Gypsy Privateer Opinion

Jeremy A.K.
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7/11/2024 11:08am Edited Date/Time 7/11/2024 12:44pm
JazzyJJ wrote:

Not the point, the point is that you'll have the top top guys and lesser dudes getting lapped regardless of your structure. 

My point was the top top guys are already there minus the ones that injured. Unless you're hinting at riders from Europe coming over for an entire season.

soggy
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7/11/2024 12:09pm
I’m on board with the last bit but the first part seems like your perceived perspective. It doesn’t appear that Feld has any problems with the...

I’m on board with the last bit but the first part seems like your perceived perspective. It doesn’t appear that Feld has any problems with the economics of SX nor the rental cost of a stadium. 

Sorry I wasn’t clear enough. I meant to say in the scenario we are talking about here with just 20-22 factory riders racing an SX weekend the economics would be more difficult to make work.  Yes feld is doing just fine. 

1
Cliffy615
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7/11/2024 12:19pm Edited Date/Time 7/11/2024 12:22pm
F1-3 race the same track on the same weekend with the same sponsors in front of the same fans with the same production.    No amount...

F1-3 race the same track on the same weekend with the same sponsors in front of the same fans with the same production.   

No amount of Jerry Robin’s and AJ Catanzaro’s (or up and coming factory amateurs) are going to draw people to an AX who weren’t already going to attend. 

It’s a different fan experience of a different discipline at a different venue.

I can’t see any way F3 would make financial sense if they were a completely separate series. 

Cliffy615 wrote:
Great idea, have the support races, sx futures etc on the Friday or the Sunday and leave the top level elite riders to be be the...

Great idea,

have the support races, sx futures etc on the Friday or the Sunday and leave the top level elite riders to be be the show and to have all eyes on them and nothing else for the main day, better track, better tv, better schedule, more professional more attractive to sponsors the list is endless 

GrapeApe wrote:

So the fans just show up on Saturday night, watch a 25 minute main event, and leave?

Could do a freestyle show, could have live music. Could do superpole, it would also be 2 mains 

1
7
therealhammer
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7/11/2024 12:23pm
Rickyisms wrote:
I’ll ask the same question nobody could answer last time this was brought up. You have people bitching every year on here about $80+ SX tickets...

I’ll ask the same question nobody could answer last time this was brought up.

You have people bitching every year on here about $80+ SX tickets. You get your premier series with 20 guys, How is a promoter supposed to sell tickets at the same (or even higher) price while only offering a 1/4 of the show? The promoter would still be incurring all the same expenses of track building, personnel, medical staff, stadium rentals, etc. 

Let me ask you this... are those other 3/4 of the guys selling any tickets anyways? Why do you assume because they are out there they are valuable to the event? Maybe the event schedule isn't 1:1 of what it is now. I was more on your side but mainly about the schedule/format change more than anything else about the actual privateers however, after talking it out I can understand the value of a shorter day and better track conditions and catering it more to the guys who actually sell the tickets. 

The Shop

therealhammer
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7/11/2024 12:27pm
SPYGUY wrote:
Everyone claims to love watching the privateers but then they all funnel out of the stadium and into the pits after the 450A group practice instead...

Everyone claims to love watching the privateers but then they all funnel out of the stadium and into the pits after the 450A group practice instead of staying and watching the privateers ride.

Arenacross is pretty much all privateers and is rarely, if ever, talked about on here because no one really cares.

Lets also not forget the fact that when the leaders are lapping the "slower riders", the fans are cursing them to get out of the way and not mess the top guys up. 

GrapeApe
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7/11/2024 12:30pm
Cliffy615 wrote:
Great idea, have the support races, sx futures etc on the Friday or the Sunday and leave the top level elite riders to be be the...

