Washington Rider Shot and Killed

TalinH112
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Belgrade, MT, USA
11/2/2023 9:46am

I’m surprised to see we have many crime scene investigators and lawyers as members of this site. Pretty crazy. 

1
3
mxb2
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Bowie, MD, USA
11/2/2023 9:52am
TalinH112 wrote:

I’m surprised to see we have many crime scene investigators and lawyers as members of this site. Pretty crazy. 

Like doctors,therapists, etc lol.  

2
1
TalinH112
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11/2/2023 9:54am
TalinH112 wrote:

I’m surprised to see we have many crime scene investigators and lawyers as members of this site. Pretty crazy. 

mxb2 wrote:

Like doctors,therapists, etc lol.  

Vital and the upper echelons of society apparently go hand in hand. 😂

1
MxAddic
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11/2/2023 9:54am Edited Date/Time 11/2/2023 4:25pm
ToolMaker wrote:
Not true. "RCW 9A.16.020  Use of force—When lawful.  The use, attempt, or offer to use force upon or toward the person of another is not...

Not true.

"RCW 9A.16.020  Use of force—When lawful.  The use, attempt, or offer to use force upon or toward the person of another is not unlawful in the following cases: (1) Whenever necessarily used by a public officer in the performance of a legal duty, or a person assisting the officer and acting under the officer's direction; (2) Whenever necessarily used by a person arresting one who has committed a felony and delivering him or her to a public officer competent to receive him or her into custody; (3) Whenever used by a party about to be injured, or by another lawfully aiding him or her, in preventing or attempting to prevent an offense against his or her person, or a malicious trespass, or other malicious interference with real or personal property lawfully in his or her possession, in case the force is not more than is necessary;"

If he felt the force necessary was to protect his person. We don't know what his thinking was.

I believe malicious trespass is a felony. They would also have to been actively engaged in the malicious act. Charges against the father and son would be indicated.

4

The Shop

11/2/2023 10:09am
ToolMaker wrote:
Not true. "RCW 9A.16.020  Use of force—When lawful.  The use, attempt, or offer to use force upon or toward the person of another is not...

Not true.

"RCW 9A.16.020  Use of force—When lawful.  The use, attempt, or offer to use force upon or toward the person of another is not unlawful in the following cases: (1) Whenever necessarily used by a public officer in the performance of a legal duty, or a person assisting the officer and acting under the officer's direction; (2) Whenever necessarily used by a person arresting one who has committed a felony and delivering him or her to a public officer competent to receive him or her into custody; (3) Whenever used by a party about to be injured, or by another lawfully aiding him or her, in preventing or attempting to prevent an offense against his or her person, or a malicious trespass, or other malicious interference with real or personal property lawfully in his or her possession, in case the force is not more than is necessary;"

If he felt the force necessary was to protect his person. We don't know what his thinking was.

MxAddic wrote:
I believe malicious trespass is a felony. They would also have to been actively engaged in the malicious act. Charges against the father and son would...

I believe malicious trespass is a felony. They would also have to been actively engaged in the malicious act. Charges against the father and son would be indicated.

We really just don't know the details. So until then, this is just a bunch of BS. I by no means am defending ANYONE here. Anytime someone gets killed, it's tragic. Could it have been avoided? Yes, by anyone or all of the three? Yes. But with the available information, you can't vilify anyone. But as a Dad, my own ego or wanting to be right should never be more important than the life of my son. And the fact that someone IS dead, tells us that a Dad let him and his son be involved in a deadly situation. Those are my only strong feelings here. But I don't know how or why it escalated so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt at this time.

TM

1
1
SEEMEFIRST
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Arlington, TX, USA
11/2/2023 10:13am
SEEMEFIRST wrote:

You are riding on my place without permission,  you bitch about being told not to ride here..

You start a fight? You will probably die there.

mxb2 wrote:

Bingo, he doesnt get it. 

Zacka 161 wrote:
Get what? That murder isn’t good. That stating ‘you will probably die there’ is such immature posturing. As if physical strength and murder is what makes...

Get what? That murder isn’t good.

That stating ‘you will probably die there’ is such immature posturing. As if physical strength and murder is what makes your strong. That the actions of the dead victim should be what is held to account and not the person who pulled the trigger. 

All this John Wayne posturing and property valued more than human life is so just… sad really.  Like that’s the society you perpetuate and celebrate to participate in… just sad. 

