3g0r]JUSTIN R WEEKS 414 20 20.7[/b:26fr3g0r]
JOEL ADAMS 122 6 20.33333333
LES SMITH 749 37 20.24324324
DEREK ROGERS 504 25 20.16
GAVIN FAITH 282 14 20.14285714
DANIEL AULSEYBROOK 340 17 20
ANDY MYERS 160 8 20
BROC D PETERSON 659 33 19.96969697
DYLAN SLUSSER 848 43 19.72093023
WESLEY N MCCOY 137 7 19.57142857
TYLER A RIEHL 195 10 19.5
CHRIS J AKEY 117 6 19.5
ERIC L HUGHES 213 11 19.36363636
DEREK J HALL 232 12 19.33333333
COREY R THOMAS 386 20 19.3
DAVID E BACON 983 51 19.2745098
JEFF J LANIEU 192 10 19.2
EDDIE F ANEWALT 285 15 19
DEVON L ADAIR 209 11 19
W TOM BRAGG 152 8 19
JEFF CLARK 114 6 19
BROC J SCHMELYUN 359 19 18.89473684
JASON W ERDMANN 112 6 18.66666667
[b:26fr3g0r]KYLE J REGAL 205 11 18.63636364[/b:26fr3g0r]
FRED FREESE 149 8 18.625
MICHAEL P PRITCHETT 149 8 18.625
VINCE A FRIESE 576 31 18.58064516
JOSHUA A THOMAS 609 33 18.45454545
KYLE J RYMAN 110 6 18.33333333
JEREMIAH S STEWART 163 9 18.11111111
ALEX V HINDLE 414 23 18
MALCOLM STEWART 180 10 18
TYLER J SANDERSON 467 26 17.96153846
JASON E GALBRAITH 107 6 17.83333333
HUNTER HEWITT 302 17 17.76470588
MANDELL BURNETTE 798 45 17.73333333
ANDREW G KING 230 13 17.69230769
ZACH LARSON 228 13 17.53846154
[b:26fr3g0r]CODY C ROBBINS 140 8 17.5[/b:26fr3g0r]
CAMERON C DOWELL 105 6 17.5
RICK ALBEE 157 9 17.44444444
RUSSELL MYERS 157 9 17.44444444
CHRISTOPHER L DAMM 209 12 17.41666667
BRIAN J BIDDLE 243 14 17.35714286
TODD A STREIT 104 6 17.33333333
LUKAS A KATERS 138 8 17.25
SHAWN M KLINE 412 24 17.16666667
GARRETT J KENNEDY 171 10 17.1
[b:26fr3g0r]JUSTIN E COLEY 256 15 17.06666667[/b:26fr3g0r]
KYLE L WOLFE 238 14 17
JORDAN H OXLEY 136 8 17
ADAM T JOSEPH 102 6 17
ERIK R BOYLE 441 26 16.96153846
JASON D BROWN 322 19 16.94736842
JOHN KERNAN 237 14 16.92857143
NICO A IZZI 135 8 16.875
JOSHUA HUERTA 135 8 16.875
CORY VANDAL 605 36 16.80555556
JUSTIN W DICKEY 151 9 16.77777778
SCOTT CARROLL 201 12 16.75
TRAVIS A BAKER 133 8 16.625
GARY S RADFORD 731 44 16.61363636
ERIC J ESPE 249 15 16.6
MIKE S WEESE 166 10 16.6
TAYLOR W DAVIS 381 23 16.56521739
CURTIS J BAKER 281 17 16.52941176
CODY LACKORE 595 36 16.52777778
[b:26fr3g0r]TYE SIMMONDS 314 19 16.52631579[/b:26fr3g0r]
STORM JOHNSON 231 14 16.5
GARY M VANDERVLIET 165 10 16.5
ALAN JOHNSON 132 8 16.5
ZACHARY R MARTINO 345 21 16.42857143
STEVE W MASON 262 16 16.375
TYLER JENSEN 131 8 16.375
BEN E LAMAY 245 15 16.33333333
BRIAN J PERREAULT 98 6 16.33333333
OSCAR DIAZ 98 6 16.33333333
MICHAEL A DAVIS 130 8 16.25
BLAKE SCHILLING 372 23 16.17391304
LEVI W MCMAINS 743 46 16.15217391
DUSTIN M HARGUTH 1017 63 16.14285714
CHRIS W TRAINA 113 7 16.14285714
[b:26fr3g0r]SUNNY M DRAKE 387 24 16.125[/b:26fr3g0r]
NICHOLAS D SCHMIDT 129 8 16.125
RYAN H SCHAFER 161 10 16.1
LOUIS M GIOMBONI 402 25 16.08
STEVEN J MAGES 273 17 16.05882353
BRANT S HANSHAW 624 39 16
[b:26fr3g0r]TEVIN N TAPIA 272 17 16[/b:26fr3g0r]
JASON R MARAUGHA 176 11 16
COLE A JACKSON 144 9 16
DAVID MATHENY 96 6 16
PAUL DYCK 96 6 16
TYLER HORNE 367 23 15.95652174
TRAVIS R DAUM 223 14 15.92857143
JACOB G ROWLAND 174 11 15.81818182
COREY A WILSON 174 11 15.81818182
MIKE CLARK 221 14 15.78571429
MATT BABBITT 221 14 15.78571429
PAUL LEMERE 268 17 15.76470588
DANIEL LEWIS 189 12 15.75
MARTIN MUNDO 126 8 15.75
SHEA C CORZATT 110 7 15.71428571
DAN R POHL 141 9 15.66666667
BRAD A MANSINNE 94 6 15.66666667
JAKE ANSTETT 266 17 15.64705882
BRANDEN C MILLER 297 19 15.63157895
STEVEN M PAGE 125 8 15.625
SHELBY J LANDIS 156 10 15.6
TONY F BLOOD 109 7 15.57142857
HOUSTON J WIREMAN 109 7 15.57142857
ZACH J COONS 171 11 15.54545455
CHRIS FISHER 373 24 15.54166667
PADEN M FEAGANS 636 41 15.51219512
ERIC J MONTREUIL 324 21 15.42857143
JESSE WUNDERLICH 216 14 15.42857143
AARON BENSON 108 7 15.42857143
JEREMY B DOMINGUE 200 13 15.38461538
GAVIN D KADLEC 323 21 15.38095238
[b:26fr3g0r]JOHNNY WASCO 369 24 15.375[/b:26fr3g0r]
JUSTIN R FREUND 215 14 15.35714286
KYLE W BIGGINS 138 9 15.33333333
RANDALL B WILCOX 107 7 15.28571429
MAX D DISSE 488 32 15.25
AUSTIN T SIMMONS 228 15 15.2
STANLEY E SPENCER 152 10 15.2
DAVID W MABEE 91 6 15.16666667
ADAM STOKES 106 7 15.14285714
MARK RINALDI 272 18 15.11111111
STEPHEN HOOVER 136 9 15.11111111
JOSHUA R JACKSON 287 19 15.10526316
JED W SEEMAN 331 22 15.04545455
TAYLOR BARNHART 300 20 15
CARLO GAGLIARDO 150 10 15

