the supercross track builders are ruining the sport

crfby
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Edited Date/Time 1/22/2012 6:43pm
Year after year race after race i grow madder at the track builders/designers for the supercross tracks. when is somebody going to stand up and say, look at what is happening to our sport. when the top guys in the world can race on a track because the are crashing there brains out something is wrong. this year is just stupid. look at how many of the tops riders are hurt, but its not just that, the tracks are so difficult they just can race on them or pass on them. you can tell that even the best guys are riding around at the end cause they are so tired. thats not right when they can run full pace outdoors for 35 min. make the tracks easier with bigger wider corners, without a 70 foot triple landing 5 feet from the corner. it wont solve all injures but at least we would see some better racing. when guys got hurt in nascar look what they did, total change that is what our sport needs.
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Masonry
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4/18/2010 2:33pm
It isn't the tracks. The 450's are too powerful to race inside stadiums.
observer
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4/19/2010 1:04am
Masonry wrote:
It isn't the tracks. The 450's are too powerful to race inside stadiums.
I think it's both. Every year the tracks get more and more crazier. Hell it's a wonder they even achieve the speeds they do because the wheels are off the ground so much. I'd much rather see more technical, off camber stuff, more challenging terrain changes. Not jump after jump after jump...which is EXACTLYwhat SX has become.
Which, in turn, is what MOTOCROSS will eventually be confined to. Trust me...it's coming.
Old Mate
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4/19/2010 1:07am
Is it the tracks, i fear more injuries will happen outdoor this year!
Tiki
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Fantasy
4/19/2010 1:08am
Question before I answer any more stupid fucking lame ass posts on this forum.

How many people were on the track?
How many people successfully navigated the track error free?

Tracks fault or riders fault? Is is easier for you to point the finger at someone else because you lack the moral fortitude to accept errors and problems as your own?

The Shop

Old Mate
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4/19/2010 1:19am
Old Mate wrote:
Is it the tracks, i fear more injuries will happen outdoor this year!
Quote Hank! I hate to say it, but the outdoor series is going to be the same way this year, too.
Sparkalounger
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4/19/2010 6:13am
... because of the bikes, they are capable of SO much more these days, the whole package has evolved to be able to be pushed harder than ever.
Cygnus
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4/19/2010 6:18am Edited Date/Time 4/19/2010 6:29am
That corner that took out JS and CR at Phoenix was super dangerous. Lets get rid of the corners too.
track guy
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4/19/2010 6:26am
the sx promoters have the final say . the promoters want the crashes ! they sure advertise mostly crashes in every tv sx commercial . supercross promoters know crashes sell tickets and more tv audience . the tracks will continue to hurt riders for the benefit of those that are selling the entertainment .
4/19/2010 6:29am Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 10:14pm
Cygnus wrote:
That corner that took out JS and CR at Phoenix was super dangerous. Lets get rid of the corners too.
Jesus was racing? Wink I think you meant JBS. Nah just foolin, but that was one nasty corner.
4/19/2010 6:32am
If it was indeed JC (Jesus Christ) wouldn't he have been running the #2 plate?
Fuzion
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4/19/2010 6:35am
Canard tamed down Shorty's bike because he thought is was too powerful for him...
He still got holesots and was on the podium.

On the other side, Windham and Millsaps both like the big motors (and probably need it more than Canard because of their size).

The 250F could do that jump so I do not think thatit's because 450's are too powerful, I think it was just a dangerous jump. Reed called it...
4/19/2010 6:39am
track guy wrote:
the sx promoters have the final say . the promoters want the crashes ! they sure advertise mostly crashes in every tv sx commercial . supercross...
the sx promoters have the final say . the promoters want the crashes ! they sure advertise mostly crashes in every tv sx commercial . supercross promoters know crashes sell tickets and more tv audience . the tracks will continue to hurt riders for the benefit of those that are selling the entertainment .
Do you really think the promoters want crashes, want people injured, all in the name of making money?
Cygnus
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4/19/2010 6:42am Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 10:14pm