If someone came to my house to steal my bike and the only option I had was either lose the bike or murder them (legally with stand your ground or whatever). I would lose the bike. 


But maybe I just don’t ’get it’. Murder may be within your morality, just not in mine. And to me the person that pulls the trigger is whole behave MUST be held to account.   

Read what I wrote.

1
zookrider62!
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Plano, TX, USA
11/2/2023 10:21am
TalinH112 wrote:

I’m surprised to see we have many crime scene investigators and lawyers as members of this site. Pretty crazy. 

mxb2 wrote:

Like doctors,therapists, etc lol.  

dont forget Oil specialists, Lubricant Specialists, Fuel Specialists, even freaking tie down specialists

 

oh, and one boot cleaner specialist.

2
TalinH112
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Location
Belgrade, MT, USA
11/2/2023 10:23am
TalinH112 wrote:

I’m surprised to see we have many crime scene investigators and lawyers as members of this site. Pretty crazy. 

mxb2 wrote:

Like doctors,therapists, etc lol.  

dont forget Oil specialists, Lubricant Specialists, Fuel Specialists, even freaking tie down specialists

 

oh, and one boot cleaner specialist.

That boot cleaning specialist was one sick puppy. 😂

1
peelout
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Location
Ogden, UT, USA
11/2/2023 11:14am
TalinH112 wrote:

I’m surprised to see we have many crime scene investigators and lawyers as members of this site. Pretty crazy. 

mxb2 wrote:

Like doctors,therapists, etc lol.  

dont forget Oil specialists, Lubricant Specialists, Fuel Specialists, even freaking tie down specialists

 

oh, and one boot cleaner specialist.

if you don't run Shell Rotella T and Motorex chain lube then fuck you

10
1
plowboy
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Norwich, KS, USA
11/2/2023 11:41am

I'm gonna take some grief for this but oh well...if I understand the few facts we currently know...a man and his grown son trespassed on POSTED FEDERAL land (not state or private).  They were confronted by a federally contracted security guard (basically same responsibility/authority as a govt security employee).

No idea if the security guy was a total dick or not...but nowhere in his job description does it say he must be pleasant while doing his job...which is enforcing trespassing laws.

I don't know how many scuffles you guys have been in but I quit fighting in my mid 20's when I realized it ain't like the movies.  When really tough mean guys fight...somebody ain't ever the same again...or goes to the morgue.  That guard was issued a gun and authorized to use it for EXACTLY this situation.  He deserves to go home in the same condition he started his shift.

I can't even call this a tragedy.  It's pitiful and was almost 100% avoidable.  Now, if we learn that some power crazed guard chased them down and instigated/escalated the situation...I'll have a different opinion.

9
1
11/2/2023 12:00pm
plowboy wrote:
I'm gonna take some grief for this but oh well...if I understand the few facts we currently know...a man and his grown son trespassed on POSTED...

I'm gonna take some grief for this but oh well...if I understand the few facts we currently know...a man and his grown son trespassed on POSTED FEDERAL land (not state or private).  They were confronted by a federally contracted security guard (basically same responsibility/authority as a govt security employee).

No idea if the security guy was a total dick or not...but nowhere in his job description does it say he must be pleasant while doing his job...which is enforcing trespassing laws.

I don't know how many scuffles you guys have been in but I quit fighting in my mid 20's when I realized it ain't like the movies.  When really tough mean guys fight...somebody ain't ever the same again...or goes to the morgue.  That guard was issued a gun and authorized to use it for EXACTLY this situation.  He deserves to go home in the same condition he started his shift.

I can't even call this a tragedy.  It's pitiful and was almost 100% avoidable.  Now, if we learn that some power crazed guard chased them down and instigated/escalated the situation...I'll have a different opinion.

No grief from me as everyone has an opinion.  None of us know what went down but I'll stay on course with my original armchair analysis on page 5 that this was escalated by a puffy chested security guard and he was out of line with killing the rider.  If the riders were known criminals with long rap sheets I wouldn't feel this way, but the father and son involved were good people according to many people who spoke out.  Good people do not go around starting fights with law enforcement, and so I don't believe they started the fight.  I believe there was some unnecessary power tripping going on from the security guard and words escalated quickly into shoving and pushing.  I believe the power company will pay heavily for this. 

About the trespassing on federal land, there were multiple tracks all over this land and people heave been riding there for 20yrs without issue.  It's not like they cut through a barbed wire fence and were sneaking in on the pentagon.  They were riding on established tracks they've ridden for 20 years "without the sheriff even touching their brakes as they drove by."