Great idea,

have the support races, sx futures etc on the Friday or the Sunday and leave the top level elite riders to be be the show and to have all eyes on them and nothing else for the main day, better track, better tv, better schedule, more professional more attractive to sponsors the list is endless 

GrapeApe wrote:

So the fans just show up on Saturday night, watch a 25 minute main event, and leave?

Cliffy615 wrote:

Could do a freestyle show, could have live music. Could do superpole, it would also be 2 mains 

That sounds awful. Why would you would rather watch freestyle and live music instead of supercross racing at a supercross race?

11
7/11/2024 1:41pm
Cliffy615 wrote:
I think the comparison is being taken too literally, the mention of F1 is being used as a comparative because it’s a racing sport everyone globally...

I think the comparison is being taken too literally, the mention of F1 is being used as a comparative because it’s a racing sport everyone globally knows about,

mx/sx would never be F1 nor should it be,

the point is in a truly professional sport you shouldn’t just be able to pay your entry fee and try your luck to qualify, it’s kind of ridiculous.

Imagine how much better TV would be if they weren’t trying to air a 4 hour show.

If they did quali mid day (aired seperately like F1 quali, and the night show was just the 2 races, 1.5hour prime time tv on a sports channel that would sell.

4 hours of heats, fillers lcqs then racing it’s too much and if it weren’t for the hardcore fans that always tune in they’d never sell it, 

 

Who is trucking out to a stadium and blowing a few hundred dollars for a 1.5 hour show?

7/11/2024 1:46pm

I would rather have more racing, not less. Lappers are part of racing in nearly every discipline.  

3
Tumic
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7/11/2024 2:05pm

Two pager and NOBODY have mentioned mxgp as the clear model for what we are talking about and how bad that ended up..

 

4
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DEMONDAVE
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7/11/2024 2:14pm

the real ticket to more racing "more exciting racing " would be an all privateer 125 2 stroke feeder series ran at every supercross event 

cut out the science of supercross nonsense  and other time filler spots and add real racing and racing that is affordable to the common man IE: local pros / first time pros ETC.

more racing not less would fill the stands and add more fans and money into the sport. 

5
7/11/2024 2:14pm
Rickyisms wrote:
I’ll ask the same question nobody could answer last time this was brought up. You have people bitching every year on here about $80+ SX tickets...

I’ll ask the same question nobody could answer last time this was brought up.

You have people bitching every year on here about $80+ SX tickets. You get your premier series with 20 guys, How is a promoter supposed to sell tickets at the same (or even higher) price while only offering a 1/4 of the show? The promoter would still be incurring all the same expenses of track building, personnel, medical staff, stadium rentals, etc. 

Let me ask you this... are those other 3/4 of the guys selling any tickets anyways? Why do you assume because they are out there they...

Let me ask you this... are those other 3/4 of the guys selling any tickets anyways? Why do you assume because they are out there they are valuable to the event? Maybe the event schedule isn't 1:1 of what it is now. I was more on your side but mainly about the schedule/format change more than anything else about the actual privateers however, after talking it out I can understand the value of a shorter day and better track conditions and catering it more to the guys who actually sell the tickets. 

They’re definitely helping sell tickets, are they selling more than the top 1%? Absolutely not, but that doesn’t make them invaluable to our series. Every SX has a few “local” privateers who end up drawing anywhere from 20-50 friends, family, local sponsors etc who probably aren’t hardcore Moto heads and wouldn’t be buying a ticket if they didn’t have a personal connection to someone racing.
 

Look how many people are waiting hours every weekend just to take a picture with Phil flipping the bird and then tell me it’s only the factory guys that are marketable and selling tickets. 
 

I’m still waiting for someone to explain to me how a promoter is able to actually make this work monetarily, all these ideas are great until you realize someone has to make money. 

2
2
64smoker
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7/11/2024 2:45pm
Rickyisms wrote:
I’ll ask the same question nobody could answer last time this was brought up. You have people bitching every year on here about $80+ SX tickets...

I’ll ask the same question nobody could answer last time this was brought up.

