Is it just me, or have spinal injuries skyrocketed as of late?

Hank_Thrill
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Edited Date/Time 1/24/2012 4:25pm
This is in response to Billy Laninovich's recent injury. Use to I thought I was just imagining the increased number of spinal injuries in the sport, but now I'm almost certain I'm not imagining things. Guys are breaking their necks and backs like they use to break wrists, back in the day.

In the 90's, it was Doug Henry, and Jimmy Button (maybe more that I'm unaware of). In the past ten years I've totally lost count. Not to mention the deaths (and deaths to come). David Baily even recently said it was a rare thing for riders to get injured back in the 80's, and if they did, they only missed a race or two, and were soon back in action. Now 50% of the cream of the crop can't even finish a series, and it sure as hell isn't due to lack of talent.

Sorry for the rant. I can already feel the heat I'm going to get for this. I realize this sport is dangerous. But how much longer will these high injury rates continue before affective safety measures are taken? I just care about the future of the sport, and the well-being of riders, amateur all the way to pros.

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themrtoad
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5/18/2010 12:18am
This is in response to Billy Laninovich's recent injury. Use to I thought I was just imagining the increased number of spinal injuries in the sport...
This is in response to Billy Laninovich's recent injury. Use to I thought I was just imagining the increased number of spinal injuries in the sport, but now I'm almost certain I'm not imagining things. Guys are breaking their necks and backs like they use to break wrists, back in the day.

In the 90's, it was Doug Henry, and Jimmy Button (maybe more that I'm unaware of). In the past ten years I've totally lost count. Not to mention the deaths (and deaths to come). David Baily even recently said it was a rare thing for riders to get injured back in the 80's, and if they did, they only missed a race or two, and were soon back in action. Now 50% of the cream of the crop can't even finish a series, and it sure as hell isn't due to lack of talent.

Sorry for the rant. I can already feel the heat I'm going to get for this. I realize this sport is dangerous. But how much longer will these high injury rates continue before affective safety measures are taken? I just care about the future of the sport, and the well-being of riders, amateur all the way to pros.

It's because of those "too big and powerful" 450 fourstrokes.
Old Mate
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5/18/2010 1:02am
Anything that can make the sport safer Hank should defiatly be added and yes both my boys have spent time on there back in hospital with spinal injuries, you know the problems, just whats the solutions, Racing is dangerous.
SMITH201
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5/18/2010 5:22am Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 10:53pm
Sure seems that way. One of my best freinds is now paralyzed from a crash at Budds Creek a few weeks ago Sad
CASH476
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5/18/2010 5:32am
themrtoad wrote:
It's because of those "too big and powerful" 450 fourstrokes.
Yeah that's it, I am sure that a mid 80"s 500 was much safer to ride than todays bikes. Wink

Just remind me, what were the track's like back then?

The Shop

Racer111
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5/18/2010 5:34am
This is in response to Billy Laninovich's recent injury. Use to I thought I was just imagining the increased number of spinal injuries in the sport...
This is in response to Billy Laninovich's recent injury. Use to I thought I was just imagining the increased number of spinal injuries in the sport, but now I'm almost certain I'm not imagining things. Guys are breaking their necks and backs like they use to break wrists, back in the day.

In the 90's, it was Doug Henry, and Jimmy Button (maybe more that I'm unaware of). In the past ten years I've totally lost count. Not to mention the deaths (and deaths to come). David Baily even recently said it was a rare thing for riders to get injured back in the 80's, and if they did, they only missed a race or two, and were soon back in action. Now 50% of the cream of the crop can't even finish a series, and it sure as hell isn't due to lack of talent.

Sorry for the rant. I can already feel the heat I'm going to get for this. I realize this sport is dangerous. But how much longer will these high injury rates continue before affective safety measures are taken? I just care about the future of the sport, and the well-being of riders, amateur all the way to pros.

themrtoad wrote:
It's because of those "too big and powerful" 450 fourstrokes.
It isn't because of 4 strokes!! Get a life!!

It is simply due to the evolution of speed in general. Over the years the sport has grown and so has the talent. The guys running 15-25 at a National these days would be running top 5 ten years ago. EVERYONE is just going faster! This would happen whether they were on 2-strokes OR 4-strokes!

The talent pool is just a lot deeper compared to 5 or 10 years ago. When you go down at the speeds they are running these days, injuries are going to be worse.

Combine the speed WITH the layouts of tracks these days, these kinds of injuries are going to happen.

MX558
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5/18/2010 5:36am
It's the tracks plain and simple.
bogdan912
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5/18/2010 5:47am
I'd blame better suspension before I blamed a four stroke motor.
txmxer
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5/18/2010 5:50am
The whole sport has changed. Big, bigger, bigger...fast and faster. Creates higher energy crashes which makes for more damage.

