Is Too Much Emphasis Placed on Bike Setup? Pro or Weekend Warrior

Yes.

I like how RV put it on the last Title 24 show, Chase needs to stop putting the team and bike under the bus and just ride faster.

I think as your skills progress, the bike setup does play a part but I also think the riders get too particular and use it as a crutch.

I remember RC saying the same thing, get close, then stop adjusting the suspension and adapt your riding. Constant searching for something you may never find will only slow you sown. Get use to what the bike is doing then you know what to expect. (I think he said it during the nationals).

I think I'm pretty savvy and systematic with bike setup as a 40+ weekend warrior.
...Notebooks going back more than a decade with settings and observations...  Shim stacks, jetting, maps, sprockets, etc.

Initially, when I buy a new bike I go through and test different settings back to back on the same day / same track to find what I like best.   I'm currently in that process with a GasGas MC350F.

After initially setting up a bike I just ride it and adapt to the conditions by adjusting body position and timing.

We have a wide range of conditions up here in the pacific northwest.
When I get to the track, I rarely touch a clicker unless the bike feels off or I have an established setting for that track.
My weight varies about six to ten pounds between summer and winter, so I adjust my sag if the bike doesn't enter corners the way I expect. 

I have friends who make multiple changes before they even get out on the track without keeping track of anything.  They often get completely lost on setup and come back after a few laps to change multiple other settings at the same time.

I want a predictable / consistent setting rather than a guessing game.   I tried every setting when I bought the bike and settled on something neutral that works well almost everywhere.  Why try to duplicate that testing on a race day?

Yes. 
but it’s a convenient excuse for riders who aren’t winning and fans of those riders. 
 

Two things.. we ride on dirt. Moisture levels are rarely the same. So grip is rarely the same from one Moto to the next. Then bumps.. no two motos are the same. 
 

And lack of accountability for getting the wrong setting- the riders have thousands and thousands of hours riding time. They’ve ridden bad set ups and good setups- they’re professionals in their field- they should know what adjustments it needs. 
Then the same apply for the team- thousands and thousands of laps, a firm ‘base’ setup and lots of data to say what doesn’t work as well as what does work. 
so any setup issue really is inexcusable from both parties. 
 

But what about the excuse?

To that note, maybe some riders are just really bad at explaining what theyre feeling and the mechanics arent able to give them the correct fixes as a result. I dont remember the podcast, but recently they talked about how the aussie kid is actually very good at explaining what feels good/bad and what theyre experiencing and as a result the techs can do exactly what is needed to give him the proper setup.

But yeah, as a weekend warrior I just respring the bike, find a good overall setting for my clickers and then run that setting pretty much 247. I find playing with tire air pressure has given more noticeable changes on the track, IMO so thats basically the only thing Ill adjust at the track.

I don't know if it would work with today's tracks, but I remember reading JMB kept the same setup for SX and MX and just adjusted his riding to it. 

It's quite personal I think, even without being at a high skill level.

Some people can haul ass with a bike which is terribly setup and not being particularly bothered by it.

Some people can have something fairly trivial be a little off and feel quite uncomfortable on the bike.

What portion of this is a mental problem or a real problem is another matter.

As are elite pro riders, I expect the above applies to them too, but with how fast they go and how hard they push I bet minor setup issues highlight themselves very quickly to guys who are sensitive to setup.

I don't know what those dudes are bitchin about with their multi million dollar programs. If my bike doesn't swap on acceleration bumps, headshake through chatter, bottom on OJs and isn't 2x4 stiff on braking bumps i just ride the fuckin thing. These dudes have the literal best of the best suspension/chassis techs at their fingertips, ride every day for hours and after 6 months of this your still searching? Pathetic 

I'd be a terrible test rider. I finished a ride and my buddy had to tell me about my flat rear. picked up a nail likely under a train trestle miles back... had no idea.

Yes but you know what, that comes from the guy that required the most unique setup in history to be able to go fast. 

And if you go back and listen to their time, they had the same complaints as riders today. Chassi setup, tires they could not stand, balance issues, kyb vs showa preference.

Look at Jett first ride last year SMX. Got the suspension wrong so he couldn't ride according to himself. Put him back on that setup today, and he ain't winning.

There is no top rider for the last 10 years, that could win when he wasn't on a close to optimal/perfect setup.

Specially today, competition is way to high. Someone else will always be at that perfect setup, and then you are fucked.

People here sitting and saying they are pathetic they cant figure it out, please. We are talking about a 0.4sec per lap being the difference in pace. Details matter.

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This.

When you're talking about hundredths of a second per lap separating the top riders, every little thing matters, whether it's quantifiable or perceived.

The riders go to the start line very very close to their chosen ‘base’ set up which they will be very comfortable with on any given day on any given track. 
 

Yes, details and that 0.1% matter. 
but…. A far far bigger variable than a few clicker changes is the rider’s mindset. Thus, that 0.1% is negligible. 

99% of the guys I ride with that complain about bike setup have some of the worst riding technique and athleticism. No bike setup or parts are going to drop lap times if you don’t learn how to use your body to make both ends of the bike work. You tell some people “Well no shit your front is pushing, you’re sitting on the back of the seat the whole way around the corner” and they look at you like you’re the stupid one as they’re adjusting their fork height in the clamps for the third time at the track that day. 

Ha!   this is so true.  The one variable that cannot be adjusted or clicked is the rider's ineptitude.  Fork and shock can be dialed but if the pilot is clueless it doesn't matter.