You have people bitching every year on here about $80+ SX tickets. You get your premier series with 20 guys, How is a promoter supposed to sell tickets at the same (or even higher) price while only offering a 1/4 of the show? The promoter would still be incurring all the same expenses of track building, personnel, medical staff, stadium rentals, etc. 

Let me ask you this... are those other 3/4 of the guys selling any tickets anyways? Why do you assume because they are out there they...

Let me ask you this... are those other 3/4 of the guys selling any tickets anyways? Why do you assume because they are out there they are valuable to the event? Maybe the event schedule isn't 1:1 of what it is now. I was more on your side but mainly about the schedule/format change more than anything else about the actual privateers however, after talking it out I can understand the value of a shorter day and better track conditions and catering it more to the guys who actually sell the tickets. 

Rickyisms wrote:
They’re definitely helping sell tickets, are they selling more than the top 1%? Absolutely not, but that doesn’t make them invaluable to our series. Every SX...

They’re definitely helping sell tickets, are they selling more than the top 1%? Absolutely not, but that doesn’t make them invaluable to our series. Every SX has a few “local” privateers who end up drawing anywhere from 20-50 friends, family, local sponsors etc who probably aren’t hardcore Moto heads and wouldn’t be buying a ticket if they didn’t have a personal connection to someone racing.
 

Look how many people are waiting hours every weekend just to take a picture with Phil flipping the bird and then tell me it’s only the factory guys that are marketable and selling tickets. 
 

I’m still waiting for someone to explain to me how a promoter is able to actually make this work monetarily, all these ideas are great until you realize someone has to make money. 

Phil’s a to top 5/10 guy though , some people are just circulating to get the main event money , do I blame them absolutely not , but isn’t great for the look of sport , in terms of other world class series you wouldn’t see that 

1
Herr Lich
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7/11/2024 2:55pm
8500rpm wrote:
I think people are confused over F1 due to the Netflix series and a huge marketing push in general in the US. F1 has been extremely...

I think people are confused over F1 due to the Netflix series and a huge marketing push in general in the US. F1 has been extremely glamorous and extremely expensive for 30+ years. It's silly to think that sx/mx would become even something remotely close during the next 10years. Where it's at in 30-40years I don't know.

There was so much money poured into F1 the last 30years, so many billionaires, so many pretty models, so many LV/Chanel wearing Moet sipping ladies with extremely wealthy men...

I think Gypsy Jase is really really good, but I think he got this wrong about 'F1', it feels like he discovered F1 the last 10years and is forgets how huge it was already 30years ago.

You're absolutely correct.  I've posted similar points in other threads, including Gypsy Bro's bizarre idea that moto can be like F1.  As you say F1 has been a huge sport for at least 50 years, it's just the Americans didn't realise this until Netflix alerted them to the fact. The demographics between moto and F1, as you also point out, are entirely different - blue collar and hat over the ear types mostly for moto - everyone including the super super rich for F1.  

Almost all of Gypsy Bro's ideas regarding almost everything are pretty unsophisticated and not well thought out.  He needs to well and truly stay in his lane.

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soggy
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7/11/2024 3:25pm
Cliffy615 wrote:
I think the comparison is being taken too literally, the mention of F1 is being used as a comparative because it’s a racing sport everyone globally...

I think the comparison is being taken too literally, the mention of F1 is being used as a comparative because it’s a racing sport everyone globally knows about,

mx/sx would never be F1 nor should it be,

the point is in a truly professional sport you shouldn’t just be able to pay your entry fee and try your luck to qualify, it’s kind of ridiculous.

Imagine how much better TV would be if they weren’t trying to air a 4 hour show.

If they did quali mid day (aired seperately like F1 quali, and the night show was just the 2 races, 1.5hour prime time tv on a sports channel that would sell.