CamP has talked about suspension. Better suspension has allowed us to do dumber things. While the bikes are faster, you could still make a bike haul ass in the past...but, the suspension sucked and bikes would crater if you hammered them too hard.

Let's face it, even the safest jump has an exposure for a crash...getting landed on, overjumping...you name it. Great suspension is our undoing.


ebers
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5/18/2010 5:50am
I think its maybe a little bit of both, tracks and the evolution of bikes.

I was at a track today where a local expert was trying to clear an uphill double section with his 250 2-stroke and couldn't quite make it. Pulled into the pits and went back out on his 450 and nailed it no problem.
ky_savage
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5/18/2010 5:54am Edited Date/Time 5/18/2010 5:55am
MX558 wrote:
It's the tracks plain and simple.
I agree. Too groomed. Let it look like a detonated mine field and see the lap times increase.
MX558
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5/18/2010 6:09am
MX558 wrote:
It's the tracks plain and simple.
ky_savage wrote:
I agree. Too groomed. Let it look like a detonated mine field and see the lap times increase.
+1 on that and I don't think we need 130' jumps at amateur tracks
jbomx363
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5/18/2010 6:19am
No solutions posted yet. Because there is no solution. Go through the National tracks that have been around and what really has changed so much? I think I see more tabletops than there were before. I don't see as many open doubles/triples as there were either.

It's the nature of the beast (sport). Take away the internet and you'd know about the same amount of injuries as back in the day.
Shenzi
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5/18/2010 6:48am
It's a combination of increased speeds thanks to more efficient and performing bikes on much more dangerous tracks with obstacles that demand use of full throttle blasts and higher speeds to be cleared. Some stupid local track owners are adding stupid jumps like 85-ft triples and other stuff life that, making the track much more challenging, for reasons I don't comprehend. They build stupid jumps with almost no "fail" margins for the riders.

It is definitely a dangerous sport but it is very immature or selfish or douche to say "it's a dangerous sport, live with it". Modern motocross is killing and maiming people at a much higher rate than the previous decades. The race for bigger jumps, faster tracks and faster bikes is going to bite us back in the a$$ seriously at some point. Unless the makers and shakers of this sport take it more seriously.
what we do at pro level trickles down to the local and regional tracks and track owners.
flarider
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5/18/2010 6:49am
I have said for years that there is no reason riders do not wear spine protecters like required in road racing.
I read on here and elsewhere people saying they would wear all the protection available and they use that to justify wearing a Leatt-type device, but wear absolutely nothing to protect their lower spine.

flarider
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5/18/2010 6:51am
Shenzi wrote:
It's a combination of increased speeds thanks to more efficient and performing bikes on much more dangerous tracks with obstacles that demand use of full throttle...
It's a combination of increased speeds thanks to more efficient and performing bikes on much more dangerous tracks with obstacles that demand use of full throttle blasts and higher speeds to be cleared. Some stupid local track owners are adding stupid jumps like 85-ft triples and other stuff life that, making the track much more challenging, for reasons I don't comprehend. They build stupid jumps with almost no "fail" margins for the riders.

It is definitely a dangerous sport but it is very immature or selfish or douche to say "it's a dangerous sport, live with it". Modern motocross is killing and maiming people at a much higher rate than the previous decades. The race for bigger jumps, faster tracks and faster bikes is going to bite us back in the a$$ seriously at some point. Unless the makers and shakers of this sport take it more seriously.
what we do at pro level trickles down to the local and regional tracks and track owners.
Also said for years:

Unless we start regulating ourselves, the government will


It's going to happen, no if's, and's or but's...it will happen, unless the industry starts regulating itself
Shenzi
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5/18/2010 6:53am
jbomx363 wrote:
No solutions posted yet. Because there is no solution. Go through the National tracks that have been around and what really has changed so much? I...
No solutions posted yet. Because there is no solution. Go through the National tracks that have been around and what really has changed so much? I think I see more tabletops than there were before. I don't see as many open doubles/triples as there were either.

It's the nature of the beast (sport). Take away the internet and you'd know about the same amount of injuries as back in the day.
the US Outdoors tracks have definitely been very good over the past couple years (apart from the stupid jumps at Glen Helen in '07 and '08.). The National tracks have been safer.

I don't believe it's only because of the Internet like many like saying as a kind of an excuse. There are more avid riders than in the past decades, there are more serious amateur racing families, and more people travel across the country for racing and Winter practice. For example the last 2 fatal crash here in IL were known around the Midwest before it even reach the web and only 1 was actually reported on the web.
Hank_Thrill
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5/18/2010 7:03am
The last three posts X3

I realize there's no bullet-proof solution, just like there's no solution to eradicate crime, but there are statistics, and someday I would like to see the statistics lowered. Then again, there's really been no study on this, but one wouldn't be too difficult.