When I was racing a lot, like every weekend, I kept notes for the different tracks with baseline settings.  There were only 7-8 each summer so it wasn't a lot of work, but good information.  The only one that required a lot attention to settings was Millville, the rest of the tracks were pretty mild, natural terrain, and a few clicks were enough. 

National Pro?  Probably not...those guys are all looking for every tenth they can find, and its not their technique or fitness holding them back.

For local pro's, and certainly for your average A, B, C, D racers and weekend warriors...there is ABSOLUTELY way to much emphasis placed on bike set up and upgrades...its honestly comical to me how much the average rider cares about bike set up...Riding around like a full on goon, 20 lbs over weight, with no core strength and no leg strength...but blaming their suspension for the bike not handling perfect...Absolutely have to have that titanium pipe on that 450 or they'll lose the race...need those aftermarket triple clamps...have to have a specific grip or they get arm pump...can ride with this particular brand of tire, I have to have the blank tire in this specific size...blah blah blah...its comedy. 

There is no way mindset takes a rider with a poor setup, or a setup not in the perfect window, and converts that's into winning.

Sorry, but there is no one for the last maybe even 15 years that has been able to pull that off.

Cooper Webb, is maybe the mentally toughest rider we have had for the last what 6 years in 450? He ain't pulling it off. So to sit and say that they should "just ride", doesn't work. Would have been plenty of examples if that was even remotely applicable.

Grant Langston was the last rider that was claimed to be able to win on pretty much anything.

The speed at that time is not comparable. Time qualifications, it could be 2 sec difference between Stewart, Reed and DV in qualification when they where 1,2,3.

If there is 0.5sec diff in time practice today, that's a lot. More often it's a 0,2-0.4 separating maybe even top 5. 2 sec? That's top 10-12.

for me personally?  I'd be an awful test rider...I just ride the bike...rarely check sag, run whatever tires are cheapest, never adjust the clickers, don't care about what grips I run, or triple clamps or bar position, or handlebars, or where my levers are...I just ride the bike. 

I'm currently running Tusk Recon Hybrid tires, EVERYWHERE...I just did a sand race sprint enduro with them last Saturday (finished 6th out of 20 in 40+ A...62nd out of 320+ overall)...people see Tusk tires and I constantly here "those tires suck" "how do ride with those tires here?", etc. etc.  I couldn't care less...(and I almost always beat those people...lol)

I'm old, and getting slower every year...but still mid-pack 40+ A locally in the desert...and its my fitness not my bike holding me back...that race saturday 25 mile loop 3 times, with three tests each loop (9 total tests)...my scores got slower every loop...because I'm out of shape, not because I wasn't running the right tires/suspension/triple clamps/etc. etc. (I was 2nd or 3rd in class on each test on loop 1...and it was all down hill from there. and finished 6th lol) 

I thought it was interesting to hear MC speak to this a bit during PulpMX Show 500 awhile back. Once he found a setting in the off season he'd run it all year. Yes, he'd maybe try a few things throughout, but always ended up back with what he was familiar with because he knew what the bike would do.

I believe RC has said on multiple occasions he'd just setup for whoops and he'd figure out the rest on his own.

Perhaps a lot of the mental these days are riders focusing so much at what section a bike isn't as good in when its perfect everywhere else on the track. So, is that last 1% the bike or them?

For top level professionals I think you are correct.
Evidence in qualifying sessions where most of or all of the top ten are on the same second.


At the local amateur race, skill level, fitness and mindset are far more important than the bike.
This is evidenced by the fact that occasionally a guy can win the 30+ or 40+ class on a two stroke 125.

Totally agree on needing to be honest about what is technique and what is the bike.

Seems like a lot of the people messing with the bike at the track make things worse and show up next month with cone valves and a traxx shock...

Equipment blamers really annoy me personally it doesn't matter what discipline it is, Our sport is pretty much the only Motorsport that Rider/Driver have the most say in how they perform. Ricky won on every bike he rode, James did too it's all about the rider, I believe a bigger factor is comfort within a team/personal and training programs.

I do believe you can prefer a bikes riding characteristics and feel, I don't know how these riders chose what factory team they chose to go to but if a factory team is giving a prospect a factory bike to test out I think that's a bit silly, maybe in stock form will give a rider better judgement on the bikes characteristics and go from there.

Chase is a good example of this yes obviously he left Honda mainly because he isn't the top dog but he was blaming the bike at Honda had other options to go elsewhere and landed at KTM because of the bike now he complaining about the bike there, the way he rides is putting heavy load on the pegs and demanding a lot out of the bike hence the amount of times he washed the front or got pitched off the bike violently that's a him problem not the bike problem, in theory it makes sense why he chose KTM for the stiffer frame he would be able to load the bike more without it pitching him off,

I believe Chase is starting to get it now, I do see different riding style from him, he still is fast as shit he's around 90% of where he was compared to the Honda but the difference is he barely goes down which is a big accomplishment for him.

But yeah equipment blamers are my pet peeve, I grew up riding what I was given as my Dad's only knowledge on bikes was keeping the thing running, he never setup or didnt even know you could set up the bike differently, he refused to mod the bike as his belief was the manufactures designed it this way for reason and fair enough, the amount of times I've had friends or friends of friends who have just started riding and start messing and buying things for the bike because they aren't fast is a joke.

In short, if you don't blame the bike the only thing you have to worry about is you and your riding, it eliminates a lot of headaches.