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This takes me back to my previous post. We don`t have a choice. All countries neighboring Russia want nothing to do with them. Even Finland and Sweden joined NATO to have some sort of protection. Russia been doing this shit since 90`s. Moldova, Chechnya, Georgia, Ukraine. Putin want`s to die as a man who restored Russian empire. He`s the richest man in the world. It`s not about money, it`s about his legacy. He want`s to beat Peter the great.
We live in different worlds. You have no idea how good you have it.
I do have an understanding of how good I have it - it is clear to me every day.
If Putin is as obsessed as he is, what do you think is a better option - diplomatic solutions, or World War 3 with very likely nuclear strikes?
If there is no diplomatic option out of this mess, then our current living conditions won't matter anymore.
Unfortunately for you kongals, your country and people are nothing more the cannon fodder to the US military industrial complex, which basically acts as the strong arm for international corporate interests (E.g. Blackrock and Vanguard). Seeing how the situation for you and your family is very close to a life or death one (if not in terms of actual life, than at the very least in terms of way of life) I can completely understand and empathize with your black/white, right/wrong, good guys/bad guys viewpoint on the matter. But you should at least come to terms with, and be mindful of the fact that the American government are not the “good guys”. (I just want to be clear that by me saying that the American government are not the good guys, I am not by consequence saying that the Russian government is the good guys. The Russian government is most definitely bad)
You, boomslang, and I think many other people from outside the US look upon us with rose colored glasses because; yes the American people most definitely do display such a vast amount of material wealth and “freedoms” compared to other peoples of the world that it’s completely understandable why you would be envious of us. But please keep in mind that while Americans may be rich in material wealth, we are without a doubt the sickest, most unhealthy, morally lacking, ethically corrupt, most jailed per capita, perverse, virtueless, and just generally completely void of common sense peoples on earth.
If you are going to go down fighting kongals (or you too boom) do it for yourself, your identity and your dignity. Don’t do it in the name of the American Dream. Also, don’t take this as a dig at either of you two guys either. I wouldn’t have spent the last 30 minutes typing this if I didn’t care.
I do apologize Kongols as I am not in any way trying to imply you and your country and fellow country folks are not worth saving. Of course you are, but don't think the US government thinks the same way. I hope and pray however this turns out that you and your family are safe.
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So, no one recalls when Russia was promised that Ukraine wouldn’t be brought into NATO…which was a Russian “line in the sand” many, many years…ago?
Do we know the history?
This has been a 20-30 year shit show in the making.
I’m truly getting a kick outta lefties flexing like they’re war hawks or some shit. They completely fucked up the AFG exit that reinvigorated ISIS…they’ve thrown BILLIONS at the Ukraine and now they’re getting all mealy mouthed about Israel.
Lefties have the audacity to open their mouths about defense spending while giving our defense resources and funding to their pet causes. Crazier still…they tie Ukraine, The Border Debacle of Joe’s Making and Israel TOGETHER in one bill.
So, the left is gonna have to forgive us as we ridicule them for the hypocrisy and fake concern.
I’ve looked everywhere for a definitive answer but never seen an actual promise, treaty, or even a pinky swear about Ukraine joining NATO. Can you elaborate upon that promise?
https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/russia-programs/2017-12-12/nato-expansion-what-gorbachev-heard-western-leaders-early
You’ve not looked too hard…going all the way back to the wall coming down…there were diplomatic understandings between OUR administrations and theirs…
Look harder. You’ll be intrigued.
Even the Ukrainian Orange Revolution involves our complete and at times tacit fuckery.
Those conversations happened when the US and Nato were wrongly convinced that Russia was now going to play nice. Whatever Baker said about "not one inch Eastward" was contingent upon Russian assurances that they would not attempt to regain lost territories by force.
It doesn't really matter though. Putin is terrified of Nato and whether or not there was an agreement 30 years ago, it's his line in the sand now. That's what matters.
What the fuck is the Biden administration thinking?
If we take a step back and look at what Reagan and Gorbachev set out to accomplish…& take Baker and those that came after them at their word…(on both sides, btw)…well…
We’ve pressed the Russians at all the wrong times and places. While I’ve got pllllenty of Cold War Era “Fuck’em!” when it comes to those Soviet Fucks!!! Well, in the end…aren’t we supposed to be the ones that take the High Road? We sure as fuck haven’t on this issue.
If you look at all our New World Order Fuckery when it comes to Ukraine and our outright lying to the Russians…? We fucked up the end game. Again.
That's a good point about the only thing that matters now is the current line in the sand.
Expanding NATO means expanding NATO defense specifications. Which means NATO countries buy more from US defense contractors. The people who own those are wealthy and powerful and want more. Global tension and war benefit them greatly. Many politicians on both sides are under great influence from the folks. Biden is not thinking - he's doing as he's told.