I think it comes down to three things, that have already been stated:

-bike technology (engine and suspension)
-gnarly tracks
-evolution of the sport.

jbomx363
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5/18/2010 7:07am
jbomx363 wrote:
No solutions posted yet. Because there is no solution. Go through the National tracks that have been around and what really has changed so much? I...
No solutions posted yet. Because there is no solution. Go through the National tracks that have been around and what really has changed so much? I think I see more tabletops than there were before. I don't see as many open doubles/triples as there were either.

It's the nature of the beast (sport). Take away the internet and you'd know about the same amount of injuries as back in the day.
Shenzi wrote:
the US Outdoors tracks have definitely been very good over the past couple years (apart from the stupid jumps at Glen Helen in '07 and '08.)...
the US Outdoors tracks have definitely been very good over the past couple years (apart from the stupid jumps at Glen Helen in '07 and '08.). The National tracks have been safer.

I don't believe it's only because of the Internet like many like saying as a kind of an excuse. There are more avid riders than in the past decades, there are more serious amateur racing families, and more people travel across the country for racing and Winter practice. For example the last 2 fatal crash here in IL were known around the Midwest before it even reach the web and only 1 was actually reported on the web.
And.. just as we use... "show me or prove it" on the helmet and leatt threads.. show me the statistics to prove your belief. A near impossibility as the number of people that ride is an unknown factor.

I'm like Dave, I don't get why spinal protection isn't worn more either.

I'd also like to see mandatory safety gear in place for the pro's, just like the hats off device that is mandatory. However, independent testing should also be required for any mandated equipment to be used. Start at the pro level and it will trickle down to the am's. But that's just the way I'd do it.

Torco1
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5/18/2010 8:42am Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 10:53pm
I agree with you Hank that it's becoming too much of a regular thing, but it's really hard to say what the solution should be. I broke my T6 & T7 a little over 2 years ago, I was on a 2-stroke, wasnt doing anything crazy or out of the ordinary, was on a track I rode 100 times, and I've crashed much harder lots of times before. It can happen at any time on the smallest or biggest obstacles, I think it's more of a "luck" or "unlucky" thing more than anything else.....and you cant really plan for stuff like that. I'm sure neck braces help and I always wear one now, but even the guy that works at Leatt just broke his back wearing one. All we can do is prepare ourselves as best we can and also accept the fact that it may happen to us.
Shenzi
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5/18/2010 8:51am
jbomx363 wrote:
And.. just as we use... "show me or prove it" on the helmet and leatt threads.. show me the statistics to prove your belief. A near...
And.. just as we use... "show me or prove it" on the helmet and leatt threads.. show me the statistics to prove your belief. A near impossibility as the number of people that ride is an unknown factor.

I'm like Dave, I don't get why spinal protection isn't worn more either.

I'd also like to see mandatory safety gear in place for the pro's, just like the hats off device that is mandatory. However, independent testing should also be required for any mandated equipment to be used. Start at the pro level and it will trickle down to the am's. But that's just the way I'd do it.

you're absolutely right, there's no proof, no viable stats and reports (especially with people not riding with insurances or not reporting mx-related accidents for insurance purposes).

I totally agree with Dave too that we need to add compulsory protections regulations like "real" back-protectors and thorax protections. Some of these are mandatory in some European competitions.

You mention "independent testing" and that is one of the issues/reasons why there is no more mandatory protections in the US, because a certain crowd is always going to say "show me independent tests, show me proof of efficiency". This is the big difference with the EU where, even though people dislike paying taxes like all human beings, they do not see governments as inefficient bodies like it appears the US crowd does. In the EU testing is mandatory for the ECE norm which is recognize and accepted by all (to the point some manufacturers try to cheat for it). There is no excuse asking for independent testings over there because to be legal to be sold as protections, products have to be ECE certified.
It is a totally different mentality for that, even though they are 27 different nations, different traditions, characters and languages. The use of protection, even when mandated, is perfectly accepted.

The only way to change the mentality and make protection a natural thing for the future generation is to mandate them at pro and national amateur level.

