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Yeah, I can't remember shit. Too many drugs. But that's the one!
Of course many buyers are liars, that's the society we live in today. The dealer has tools to mostly expose the buyers lies. Doesn't stop stealers from making the sale in many cases.
However, there are endless cases of "predatory" behavior by dealers taking advantage of people who just don't know any better.
It's not just sales either.....service departments are notorious thieves too. Example: We had an older BMW that had to be taken to the dealer for smog software update. Mind you, there was nothing mechanically wrong with the car, no CELs and it had previously passed smog every time, the car was meticulously maintained and had 200K miles on it. The Cali smog-nazi rules changed regarding a stored hidden code and we had one of the "unicorn" affected model years. Smog ref found a TSB for the dealer to flash the ECM with updated software that would fix the issue. Smog ref said it had to be done at the dealer. The dealer charged us for the update but later found they NEVER did it. This sent us into another round of smog failures and trips to the smog ref. I can't tell you how much time I wasted because of these bastards. Oh....and they gave us a "repair estimate" of $4500.00 to assure us the car would pass smog. Finally, took the car to my indy mechanic and he found and proved that the ECM flash had never happened. I called the smog ref and he waived the requirement to have the dealer flash the ECU when he found out what had happened. My indy flashed the ECM for free, car passed smog no issues.
I've got so many stealership sales and service horror stories across these brands.....
Chevrolet
Honda
Infiniti
BMW
The universally beloved Magoofan has bad dealer experiences...
Color me shocked.
As you know ,one benefit about being a successful "car guy" is our ability to determine a genuine Asshole immediately and treat them accordingly...............
The Shop
DeCal Works Huge Plastic Inventory of UFO and Polisport kits.
Luxon 4-Post Bar Mounts
$189.95 - $239.95
I've definitely bought more car than I could afford...my bad. I figured out pretty quick to say "no" to the junk...extended warranties, free anything, etc. I can deal with the salespeople pretty easy nowadays.
I will say there still exists a problem on the service side especially towards women. My daughter calls me to confirm everything they say.
Same. No to the junk and extended warranties. What gets me is dealers are adding all this crap to the vehicles with a separate sticker...insane prices for stupid things. Most of the time you can't get a vehicle without these add ons.
It's not just the women who are getting taken. 28 year old Nephew of mine (my brother in laws kid) gets taken left and right. The kid isn't stupid, he just has no mechanical sense and trusts these places to do the right thing. Won't do research and won't ask questions. I tried to help him out last time he needed work done, but he got taken anyway.
I hate going in to buy vehicles....you gotta go in letting them know up front you're not gonna stand for any BS and you gotta be prepared to walk when they eventually pull their shit anyway.
Tell me Einstein. What about my shared experience above could be blamed on your perception of who I am?
Well there's certainly a common denominator in all of your bad experiences there chief, and that's you. Including myself, there are auto-business people trying to actively help sumdood, but you're here insisting that we're all scum. But I'm sure you've never let you opinions shade your treatment of dealer employees, right?
Also, you definitely have an arrogant holier than thou persona on this forum that I have little doubt you carry with you throughout your life. Constantly raging at all the perceived injustices against you but yet unwilling to look at your own culpability in the matter. I'm sure if you found yourself in the situation that sumdood's son is in, you very well would lawyer up and walk in to the dealer and proceed to have them shit down your throat. Even in your last post "You gotta walk in and let them know you're not gonna take any shit." No fucking wonder they love fucking you in the ass.
Exactly my point I made above. Just like animals have sense of danger ,us car guys can spot a dickhead before they get in the door……especially easy if they announce it like I’m sure he does,LMFAO. That dude never ceases to amaze me with his ridiculous bullshit. He needs to put new tires on his 98 Pontiac and keep rolling on down the road and out of here
Nice sidestep on the question I asked you. ...and more "perception" drivel. Why am I not surprised. Funny why the overwhelming majority of bad customer experiences throughout my life have been with car dealers.
Walking into a dealer and letting them know you're not going to take any shit isn't disrespectful. It's just letting them know you aren't a mark. They're reading you from the get go, trying to figure how they can pinch you for everything they can. I treat people employees of any business with respect....until you try to screw me or mine.
Too many of my own experiences and too many family/friends and acquaintances stories who have the exact same view of dealerships spanning decades.
Pretty comfortable in saying I'm far from alone here.
Carry on with your BS, it's what you guys do best.
I have a hard time believing you. Even the idea that you need assert that you’re not a “mark” is ridiculous. It isn’t 1985 and I don’t take you for some poor fool with 350 credit score that’s literally taken advantage of by every industry.
