we r starting a riders union

jamma10
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5/3/2010 7:12am
DC wrote:
I chimed in with Grant on Saturday night; I believe it's always smart to listen to the riders and also weigh the possibilities with the realities...
I chimed in with Grant on Saturday night; I believe it's always smart to listen to the riders and also weigh the possibilities with the realities of any situation and do the best we can.

As for what happened to Andrew McFarlane, we are still trying to figure out the circumstances. If it was a chain reaction crash on a blind jump, like what happened to Christophe Pourcel in Ireland and Mike Alessi in Red Bud, well, that's why we started the wheels-on-the-ground flag that got us beat up here last summer.... And why we're sticking with that signal and rule.

DC
MX Sports
From what I've read on websites it seems he cross rutted on the face of a fast jump and landed awkwardly Sad
spd721
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5/3/2010 7:19am
DC wrote:
I chimed in with Grant on Saturday night; I believe it's always smart to listen to the riders and also weigh the possibilities with the realities...
I chimed in with Grant on Saturday night; I believe it's always smart to listen to the riders and also weigh the possibilities with the realities of any situation and do the best we can.

As for what happened to Andrew McFarlane, we are still trying to figure out the circumstances. If it was a chain reaction crash on a blind jump, like what happened to Christophe Pourcel in Ireland and Mike Alessi in Red Bud, well, that's why we started the wheels-on-the-ground flag that got us beat up here last summer.... And why we're sticking with that signal and rule.

DC
MX Sports
jamma10 wrote:
From what I've read on websites it seems he cross rutted on the face of a fast jump and landed awkwardly Sad
Do they know what kind of injury it was yet?
Moto_Geek
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5/3/2010 7:28am
Right on.. I've always been a fan for making tracks safe and still have hard obstacles with saftey in mind for coming up short,cross rutting or jump faces that kick the rear tire up. But even pros make mistakes. And well it's a dirt track, things always come up to bite us riders. I really think you are on to something REALLY good Grant. This is the best thing that could come out of such a tragedy.

jamma10
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5/3/2010 7:35am Edited Date/Time 5/3/2010 7:50am
DC wrote:
I chimed in with Grant on Saturday night; I believe it's always smart to listen to the riders and also weigh the possibilities with the realities...
I chimed in with Grant on Saturday night; I believe it's always smart to listen to the riders and also weigh the possibilities with the realities of any situation and do the best we can.

As for what happened to Andrew McFarlane, we are still trying to figure out the circumstances. If it was a chain reaction crash on a blind jump, like what happened to Christophe Pourcel in Ireland and Mike Alessi in Red Bud, well, that's why we started the wheels-on-the-ground flag that got us beat up here last summer.... And why we're sticking with that signal and rule.

DC
MX Sports
jamma10 wrote:
From what I've read on websites it seems he cross rutted on the face of a fast jump and landed awkwardly Sad
spd721 wrote:
Do they know what kind of injury it was yet?
Only that he suffered a fatal head injury. The crash is being investigated, but I don't think any other rider was involved. I don't really like to speculate, but my guess is that he got thrown off the bike in the air and took a big impact on landing.

The Shop

5/3/2010 7:47am
GL good luck on forming a riders association to address rider safety. Having some big names in the sport on board and leading the way in organizing an outlet for riders to voice their concerns will hopefully reduce the amount of preventable injuries. To have a single voice speaking on behalf of and supported by all racers is the way to bring change. A forum to sit down with promoters and track designers is good for everyone in the sport.
pie8man
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5/3/2010 8:15am Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 10:35pm
There are no doubt some big challenges ahead here. But lean on what has already been done, such as the other racing groups mentioned. I do not agree with all that OSHA does but they have by far the most experience in job related safety than any organization on the planet. It is a long painful read but will shed some light on the direction you are heading. It is my understanding that the racers employer (teams) and the promoter gets away from any liability through creative contract language. In my opinion you need to find a way to make your employer and the promoter equally liable for racer safety.