My new boss who moved here from Italy couldn't understand the other day during a MTB/Ski meeting with one of our partners why helmets are not mandated on ski hills, why top MTB downhillers think it's cool to look like an American MX rider and have slowly been abandoning protection over the past 5 years? He was like, "why do american people like being hurt and not being able to enjoy their sports longer and more often, I don't understand why they choose pain over fun" LOL!
pie8man
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5/18/2010 9:08am
So many of the spinal injuries are from what most of us would consider an average crash at low to medium speed. It only takes the smallest of bump to cause a sudden stop, Buttons crash comes to mind. I jacked my lower back and ended up having surgery to repair a bulged disc after simply landing hard and slamming into the seat. I did not think it was going to be a big deal.... until the bike bottomed... and then I bottomed on the bike. The suspension and what it can do is the biggest factor to the increased speeds and bigger get offs these days. When you max the suspension on todays machines bad things are about to happen at higher speeds.
5/18/2010 9:12am
Let's not forget the tracks have drastically changed in the last 5 years. I'm not blaming the 4 strokes, but they do favour a faster, more flowing track. If you go back and watch SX in the McGrath days, things were a lot more technical.
pie8man
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5/18/2010 9:13am
The spine protector is a great idea but in road racing they are protecting spines from outside impacts. I have never seen a spine protector that truly limits the range of motion or provides any help to a compression situation. I just do not think it is possible to make a truly functional brace for MX.
jasonward73
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5/18/2010 9:21am
pie8man
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5/18/2010 9:23am
Spinal injuries in sports.

Republished from:

* Neurol Clin. 2008 Feb;26(1):63-78; viii.

Abstract

Athletic competition has long been a known source of spinal injuries. Approximately 8.7% of all new cases of spinal cord injuries in the United States are related to sports activities. The sports activities that have the highest risk of catastrophic spinal injuries are football, ice hockey, wrestling, diving, skiing, snowboarding, rugby, and cheerleading. Axial compression forces to the top of the head can lead to cervical fracture and quadriplegia in any sport. It is critical for any medical personnel responsible for athletes in team sports to have a plan for stabilization and transfer of an athlete who sustains a cervical spine injury.
pie8man
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5/18/2010 9:26am
Who Do Spinal Cord Injuries Affect in the United States?

* 250,000 Americans are spinal cord injured.
* 52% of spinal cord injured individuals are considered paraplegic and 47% quadriplegic.
* Approximately 11,000 new injuries occur each year.
* 82% are male.
* 56% of injuries occur between the ages of 16 and 30.
* The average age of spinal cord injured person is 31.
* SCI injuries are most commonly caused by:
o Vehicular accidents 37%
o Violence 28%
o Falls 21%
o Sports-related 6%
o Other 8%
* The most rapidly increasing cause of injuries is due to violence; vehicular accident injuries are decreasing in number.
* 89% of all SCI individuals are discharged from hospitals to a private home, 4.3% are discharged to nursing homes.
* Only 52% of SCI individuals are covered by private health insurance at time of injury.
Tiki
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5/18/2010 9:45am
I think there are many contributors to spinal injuries in our sport. When compared to other spots like football Motocross still can not compare to the numbers of injured riders per participants. Mainly I think the Internet is the biggest contributor.

The internet provides a further reach of information. In my howe community Motocross is as much a part of the community as football and baseball. Many of the kids that play stick and ball sports also race in the summer. There is a general concern I hear from the parents as our community has experienced these injuries simply from the numbers of kids participating. Sadly it is accepted and our sport glorifies that "Chicks Dig Scars." It means you were going for it, and additionally the desire is how soon can you get back on the bike?

For as long as I can remember about the sport, I have always recalled seeing "injured soldiers" at races. Young men on the sidelines walking in body casts or in a C-Collar or even with walkers, simply from running out of talent on the track. It has become acceptable. Another sport that I have been around - simply in a working capacity is Mountain Bike Racing. There again when the big Nationals come to town, there are a always few attending to watch while they are rehabilitating. The sport even has a down hill class for chair riders. High Tech full suspension sleds with wheels for those that have already experienced life changing injuries but still want to be involved.

So, what I am say is; the internet passes the information on further. I have said it before and I will say it again. How can the tracks be the ones to blame if hundreds of bikes ride the track, multiply that by the laps done and only one person gets hurt. Is the track to blame or is the rider - simply pushing the envelope safety and talent comes up injured?

There are many contributing factors there. Track erosion, bike maintenance or simple dumb luck. The main one is the little rolly thing on the right side of the handlebar. Twist that throttle with confidence, not with aggression or adrenaline. I know its tough, we all get caught in the moment of what feels good but until we are paid to race don't value that plastic trophy for plaster on the body.

In final I will say A neck brace from any manufacturer is helpful, but many riders only wear that alone and hope the millimeter thin rayon on their body will combat the 40 MPH crash. The protection is available, it just needs to be employed. Dress for the crash and not for the girls.
Old Mate
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5/18/2010 11:31am
Dress for the crash and not for the girls.
This is a serious subject but this comment made me laugh. This comment is true.
5/18/2010 11:39am

4 strokes nose dive way too much for my liking...end of story.
lucero10x
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5/18/2010 11:42am
I don't want my son to race or really ride moto at all because of how many neck injuries there are. Legs, wrists, arms, ankles, bad knees and a sweet little concussion every now and then are one thing but OMG! I would be forever guilty, sad and depressed if I introduced my son to a sport that paralyzed him.

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