That's my two cents, would happily eat crow if I'm wrong.  If the Father and Son were convicted felons who started fights everywhere they went it would make complete sense to defend the law enforcement, which is the more the norm.  But good people don't just fly off the hook and start beating up a security guard with a gun.

4
plowboy
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11/2/2023 12:29pm
plowboy wrote:
I'm gonna take some grief for this but oh well...if I understand the few facts we currently know...a man and his grown son trespassed on POSTED...

I'm gonna take some grief for this but oh well...if I understand the few facts we currently know...a man and his grown son trespassed on POSTED FEDERAL land (not state or private).  They were confronted by a federally contracted security guard (basically same responsibility/authority as a govt security employee).

No idea if the security guy was a total dick or not...but nowhere in his job description does it say he must be pleasant while doing his job...which is enforcing trespassing laws.

I don't know how many scuffles you guys have been in but I quit fighting in my mid 20's when I realized it ain't like the movies.  When really tough mean guys fight...somebody ain't ever the same again...or goes to the morgue.  That guard was issued a gun and authorized to use it for EXACTLY this situation.  He deserves to go home in the same condition he started his shift.

I can't even call this a tragedy.  It's pitiful and was almost 100% avoidable.  Now, if we learn that some power crazed guard chased them down and instigated/escalated the situation...I'll have a different opinion.

No grief from me as everyone has an opinion.  None of us know what went down but I'll stay on course with my original armchair analysis...

No grief from me as everyone has an opinion.  None of us know what went down but I'll stay on course with my original armchair analysis on page 5 that this was escalated by a puffy chested security guard and he was out of line with killing the rider.  If the riders were known criminals with long rap sheets I wouldn't feel this way, but the father and son involved were good people according to many people who spoke out.  Good people do not go around starting fights with law enforcement, and so I don't believe they started the fight.  I believe there was some unnecessary power tripping going on from the security guard and words escalated quickly into shoving and pushing.  I believe the power company will pay heavily for this. 

About the trespassing on federal land, there were multiple tracks all over this land and people heave been riding there for 20yrs without issue.  It's not like they cut through a barbed wire fence and were sneaking in on the pentagon.  They were riding on established tracks they've ridden for 20 years "without the sheriff even touching their brakes as they drove by."

That's my two cents, would happily eat crow if I'm wrong.  If the Father and Son were convicted felons who started fights everywhere they went it would make complete sense to defend the law enforcement, which is the more the norm.  But good people don't just fly off the hook and start beating up a security guard with a gun.

I don't disagree if the guard stepped over the line.  I personally know some cops that shouldn't be.  

I do know this...you don't argue or fight with a man carrying a gun and a badge and expect a good outcome.  

Even if this rent a cop was a complete and total dick...he has a gun and the authorization to use it when confronted.  

You've got to be ballsy as fuck to throw down in a situation like that... especially with your son in harms way.

I can only comment based on what we currently know.  Things/opinions are subject to change if more info is forthcoming.

1
OldPro277
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Avonmore, PA, USA
11/2/2023 1:06pm Edited Date/Time 11/2/2023 1:08pm
plowboy wrote:
I'm gonna take some grief for this but oh well...if I understand the few facts we currently know...a man and his grown son trespassed on POSTED...

I'm gonna take some grief for this but oh well...if I understand the few facts we currently know...a man and his grown son trespassed on POSTED FEDERAL land (not state or private).  They were confronted by a federally contracted security guard (basically same responsibility/authority as a govt security employee).

No idea if the security guy was a total dick or not...but nowhere in his job description does it say he must be pleasant while doing his job...which is enforcing trespassing laws.

I don't know how many scuffles you guys have been in but I quit fighting in my mid 20's when I realized it ain't like the movies.  When really tough mean guys fight...somebody ain't ever the same again...or goes to the morgue.  That guard was issued a gun and authorized to use it for EXACTLY this situation.  He deserves to go home in the same condition he started his shift.

I can't even call this a tragedy.  It's pitiful and was almost 100% avoidable.  Now, if we learn that some power crazed guard chased them down and instigated/escalated the situation...I'll have a different opinion.