http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owasrch.search_form?p_doc_type=OSHACT&p…

From OSHA website;
You have the right to a safe workplace. The Occupational Safety and Health Act of 1970 (OSHAct) was passed to prevent workers from being killed or seriously harmed at work. The law requires that employers provide their employees with working conditions that are free of known dangers. The Act created the Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA), which sets and enforces protective workplace safety and health standards. OSHA also provides information, training and assistance to workers and employers. Workers may file a complaint to have OSHA inspect their workplace if they believe that their employer is not following OSHA standards or there are serious hazards.
Farva
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5/3/2010 8:29am
pie8man wrote:
There are no doubt some big challenges ahead here. But lean on what has already been done, such as the other racing groups mentioned. I do...
There are no doubt some big challenges ahead here. But lean on what has already been done, such as the other racing groups mentioned. I do not agree with all that OSHA does but they have by far the most experience in job related safety than any organization on the planet. It is a long painful read but will shed some light on the direction you are heading. It is my understanding that the racers employer (teams) and the promoter gets away from any liability through creative contract language. In my opinion you need to find a way to make your employer and the promoter equally liable for racer safety.

http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owasrch.search_form?p_doc_type=OSHACT&p…

From OSHA website;
You have the right to a safe workplace. The Occupational Safety and Health Act of 1970 (OSHAct) was passed to prevent workers from being killed or seriously harmed at work. The law requires that employers provide their employees with working conditions that are free of known dangers. The Act created the Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA), which sets and enforces protective workplace safety and health standards. OSHA also provides information, training and assistance to workers and employers. Workers may file a complaint to have OSHA inspect their workplace if they believe that their employer is not following OSHA standards or there are serious hazards.
How does this not apply to Supercross?
munsch121
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5/3/2010 8:33am
This is the best news Ihave heard in a long long time.......way to take it into your own hands.
pie8man
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5/3/2010 8:44am
I am not sure, I guarantee that every other employee of every race team falls under OSHAs jurisdiction. Truck driver, mechanics, office personnel etc.... I do know that as a private contractor which is what the rider is they are responsible for themselves in what they do but that does not relieve the parties that execute the contract of the liability.
SH_105
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5/3/2010 8:53am
I find it quite funny that everone who is critical of this movement think its all about Money... We just had one of our best riders in the world pass away, just put your irrational thinking aside and put two and two together! We all Love this sport, we live this sport and breathe it!! Its just time we start making sure all involved are protected and looked after if something bad does happen. Also getting a plan in place to make sure they do listen to us when we feel things need change on and at the races. Yes I do feel we are under paid compared to the risk we do take on but thats another ball of wax and I knew what I was getting into long before I signed up to do this as a Pro. Until we take further steps to make this sport better it wont get the attention it needs or deserves and that I feel is in the safety side of things first


105
Camp332
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5/3/2010 8:56am
I would like to see the union happen for the riders. I also think that David Bailey would be a great consultant for you, GL, and Reed, when it comes time for the details of setting up the union.
SH_105
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5/3/2010 9:00am
Camp332 wrote:
I would like to see the union happen for the riders. I also think that David Bailey would be a great consultant for you, GL, and...
I would like to see the union happen for the riders. I also think that David Bailey would be a great consultant for you, GL, and Reed, when it comes time for the details of setting up the union.
I agree a 100%! Bailey, Fonseca and James Marshall.... Thos are the ones who we need to listen to and understand what needs to be changed first hand!


105
huck
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5/3/2010 9:05am Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 10:35pm
I personally think that "unions" have all but ruined this country...however, I would be all for a "rider's union"...of sorts.



I think going forward, there needs to be some "goals", instead of simply stating..."We're forming a rider's union".