Funny. You posted some great stuff. I wish more folks were familiar with this era. It changed my life and allowed me to travel and see (and count) weapons I still can’t believe I saw and counted as part of my job. “Trust but verify” wasn’t just a saying. It became an actual policy. Reagan pulled a Russian hat-trick out of his ass and used their proverb (Russian) as the means to create a weapons verification policy that was unthinkable until he and Gorbachev made it happen.
The Geneva Summit, The Reykjavík Summit…while those 2 events were just diplomatic gatherings that didn’t yield much…both led to some amazing weapons agreements and reductions down the line: START I, START II & New START.
There’s a lot of history there.
Btw, if I’m not mistaken…Raegan 1st proposed the basic START ideology in 1982.
Looks like we talking different languages.
Everything has it`s price. Nobody here thinks USA is a prince on a white horse.
But I and many around here will take western flaws over russian shit any day of the week. You`re talking power, I`m talking lives of millions it affects. Fuck russia, they never keep their word, never has.
Your feelings are understandable but cannot be backed by historical evidence. When Germany reunited NATO and western nations had a solid agreement with the then Russian administration that there would be no NATO nations at a certain point Eastward in Europe. NATO soon broke those agreements, most recently with Sweden and Finland. How would America react if Canada or Mexico became a Warsaw pact nation? What was the reaction when Cuba got missiles? Add to the fact that there are many Russians alive who remember invasion and the loss of 20% of their total population in a major war, with huge areas of their land still littered with war debris and unburied dead from that conflict, surely you can understand that nations problem with enemy nations on their border. I can't imagine how the citizen's of that nation felt when Leopard tanks were recently deployed against their soldiers. As what is going on in Gaza right now, we Americans only look at these conflicts from American eyes with what are bullshit media and education system feeds us.
We face a bleak future and from what I can see It's only a matter of time before the next big one kicks off.
I wish you and your family all the best Kongols.
I also think most people forget that when you are in NATO you are also implementing American pharmaceutical companies as the path forward. Drugs, arms, and energy are still the key to countries control.
A couple of important points here.
The discussions referenced in the link are with the USSR not the country of Russia. The USSR dissolved. The expansion of NATO was never addressed in any treaty, even with the USSR, outside of the agreement for the unification of Germany that held that there wouldn’t be non-German NATO troops permanently stationed in what had been East Germany. Even that provision became moot when the USSR was no longer an entity.
NATO’s ‘threat’ to Russia is very easy to understand. NATO has always been a defensive agreement, not an agreement to act offensively. The only danger that NATO would historically present to Russia is if Russia were looking to conduct offensive war against a NATO member state. That makes their current and future intentions more than obvious to any rational observer.
So again, there were no agreements with Russia about NATO membership for other countries, and Russia knows that it needed to invade Ukraine before Ukraine could join a mutual defense agreement, not because that mutual defense agreement posed any historical threat to invade Russia.
Pit Row
NATO has always been a defensive agreement, not an agreement to act offensively. The only danger that NATO would historically present to Russia is if Russia were looking to conduct offensive war against a NATO member state. That makes their current and future intentions more than obvious to any rational observer.
Blows my mind how many here cannot grasp this. Don’t invade sovereign nations and make peace with your neighbors and you’ve got nothing to worry about.
So it's not comprehensible or understandable that Russia wouldn't want enemies and invaders from recent history directly at their border?
lol NATO defense only……….man some of y’all are in a pipe dream
I'll just leave this here...
This statistic is looking like another government manipulated number to make for a real warm-and-fuzzy headline, just like GDP, job reports etc:
https://blog.gorozen.com/blog/is-us-oil-production-surging
It is , but it’s also comprehensible that Putin just wants control of those countries on Russia’s borders .
Seems to me Russia expected it to remain.
Russia not invading Ukraine was part of the deal as well,
It sure was, and that was AFTER the United States developed 50 more basses right on the Russian/Ukraine border. Why is it that the US started pooping military bases out right on the border for years before the Ukrainian war? Why did our CIA blow up the pipeline and use private military for proxy wars to poke the Russian bear? All of this information is out in the open and yet our normal war mongering politicians and media push the narrative that it was all Russias fault. Why didn’t Zelensky do an interview with Tucker? He was asked and said no. So we have zero transparency, we have hundreds of billions sent abroad while people here are suffering.
Are we actually discussing political events without savaging one another? 🤔
TM
I reckon the most imminent escalating threat is an Iranian proxy doing something that prompts a severe reaction from Israel.
The rich and powerful in Russia/Iran/China/Korea, or any where don't want to die. Wars are fought by the expendable. I don't see nukes being used unless every country let's loose at once.
Edit...unless AI gets involved. Hey, I just had a great idea for a movie.
Elon's thoughts on this,
"Responding to a tweet about Blinken’s comments, Musk replied: “This is literally how the nuclear apocalypse movie starts.”"
Post a reply to: Get ready for nukes in Europe from Russia