18 year old pro rule

joe101uk
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5/14/2010 7:47pm
@flarider

How do you know how much AC92 is making ? Are you his accountant ?

Do you think that the purse $$$ at an Amateur National is higher compared to a bonus for winning a GP ?

How much do you think Roczen and Herlings are on ? Do you think that there are any 15/16 year old motocross racers in America earning more than what they are ?

If AC92 can come over here and win an MX2 championship ( which i think he could easily do ), what would that do to his price tag compared to a couple LL's championships ?

If a young American Amateur rider can come over here and ride our tracks then he can ride anything in America. " If you can ride sand fast then you can ride anything fast "...i believe Ryan Dungey said that.
FreshTopEnd
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5/14/2010 7:48pm
It's even I'd say and premature to make any judgments. Each series has its respective strong and weak points.

flarider
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5/14/2010 7:49pm Edited Date/Time 5/14/2010 7:50pm
joe101uk wrote:
@flarider How do you know how much AC92 is making ? Are you his accountant ? Do you think that the purse $$$ at an Amateur...
@flarider

How do you know how much AC92 is making ? Are you his accountant ?

Do you think that the purse $$$ at an Amateur National is higher compared to a bonus for winning a GP ?

How much do you think Roczen and Herlings are on ? Do you think that there are any 15/16 year old motocross racers in America earning more than what they are ?

If AC92 can come over here and win an MX2 championship ( which i think he could easily do ), what would that do to his price tag compared to a couple LL's championships ?

If a young American Amateur rider can come over here and ride our tracks then he can ride anything in America. " If you can ride sand fast then you can ride anything fast "...i believe Ryan Dungey said that.
I think I know more than you think I know
Ing
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5/14/2010 7:54pm
flarider wrote:
I think I know more than you think I know
Oh yeah, well I know something nobody else knows and I'm not telling anyone. Naner, naner, naner.

The Shop

RACEGUY
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5/14/2010 7:56pm
I don't think I know shit.

It's probably for the best.
joe101uk
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5/14/2010 8:06pm
joe101uk wrote:
@flarider How do you know how much AC92 is making ? Are you his accountant ? Do you think that the purse $$$ at an Amateur...
@flarider

How do you know how much AC92 is making ? Are you his accountant ?

Do you think that the purse $$$ at an Amateur National is higher compared to a bonus for winning a GP ?

How much do you think Roczen and Herlings are on ? Do you think that there are any 15/16 year old motocross racers in America earning more than what they are ?

If AC92 can come over here and win an MX2 championship ( which i think he could easily do ), what would that do to his price tag compared to a couple LL's championships ?

If a young American Amateur rider can come over here and ride our tracks then he can ride anything in America. " If you can ride sand fast then you can ride anything fast "...i believe Ryan Dungey said that.
flarider wrote:
I think I know more than you think I know
So give me some answers then.....
flarider
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5/14/2010 8:13pm
No, I am not AC's accountant, but have an idea of his earnings
There is no purse at the amateur nationals, just like the GP's, but contingencies are higher here and riders like AC have additional bonuses built into their contracts
I have an idea of what Roczen and Herlings earn, and yes, there are 15/16 yr olds making more.
If AC "could easily" win the GP, how would that raise his value, if he can do it so easily? Wouldn't that be like cherry picking? For the record, I don't think it would be all that easy for him.

You can think or believe anything you want, doesn't mean your right.
It's like the other thread where GuyB was talking about banging his head on his keyboard.

Cheers



joe101uk
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5/14/2010 8:27pm
flarider wrote:
No, I am not AC's accountant, but have an idea of his earnings There is no purse at the amateur nationals, just like the GP's, but...
No, I am not AC's accountant, but have an idea of his earnings
There is no purse at the amateur nationals, just like the GP's, but contingencies are higher here and riders like AC have additional bonuses built into their contracts
I have an idea of what Roczen and Herlings earn, and yes, there are 15/16 yr olds making more.
If AC "could easily" win the GP, how would that raise his value, if he can do it so easily? Wouldn't that be like cherry picking? For the record, I don't think it would be all that easy for him.

You can think or believe anything you want, doesn't mean your right.
It's like the other thread where GuyB was talking about banging his head on his keyboard.

Cheers



What do you think Roczen and Herlings are being paid ?....If there are riders at their age making more then who are those riders ?

It would raise his value a ton !...What looks better on a CV...World Champion or Amateur LL Champion ?

I'm just a believer in AC92. I really do think he is the best 85cc rider in the world and if he keeps making progress then i think he is more than capable of winning a World Championship. Don't you think so ?

