Stark Orders and Payments

avidchimp
Posts
5779
Joined
7/9/2008
Location
EGL, MN, USA
9/1/2023 12:10pm Edited Date/Time 9/1/2023 12:11pm
TahoeVetMX wrote:

Did he pre order it or did he just walk in a buy it?

avidchimp wrote:

Good thing they could walk into a dealership and pick one up, instead of delivering bikes to the people who actually already paid for it.

I think they offer the option of taking delivery at a local dealer with the bike ready to ride, or shipping to the customers home. It...

I think they offer the option of taking delivery at a local dealer with the bike ready to ride, or shipping to the customers home. It was an option when I looked last.  They would be pulling a KTM if they started having bikes on the showroom for sale before the people who paid in full got theirs. 

I looked as well as I was considering one, but the last thing I am doing is paying for something upfront on a promise that it will be delivered when it's ready. I don't buy cars that way and I am sure as hell not paying 14k for a bike that way.

Bikes paid for will be built when other people make a purchase. Can kicked down the road.

4
1
500 Mike
Posts
1123
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Kingwood, TX, USA
9/1/2023 12:12pm

I wonder if the Japanese manufacturers are having parts supply issues also or if it is only the KTM group ?

I would be equally incensed if I had my bike sitting for 10 months waiting on parts or paying $13K or whatever the Varg price is and not having a bike delivered in a timely manner.  If Varg needs your money before they start building your bike, that is an extremely bad sign in my opinion.

3
1
avidchimp
Posts
5779
Joined
7/9/2008
Location
EGL, MN, USA
9/1/2023 12:14pm
500 Mike wrote:
I wonder if the Japanese manufacturers are having parts supply issues also or if it is only the KTM group ? I would be equally incensed...

I wonder if the Japanese manufacturers are having parts supply issues also or if it is only the KTM group ?

I would be equally incensed if I had my bike sitting for 10 months waiting on parts or paying $13K or whatever the Varg price is and not having a bike delivered in a timely manner.  If Varg needs your money before they start building your bike, that is an extremely bad sign in my opinion.

There is no actual parts supply issue, there is only a "I don't want to pay people a fair wage to make shit issue". It's rampant across the board.

3
5
Rob 803
Posts
7
Joined
2/2/2018
Location
Bakersfield, CA, USA
9/1/2023 12:22pm

I've had good luck with Stark with the exception of the initial wait, placed the order on 12-14-21 and received it 7-21-23. They called mid/late June to confirm I still wanted it and they sent me an invoice. A week or so went by then received a shipment notification with a tracking number. Another week or two later I received a call from the shipping company letting me know it was in Los Angeles and we scheduled the delivery. Placed multiple spare parts orders that have delivered since including a LHRB. Customer service has been really helpful, I asked for info regarding routing of the LHRB line and the next day they sent me 4 or 5 pics of the routing from a bike they had apart. Hope this is helpful.

9

The Shop

JM485
Posts
5803
Joined
10/1/2013
Location
Davis, CA, USA
9/1/2023 12:26pm
Serious question: If they barely know that you exist, how did you (presumably) get invited to ride a pre-production bike and tour the factory?  Did they...

Serious question: If they barely know that you exist, how did you (presumably) get invited to ride a pre-production bike and tour the factory?  Did they pick up the tab for your flight/hotel/food?

I know it probably sounds that way, but it’s not a shot at you, btw.  I’d do the same if invited, even on my own dime.

Not at all, that's a completely valid question.  Without getting into too much detail, essentially a friend/business partner of mine was in contact with Anton prior to the founding of Stark, but he had no idea what he was working on until the official announcement.  As a nice gesture he was invited to do the factory tour and ride the bike, and I was lucky enough to be brought along as well because I do a lot of E-bike product testing and design work for him.  I don't believe Stark paid for my trip, but I'm not 100% sure how that was handled.  The only reason I mentioned it was to make the point that I have no official affiliation with them, whether Stark goes out of business next year makes no difference in my life (aside from the fact that I would hate to see all of the great people that I met lose their jobs, and as an E-bike enthusiast I'm a big fan of the bike and want everyone to have the chance to experience it).  That's the extent of my relationship with them, maybe someday soon I'll be a bigger player in the E-bike world but for now I'm a consumer waiting for his bike just like everyone else, I get no preference in that regard.  

