Paid flaggers at Nationals

I think it will eliminate some of the bad flagging but not all of it. Yes some of the flaggers they hire have no business being out there. But flagging is more difficult than a lot of people think and it wouldn't be long until there's people complaining about a paid flagger screw up. 

Unless you could find guys that just absolutely love flagging it would be pretty expensive. I know nothing about what mxsports makes but I would think if they ran a profitable business they could afford to take a hit hire flaggers and still profit. 

The lights are a good idea but think of how hard it would be to see unless they had police light bars above the takeoffs.  

Lights and sirens have been in use at some tracks down here for close to 20 years , they are much easier to see than a flagged at the top of an up ramp 

I think it would be the far more affordable option. But you would have to have guys still paying attention to turn them on in the event of a crash. 

Correct they still have the human factor , when we first tried them the siren wasn’t part of it but people said they didn’t always see the light , the siren made it better 

I'd agree I dont think I would be able to spot a light all the time. The siren would help.  

you lost me at "kooksy mentioned"

Same here 

I once flagged a corner for a national at Glen Helen. I was reasonably vetted by the person in charge of the flagging team; they only took people with provable racing experience (I was a member of the Over the Hill Gang club and CMC at the time). It’s not a particularly fun or glamorous job, and I never signed up for it again, once was enough. But I gotta say, even if you paid them $50/hr, there’s no guarantee they’ll do a better job than the volunteers now. 
 

Oh, and nobody got injured at my corner…

The solution to this is so simple. There were over 150 professional dirt bike racers signed up to race red bud. Many of them complain about the costs associated with racing. Every rider either pays a flagging fee or provides a flagger for an assigned practice or qualifying session. Guys making good money will just pay the fee. The rest will designate a flagger.  Could be family member, mechanic, the rider himself....

For the main show you pay the privateers who didn't make it in or refund their entry fee. Could have the track totally lined with people who know racing and know where the dangers on the track are. The fees paid by the rich guys can help fund this. 

Flaggers are outdated. We should use them in some parts of the track. But lights on the track/bikes and possibly in helmet communication is a way better solution. 
 

Its way to easy for a flagger to be distracted by wanting watch what is happening in the race. They are after all fans of the sport and having to watch one jump or turn for 4 hours when you have one of the best seats in the house to watch a professional race it can be hard only watch the same thing every minute of the race. 

all u guys thinking lights are the answer are 1st level thinkers. someone has to push the button to activate the lights. the same human delay and flaws of a human flagger. 

i've flagged for red bud and their events over the years. they usually get past and current riders to fill their positions for their events.  our whole club who all have years of mx and dirt track experience both racing and as flaggers have worked their events in past.. 

and there is so much to it than just payin some guys to flag the series. do yo think a track owner wants some randoms to show up and flag? do you think their insurance companies are gonna allow it? there isa multitude of complications the vital experts have no idea of.

Maybe establish a Flaggers training course & require a minimum of xx hours of racing experience before paying them, and have them sign some type of responsibility contract to prevent negligence and have them hold some liability for their service? 

Lights and sirens are in addition to Flaggers not instead of , they work well , 

The flaggers need some type of shade. Anyone that has flagged for a day on a hot summer day knows it can get delirious real quick.

This all sounds awesome but here’s the thing and it’s something I was unfortunately told by an AMA official when I flagged a national and brought this exact topic up in conversation;

“They’re already showing up for free, why would they pay them?”

There are a lot of other factors involved in this i.e. certain tracks using their own crews etc. which this official mentioned as well but after hearing that response, I’d imagine they’ll invest in technology before they consider paying a traveling flagging crew. 

Sounds sooo horrible. So if you’re a privateer and you don’t make the show. After all the hustle and hard work and money… instead of cleaning up and potentially getting back on the road and get home since you drive, you have to stay and further deplete your energy and flag for the rest of the day? And if you reimburse their entry it would be more than double the current pay for a flagger so that’s not going to happen. The situation sucks. There are a lot of people who want to flag and those willing to do so will not for the cost. Those that do it for the cost are just eating their hot dog and taking selfies of their new tee shirt. 
 