Plowboy and MXB2 ---I  agree with everything you guys have stated  --And also these statements from the lawsuit article need to be dissected and more details released before the Vital legal team makes a decision---

"The lawsuit says Franklin's son was behind the wheel and bumped a no trespassing sign. The two were soon pursued by an Intercon security guard working for the power company."---- I can envision a scenario where the young kid says defiantly "fuck this trespassing sign" and knocks it over causing this "pursuit" .  Kid should have just pulled over immediately. Like mxb2 says and I agree 100%-- if you're not guilty of a crime, don't run from police 

"The lawsuit claims Franklin and his son were unarmed. The Spokane County Sheriff's Office says the two were trespassing on federal land and witnesses saw them attack the guard before the shooting."    Again, we need know exactly what these  witnesses  saw and when they saw it. Did they witness the ENTIRE encounter ? 

2
Joey Bridges
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11/2/2023 1:23pm

Sonuvafrikkinbitch, now non-moto gets saddled with this shit show  ?? 

3
plowboy
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11/2/2023 1:28pm
OldPro277 wrote:
Plowboy and MXB2 ---I  agree with everything you guys have stated  --And also these statements from the lawsuit article need to be dissected and more details...

Plowboy and MXB2 ---I  agree with everything you guys have stated  --And also these statements from the lawsuit article need to be dissected and more details released before the Vital legal team makes a decision---

"The lawsuit says Franklin's son was behind the wheel and bumped a no trespassing sign. The two were soon pursued by an Intercon security guard working for the power company."---- I can envision a scenario where the young kid says defiantly "fuck this trespassing sign" and knocks it over causing this "pursuit" .  Kid should have just pulled over immediately. Like mxb2 says and I agree 100%-- if you're not guilty of a crime, don't run from police 

"The lawsuit claims Franklin and his son were unarmed. The Spokane County Sheriff's Office says the two were trespassing on federal land and witnesses saw them attack the guard before the shooting."    Again, we need know exactly what these  witnesses  saw and when they saw it. Did they witness the ENTIRE encounter ? 

I have no idea what protections are afforded to a "contracted" security agency by federal law but I'd imagine they parallel full civil service employees. 

I don't see this suit moving forward.  A lawful designee of the govt was physically accosted by two grown men in the course of his duties.

As I said earlier...if the security guy ran them off the road into the sign or pursued them onto public land and went berzerko...I'll have a different opinion.

plowboy
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11/2/2023 1:32pm

20180731 203823.jpg?VersionId=xGVFjSometimes berzerko is ok.Silly

3
OldPro277
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Avonmore, PA, USA
11/2/2023 1:40pm
OldPro277 wrote:
Plowboy and MXB2 ---I  agree with everything you guys have stated  --And also these statements from the lawsuit article need to be dissected and more details...

Plowboy and MXB2 ---I  agree with everything you guys have stated  --And also these statements from the lawsuit article need to be dissected and more details released before the Vital legal team makes a decision---

"The lawsuit says Franklin's son was behind the wheel and bumped a no trespassing sign. The two were soon pursued by an Intercon security guard working for the power company."---- I can envision a scenario where the young kid says defiantly "fuck this trespassing sign" and knocks it over causing this "pursuit" .  Kid should have just pulled over immediately. Like mxb2 says and I agree 100%-- if you're not guilty of a crime, don't run from police 

"The lawsuit claims Franklin and his son were unarmed. The Spokane County Sheriff's Office says the two were trespassing on federal land and witnesses saw them attack the guard before the shooting."    Again, we need know exactly what these  witnesses  saw and when they saw it. Did they witness the ENTIRE encounter ? 

plowboy wrote:
I have no idea what protections are afforded to a "contracted" security agency by federal law but I'd imagine they parallel full civil service employees.  I...

I have no idea what protections are afforded to a "contracted" security agency by federal law but I'd imagine they parallel full civil service employees. 

I don't see this suit moving forward.  A lawful designee of the govt was physically accosted by two grown men in the course of his duties.

As I said earlier...if the security guy ran them off the road into the sign or pursued them onto public land and went berzerko...I'll have a different opinion.

Why I'm hoping that these "witnesses" saw Point A to point Z .  The kid will have a story 180 degrees from the LEO ,I'm sure.

plowboy
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11/2/2023 1:55pm
OldPro277 wrote:

Why I'm hoping that these "witnesses" saw Point A to point Z .  The kid will have a story 180 degrees from the LEO ,I'm sure.