I'm not trying to argue anything by the way. I'm asking these questions because i'm curious on what you think.
joe101uk
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5/14/2010 8:32pm
DownSouth wrote:
line-up wrote:
kind of agree on this.
Whats' gonna happen in the long run?
Any predictions?
Luongo will win and end up owning everything that is Motocross. That's just my prediction haha
5/14/2010 8:32pm
Flarider is 100% right. I dont think AC would go there and win straight away just because of all the differences. He would be away from home eating starnge food, sleeping in strange places and racing on unfamiliar tracks that are nothing like US tracks. I think it would overall hurt him in preperation for supercross and possibly make his stock go down.

I have no idea how much AC makes but I do know how much Mike Alessi and some others made-make on 85s, they do fine as amatuers.
Lightning78
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5/14/2010 8:41pm
So.............putting 2 and 2 together Im seeing the repeal of the rule having something to do with a "suprise announcement" in the lites class DC was referring to in one of the other threads.....maybe we will see Roczen over here to contest this years nats?????? A few discounted the possibility of this happening due to the 18 year old rule but since it is getting repealed Im guessing that is the suprise DC was referring to .....

Question is, who will he be riding for?

As for Luongo and youthstream and the no purse money no wonder all of europe's finest want to come over here TO MAKE MORE MONEY.....Luongo you reading this????? You're losing ALL of your talent due to the lack of appeal for your euopean racers wanting to race the GP's pretty soon you'll have something equivalent to the canadian nats (no offense to the canadian series) but you see where I am going with this......if the trend continues anyone that can go fast and win in Europe will come to America to race as soon as they can win enough to garner a good contract.
mxnick
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5/14/2010 9:44pm
Here is a question: How old is Dungey? And what do you suppose his results would have been this year if he had been part of the 18 year old rules?
5/14/2010 10:49pm Edited Date/Time 5/14/2010 10:50pm
flarider wrote:
No, I am not AC's accountant, but have an idea of his earnings There is no purse at the amateur nationals, just like the GP's, but...
No, I am not AC's accountant, but have an idea of his earnings
There is no purse at the amateur nationals, just like the GP's, but contingencies are higher here and riders like AC have additional bonuses built into their contracts
I have an idea of what Roczen and Herlings earn, and yes, there are 15/16 yr olds making more.
If AC "could easily" win the GP, how would that raise his value, if he can do it so easily? Wouldn't that be like cherry picking? For the record, I don't think it would be all that easy for him.

You can think or believe anything you want, doesn't mean your right.
It's like the other thread where GuyB was talking about banging his head on his keyboard.

Cheers



This is code word for I'm gonna bring guyb in to fight my battles if you call me a gossipy cunt......be careful englishman. be careful.
Fat Fingers
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5/14/2010 11:01pm
So.............putting 2 and 2 together Im seeing the repeal of the rule having something to do with a "suprise announcement" in the lites class DC was...
So.............putting 2 and 2 together Im seeing the repeal of the rule having something to do with a "suprise announcement" in the lites class DC was referring to in one of the other threads.....maybe we will see Roczen over here to contest this years nats?????? A few discounted the possibility of this happening due to the 18 year old rule but since it is getting repealed Im guessing that is the suprise DC was referring to .....

Question is, who will he be riding for?

As for Luongo and youthstream and the no purse money no wonder all of europe's finest want to come over here TO MAKE MORE MONEY.....Luongo you reading this????? You're losing ALL of your talent due to the lack of appeal for your euopean racers wanting to race the GP's pretty soon you'll have something equivalent to the canadian nats (no offense to the canadian series) but you see where I am going with this......if the trend continues anyone that can go fast and win in Europe will come to America to race as soon as they can win enough to garner a good contract.
What planet are you living on? The purse money is not the reason why European riders go to America - Supercross has got to be the biggest reason. Purse money is a bonus for privateers, but not factory riders.

I would imagine a rider like Coppins gets paid more for doing the GP's than (top 10 rider) gets paid for doing the Nats.

If the GP series continues to improve the way it is, you will find riders with Supercross only contracts who then jump on a GP team for the remainder of the season. It's going to happen.

Someone like Josh Hill on a SX only contract would be getting offers to do the GP's next year.