7
1
JM485
Posts
5803
Joined
10/1/2013
Location
Davis, CA, USA
9/1/2023 12:30pm Edited Date/Time 9/1/2023 12:31pm
NSP139 wrote:
So they're asking for money up front before they even manufacture your bike that doesn't sound like a company that's going to be around for a...

So they're asking for money up front before they even manufacture your bike that doesn't sound like a company that's going to be around for a long time

Then don't buy one, it's a simple as that.  They're not lying to misleading anyone about the process, when you pay in full your bike goes into production and that is the agreement that you have with them.  As far as I'm concerned this is the Ferrari of dirtbikes, and with that there is a different approach to payment than just walking into a dealer and buying one like you would a regular Toyota.  Not everyone will agree and that's fine, but that's how they've set their business up and that's what every buyer agreed to when they paid for the bike.  

1
9
TahoeVetMX
Posts
271
Joined
9/5/2021
Location
Las Vegas, NV, USA
9/1/2023 12:32pm
Rob 803 wrote:
I've had good luck with Stark with the exception of the initial wait, placed the order on 12-14-21 and received it 7-21-23. They called mid/late June...

I've had good luck with Stark with the exception of the initial wait, placed the order on 12-14-21 and received it 7-21-23. They called mid/late June to confirm I still wanted it and they sent me an invoice. A week or so went by then received a shipment notification with a tracking number. Another week or two later I received a call from the shipping company letting me know it was in Los Angeles and we scheduled the delivery. Placed multiple spare parts orders that have delivered since including a LHRB. Customer service has been really helpful, I asked for info regarding routing of the LHRB line and the next day they sent me 4 or 5 pics of the routing from a bike they had apart. Hope this is helpful.

That is interesting.  My order was the same date 12/14/21 and I paid late June, got a call first few days of July and still nothing. 

1
Rob 803
Posts
7
Joined
2/2/2018
Location
Bakersfield, CA, USA
9/1/2023 12:52pm
TahoeVetMX wrote:

That is interesting.  My order was the same date 12/14/21 and I paid late June, got a call first few days of July and still nothing. 

They did mention on the initial call that they had already built a bike for someone else that had a payment issue, I wasn't next on the entire list but next with that exact build spec, so mine was likely earlier than it should have been since it was already assembled but I'm just guessing.  

9/1/2023 12:57pm

I will add that I have contacted Stark about buying plastic to make templates, and a few other times with questions and they replied in a day or so every time with an answer. Not always the answer wanted to hear, but they did respond each time. 

I really doubt that Stark needs the money to build the bikes, I think they just want to protect themselves and not build bikes that people do not intend on purchasing.  They may have run into delays. And I can understand running into issues that put me behind as a small business owner. I do agree that if they do need the funds in order to be able to build the bikes , that would not be a good sign. But having to redo bikes to change specs , etc. also adds up and could dig into the funds. I do not think that asking for the money in full before they build the bike is any sign of a problem.  When the time comes that You can walk into a shop and just buy one. You will be stuck with whatever is on the showroom floor.  

I make custom graphics and after they are printed, They are not any good for anybody else. I ask for payment in full before I print them . Not because I can not afford to print them. But because they will end up in the dumpster or sample draw if somebody flakes on payment.

3
avidchimp
Posts
5779
Joined
7/9/2008
Location
EGL, MN, USA
9/1/2023 12:59pm
NSP139 wrote:
So they're asking for money up front before they even manufacture your bike that doesn't sound like a company that's going to be around for a...

