Why aren't the GP cheerleaders talking up "Big Ken"???

5/24/2010 12:09pm
mop wrote:
Why is it being brought up that he was handicapped with a "stock 450", then in the same breath singing the praises of Alessi's 350 being...
Why is it being brought up that he was handicapped with a "stock 450", then in the same breath singing the praises of Alessi's 350 being more than enough to win??
GuyB wrote:
No one said that the 350 is stock... Besides, look at how close the lap times are between the 250 and 450 classes. It'll be interesting...
No one said that the 350 is stock...

Besides, look at how close the lap times are between the 250 and 450 classes. It'll be interesting to see how much the 350 tips the scales at. Remember, it's e-start.
Wait the 350 has electric start?
5/24/2010 12:13pm
Titan1 wrote:
Oh...never mind. I just looked at the results...

if you compare a Factory KTM 350 to a stock yz450 then ur DUMB!!!
hoppsan
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5/24/2010 12:16pm Edited Date/Time 5/24/2010 12:25pm
newmann wrote:
Why is it the "Euro's" that come here and ride seem to do better than the Americans that go over there?
Titan1 wrote:
Because no top American riders (and since Ken is 5th in points in the GP's I'd say he's a top rider) go there to race, where...
Because no top American riders (and since Ken is 5th in points in the GP's I'd say he's a top rider) go there to race, where the top GP riders come here.

Send Reed, or Alessi, or Townley or Millsaps, or Short or Dungey over to a GP and they'd do very well.
Reed and Townley came from the GP's to the AMA Nats (and SX). Just being a bit of a smart-ass and pointing that out, I know people forget. One should already know that they would do well in the GP's, and frankly you'd have to be insane to think that any top rider from any of the two series would suddenly just suck because they switched to the other series, that doesn't make much sense.

Anyway, as PaleBlue mentioned, I don't see how anyone could bag on the American riders who's been over to the GPs and raced, in general those deals have worked out pretty well as far as I can recall. The GP's and the AMA Nats may differ a bit here and there, but a rider with talent and determination is a rider with talent and determination no matter where he (or she) rides and comes from. People adapt, a winner will win, or at least challenge for it.

Edit: Also, Ken is a pretty big guy and will suffer more than others (I would guess) at a slight loss of power. Are you, mop, suggesting that the teams running 450's (which is every team except for KTM, obviously, and only a couple of KTM riders at that) should just leave the bikes as is, engine-wise?

Anyway, I'm glad Ken raced, I wish he would have done better (for the sake of not having this argument appear, I suppose) but as people say, he did what you sort of would have expected I guess.
mop
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5/24/2010 12:32pm
I'm just saying that the 350 is bringing up the issue that 450 is too much power, yet some people are saying that a stock 450 is now not competitive enough in the national class.

The Shop

newmann
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5/24/2010 12:51pm
Not bagging on anyone from the US making the trip across the pond. Actually applaud and respect what they are doing. Does anyone remember Jeff Dement? Fastest thing we had over here on a mini. Mid 90's after moving up to the big bikes he headed over to Europe and spent quite a few years over there. Had some good rides, but never set the world on fire. He stuck it out and made a good career out of it though. How about Mike Brown? Went over and had some good rides but it just didn't work out. When he returned to the US, his speed had picked up quite a bit. Remember watching him kill the corners in SX after returning. He went on to win a championship here after coming back didn't he? And who could forget Ryno. One bad ass guy on or off the bike. Europe didn't work out for him either. He was the one I thought would be a world beater if there ever was one. After coming home he was in contention for the 125 championship on a 125cc 2 stroke up against a bunch of 250Fs. That's something everyone here at Vital thinks couldn't be done by anyone other than Bubba. So, some of those guys who's careers had come to a down turn here in the states spent a little time overseas and came home to do quite well. I think that says something about the level of competition over there, not disrespecting anyone.
DC
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5/24/2010 1:01pm
Langston has been here for a decade; Reed's been here since 2002. Both spent maybe two years on the GP tour, so they are way more "American" than "European" which is why it should be left at "Australian" and "South African."