track guy
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4/19/2010 6:44am
track guy wrote:
the sx promoters have the final say . the promoters want the crashes ! they sure advertise mostly crashes in every tv sx commercial . supercross...
the sx promoters have the final say . the promoters want the crashes ! they sure advertise mostly crashes in every tv sx commercial . supercross promoters know crashes sell tickets and more tv audience . the tracks will continue to hurt riders for the benefit of those that are selling the entertainment .
Do you really think the promoters want crashes, want people injured, all in the name of making money?
go watch a supercross commercial . then ask yourself what is being sold.
Cygnus
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4/19/2010 6:46am
track guy wrote:
the sx promoters have the final say . the promoters want the crashes ! they sure advertise mostly crashes in every tv sx commercial . supercross...
the sx promoters have the final say . the promoters want the crashes ! they sure advertise mostly crashes in every tv sx commercial . supercross promoters know crashes sell tickets and more tv audience . the tracks will continue to hurt riders for the benefit of those that are selling the entertainment .
Do you really think the promoters want crashes, want people injured, all in the name of making money?
track guy wrote:
go watch a supercross commercial . then ask yourself what is being sold.
BIngo. I couldn't find the commercial so I posted the circus music instead.
Cygnus
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4/19/2010 6:47am Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 10:14pm
Been this way for a long time.




rileymx
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4/19/2010 6:48am
observer wrote:
I think it's both. Every year the tracks get more and more crazier. Hell it's a wonder they even achieve the speeds they do because the...
I think it's both. Every year the tracks get more and more crazier. Hell it's a wonder they even achieve the speeds they do because the wheels are off the ground so much. I'd much rather see more technical, off camber stuff, more challenging terrain changes. Not jump after jump after jump...which is EXACTLYwhat SX has become.
Which, in turn, is what MOTOCROSS will eventually be confined to. Trust me...it's coming.
reading your post makes me think you will like to see those endurocross races....!!!!!
supercross is what it is, jump after jump between tight turns inside a stadium to confortly receive huge crowds........its what made amasx the biggest series and the one with the most money available.........
i also think its the 450s that are too powerfull and heavy, the tracks only have to keep the best riders to the limit as they always did, i think the problem is that the 450s limit is too far out.........
everyone can see that the 250s are most times as fast as the 450s, also cairoli and ktm are showing the world its not about power.....so i think its there for everyone to see, 450s are most of all too heavy for mx/sx, being super powerfull is only the way to carry the weight..........i am now sure that the 350 is the way to go.....
Cygnus
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4/19/2010 6:49am
Notice how bad those 2 strokes pile drived the riders? I thought only 4 strokers did that.Tongue
4/19/2010 6:50am
track guy wrote:
the sx promoters have the final say . the promoters want the crashes ! they sure advertise mostly crashes in every tv sx commercial . supercross...
the sx promoters have the final say . the promoters want the crashes ! they sure advertise mostly crashes in every tv sx commercial . supercross promoters know crashes sell tickets and more tv audience . the tracks will continue to hurt riders for the benefit of those that are selling the entertainment .
Do you really think the promoters want crashes, want people injured, all in the name of making money?
track guy wrote:
go watch a supercross commercial . then ask yourself what is being sold.
I don't think that they want anyone to get hurt, but I respect your opinion as well. As far as the advertising, look at most ads out there, they are not true representations of their product, but an exxagerated story of something to make it appear better than it really is.
Hoov
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4/19/2010 6:54am
Fuzion wrote:
Canard tamed down Shorty's bike because he thought is was too powerful for him... He still got holesots and was on the podium. On the other...
Canard tamed down Shorty's bike because he thought is was too powerful for him...
He still got holesots and was on the podium.

On the other side, Windham and Millsaps both like the big motors (and probably need it more than Canard because of their size).