[quote="SlowOldGuy":jraybbih]Based on the results on the AMA website, and the rules as written, here is a list of the riders with an RPV higher than 15.[/quote:jraybbih]

The advancement number is 11.5 for 2007, so does your reference to "RPV 15" indicate something?

I am still learning " title="Smile">

Jimi j

[quote="Highsider":123jme1k][quote="SlowOldGuy":123jme1k]Based on the results on the AMA website, and the rules as written, here is a list of the riders with an RPV higher than 15.[/quote:123jme1k]

The advancement number is 11.5 for 2007, so does your reference to "RPV 15" indicate something?

I am still learning " title="Smile">

Jimi j[/quote:123jme1k]B to A is 15. C is 11.5

The B to A transfer gets pretty fuzzy when certaian non districts and districts dont process the points accumalated. It's a shame when the cherry pickers with more than enough points dont move up. Back in the day and I'm not sure how it is now but C class riders had green plates, B class had yellow plates and A riders had either black or white plates. Easy to see who belongs where with the number they had been given. With this structure it was easier to diferentiate between the classes and easier to keep track of points earned. I've been away from the Va. and Md. districts for quite some time but between those 2 states it was a well oiled machine that kept everything honest. JMO

ALL of these kids should be in the A Class. What is the point in racing B when they are can catch up to 3rd in the pro class from the 2nd gate, and could probably win the pro class if they entered it. You know how bad it is when you look at Ryan dungey, he went straight from the B class to factory suzuki and to winning his 1st ever SX race. Thats a real intermediate isnt it? hahah the B class is a joke with all these kids just hangin around for a championship year after year. I hope they all get bumped.

There is a kid out here in SoCal who was top 3 of the Novice class at Loretta's two years ago. He was moved to Intermediate last year and raced Loretta's. Yesterday he was racing the A/Pro classes at the Loretta's area qualifier at Perris Raceway. The kid finished really well. I didn't see his name on the list of B riders who got bumped to A. I think he chose to move up himself. And he rode well. Congrats to him! His name is Joey Rossi.