4 hours of heats, fillers lcqs then racing it’s too much and if it weren’t for the hardcore fans that always tune in they’d never sell it, 

 

Who is trucking out to a stadium and blowing a few hundred dollars for a 1.5 hour show?

the stadiums are in cities and I'd guess most of the attendees are within city limits. 

SX is for casuals, Outdoors is for real fans.

1
7/11/2024 3:40pm

Less SX rounds for a start. 13/14 rounds max. This way the money isn’t stretched as far.

Around round 13 I’m thinking outdoors can’t cum quick enough.

1
GrapeApe
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Mc Kinney, TX, USA
7/11/2024 3:57pm
Cliffy615 wrote:
I think the comparison is being taken too literally, the mention of F1 is being used as a comparative because it’s a racing sport everyone globally...

I think the comparison is being taken too literally, the mention of F1 is being used as a comparative because it’s a racing sport everyone globally knows about,

mx/sx would never be F1 nor should it be,

the point is in a truly professional sport you shouldn’t just be able to pay your entry fee and try your luck to qualify, it’s kind of ridiculous.

Imagine how much better TV would be if they weren’t trying to air a 4 hour show.

If they did quali mid day (aired seperately like F1 quali, and the night show was just the 2 races, 1.5hour prime time tv on a sports channel that would sell.

4 hours of heats, fillers lcqs then racing it’s too much and if it weren’t for the hardcore fans that always tune in they’d never sell it, 

 

Who is trucking out to a stadium and blowing a few hundred dollars for a 1.5 hour show?

soggy wrote:

the stadiums are in cities and I'd guess most of the attendees are within city limits. 

SX is for casuals, Outdoors is for real fans.

SX draws all of the "real fans", it just also draws an additional 30k or so "casuals". Let's cater the the "real fans" that show up instead of DJ's, freestyle, cheerleaders, flaming baton twirlers, lazer light shows, superpoles and 25 minutes of racing. Save that for WSX.

2
7/11/2024 4:22pm
Let me ask you this... are those other 3/4 of the guys selling any tickets anyways? Why do you assume because they are out there they...

Let me ask you this... are those other 3/4 of the guys selling any tickets anyways? Why do you assume because they are out there they are valuable to the event? Maybe the event schedule isn't 1:1 of what it is now. I was more on your side but mainly about the schedule/format change more than anything else about the actual privateers however, after talking it out I can understand the value of a shorter day and better track conditions and catering it more to the guys who actually sell the tickets. 

Rickyisms wrote:
They’re definitely helping sell tickets, are they selling more than the top 1%? Absolutely not, but that doesn’t make them invaluable to our series. Every SX...

They’re definitely helping sell tickets, are they selling more than the top 1%? Absolutely not, but that doesn’t make them invaluable to our series. Every SX has a few “local” privateers who end up drawing anywhere from 20-50 friends, family, local sponsors etc who probably aren’t hardcore Moto heads and wouldn’t be buying a ticket if they didn’t have a personal connection to someone racing.
 

Look how many people are waiting hours every weekend just to take a picture with Phil flipping the bird and then tell me it’s only the factory guys that are marketable and selling tickets. 
 

I’m still waiting for someone to explain to me how a promoter is able to actually make this work monetarily, all these ideas are great until you realize someone has to make money. 

64smoker wrote:
Phil’s a to top 5/10 guy though , some people are just circulating to get the main event money , do I blame them absolutely not...

Phil’s a to top 5/10 guy though , some people are just circulating to get the main event money , do I blame them absolutely not , but isn’t great for the look of sport , in terms of other world class series you wouldn’t see that 

You’re not wrong, I just think the whole “F1” approach is very short sighted and I think a huge problem is a lot of MX fans think this sport is way bigger than it actually is. I do agree that the current system could use some tweaks and updates, but I think offering less to the fans to seem more “legit” like other racing series isn’t the answer for our sport. 
 

We’re really lucky our sport hasn’t blown up, it’s bad ass how accessible everything is to the average fan at a national. 