The 250F could do that jump so I do not think thatit's because 450's are too powerful, I think it was just a dangerous jump. Reed called it...
You are right. Reed tried to tell them it would "end in tears, or worse"...so they bring out a skid loader and knock off 6 inchs from the top of the landing, when they needed to bring out a dozer and take it down by half. A simple fix of that one jump landing would have made the track safer. But that is a call to be made by the floor manager "on the fly"...thats not happening this year. Im about done with supercross till someone is running it that uses common sense.
justmacd
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4/19/2010 7:01am
Keep in mind that it is at each every rider's discretion how they will attack the obstacles. If they feel a certain triple is too dangerous they can double single. It's slower of course but safer. If they feel they need to push their boundaries to stay competitive, well that's up to them too. They know its more dangerous and that the decision can bite them. But the point is, it's not the tracks, it's the riders and how far they want to push it.
Hoov
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4/19/2010 7:21am
justmacd wrote:
Keep in mind that it is at each every rider's discretion how they will attack the obstacles. If they feel a certain triple is too dangerous...
Keep in mind that it is at each every rider's discretion how they will attack the obstacles. If they feel a certain triple is too dangerous they can double single. It's slower of course but safer. If they feel they need to push their boundaries to stay competitive, well that's up to them too. They know its more dangerous and that the decision can bite them. But the point is, it's not the tracks, it's the riders and how far they want to push it.
This is true, but I come at this from a little different perspective. Having been involved in the building of many of these indoor tracks...I know that every track has a section in it that needs to be 'tweaked' to make it safer before the racing begins. The people I worked for wanted to have a challenging track, but they did NOT want ANY unsafe sections on the track...its a balancing act in a sport that is inherently dangerous to provide a challenging but safe track. My point is that we had people in charge that cared about the riders safety and would make intellegent decisions on the floor to make sure all that was possible was being done to make it safe.
4mxonly
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4/19/2010 7:22am
Tiki wrote:
Question before I answer any more stupid fucking lame ass posts on this forum. How many people were on the track? How many people successfully navigated...
Question before I answer any more stupid fucking lame ass posts on this forum.

How many people were on the track?
How many people successfully navigated the track error free?

Tracks fault or riders fault? Is is easier for you to point the finger at someone else because you lack the moral fortitude to accept errors and problems as your own?
Not that I agree or disagree with what you're saying Tiki, but just because, let's say (for argument's sake), 38 out of 40 riders "successfully navigated the track" doesn't mean that the track is "safe" and anyone who fails to ride the track safely, failed because they didn't properly assess the obstacles. That would be like saying, we threw 20 people into a tank with a hungry alligator, and Jim didn't make it out because he didn't swim fast enough, it's his fault he got eaten, and 19 out of 20 ain't bad. Someone was bound to get eaten because they were put in a dangerous situation. As Chad pointed out (and ironically predicted), the obstacle was dangerous, and someone was bound to get hurt. Obviously there is always going to be human error involved, but with the events that have unfolded, it's pretty clear that the obstacle was dangerous. The bottom line is that track builders (whether it's supercross or your local track) walk a fine line between safety and excitement, and as a few people have already pointed out, rider feedback and intuition is a powerful tool for finding that balance.
tang
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4/19/2010 7:57am Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 10:14pm
No need to make the tracks safer or de-tune the bikes. The AMA needs to make bear attack suits mandatory for all riders.




4/19/2010 7:59am
Cygnus wrote:
Notice how bad those 2 strokes pile drived the riders? I thought only 4 strokers did that.Tongue
Ya no shit.Laughing Imagine that, even back then riders crashed.Whistling
4/20/2010 12:43pm
track guy wrote:
the sx promoters have the final say . the promoters want the crashes ! they sure advertise mostly crashes in every tv sx commercial . supercross...
the sx promoters have the final say . the promoters want the crashes ! they sure advertise mostly crashes in every tv sx commercial . supercross promoters know crashes sell tickets and more tv audience . the tracks will continue to hurt riders for the benefit of those that are selling the entertainment .
Do you really think the promoters want crashes, want people injured, all in the name of making money?
track guy wrote:
go watch a supercross commercial . then ask yourself what is being sold.
Thanks for the invite to watch a supercross commercial and see for myself what they are selling. I recently took the opportunity to view the commercial for the upcoming Vegas race. The commercial didn't contain a single crash. It did however talk about last season the veterans dominated and this year the new breed being in the lead. If you see one that has some crash sequences let me know, I will be glad to review it also.
DanDunes818
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4/20/2010 12:56pm
track guy wrote:
the sx promoters have the final say . the promoters want the crashes ! they sure advertise mostly crashes in every tv sx commercial . supercross...
the sx promoters have the final say . the promoters want the crashes ! they sure advertise mostly crashes in every tv sx commercial . supercross promoters know crashes sell tickets and more tv audience . the tracks will continue to hurt riders for the benefit of those that are selling the entertainment .
Do you really think the promoters want crashes, want people injured, all in the name of making money?
The answer to that question is I think they could'nt give a shit either way. I seriously doubt anyone from feld goes to visit these guys in the hospital that's for damn sure.
Tiki
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4/20/2010 1:01pm
Tiki wrote:
Question before I answer any more stupid fucking lame ass posts on this forum. How many people were on the track? How many people successfully navigated...
Question before I answer any more stupid fucking lame ass posts on this forum.