DC
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Titan1
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5/24/2010 1:03pm
newmann wrote:
Why is it the "Euro's" that come here and ride seem to do better than the Americans that go over there?
Titan1 wrote:
Because no top American riders (and since Ken is 5th in points in the GP's I'd say he's a top rider) go there to race, where...
Because no top American riders (and since Ken is 5th in points in the GP's I'd say he's a top rider) go there to race, where the top GP riders come here.

Send Reed, or Alessi, or Townley or Millsaps, or Short or Dungey over to a GP and they'd do very well.
hoppsan wrote:
Reed and Townley came from the GP's to the AMA Nats (and SX). Just being a bit of a smart-ass and pointing that out, I know...
Reed and Townley came from the GP's to the AMA Nats (and SX). Just being a bit of a smart-ass and pointing that out, I know people forget. One should already know that they would do well in the GP's, and frankly you'd have to be insane to think that any top rider from any of the two series would suddenly just suck because they switched to the other series, that doesn't make much sense.

Anyway, as PaleBlue mentioned, I don't see how anyone could bag on the American riders who's been over to the GPs and raced, in general those deals have worked out pretty well as far as I can recall. The GP's and the AMA Nats may differ a bit here and there, but a rider with talent and determination is a rider with talent and determination no matter where he (or she) rides and comes from. People adapt, a winner will win, or at least challenge for it.

Edit: Also, Ken is a pretty big guy and will suffer more than others (I would guess) at a slight loss of power. Are you, mop, suggesting that the teams running 450's (which is every team except for KTM, obviously, and only a couple of KTM riders at that) should just leave the bikes as is, engine-wise?

Anyway, I'm glad Ken raced, I wish he would have done better (for the sake of not having this argument appear, I suppose) but as people say, he did what you sort of would have expected I guess.
Reed and Townley came from the GP's to the AMA Nats....but they are now among the Top AMA riders (thereby making our series fast, deeper, better....the GP's loss is our gain). So being a top AMA rider, if they were to go to the GP's, they'd do great!.
500guy
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5/24/2010 1:04pm
Anyway, as PaleBlue mentioned, I don't see how anyone could bag on the American riders who's been over to the GPs and raced, in general those deals have worked out pretty well as far as I can recall. The GP's and the AMA Nats may differ a bit here and there, but a rider with talent and determination is a rider with talent and determination no matter where he (or she) rides and comes from. People adapt, a winner will win, or at least challenge for it.

Very well said
jamma10
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5/24/2010 3:00pm
Titan1 wrote:
Because no top American riders (and since Ken is 5th in points in the GP's I'd say he's a top rider) go there to race, where...
Because no top American riders (and since Ken is 5th in points in the GP's I'd say he's a top rider) go there to race, where the top GP riders come here.

Send Reed, or Alessi, or Townley or Millsaps, or Short or Dungey over to a GP and they'd do very well.
hoppsan wrote:
Reed and Townley came from the GP's to the AMA Nats (and SX). Just being a bit of a smart-ass and pointing that out, I know...
Reed and Townley came from the GP's to the AMA Nats (and SX). Just being a bit of a smart-ass and pointing that out, I know people forget. One should already know that they would do well in the GP's, and frankly you'd have to be insane to think that any top rider from any of the two series would suddenly just suck because they switched to the other series, that doesn't make much sense.

Anyway, as PaleBlue mentioned, I don't see how anyone could bag on the American riders who's been over to the GPs and raced, in general those deals have worked out pretty well as far as I can recall. The GP's and the AMA Nats may differ a bit here and there, but a rider with talent and determination is a rider with talent and determination no matter where he (or she) rides and comes from. People adapt, a winner will win, or at least challenge for it.

Edit: Also, Ken is a pretty big guy and will suffer more than others (I would guess) at a slight loss of power. Are you, mop, suggesting that the teams running 450's (which is every team except for KTM, obviously, and only a couple of KTM riders at that) should just leave the bikes as is, engine-wise?