You keep talking about “perception.” What am I supposed to perceive from your BMW story? They didn’t do the service? And you could prove it? Why wouldn’t you take that proof to the dealer and demand the ECM update get performed, or even get your money back? Also sounds like a situation where you could actually get a lawyer involved. But instead you want me to believe that you got an emissions inspector to waive their rules and let an independent do it? Regarding the $4500 in quoted work, well that sure seems like it would bolster a lawsuit. Why arent you rich from the judgement?
I think you’re the one making stuff up there pal. Just like every other person who walks into dealerships, body shops, and repair facilities all the time. You come in with the “perception” that we’re scum and whether or not you realize it, we pick up on it. And I promise you for every story you have from you and everyone you know I or OldPro have one of customers trying to get over on us, ranging from paint pens that “don’t work” up to complete false identities and cars stolen on test rides, and that’s just the past two years.
And regarding your nephew, not everyone is taking advantage of you all the time. When was the last time you bought a drum of oil? Or even a 5QT bottle of 507.00 approved 5W40. Or even considered that every manufacturer has different oil standards that large shops and dealers have to use, because believe me if a motor seizes after it goes through our shop and we didn’t use approved oil, we’re buying a new motor. Oil changes aren’t $40 dollars anymore. But what in this world is cheaper now than it was 5 years ago? And of course there are cheaper options than the dealer. Probably because they don’t have a 30 bay shop to maintain. They probably don’t have the latest equipment required by manufacturers to work on the vehicles they make. They probably don’t have to deal with OSHA and the mandatory fire cabinets and compliance officers. Of course the mom and pop shop can do stuff cheaper.
But beyond all of that, if your nephew or anyone else wants to be a uniformed shopper in 2024 and beyond, that’s 100% on them. Because the reality is that bad businesses can only exist and operate with the help of uninformed customers. And if you don’t like a business or car dealer in this case, move along.
But you did get it right man, I do have an “image” of you, or a “perception.” But it ain’t the media making you look the way you do to me or anyone else. Other users in here aren’t sending out secret newsletters painting you as I perceive you.
This thread reminds me of a scene from a different 80s movie.
I’ve worked in some doozies. Worst one was a Nissan store with a GM who was a felon.
Worst conman I ever saw was a service writer.
I’m not saying they don’t exist and that it doesn’t happen…….
We’ve been in the same location for 35+ years, and I estimate that I’ve sold over 15,000 cars myself personally, much higher number for the rest of the store obviously . Our advertising budget is almost nil,as we thrive on ridiculous amounts of repeat and referral business. I’ve sold some families over 30 vehicles from the parents,to their kids, to their grand kids and extended families. Pretty damn good for a bunch of crooks,thieves,liars and scumbags .
One large benefit of being an independent Dealer, is that we can ( and do) refuse to deal with anyone that comes in with a dickhead attitude,although we don’t run into many anymore because of the sterling reputation we have earned over the years .
It really must be a sad,sad life to be so caustic ,accusatory and paranoid .
For what it’s worth, Sumdood and I have emailed each other, as I am definitely trying to get to the bottom of how this issue began ,and who was responsible to be able to steer them in the right direction for a reasonable resolution. I’m sorry to breakout of that “Scum of the Earth” personna that you put all of us 60 hour/week car guys in, but you need to stop your bullshit. Maybe consider getting therapy, if you can find one that’s not out to “get you “. LMFAO
I can see both sides of what you guys are saying. As a dealer you get shitty customers that try to get the most $$s for their piece of shit trade in and lie through their teeth. But the dealers have also spent many 10s of thousands of $$s in studying potential buyers to get the most dollars out of them. Buyer says dealer is shady, dealer says buyer is a dick. It's the dealers job to get the highest profit, it's the buyers job to spend as little as possible. There's not many sales folk that'll say, we don't need to make that much money and not many people that'll say I have too much money, here's more.
I think that about sums it up.
TM
The General Manager was a felon.....why does this not surprise me.
This. I don't need a $1,500 "warranty" that never pays out, magic air in the tires, or $500 plastic stickers on the edges of my doors. I can spray my own damn Scotchgard for $25.
The one reason i would buy an extended warranty is if I buy the first or second year of a model re-design. Seems like there is always a few bugs that need worked out.
My wife got her monies worth and then some on the extended warranty she bought for her 2005 Pathfinder, the first year of a re-design. We love the car otherwise and if i was in the market and could find one with under 100k miles I wouldn't hesitate to buy a used 08-11 Pathy.
I have a 2010 Colorado thats been great, but I know that first year, the 2004, had a bunch of electrical gremlins. Again, i think the 09-12 Colorados are a good used pickup.
Pit Row
I bought a 2011 Ram 3 years ago with low miles . Of course they try to sell me a warranty and as always I turn it down but they of course keep lowering the price of the warranty lol . When it got down to about 20 bucks more than the original payment I relent and do it . Fast forward a year , broken valve spring , motor is junk . I get a new long block so essentially a new motor and it doesn't cost me a dime . 10 grand worth of parts and labor . I probably would have just walked away from the truck without that warranty credit be damned . I'm not saying they're always a good deal but in this case I'm glad I had it . The truck is still running strong although I probably wouldn't buy another Ram .