Of course.Sad

11/2/2023 2:49pm
plowboy wrote:
I'm gonna take some grief for this but oh well...if I understand the few facts we currently know...a man and his grown son trespassed on POSTED...

I'm gonna take some grief for this but oh well...if I understand the few facts we currently know...a man and his grown son trespassed on POSTED FEDERAL land (not state or private).  They were confronted by a federally contracted security guard (basically same responsibility/authority as a govt security employee).

No idea if the security guy was a total dick or not...but nowhere in his job description does it say he must be pleasant while doing his job...which is enforcing trespassing laws.

I don't know how many scuffles you guys have been in but I quit fighting in my mid 20's when I realized it ain't like the movies.  When really tough mean guys fight...somebody ain't ever the same again...or goes to the morgue.  That guard was issued a gun and authorized to use it for EXACTLY this situation.  He deserves to go home in the same condition he started his shift.

I can't even call this a tragedy.  It's pitiful and was almost 100% avoidable.  Now, if we learn that some power crazed guard chased them down and instigated/escalated the situation...I'll have a different opinion.

No grief from me as everyone has an opinion.  None of us know what went down but I'll stay on course with my original armchair analysis...

No grief from me as everyone has an opinion.  None of us know what went down but I'll stay on course with my original armchair analysis on page 5 that this was escalated by a puffy chested security guard and he was out of line with killing the rider.  If the riders were known criminals with long rap sheets I wouldn't feel this way, but the father and son involved were good people according to many people who spoke out.  Good people do not go around starting fights with law enforcement, and so I don't believe they started the fight.  I believe there was some unnecessary power tripping going on from the security guard and words escalated quickly into shoving and pushing.  I believe the power company will pay heavily for this. 

About the trespassing on federal land, there were multiple tracks all over this land and people heave been riding there for 20yrs without issue.  It's not like they cut through a barbed wire fence and were sneaking in on the pentagon.  They were riding on established tracks they've ridden for 20 years "without the sheriff even touching their brakes as they drove by."

That's my two cents, would happily eat crow if I'm wrong.  If the Father and Son were convicted felons who started fights everywhere they went it would make complete sense to defend the law enforcement, which is the more the norm.  But good people don't just fly off the hook and start beating up a security guard with a gun.

plowboy wrote:
I don't disagree if the guard stepped over the line.  I personally know some cops that shouldn't be.   I do know this...you don't argue or fight...

I don't disagree if the guard stepped over the line.  I personally know some cops that shouldn't be.  

I do know this...you don't argue or fight with a man carrying a gun and a badge and expect a good outcome.  

Even if this rent a cop was a complete and total dick...he has a gun and the authorization to use it when confronted.  

You've got to be ballsy as fuck to throw down in a situation like that... especially with your son in harms way.

I can only comment based on what we currently know.  Things/opinions are subject to change if more info is forthcoming.

It wasn't terribly long ago they were posting ads for hiring IRS agents. With requirements to carry a weapon and be prepared to kill. Freaking IRS agents.

1
3
early
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11/2/2023 3:01pm
ToolMaker wrote:
It wasn't terribly long ago they were posting ads for hiring IRS agents. With requirements to carry a weapon and be prepared to kill. Freaking IRS...

It wasn't terribly long ago they were posting ads for hiring IRS agents. With requirements to carry a weapon and be prepared to kill. Freaking IRS agents.

IRS agents participate in raids and questioning outside governemnt buildings. Yes they are armed, always have been.

3
11/2/2023 4:22pm
ToolMaker wrote:
It wasn't terribly long ago they were posting ads for hiring IRS agents. With requirements to carry a weapon and be prepared to kill. Freaking IRS...

It wasn't terribly long ago they were posting ads for hiring IRS agents. With requirements to carry a weapon and be prepared to kill. Freaking IRS agents.

early wrote:

IRS agents participate in raids and questioning outside governemnt buildings. Yes they are armed, always have been.

My point was, the government actively hires people that do not have a problem killing people. And then people want to start shit with someone who works for the government, carries a gun, and has signed papers they are willing to kill. Who's the stupid one here? I say, it's better to not be dead.

3
4
MxAddic
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USA
11/2/2023 4:30pm Edited Date/Time 11/2/2023 4:43pm
ToolMaker wrote:
My point was, the government actively hires people that do not have a problem killing people. And then people want to start shit with someone who...

My point was, the government actively hires people that do not have a problem killing people. And then people want to start shit with someone who works for the government, carries a gun, and has signed papers they are willing to kill. Who's the stupid one here? I say, it's better to not be dead.