Anyway, I'm glad Ken raced, I wish he would have done better (for the sake of not having this argument appear, I suppose) but as people say, he did what you sort of would have expected I guess.
Titan1 wrote:
Reed and Townley came from the GP's to the AMA Nats....but they are now among the Top AMA riders (thereby making our series fast, deeper, better....the...
Reed and Townley came from the GP's to the AMA Nats....but they are now among the Top AMA riders (thereby making our series fast, deeper, better....the GP's loss is our gain). So being a top AMA rider, if they were to go to the GP's, they'd do great!.
They did great when they were in GP's anyway... Reed came 2nd in the 250 class in 2001 and Townley won the MX2 World Championship before placing 3rd in the MX1 class the year after... I don't really see your point? After Townley came the likes of Cairoli, Christophe Pourcel, Rattray, Searle, Musquin, Roczen and now Herlings.

The way it works is simple. The GP's package and shape the rider before sending them off (with a smile and a wave) along the Motocross conveyor belt to AMA championship titles. Upon which, these previously unheard of superstars are declared American/AMA riders and infinitely better than any of 'our' lot. Smile
stillwelding
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5/24/2010 7:34pm
RACEGUY wrote:
With a stock bike, he probably wore it out hauling his huge personage around in the first moto. Pretty reasonable performance on an unknown track on...
With a stock bike, he probably wore it out hauling his huge personage around in the first moto.

Pretty reasonable performance on an unknown track on a showroom bike.
That's what I thought.
sharkey
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5/24/2010 9:15pm
Sunhouse wrote:
I remember a certain someone who back in 06 wasn´t too happy about riding on pretty much stock equipment either.... ;-) Desalle overcame it last year...
I remember a certain someone who back in 06 wasn´t too happy about riding on pretty much stock equipment either.... ;-)
Desalle overcame it last year, Ken couldn´t. Then again, it´s not uncommon for him to place like that in the GP´s either
desalle had easier time because washougal is hard and slick and a relativly stock bike would work fine there
RocketLab
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5/24/2010 9:24pm
Why all the shitbaggin towards a fellow mx rider from another country. Is this the kind of hosts we are? Give him props for racing in our series, on a strange track and bike and not doing too bad at all. It makes for a more interesting race to see some different faces come here.
pilotdude
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5/24/2010 9:28pm
I think it's pretty cool that he rode the national, and I don't remember hearing him boast beforehand about how he would do. I think he rode quite well, but NO ONE on this particular planet will convince me he rode a "showroom" stock bike. Uh uh.
mxnick
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5/24/2010 9:38pm
I think he rode well and did a great job. Consistent, fast, and just inside the top ten. What else did was expected from the big guy? He also put in 3rd fast lap in the second practice session....
5/24/2010 9:54pm
He looks a little awkward because he's big but he smoked our boy's on their home track. And his turn downs were sick coming off the table after the big drop. Just flicked flat.


Such a shame that he doesn't get commended on here. I hope he does well at GH.

He was fast and he put it up front.



Swede
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5/25/2010 5:09am Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 11:05pm
Big kudos to DeDycker for doing a thing like that these days! Kind of "Old-school" if you ask me and most of us would love to see more of that.
Mxxer
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5/25/2010 5:36am
Titan1 wrote:
Because no top American riders (and since Ken is 5th in points in the GP's I'd say he's a top rider) go there to race, where...
Because no top American riders (and since Ken is 5th in points in the GP's I'd say he's a top rider) go there to race, where the top GP riders come here.