How many people were on the track?
How many people successfully navigated the track error free?

Tracks fault or riders fault? Is is easier for you to point the finger at someone else because you lack the moral fortitude to accept errors and problems as your own?
4mxonly wrote:
Not that I agree or disagree with what you're saying Tiki, but just because, let's say (for argument's sake), 38 out of 40 riders "successfully navigated...
Not that I agree or disagree with what you're saying Tiki, but just because, let's say (for argument's sake), 38 out of 40 riders "successfully navigated the track" doesn't mean that the track is "safe" and anyone who fails to ride the track safely, failed because they didn't properly assess the obstacles. That would be like saying, we threw 20 people into a tank with a hungry alligator, and Jim didn't make it out because he didn't swim fast enough, it's his fault he got eaten, and 19 out of 20 ain't bad. Someone was bound to get eaten because they were put in a dangerous situation. As Chad pointed out (and ironically predicted), the obstacle was dangerous, and someone was bound to get hurt. Obviously there is always going to be human error involved, but with the events that have unfolded, it's pretty clear that the obstacle was dangerous. The bottom line is that track builders (whether it's supercross or your local track) walk a fine line between safety and excitement, and as a few people have already pointed out, rider feedback and intuition is a powerful tool for finding that balance.
Excellent argument 4MX
As pointed out in all other threads. The thing on the right that twists controls the safety of the rider 99.9% Aside from the 5 people here on vital that think the tracks are unsafe. The 15 people behind them that dont say anything, with the total of 3 that actually attend a race.

If the track were made flat no one would go. That is called dirt track racing not supercross. If you do not like the dangers, do not participate. Any reverse in track design would make the masses scream out rather then the 20.
4/20/2010 1:13pm
Tiki wrote:
Question before I answer any more stupid fucking lame ass posts on this forum. How many people were on the track? How many people successfully navigated...
Question before I answer any more stupid fucking lame ass posts on this forum.

How many people were on the track?
How many people successfully navigated the track error free?

Tracks fault or riders fault? Is is easier for you to point the finger at someone else because you lack the moral fortitude to accept errors and problems as your own?
4mxonly wrote:
Not that I agree or disagree with what you're saying Tiki, but just because, let's say (for argument's sake), 38 out of 40 riders "successfully navigated...
Not that I agree or disagree with what you're saying Tiki, but just because, let's say (for argument's sake), 38 out of 40 riders "successfully navigated the track" doesn't mean that the track is "safe" and anyone who fails to ride the track safely, failed because they didn't properly assess the obstacles. That would be like saying, we threw 20 people into a tank with a hungry alligator, and Jim didn't make it out because he didn't swim fast enough, it's his fault he got eaten, and 19 out of 20 ain't bad. Someone was bound to get eaten because they were put in a dangerous situation. As Chad pointed out (and ironically predicted), the obstacle was dangerous, and someone was bound to get hurt. Obviously there is always going to be human error involved, but with the events that have unfolded, it's pretty clear that the obstacle was dangerous. The bottom line is that track builders (whether it's supercross or your local track) walk a fine line between safety and excitement, and as a few people have already pointed out, rider feedback and intuition is a powerful tool for finding that balance.
Tiki wrote:
Excellent argument 4MX As pointed out in all other threads. The thing on the right that twists controls the safety of the rider 99.9% Aside from...
Excellent argument 4MX
As pointed out in all other threads. The thing on the right that twists controls the safety of the rider 99.9% Aside from the 5 people here on vital that think the tracks are unsafe. The 15 people behind them that dont say anything, with the total of 3 that actually attend a race.

If the track were made flat no one would go. That is called dirt track racing not supercross. If you do not like the dangers, do not participate. Any reverse in track design would make the masses scream out rather then the 20.
Safety is a good thing! There hasn't been a race all season without somebody getting injured in some way. Several of those happened on the starts with enough of a problem for a red flag. "Someone is bound to get eaten" because racing is a dangerous situation all by itself. How many times have you looked at a Supercross double or triple and thought about what would happen if someone made a mistake while committed to jumping that? The riders jumped the same jump a lap previous to their injury and others jumped it after their injury.
Tiki
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4/20/2010 1:17pm
"racing is a dangerous situation all by itself"

You answered your own question. What racing, in any form has not incurred an injury from any participants?

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