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This probably a question for real insiders, but how much did Pro Circuit Kawasaki hurt the HRC Honda program by signing their engine builder. The one who was in charge of the CRF250 rockets 🚀 the past years? And also how much did it help Pro Circuit Kawasaki, because they are winning again and fighting for holeshots again.
I would have hired Stars motor guy. That being said, hiring anyone with factory IC knowledge will obviously help. But I wouldn't insinuate that PC doesn't have info on Factory Kawasaki motors, especially knowing the relationship with Mitch.
stars 250 engines have to be the benchmark for the last 3-4 years imho...
Ryan Cox definitely played a significant role in improving HRC's engine program, I think he left in 2022 so its hard to know if HRC is still improving the engine and finding significant gains or if they're riding the momentum of what they found while Cox was with them. PC definitely found something around Southwick this past year, seems like riders weren't happy with the chassis though, Jo especially. HRC's engines improved greatly the past couple years, but they weren't rocket ships by any means, probably like the 3rd or 4h best engine in recent years.
Star's engines aren't the best becasuse their engine guy is just the best ever, they're the best because the base platform is insane and best on the market to begin with. Having Star's budget helps as well.
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It's kind of apples and oranges. Not like Suspension guys. I mean it's some help, I guess. But different cylinders and lowers and all that. Pro Circuit is loaded with a very skilled group of techs who know motor work and testing. And there's Mitch, who's extremely sharp LOL . Plus, Factory Kawasaki. But teams lure away good people from other teams for a inhouse improvement in staff for attitude and knowledge etc. And a top motor guy might be just done with the rough commuting you have in California and another shop is closer etc. I don't feel its anything like Star getting the best KYB/Suspension guy in the world from the OEM like they did with Gilly. But maybe I'm wrong on the motor aspect.
The chassis was rigid for sure, Joe wasn't the only one complaining. The one that was scaring them was the crank, there were two injuries due to failure.
What was going on with the crank? Rod failing?
I don't know what they found,but it's working ! Things break when you keep pushing limits. Can you imagine being the guy who tells Mitch you want to try some smaller exhaust valves and put devcon in his port job ?
I am curious about this too because I have heard about it since at least the 2021/2022 and am hearing about crank issues on the 2023 as well.
I must have been watching the wrong motorsports channel, since the CRF250R was not really rockets, Star Yamaha and PC Kawi outpowered them on every start and longer uphill... the starts in outdoors was usually blue if someone else didn't get a really good jump.
I know a lot of Hondas were having crankshaft position sensor issues that would lead the bike to randomly shut off.
Brad, the guy who is a huge part of Star’s success with their motors, will never leave there. He’s set to inherit ownership of the team from Bobby when Bobby retires.
Who builds the 250cc engines from the Suzuki team?
Twisted Development builds the engines for the BarX Suzuki Team.
It's not a stock part that failed them.
The stock rod is good, I haven't had one issue. I've had five of this gen 250 and never lost one. We have had other issues but nothing catastrophic with up to 110 hrs on a bike. Just wear items replaced.
Just ask Jo lol
Yeah I remember Hunter getting pulled on uphills by a blue and green bike most of this last outdoor season. I think Jeremy Coker (Star 450 Team Manager) used to build the engines for the 250 team. Not sure how much part of the development he was though.
except for the three championships HRC won in the 250 class last year
Pit Row
I didn't realize bikes won championships, I thought people did? Would you like to retract your statement or will you full send it?
If I was one of the top riders in the world. Racing other top riders. I like my chances more if it’s not on a lesser bike. So yes, the equipment plays a huge role in championships.
That's not what I said, just ask Roczen. Would you also like to retract your statement?
its what your most comfortable on. Its not black and white by any means.
And money talks. Do you belive that Jett would have done better or worse on a star yamaha compared to his hrc honda.
Hunter won on the Honda this summer yes, but i am a firm beliver that it would have been a easier ride on star or pc bike.
Is the stock crank okay at stock power levels?
Have 'CRF250' & 'Rocket' ever been used in the same sentence before??
Yes, Honda's are built with reliability in mind. They will often choose reliability over horsepower. your crank is good even if you were looking to get more horsepower out of the motor.
https://www.vitalmx.com/forums/moto-related/what-did-mitch-find?page=0
I think they're referring to the PC bikes with crank issues not Honda
Honda 250 "rockets"? Seriously? That motor is easily 4th or 5th at best. Star has been the #1 motor since 2014, and its not even close. Pro-Circuit Kawi motors are easily 2nd, then Husky, KTM.
Indeed I think that working with the CRF250 or the Suzuki RMZ250 as base is a serious challenge. If you can create a championship worthy bike from that platform you're doing a great job. Mitch Payton didn't had the best years but was it the bike or the lost war on talent for them?
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