BobbyM
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5/14/2010 11:07pm
This is code word for I'm gonna bring guyb in to fight my battles if you call me a gossipy cunt......be careful englishman. be careful.
for you to even say that proves the fuckballyness of your stupidity
Mike D
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5/14/2010 11:51pm
ONE KID Two pages and one kids name has come up. THAT is why this rule exists, because for that one kid, there are hundreds of familes betting there whole life that there kid will "Be the next Ricky Carmichael". The rule is to protect children from being ripped out of school, NOT making it as "The next Ryan Villopoto" and falling on there face as adults.


AC gets the short end.....YEP. but it saves alot of grief for alot of kids and families.
Lightning78
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5/15/2010 2:04am
So.............putting 2 and 2 together Im seeing the repeal of the rule having something to do with a "suprise announcement" in the lites class DC was...
So.............putting 2 and 2 together Im seeing the repeal of the rule having something to do with a "suprise announcement" in the lites class DC was referring to in one of the other threads.....maybe we will see Roczen over here to contest this years nats?????? A few discounted the possibility of this happening due to the 18 year old rule but since it is getting repealed Im guessing that is the suprise DC was referring to .....

Question is, who will he be riding for?

As for Luongo and youthstream and the no purse money no wonder all of europe's finest want to come over here TO MAKE MORE MONEY.....Luongo you reading this????? You're losing ALL of your talent due to the lack of appeal for your euopean racers wanting to race the GP's pretty soon you'll have something equivalent to the canadian nats (no offense to the canadian series) but you see where I am going with this......if the trend continues anyone that can go fast and win in Europe will come to America to race as soon as they can win enough to garner a good contract.
What planet are you living on? The purse money is not the reason why European riders go to America - Supercross has got to be the...
What planet are you living on? The purse money is not the reason why European riders go to America - Supercross has got to be the biggest reason. Purse money is a bonus for privateers, but not factory riders.

I would imagine a rider like Coppins gets paid more for doing the GP's than (top 10 rider) gets paid for doing the Nats.

If the GP series continues to improve the way it is, you will find riders with Supercross only contracts who then jump on a GP team for the remainder of the season. It's going to happen.

Someone like Josh Hill on a SX only contract would be getting offers to do the GP's next year.

Purse money was only part of my statement.........it isn't about SX either it's about the money european kids can make coming over here to race at an early stage of their professional careers.....If SX didn't PAY as much as it does and the GP's paid more both from teams and the scantioning bodies they would stay there.....there are only a SMALL handfull of european racers making good money staying in Europe.

For the rest coming to the AMA is a chance for them to make a LOT more money even if they place within the top 10. Do you really think they are coming here just to race SX? NOPE....there is more MONEY racing in America period and for some surviving the SX season to make an impact outdoors gives them the opportunity to make a lot more money that is why they want to come here....maybe I wasn't clear in my original post but 90% of Europe's top talent are coming herer ofr one reason MORE MONEY!

If Luongo and youthstream want to keep their top talented riders as a draw they better make it more financially appealing for the racers to stay in europe or the trend will continue and at the reate they are losing top riders it had better happen soon while they still have a few top names left .....once Caroli comes over here there won't much of anything to draw in crowds....
Lightning78
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5/15/2010 2:11am
And btw......the GP series is not improving based on what im seeing the likes of Roczen, Musquin and even Caroli wanting to come over tells me that things are not so good for racers over there or they would stay there right?

It's not if the series is imrpoving and that cannot be measured or quanified..... since they keep losing their top talent to the US it may be improving venue and money for youthstream wise but the riders dont seem to like what's going on or they would be staying correct?
cpj36
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5/15/2010 6:17am
Mike D wrote:
ONE KID Two pages and one kids name has come up. THAT is why this rule exists, because for that one kid, there are hundreds of...
ONE KID Two pages and one kids name has come up. THAT is why this rule exists, because for that one kid, there are hundreds of familes betting there whole life that there kid will "Be the next Ricky Carmichael". The rule is to protect children from being ripped out of school, NOT making it as "The next Ryan Villopoto" and falling on there face as adults.


AC gets the short end.....YEP. but it saves alot of grief for alot of kids and families.
So it's kind of similar to banning alcohol sales on Sunday then. We all suffer because a few think they know what's best for us all.

There would be no RV with this rule, his amateur career wouldn't have got him to the GP's and he'd just be two years behind because someone assumes his parents won't do what's best for him.

Are there really 100 kids quitting everything and trying to go pro? If so they have bigger problems than an age rule. You don't have to be a genius to have a reasonable expectation of your chances in this sport and there are only a few guys that may be close enough to justify the long shot.

it sure looks like the damaging behavior is occurring much earlier than when these kids should be finishing high school or going to college, they're quitting school at about 10, changing the rule from 16 to 18 means nothing to a home schooled 6th grader or his parents.