Send Reed, or Alessi, or Townley or Millsaps, or Short or Dungey over to a GP and they'd do very well.
I could bag on you for your ignorance. But, you could be excused for not noticing that Mike Alessi went over to Europe several times to race...
robkinuk
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5/25/2010 5:55am
Mxxer wrote:
I could bag on you for your ignorance. But, you could be excused for not noticing that Mike Alessi went over to Europe several times to...
I could bag on you for your ignorance. But, you could be excused for not noticing that Mike Alessi went over to Europe several times to race...
Yes and did jack shit!, mostlyShocked
Sunhouse
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5/25/2010 5:57am
newmann wrote:
Not bagging on anyone from the US making the trip across the pond. Actually applaud and respect what they are doing. Does anyone remember Jeff Dement...
Not bagging on anyone from the US making the trip across the pond. Actually applaud and respect what they are doing. Does anyone remember Jeff Dement? Fastest thing we had over here on a mini. Mid 90's after moving up to the big bikes he headed over to Europe and spent quite a few years over there. Had some good rides, but never set the world on fire. He stuck it out and made a good career out of it though. How about Mike Brown? Went over and had some good rides but it just didn't work out. When he returned to the US, his speed had picked up quite a bit. Remember watching him kill the corners in SX after returning. He went on to win a championship here after coming back didn't he? And who could forget Ryno. One bad ass guy on or off the bike. Europe didn't work out for him either. He was the one I thought would be a world beater if there ever was one. After coming home he was in contention for the 125 championship on a 125cc 2 stroke up against a bunch of 250Fs. That's something everyone here at Vital thinks couldn't be done by anyone other than Bubba. So, some of those guys who's careers had come to a down turn here in the states spent a little time overseas and came home to do quite well. I think that says something about the level of competition over there, not disrespecting anyone.
I´ve noticed that too! But it also goes the other way around. Look at guys like Pichon who turned his career around when he returned to the GP´s after several years in America.

I remember an interview with John Dowd after Belgium won the 1997 MXDN´s on home turf. He said something like "we need to ride more natural and real motocross tracks too, like they have at the GP´s. Look at our motocross tracks, they are full of man made jumps, and look more like sx tracks than real motocross". Personally I´m a big fan of the American tracks, but I think this opinion has a point that can count for both American and GP racing. An American rider is usually a better technical rider than a GP rider due to Americans riding the most technically challenging tracks there are: supercross. We all know this is why French riders do well in America, AND in the GP´s. The pure strength and speed to endure longer motos and faster tracks where the turns are semingly the only way to make up time is - or at least was - a GP riders strongest side. Now, if someone goes across the pond to ride one of the two series - regardless which one it is - the tracks and way of riding are obviously going to be different. As a result, the rider will bring his strong side with him as a foundation, and eventually (if he stays there long enough) learn the way of riding from the series he moved to. That´s why I think Ryno, Brown, Dement, Pichon etc. came back to their "home series" as more complete riders. When they returned they had learned and mastered skills that few others in their own series had learned. That´s why I believe that Euro riders should try to go to the US to ride as much as they can - they will learn new skills that they can bring home to their national series and have an advantage coming up through the ranks. I know the ones who´ve done it here usually master technical sections or jumps WAY better than those who go to Spain or Italy. Maybe that would be a good idea for young American riders too, trying the Euro championship or a strong national championship like the Dutch or British - to get their feet wet before they are old enough for AMA pro racing, AND learn that you can be fast without having to scrub a 2 feet jump.
kardy
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5/25/2010 6:04am
He looks a little awkward because he's big but he smoked our boy's on their home track. And his turn downs were sick coming off the...
He looks a little awkward because he's big but he smoked our boy's on their home track. And his turn downs were sick coming off the table after the big drop. Just flicked flat.


Such a shame that he doesn't get commended on here. I hope he does well at GH.

He was fast and he put it up front.



He did get commended on here, several times.
Alex
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5/25/2010 6:52am
Yeah I reckon hes been getting pretty good respect for an american board anyway.
SMITH201
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5/25/2010 6:58am
I just gotta give credit to Ken on getting decent starts. Haulin that load on a 450 must have been like KDub last year on the 250! Smile
DrSweden
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5/25/2010 8:00am
Alex wrote:
Yeah I reckon hes been getting pretty good respect for an american board anyway.
I agree. As mentioned he also did what many expected, and also mentioned a fast guy in Europe is also fast in the US. Those with that urge to make the others series the "best" will of course always find excuses, arguments to support their agenda...

I honestly think Ken would have been a much faster riders if wasn't that tall.

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