2Smoke
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Carlsbad, CA, USA
5/3/2010 9:07am
It's great to hear that some top riders are getting involved in this. Coincidentally, I was speaking to another team owner the other day of the need for a union. From a financial standpoint, the top 10 guys are usually well taken care of, but it's those guys that run 10th-20th that are living paycheck to paycheck. It's amazing how many talented riders who can make a main event, don't even have a pot to piss in, and it's not because they blew a bunch of money. The AMA payouts are absolutely embarrassing. They should learn from NASCAR and golf and have a title sponsor for each race and split that money among the participants. There also needs to be some kind of pension plan for these guys risking life and limb on tracks that they are not always comfortable with. The promoters don't really care about guys outside the top 10 because they don't get into the TV coverage. As far as they are concerned, as long as they have enough guys to fill the TV screen, then they have a marketable show. It will take the top riders to put pressure on the promoters if there is ever going to be a change. It is obvious by this thread that you will have all the support you need from the MX community, now you just have to get the top guys to take an active role.
Ozzy
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5/3/2010 9:11am Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 10:35pm
Maybe I've been around to long, but all this has been tried before.
Each & every time I supported it 110%.
I hope this times the charm for sure.
If there's anyway I can help count on me.
I've seen & witnessed far to much to turn the other cheek.
This benefits ALL, that's what most don't seem to understand through all this.
Safe is good!
Safe makes the sports better.
The nay-sayers need to just look around.
It's long overdue and about time.
Make it happen boyz!
"I support it and I support your efforts."
Dave O.Wink
5/3/2010 9:23am
I'm new here and joined because I heard of this thread and the effort to organize. It may require a lot of patience and comprimise but standing together as a group may be the best protection available. It is not totally unprecedented. I saw a group of FIM riders have changes made to a dangerous section at an MXGP in Roggensberg Switzerland many years ago. Georges Jobe and Rolf Dieffenbach led the effort and, despite FIM and promotor threats, the other riders joined in and got the section changed.

I admit to not having read the entire thread. Hope I am not repeating too much of what has already been offered. I would like to commend Chad and Grant and encourage others to make it a united effort. And, mention that an organized group might qualify for some special accident insurance rates?

Sliim280
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5/3/2010 9:26am
Camp332 wrote:
I would like to see the union happen for the riders. I also think that David Bailey would be a great consultant for you, GL, and...
I would like to see the union happen for the riders. I also think that David Bailey would be a great consultant for you, GL, and Reed, when it comes time for the details of setting up the union.
SH_105 wrote:
I agree a 100%! Bailey, Fonseca and James Marshall.... Thos are the ones who we need to listen to and understand what needs to be changed...
I agree a 100%! Bailey, Fonseca and James Marshall.... Thos are the ones who we need to listen to and understand what needs to be changed first hand!


105
dont forget about jimmy button, he too had a career ending injury. He is also an agent and would be able to help you guys in contracts and negotiations i believe as well.
JW381
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5/3/2010 9:27am
Sounds good Zulu. Good luck to you and everyone involved.
Titan1
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5/3/2010 9:33am Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 10:35pm
I'm all for the riders organizing for their saftey...100%.

And I"m surprised at the reaction from the fans on here, well, not really I guess. But we'll really get to see their true opinion of a riders union the first time they've spent $300 on gas driving 6-8 hours round trip to a race, $400 on a hotel, took two days off work, spent $200 on food, $200 on tickets only to find out that the riders booycotted the race because they think the track is unsafe. They might get refunded their ticket prices....but the rest of the money spent going to a race is money down the drain.

I suspect that the first time that happens, the "fans" will be pissed...possibly even some on this board...those like Oldfart, that is all about 'bang for the buck' and is the type that would demand a refund if he attended a SX race that was shortened 5 laps because of the weather FOR THE RIDERS SAFTEY....if he spent $800 on a weekend to watch a race, and they didn't race...guys like him would be calling for someone's head!

I guess we'll see....but good luck to the riders....if a race I ever attend gets boycotted by the riders, I'll do my best to keep my mouth shut and not complain.