[quote="Twizzler":hq063noe] I think he chose to move up himself.[/quote:hq063noe]

Yes he did.

Joey's a super cool kid, glad he did well yesterday.

People (sponsors) should be looking at kids like Joey that what to go all the way and are not happy until they make the big show. Personally I thought that's what it was all about.......not hanging in the novice class collecting trophy's.

HA~! SEE I knew some one out there would take the time to do that..... funny how rules like what AMA has will always be scrutinized by the riders and hell even the work would be done by a rider....... now lets see how accurate the results of this list are and if there will be an B-A list officially.

interesting

They did this in TX a few years ago. My son Ronny was moved up. It wasn't overturned on appeal. He sucked it up and race A. I think the CA ruling should remain. If Ama gives in on the appeal, it will be really hard to understand. You can't change the rules just because you don't like them.

The National Advancement System isn't a new rule - there were suppose to be move-ups in 2007 based on 2006 points. I think riders that have "read" and "understood" the rules made the move. I know several riders feel they aren't ready to advance because they were injured during the year, but they accrued enough advancement points at events during the year when they were not injured.

IMO there just isn't any excuse for not being aware of the rules and there really isn't any excuse for not enforcing the rules that are in place. If anything, you have penalized riders that made the move because they are going by the rules when you have given "exemptions" for riders that feel they aren't ready, or riders that were injured, or riders that didn't know there was an advancement system in place.

There shouldn't be any controversy over any of this - it's not a new rule - it's been in place now for 2 years ... refer back to the 2007 rulebook, and it was just fine tuned for 2008. The rider list for C to B is far bigger than the B to A list ... that's another whole can of worms.

Andy bumped to A in June of 07' I believe. They still have him on that list above. We recieved a letter from our district (14) In January congratulating him on being moved to The A class. It was hand typed and all. The funny part was he had raced A for 3/4 of the summer.

I personally think the system will be a good thing. The "A" class gates in Michigan are so small compared to the "B" class. It will be nice to have some kids on the gate to race this season.

if an injury can be "came back from 100%" we usually in the past did NOT allow a rider to drop a class, since it only takes that rider usually a few months to be back to speed. When they say " i need to ride with the slower guys to get practiced up", the answer is "go practice". NOt go win in a lower class while you get practiced up.\

on the road again is absolutely correct, exemption should only happen in extreme conditions. one of the reasons i was so adament about that cozad deal last year. Also the reason we submitted rule changes which specifically affected and changed the appeal process.

We only have once a year to change rules and it most of the time is reactionary since we can't always figure out what needs done before it happens...... It is why it has taken 8 years for this to finally get to this point. Hopefully we will get an B=A list from ama soon. LOL or maybe we should send in the "post board" version?

I never got advanced from C to B or B to A, can I drop back to C?













j/k

Just hearing from some local parents and from my kids, there are alot more michigan riders that were bumped not on the list above.

[quote="DL":e76jhnr6]The list is flawed..... where did it come from? It's missing many of the CA kids too. Anybody heard anymore about the AMA putting off the bumping and leaving things alone?[/quote:e76jhnr6]


I think that list is just some quick math from someone on the board. As far as I know it is already being implemented. D-14 has already sent out their letters.

When they started this in TX, they took all races, not just AMA. So, NMA ponca qualifiers counted as well as races out of district. Ronny was on American Honda's, HHR race team. Didn't change a thing.

[quote="DL":39vyidyx]Anybody heard anymore about the AMA putting off the bumping and leaving things alone?[/quote:39vyidyx]

A rule is a rule. Are you implying of not following the rules??

i doubt that this will be ignored. Since it's in the AMA rule book, it will be hard for them to ignore or not implement the rules. Since if that happened, then I suppose all the rules could be ignored. That just won't happen. I will try to get an official list.

Why not ignore the C to B list as well? Hell, just run whatever class you want.
Rules...We don't need no stinking rules!

[quote="SIMX":24tje7ep]Why not ignore the C to B list as well? Hell, just run whatever class you want.
Rules...We don't need no stinking rules![/quote:24tje7ep]
Run what ya brung!

"doubt that this will be ignored. Since it's in the AMA rule book, it will be hard for them to ignore or not implement the rules. Since if that happened, then I suppose all the rules could be ignored. That just won't happen".