Even if the kid ran down the sign on purpose it does not matter. The only thing that does is the start of the physical contact to the point the trigger stopped being pulled.

If some dude runs down your mailbox you can't go hands on with him, pull out your piece and cap them.

1
4
Zacka 161
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Mount Waverley, VIC, AU
11/2/2023 5:04pm
mxb2 wrote:

Bingo, he doesnt get it. 

Zacka 161 wrote:
Get what? That murder isn’t good. That stating ‘you will probably die there’ is such immature posturing. As if physical strength and murder is what makes...

Get what? That murder isn’t good.

That stating ‘you will probably die there’ is such immature posturing. As if physical strength and murder is what makes your strong. That the actions of the dead victim should be what is held to account and not the person who pulled the trigger. 

All this John Wayne posturing and property valued more than human life is so just… sad really.  Like that’s the society you perpetuate and celebrate to participate in… just sad. 

If someone came to my house to steal my bike and the only option I had was either lose the bike or murder them (legally with stand your ground or whatever). I would lose the bike. 


But maybe I just don’t ’get it’. Murder may be within your morality, just not in mine. And to me the person that pulls the trigger is whole behave MUST be held to account.   

SEEMEFIRST wrote:

Read what I wrote.

Read and responded.


It's a moral issue. My morality puts human life above property and ego, yours doesn't and based on the replies on this forum, it seems to be a distinctly American view that human life is secondary to property and ego. Which is honestly a bit sad really.

1
10
11/2/2023 5:10pm
ToolMaker wrote:
My point was, the government actively hires people that do not have a problem killing people. And then people want to start shit with someone who...

My point was, the government actively hires people that do not have a problem killing people. And then people want to start shit with someone who works for the government, carries a gun, and has signed papers they are willing to kill. Who's the stupid one here? I say, it's better to not be dead.

MxAddic wrote:
Even if the kid ran down the sign on purpose it does not matter. The only thing that does is the start of the physical contact...

Even if the kid ran down the sign on purpose it does not matter. The only thing that does is the start of the physical contact to the point the trigger stopped being pulled.

If some dude runs down your mailbox you can't go hands on with him, pull out your piece and cap them.

How about we just all agree it's better to not be dead. If someone has a gun, do what ever you can to not instigate getting shot. Then, argue about it another day.

2
mxb2
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Bowie, MD, USA
11/2/2023 5:15pm
Zacka 161 wrote:
Get what? That murder isn’t good. That stating ‘you will probably die there’ is such immature posturing. As if physical strength and murder is what makes...

Get what? That murder isn’t good.

That stating ‘you will probably die there’ is such immature posturing. As if physical strength and murder is what makes your strong. That the actions of the dead victim should be what is held to account and not the person who pulled the trigger. 

All this John Wayne posturing and property valued more than human life is so just… sad really.  Like that’s the society you perpetuate and celebrate to participate in… just sad. 

If someone came to my house to steal my bike and the only option I had was either lose the bike or murder them (legally with stand your ground or whatever). I would lose the bike. 


But maybe I just don’t ’get it’. Murder may be within your morality, just not in mine. And to me the person that pulls the trigger is whole behave MUST be held to account.   

SEEMEFIRST wrote:

Read what I wrote.

Zacka 161 wrote:
Read and responded. It's a moral issue. My morality puts human life above property and ego, yours doesn't and based on the replies on this forum...

Read and responded.


It's a moral issue. My morality puts human life above property and ego, yours doesn't and based on the replies on this forum, it seems to be a distinctly American view that human life is secondary to property and ego. Which is honestly a bit sad really.

Nobody said property was more important than life . Since you are so high on morals,do you trespass and commit crimes?  Maybe morals should include not breaking the law.  Hmmm. 

5
truck
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6/10/2015
Location
Louisville, KY, USA
Fantasy
11/2/2023 5:26pm
ToolMaker wrote:
My point was, the government actively hires people that do not have a problem killing people. And then people want to start shit with someone who...

My point was, the government actively hires people that do not have a problem killing people. And then people want to start shit with someone who works for the government, carries a gun, and has signed papers they are willing to kill. Who's the stupid one here? I say, it's better to not be dead.

MxAddic wrote:
Even if the kid ran down the sign on purpose it does not matter. The only thing that does is the start of the physical contact...