Hopefully it would never come down to a full on "boycott" of a race...hopefully the threat of an organized boycott would be enough to force the promotor to modify the track so the riders would race....I hope that's as bad as it ever has to get.
Drfletcher
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Cumming, GA, USA
5/3/2010 9:43am
It is way past time that the top riders band together and put a stop to this craziness. A lot of local tracks need to be tamed down as well but that is another topic.

We are behind you guys and support you. Just let us know what we can do to help.
Trip
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5/3/2010 9:52am
Sounds like thing s are getting off track.. Some of are bringing up names of injured riders.. Not all riders that have been injured have been injured on a dangerous part of the track.. People get injured working in preschools, those are pretty safe..

Speculation about Andrew, well it is what it is... Was the track unsafe?? Was it talked about before the race?? Did the promoter refuse to listen to the racers??? All answers we dont know. so we need to quit using every fallen rider from the past as an example of an unsafe track. Is a union really going to work overseas??? Some of you guys are jumping the gun.

I agree we need safe tracks. If the guys who race those tracks feel unsafe then they need a voice. So overall it's a great idea, it's just not going to stop every injury from ever happening... Slow down guys..
sharkey
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5/3/2010 10:09am
Camp332 wrote:
I would like to see the union happen for the riders. I also think that David Bailey would be a great consultant for you, GL, and...
I would like to see the union happen for the riders. I also think that David Bailey would be a great consultant for you, GL, and Reed, when it comes time for the details of setting up the union.
SH_105 wrote:
I agree a 100%! Bailey, Fonseca and James Marshall.... Thos are the ones who we need to listen to and understand what needs to be changed...
I agree a 100%! Bailey, Fonseca and James Marshall.... Thos are the ones who we need to listen to and understand what needs to be changed first hand!


105
Bailey would be awesome hes been around forever, great spokesman, sounds like you guys are are the right path. goodluck
MxMouth
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hemet, CA, USA
5/3/2010 10:15am Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 10:35pm
Camp332 wrote:
I would like to see the union happen for the riders. I also think that David Bailey would be a great consultant for you, GL, and...
I would like to see the union happen for the riders. I also think that David Bailey would be a great consultant for you, GL, and Reed, when it comes time for the details of setting up the union.
SH_105 wrote:
I agree a 100%! Bailey, Fonseca and James Marshall.... Thos are the ones who we need to listen to and understand what needs to be changed...
I agree a 100%! Bailey, Fonseca and James Marshall.... Thos are the ones who we need to listen to and understand what needs to be changed first hand!


105
I agree a 100%! Bailey, Fonseca and James Marshall...


Sean..... Dont leave Danny out of that equation... Before any of them there was Danny. This is a subject that Magoo has been talking about for years.
GuyB
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5/3/2010 10:15am
Hang on, I'm going to clean some dumb out of this thread. BRB.
SH_105
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5/3/2010 10:18am
GuyB wrote:
Hang on, I'm going to clean some dumb out of this thread. BRB.
Leave it, it gives this topic character!!


105
RACEGUY
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5/3/2010 10:19am
GuyB wrote:
Hang on, I'm going to clean some dumb out of this thread. BRB.
Most intelligent thing I've read in this thread in quite some time.

Clean away.
Camp332
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5/3/2010 10:24am Edited Date/Time 5/3/2010 10:26am
DB is an ambassador of our sport. His insight, from being involved in the sport for generations, and ability to speak insightfully about topics is what would make him a great consultant for the union. He was injured, yes, but that's not the top reason for me wanting him to help. I think he can convey key points, that nobody else sees, or they are afraid to bring up in certain company. The dude is a badass.
MxMouth
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5/3/2010 10:25am
GuyB wrote:
Hang on, I'm going to clean some dumb out of this thread. BRB.
txrider44
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5/3/2010 10:30am
What about looking into better helmet technology/testing? Anyone know which helmets McFarlane and Masterpool were wearing?

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