First, this is not a direct attack on you but I must comment on this statement.
How many times has the AMA ignored the rules, changed the rules (depending on the riders status) or decided to make a new rule on the spot?
How long has the AMA run the show?
How long can it possibly take to get a valid program together for the amateurs and subsequently the professionals?
There have been many "rules" that were changed on the spot. There are rules that need changing years ago and have not been addressed.
If a rule is a rule then the AMA should not continue to print the statement "under the discretion of the AMA".
Just one persons point of view.

a true racer wants to the best as fast as possible. if you or your kid don not want that you should leave the sport and go play travel team bb. the truth hurts...yup.

deff some riders on that list should be moved up. but there are several riders on that list, not gunna give any names but i know personaly that will not be moved up going into texas including some of those heavy hitters in the B class people r refering to. yes there are some kids that pointed out but at the age of to young under 16 i believe there points does not matter if they race the 07 season as a 15 yr old or younger. as a 16 yr old there points will count. from my understanding i could be wrong tho. but anyhow known for a fact many of these riders will reamain in the B class for the 08 season, hate to break some of your celebration dances but it happens. yes everyone will have to race everyone eventualy in the pros. but not as a 14-15 yr old against 18-25 yr olds in the A n pro classes. hate to say it but the B class will always remain a B class, it wont be turned into a novice class this year. what everyone has to remember that racing nowa days is diff then back in the day. kids start out racing at alot younger age and become very fast extremly quickly. meaning by the time they get off minis and r on big bikes they r already to compete at the A level. moving kids up to early can hurt there possible carreers and possibly hurt themself not being mature enough yet to be in that type of racing. alot of people think its unfair, and to those that do only local races is unfair if a top rider around the country was to show up. but how often do you see those riders? national racing is a far cry from local racing, those of you that are just makin the transition over to the national racing can see that. it is not for the weak thats for sure. these riders are training hard to get where there at and it only means for others to train harder to keep up with the program. there are many diff subjects that are iffy in the ama racing and sand baggin is deff top choice. heres another thing... about that schoolboy 14-16 4 stroke. and now they say no A riders can race that class at nationals. since when is 14-16 based on a skill level? always used to be based on a age level? now that a young rider that has been promoted to A class all of a sudden cant even race in his own age division?? yeah he may be more advanced but since when does that have any affect on his age? if u ask me things need to be thought thru alot more. some of you might jump on me about this post but this is a message board and its for opinions. for those that are lookin for the easy way out, i dont think its going to happen yet this season. but you never know i guess we will all find out what goes down in texas.

G-Man says there is no reason to bump people up!

[quote:2c3zxoip][quote="Mxrider111":2c3zxoip]deff some riders on that list should be moved up. but there are several riders on that list, not gunna give any names but i know personaly that will not be moved up going into texas including some of those heavy hitters in the B class people r refering to. yes there are some kids that pointed out but at the age of to young under 16 i believe there points does not matter if they race the 07 season as a 15 yr old or younger. as a 16 yr old there points will count. from my understanding i could be wrong tho. but anyhow known for a fact many of these riders will reamain in the B class for the 08 season, hate to break some of your celebration dances but it happens. yes everyone will have to race everyone eventualy in the pros. but not as a 14-15 yr old against 18-25 yr olds in the A n pro classes. hate to say it but the B class will always remain a B class, it wont be turned into a novice class this year. what everyone has to remember that racing nowa days is diff then back in the day. kids start out racing at alot younger age and become very fast extremly quickly. meaning by the time they get off minis and r on big bikes they r already to compete at the A level. moving kids up to early can hurt there possible carreers and possibly hurt themself not being mature enough yet to be in that type of racing. alot of people think its unfair, and to those that do only local races is unfair if a top rider around the country was to show up. but how often do you see those riders? national racing is a far cry from local racing, those of you that are just makin the transition over to the national racing can see that. it is not for the weak thats for sure. these riders are training hard to get where there at and it only means for others to train harder to keep up with the program. there are many diff subjects that are iffy in the ama racing and sand baggin is deff top choice. heres another thing... about that schoolboy 14-16 4 stroke. and now they say no A riders can race that class at nationals. since when is 14-16 based on a skill level? always used to be based on a age level? now that a young rider that has been promoted to A class all of a sudden cant even race in his own age division?? yeah he may be more advanced but since when does that have any affect on his age? if u ask me things need to be thought thru alot more. some of you might jump on me about this post but this is a message board and its for opinions. for those that are lookin for the easy way out, i dont think its going to happen yet this season. but you never know i guess we will all find out what goes down in texas.[/quote:2c3zxoip][/quote:2c3zxoip]






I tried three times to read this with no luck.

[quote="BobbyM":1awvkkmf]a true racer wants to the best as fast as possible. if you or your kid don not want that you should leave the sport and go play travel team bb. the truth hurts...yup.[/quote:1awvkkmf]Not That Don Or his son need anyone to defend them, but I am pretty sure from Don's last post that he said he hopes the rule is inforced.