Even if the kid ran down the sign on purpose it does not matter. The only thing that does is the start of the physical contact to the point the trigger stopped being pulled.

If some dude runs down your mailbox you can't go hands on with him, pull out your piece and cap them.

Equating this to a fight between two average citizens is not at all an accurate representation. You are never ever going to win by engaging in a physical altercation with a police officer, security guard, bouncer, or anyone else lawfully placed in a position of authority. These people are well within their rights to initiate physical contact with you in order to get you to comply. You are not entitled to initiate or fight back no matter how right you think you are when you are in these situations. The "he started it" argument makes no difference here. This isn't two neighbors in a dispute. Again, this isn't an opinion or a commentary on the way things should be, it's just reality. Baffling that so many don't understand this. 

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1
Zacka 161
Posts
1682
Joined
7/30/2009
Location
Mount Waverley, VIC, AU
11/2/2023 5:38pm
SEEMEFIRST wrote:

Read what I wrote.

Zacka 161 wrote:
Read and responded. It's a moral issue. My morality puts human life above property and ego, yours doesn't and based on the replies on this forum...

Read and responded.


It's a moral issue. My morality puts human life above property and ego, yours doesn't and based on the replies on this forum, it seems to be a distinctly American view that human life is secondary to property and ego. Which is honestly a bit sad really.

mxb2 wrote:
Nobody said property was more important than life . Since you are so high on morals,do you trespass and commit crimes?  Maybe morals should include not...

Nobody said property was more important than life . Since you are so high on morals,do you trespass and commit crimes?  Maybe morals should include not breaking the law.  Hmmm. 

No I don't... But this is exactly my point, you are literally creating a moral equivalence between human life and trespassing... Literally rebuking the moral stance I'm purporting you to have, then doubling down on having it... 

I love you think if my morals put life above property and ego, I must trespass and do crime... As if it's inconceivable to not do something without the threat of being shot in the face... This is a distinctly American way of living. 

The french lady in the New York should simply read - Land, liberty and the pursuit of power.

8
MxAddic
Posts
5308
Joined
11/24/2022
Location
USA
11/2/2023 5:49pm
Zacka 161 wrote:
No I don't... But this is exactly my point, you are literally creating a moral equivalence between human life and trespassing... Literally rebuking the moral stance...

No I don't... But this is exactly my point, you are literally creating a moral equivalence between human life and trespassing... Literally rebuking the moral stance I'm purporting you to have, then doubling down on having it... 

I love you think if my morals put life above property and ego, I must trespass and do crime... As if it's inconceivable to not do something without the threat of being shot in the face... This is a distinctly American way of living. 

The french lady in the New York should simply read - Land, liberty and the pursuit of power.

Your equating being a vitard with being an American. The two are not symbiotic.

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2
mxb2
Posts
22437
Joined
6/15/2010
Location
Bowie, MD, USA
11/2/2023 6:01pm
Zacka 161 wrote:
Read and responded. It's a moral issue. My morality puts human life above property and ego, yours doesn't and based on the replies on this forum...

Read and responded.


It's a moral issue. My morality puts human life above property and ego, yours doesn't and based on the replies on this forum, it seems to be a distinctly American view that human life is secondary to property and ego. Which is honestly a bit sad really.

mxb2 wrote:
Nobody said property was more important than life . Since you are so high on morals,do you trespass and commit crimes?  Maybe morals should include not...

Nobody said property was more important than life . Since you are so high on morals,do you trespass and commit crimes?  Maybe morals should include not breaking the law.  Hmmm. 

Zacka 161 wrote:
No I don't... But this is exactly my point, you are literally creating a moral equivalence between human life and trespassing... Literally rebuking the moral stance...

No I don't... But this is exactly my point, you are literally creating a moral equivalence between human life and trespassing... Literally rebuking the moral stance I'm purporting you to have, then doubling down on having it... 

I love you think if my morals put life above property and ego, I must trespass and do crime... As if it's inconceivable to not do something without the threat of being shot in the face... This is a distinctly American way of living. 

The french lady in the New York should simply read - Land, liberty and the pursuit of power.

Why are you on this site if americans bother you so much?  No other websites you can visit?  But here you are. I just asked a question about morals,the subject you brought up.  I guess the trespasser had.no morals like yours.  Imagine just not being on someones elses property.  

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3
JM485
Posts
5807
Joined
10/1/2013
Location
Davis, CA, USA
11/2/2023 6:20pm

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