2
Pop Shmoke
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7/11/2024 4:36pm Edited Date/Time 7/11/2024 4:42pm
8500rpm wrote:
I think people are confused over F1 due to the Netflix series and a huge marketing push in general in the US. F1 has been extremely...

I think people are confused over F1 due to the Netflix series and a huge marketing push in general in the US. F1 has been extremely glamorous and extremely expensive for 30+ years. It's silly to think that sx/mx would become even something remotely close during the next 10years. Where it's at in 30-40years I don't know.

There was so much money poured into F1 the last 30years, so many billionaires, so many pretty models, so many LV/Chanel wearing Moet sipping ladies with extremely wealthy men...

I think Gypsy Jase is really really good, but I think he got this wrong about 'F1', it feels like he discovered F1 the last 10years and is forgets how huge it was already 30years ago.

Cliffy615 wrote:
I think the comparison is being taken too literally, the mention of F1 is being used as a comparative because it’s a racing sport everyone globally...

I think the comparison is being taken too literally, the mention of F1 is being used as a comparative because it’s a racing sport everyone globally knows about,

mx/sx would never be F1 nor should it be,

the point is in a truly professional sport you shouldn’t just be able to pay your entry fee and try your luck to qualify, it’s kind of ridiculous.

Imagine how much better TV would be if they weren’t trying to air a 4 hour show.

If they did quali mid day (aired seperately like F1 quali, and the night show was just the 2 races, 1.5hour prime time tv on a sports channel that would sell.

4 hours of heats, fillers lcqs then racing it’s too much and if it weren’t for the hardcore fans that always tune in they’d never sell it, 

 

Now this point about how long the races are I think is important. Dont get me wrong I watch the entire show every weekend start to finish, but I’m still a human who lives in the modern smartphone era and damn does it sometimes take a lot to get through the whole 3-4 hours of racing and I’m a diehard fan. Most ppl will watch something for an hour to an hour and a half tops. Sx especially if it wants to grow is probably going to need to trim it down to just the main events. We dont watch practice and qualifying in really any other sport. The heat races are fun to watch a good amount of the time, but at the end of the day they dont really matter and nobody really remembers what happened in them. A 1.5 hour show of just the main events would be about the most badass thing that exists on tv for a good amount of ppl imo.

7/11/2024 5:01pm Edited Date/Time 7/11/2024 6:08pm

Fuck Gypsy. 
We can have our own identity for Dirtbikes. 
We dont have to follow F1 or Motogp, where its a celebrity party, where the working class are 3rd rate. 
I think its the biggest selling point, seeing guys with grit amd determination able to mix it near the top.

Better than rich kids buying their spots of other sports. 
 

Maybe that Gypsy douche can just go mainstream and leave our sport altogether. Anyone can do his gig. Nothing special interviewing people. He wouldnt be out of place in the movie Idiocracy…

3
6
Soul Indigo
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Phuket, TH
7/11/2024 6:19pm
Tumic wrote:

Two pager and NOBODY have mentioned mxgp as the clear model for what we are talking about and how bad that ended up..

 

The two threads I’m currently in mostly are people whining about privateers and people whining about 12 dudes at fly away races. 
 

Vital.

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1
Darrin Willis
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Red Deer County, AB, CA
7/11/2024 7:16pm
Fuck Gypsy.  We can have our own identity for Dirtbikes.  We dont have to follow F1 or Motogp, where its a celebrity party, where the working...

Fuck Gypsy. 
We can have our own identity for Dirtbikes. 
We dont have to follow F1 or Motogp, where its a celebrity party, where the working class are 3rd rate. 
I think its the biggest selling point, seeing guys with grit amd determination able to mix it near the top.

Better than rich kids buying their spots of other sports. 
 