LMAO.....looks like my response to one of the spin-doctors on here was deleted. Guess it hit too close to home.
Cost of a barrel of oil, service bays and the cherry on top of the cake "uniformed customers" are all justification for screwing people over.
Yet somehow, I'm the one making shit up. I've got documentation proof of the one experience I shared previously.
1. Multiple smog checks (due to the run around caused by the dealers lies)
2. Smog Ref paperwork (one which provided the TSB for the dealer to update the ECM/DME software)
3. Dealership service order for update of ECM/DME software. (BTW - It turns out the TSB should have been covered for free by the dealership under federal law. This, I was unaware of until later talking with the BAR....but the dealership charged us anyway)
4. Factory BMW trained Independent Shop service order for ACTUAL update of ECM/DME software with wording showing ECM/DME had not been updated by dealer. (which they did for free because we're good customers)
5. Complaint submission to the Bureau of Automotive Repair and letter to BMW N.A. reporting the dealership for fraud.
Oh yes, we got our money back. Dealership service writer called my indy shop owner (who as it turns out knew each other). Only then, after they got caught lying and then coming up with a incredulous "repair estimate" did the dealer apologize and reimburse us.
The amount we were charged was for 1.5 hours, not a lot of money. It's the time and frustration they cost me by lying, not to mention the TSB should have been taken care of free (fed emissions law) No doubt the multi-thousand dollar smog repair estimate was an attempt to get us to purchase a newer car even though our car was in immaculate condition and well maintained. This is another one of the tactics employed by dealerships to bilk people. There's actually a dealership discussion on another board I frequent right now where this very thing had been done to some elderly folks....
An elderly couple with a car of a few years old but very low mileage, came in for an oil change, the service writer came up with all kinds of services that the car "needed", totaling in the thousands. Then he brought in the "honest" salesman who would tell them maybe it's better to trade their car in on a new one rather than pour more money into their "old" car
Ripping off old people is one of the sickest crimes of all.
I've got stories where I was screwed over and also stories where I was well taken care of. Some of it could be dishonest mechanic? Bought a used Honda civic. After I put on about 100k I had an issue. Took it to the dealer. Dealer said that never goes bad. He called district rep, they fixed the car for free. Years later, I went straight to them to buy my wife a Pilot. After a few years paint started to look funny. I asked for a meeting with district rep. Told him how happy I am with Honda and the dealership and could he do anything, out of warranty. Without a question he said we usually work with xyz company, are you OK with letting them repaint it? Me, thank you Mr district rep!
Motorhome, took into Ford dealer for new power steering pump. Claimed they replaced it but didn't actually replace it. Sent me on my way with original pump. Took it back and said you must have replaced it with a defective pump. Same problem, you'll have to do it again. Pain in the ass but that time they actually fixed it.
Hey Oldpro I have the vin but the message feature on my work phone has been a spinning circle for longer than I have patience for right now, I’ll send it from my laptop when I get home
Well todays the day (or was the day...) As of ten minutes ago "We haven't heard back from the DMV yet so don't have any information" Fuck em. We're getting an auto fraud attorney. Thanks for the info OldPro ! At this point he wants every single penny he's spent on that truck back, aside from gas. Payments, interest, insurance, all of it. Plus any legal fees obviously. Never mind the aggravation and fact that the truck is also his lively hood. Anyway that's where it's headed unless they agree to write the check for the number he wants. He's about 16K out of pocket. If it does go further I told him to call the news channels and watchdog groups as well. Another thing is, when he's between trucks he'll be using mine, which means I'll be out income in the meantime too. I was mad before, now I'm getting fucking pissed
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. IMO yall have been more than patient. They’ve had plenty of opportunity to rectify the situation.
Don’t forget loss of “consortium”. Look it up, I’ll wait! 🤣
You have a bunch of other irrational posts in this thread but I'll quote this one due to you writing "it's a known fact". This is your experience, not facts.
I bought my last truck brand new, the salesman was a good dude and I made the purchase. Yes, they tried to sell me all the extras and I respectfully declined. Yes, they tried to give me pennies for my old truck but I walked out after I told them I wanted more than double what they offered me and they said no. The salesman literally came out to the parking lot and asked me if I'd come back in and make the purchase if they agreed on my trade in price and we did.
I feel pretty confident that TooTallJason hit the nail on the head, not surprised by your experiences.
Also, not sure why people would downvote the OP off the bat, must be Toyota super fans.
Hmmmm ... it has been very traumatic
“Do you think I’m stupid”?
”We had to check”! 🤣
But yet you show up with a new username every few months if you are not doing time in the county lockup, but you call the dealers felons and conmen, Takes one to know one I guess.
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