This rule is a hardship for someone like AC, while it arguably may keep a home schooled 16 year old in school it does nothing to help the kids that are dropping out of elementary school.

How likely is it that a 16 year old that's been home schooled for 6-7 years is now going to decide to get an education in the two years he has to wait?

If you really want to stop parents from going overboard then maybe we should do something to hinder rider development at an early age so it's much less attractive to live on the road or keep putting them on bigger bikes or faster classes.

This is as asinine as the age rule but just for the sake of argument maybe a 10 year old won't quit school and ride all day if he has to ride a 65 even though he's too big, if a 10 year old that's too big for a 65 can't race 85's wouldn't do much good to quit school and race. Wait until he's 16 to reign them in is useless. Not fair to some but neither is waiting for 18 and there is a hell of a lot more to be gained by slowing them down and keeping them in school at that age than 16.
cpj36
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5/15/2010 6:22am
This rule might be good if you were actually able to grow up normal and decide to drop out at 16 or not go to college in order to go pro, you have to trash you education much earlier in life to be the next RC today.
wardy
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5/15/2010 6:30am
running races all winter long during school days and call them amatuer nationals hurts the "normal" school process more then anything.......

18 is a good rule for the majority and there are many more reasons why it's good then bad.

most has been covered in here.

but nothing like getting real experience prior to jumping in with the big boys.

argue the 18 age limit all ya like but the fact is US guberment pretty much across the board says you are an adult at that age...........
cpj36
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5/15/2010 7:03am
wardy wrote:
running races all winter long during school days and call them amatuer nationals hurts the "normal" school process more then anything....... 18 is a good rule...
running races all winter long during school days and call them amatuer nationals hurts the "normal" school process more then anything.......

18 is a good rule for the majority and there are many more reasons why it's good then bad.

most has been covered in here.

but nothing like getting real experience prior to jumping in with the big boys.

argue the 18 age limit all ya like but the fact is US guberment pretty much across the board says you are an adult at that age...........
Good point, I forgot about that. Gatorback we can usually only miss one day of school, Friday, have to make Friday practice. Some of the other areas require two missed days while another region causes us to miss wed, thurs, friday and maybe Monday.

cpj36
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5/15/2010 7:04am
Maybe we should regulate jumping around to different regions or areas requiring too much travel time because it's better for the majority?
72kiteboarder
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5/15/2010 8:47am
So if the rule stays, They wont be going to Europe due to costs but they will stay in the amateur ranks longer and make the sandbagging exponentially worse?
Mike D
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5/15/2010 8:47am
cpj36 wrote:
This rule might be good if you were actually able to grow up normal and decide to drop out at 16 or not go to college...
This rule might be good if you were actually able to grow up normal and decide to drop out at 16 or not go to college in order to go pro, you have to trash you education much earlier in life to be the next RC today.
Exactly, you said it. "you have to trash your education much earlier in life to be the next RC" thats just one of the problems.
SteveS
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5/15/2010 8:54am
So if the rule stays, They wont be going to Europe due to costs but they will stay in the amateur ranks longer and make the...
So if the rule stays, They wont be going to Europe due to costs but they will stay in the amateur ranks longer and make the sandbagging exponentially worse?
Spending two years in A class is sandbagging?
motomom4
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5/15/2010 8:57am
Mike D wrote:
ONE KID Two pages and one kids name has come up. THAT is why this rule exists, because for that one kid, there are hundreds of...
ONE KID Two pages and one kids name has come up. THAT is why this rule exists, because for that one kid, there are hundreds of familes betting there whole life that there kid will "Be the next Ricky Carmichael". The rule is to protect children from being ripped out of school, NOT making it as "The next Ryan Villopoto" and falling on there face as adults.


AC gets the short end.....YEP. but it saves alot of grief for alot of kids and families.
AC is NOT the only kid coming up that has the potential to make a living racing dirtbikes, he is the kid that you see winning right now on 85's, that has nothing to do with once he gets on big bikes, IMO the competition on little bikes isn't what it use to be. If he is the only kid coming up that has a shot at racing motocross as a career, then I guess the sport will be over because it sounds to me like you think AC will be the only one out there...NOT!
flarider
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5/15/2010 8:59am
"A" is technically a "pro" class in that a rider can race for a purse. However, if the rider is under 18, he cannot obtain an AMA Pro license.

Post a reply to: 18 year old pro rule

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