I don’t have an answer for the problem, but I know this is not it. 

gonna have to call bullshit on an ama "official" telling you that....

track and year?

Last year, thunder valley. This was after I had asked about working for the series full time and then it eventually led to safety etc. He sounded pretty defeated and presented it with “I hate to say this but..” and ended with “we’re working on it” so it wasn’t all doom and gloom. He was wearing an AMA shirt but maybe he worked for the track 🤔. Either way, I appreciated his honesty. 

Solved: 🙄

At the VERY least require each team to supply a crew member / spotter as a flagger for each race. 
 

They are already traveling to races and are knowledgeable about the sport and on track etc.  

Require tracks to have lights/sirens installed at spots that are “traditionally” spots needed. 

Then fill in if still needed with current local knowledgeable people and pay them and make it VIP / special to them somehow. 
 

Just make some kind of improvement instead of a stool and a flag in the sun to provide safety.

✌️

Question, do they pay the guys waving the blue flags? If they can pay them why wouldn’t they want to pay the guys that are protecting the rider on the ground?

It really is getting embarrassing at this point, that's for sure. 

It's certainly the next step in safety. Similar to the Alpinestars medical program.

How about the THOR or ONEAL flagging crew? (for example) Find someone to sponsor it, make it a proper, trained program, give them all matching, branded apparel and call them the 'XXXX' flaggers so that brand gets the advert from it. This isn't science, shouldn't be all that difficult to get funded. 

No offense, but this is the top professional level of the sport, the sanctioning body/series should be taking care of this.

I disagree wholeheartedly. We all grew up with flaggers, we are used to looking for and seeing them and having able bodies to get to a rider fast is important. 

HOWEVER, you are 100% right about in ear communication. I believe the riders should have in-ear contact with ONE person only at all times. I feel like this is one point a riders union could get put into motion. The difficult part is finding appropriate time on a moto track to talk to your rider. It is well known that in F1 or Nascar, you don't talk to the guy when he is braking, in a wheel to wheel battle, etc for fear of breaking their concentration. But a spotter could certainly relay useful information to riders to help make the racing more competitive and keep them safer. 

Hey Dan, you are in the Polkadots MC club I believe ?  What years did you guy's flag the national ? Our club back then Michigan offroad racing association flagged the national 1991 thru 1996 ( I only flagged 91 thru 94) Our club would get a set amount of $$ from Gene  and we members that actually worked the event would get the Official track member shirt plus the event shirt,food and drinks for the day.

The Flagger at the take off is a AMA official. He is a paid Flagger.

The challenge is he was blue flagging hard for the top 5 riders. He is looking up track to do that.

Should have been looking both ways, up track and down track for downed bikes also.

Didn’t have the yellow flag in his other hand. Or remote for safety lights. How he missed a bike endoing off the top of the table is concerning. Guessing there was a massive panic rev before the crash.

The flagger at the landing is a local Flagger whose responsibility is the corner past him down track after the jump. Just because he’s in the camera shot doesn’t mean he’s responsible for the take off of the jump.

Radio communication between the flagger at the landing and the AMA official would have been nice but somewhat impractical.

Hopefully this will at least be discussed and something changed.

One thing that could be done if you are really concerned about flagging is to go back to stiffer penalties for riders not obeying them.

How in the hell do you ignore a red cross flag and still win the overall at a pro national?

Yeah, hymas lost 5 points, but they may or may not make a difference at the end of the series. Points should have been assessed on the moto finish to affect the overall scoring for the day. Riders should not get factory bonuses for a finish that a penalty has changed.

The penalty should be real, and felt as soon after the infraction as possible, like the incident in sx earlier in the year.