Maybe that Gypsy douche can just go mainstream and leave our sport altogether. Anyone can do his gig. Nothing special interviewing people. He wouldnt be out of place in the movie Idiocracy…

I can't listen to anymore Ausie accent dudes or birds either.  Plus hes a ball licking douchebag.

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5
Shakybonez15
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7/11/2024 7:50pm Edited Date/Time 7/11/2024 7:51pm

Ill solve the issue… 3 main events.

 

1 450 A class 

1 450 B class - where the privateers live

1 250 class

Start the racing day earlier, gates open at 9-10am

night show starts at 2pm and runs it course.

(They used to run freaking day qualifier races, so i see exactly zero issues with my proposal) 

 

3
7/12/2024 1:43am Edited Date/Time 7/12/2024 1:48am
Fuck Gypsy.  We can have our own identity for Dirtbikes.  We dont have to follow F1 or Motogp, where its a celebrity party, where the working...

Fuck Gypsy. 
We can have our own identity for Dirtbikes. 
We dont have to follow F1 or Motogp, where its a celebrity party, where the working class are 3rd rate. 
I think its the biggest selling point, seeing guys with grit amd determination able to mix it near the top.

Better than rich kids buying their spots of other sports. 
 

Maybe that Gypsy douche can just go mainstream and leave our sport altogether. Anyone can do his gig. Nothing special interviewing people. He wouldnt be out of place in the movie Idiocracy…

You should take his job, can you get Travis Pastrana on? I'm keen for an update, thanks.

1
2
CPR
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7/12/2024 1:47am

So if you start a SX season with 20 factory riders……what happens with injuries?
You end up with only 10 bikes on the line? Or 10 factory riders and 10 privateers as fill-ins?
What happens to the ‘F2’ series the fill-ins get pulled from?
Yeah, nah.
 

2
7/12/2024 1:49am
CPR wrote:
So if you start a SX season with 20 factory riders……what happens with injuries? You end up with only 10 bikes on the line? Or 10...

So if you start a SX season with 20 factory riders……what happens with injuries?
You end up with only 10 bikes on the line? Or 10 factory riders and 10 privateers as fill-ins?
What happens to the ‘F2’ series the fill-ins get pulled from?
Yeah, nah.
 

Yeah that's probably the biggest issue with the idea, but I see his point.

1
Rupert X
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7/12/2024 3:54am

Keep yo stinking hands off my privateers. They be the lifeblood of our Motocross. 

7
jemcee
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7/12/2024 5:15am

I've had the thought that we could do something kinda similar to the surfing model with a Championship Tour and a Qualifying series.. Like have a 'fast 40' in each class that is straight in the night show at every round, so it's still the same night show, but somehow have riders out of the 40 and maybe the bottom 10-20 in the 40 competing to qualify for the next year.. Whether that's in separate nights at smaller arenas or earlier in the day.. I haven't really thought it all the way through haha

But you could have injury replacements for the fast 40 from the qualifying series if needed and shit like that.. I'd also say it's better for sponsorship opportunities if you could say that you're part of the fast 40 and guaranteed to be at least in the heats every round

Cliffy615
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7/12/2024 5:54am

How about,

Qualifying, B races, Sx futures etc on Friday, 

sack off heat races 

2x 250 motos

2x 450 motos

Swap the heats for an extra race, 

2 hour tv slot and plenty of action for viewers in the stadium on the Saturday. Can add superpole if night show needs extending,

also Friday, Saturday and weekend tickets available for the diehards that want to watch the racing / qualis on Friday night and the main event on the Sat

2
TeamGreen
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Thru-out, CA, USA
7/12/2024 8:15am

This ain’t Formula 1. 

The grass-roots aspect of Motocross is still an important part of the sport even at the National level. 

That’s all there is to it.

8
Flatliner
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7/12/2024 12:35pm

It's tough for sure... anyone watching races in the late 90's know how out of place some local pro's were during daytime practices.  I've personally been an Minneapolis and watched guys roll everything, double the triple and call it a lap.

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