So they're asking for money up front before they even manufacture your bike that doesn't sound like a company that's going to be around for a long time

JM485 wrote:
Then don't buy one, it's a simple as that.  They're not lying to misleading anyone about the process, when you pay in full your bike goes...

Then don't buy one, it's a simple as that.  They're not lying to misleading anyone about the process, when you pay in full your bike goes into production and that is the agreement that you have with them.  As far as I'm concerned this is the Ferrari of dirtbikes, and with that there is a different approach to payment than just walking into a dealer and buying one like you would a regular Toyota.  Not everyone will agree and that's fine, but that's how they've set their business up and that's what every buyer agreed to when they paid for the bike.  

No, but they are taking your money to build other peoples bikes while you wait and paying for yours with Future orders. Pun intended.

2
2
9/1/2023 1:08pm

My question would be, why are the bikes not being assembled in bulk and leave suspension for last so that when payment is being taken from X customer all they have to do is suspension settings for that customer, throw it on the bike and ship it out?

3
2
avidchimp
Posts
5779
Joined
7/9/2008
Location
EGL, MN, USA
9/1/2023 1:18pm Edited Date/Time 9/1/2023 1:18pm
mattyhamz2 wrote:
My question would be, why are the bikes not being assembled in bulk and leave suspension for last so that when payment is being taken from...

My question would be, why are the bikes not being assembled in bulk and leave suspension for last so that when payment is being taken from X customer all they have to do is suspension settings for that customer, throw it on the bike and ship it out?

Because they are kicking a can down the road. I love the idea and concept of the bike, but they are blowing smoke and mirrors on the delivery of bikes paid in full. They don't have the resources to fulfill what has been ordered and paid for without piggybacking the costs they have already incurred into more orders.

3
2
LungButter
Posts
8684
Joined
1/9/2016
Location
Yellow Pine, ID, USA
9/1/2023 1:54pm
avidchimp wrote:
Because they are kicking a can down the road. I love the idea and concept of the bike, but they are blowing smoke and mirrors on...

Because they are kicking a can down the road. I love the idea and concept of the bike, but they are blowing smoke and mirrors on the delivery of bikes paid in full. They don't have the resources to fulfill what has been ordered and paid for without piggybacking the costs they have already incurred into more orders.

I don't know if you are right or wrong but how do you know this for certain?

Do you work in their Accounting Department?

1
avidchimp
Posts
5779
Joined
7/9/2008
Location
EGL, MN, USA
9/1/2023 2:04pm
avidchimp wrote:
Because they are kicking a can down the road. I love the idea and concept of the bike, but they are blowing smoke and mirrors on...

Because they are kicking a can down the road. I love the idea and concept of the bike, but they are blowing smoke and mirrors on the delivery of bikes paid in full. They don't have the resources to fulfill what has been ordered and paid for without piggybacking the costs they have already incurred into more orders.

LungButter wrote:

I don't know if you are right or wrong but how do you know this for certain?

Do you work in their Accounting Department?

Nope, just been around long enough to see the forest for the trees. I hope they make it and do well, by all accounts the bike is everything they said it is. But asking for full payment then saying we will be in touch when it's ready for delivery and going a little radio silent is shady. My neighbor paid for his and was told maybe 6-12 weeks, no guarantees on that though.

I just get angry at businesses that talk and talk but don't deliver as promised. If I told my boss, hey that episode of the show you paid me to do is going to air 12 weeks late because supply issues they would fire me and I wouldn't have a career.

6
2
avidchimp
Posts
5779
Joined
7/9/2008
Location
EGL, MN, USA
9/1/2023 2:09pm

And if supply issues are the reason why they are almost 2 years behind on deliveries they didn't do their due diligence in the first place.

1
2
avidchimp
Posts
5779
Joined
7/9/2008
Location
EGL, MN, USA
9/1/2023 2:24pm

Hey, now I have my own vitalmx downvote person. Must be someone from Stark who can't handle a little criticism on their business model. Build a bike, sell a bike, don't make people pay for something that will be coming "soon" and bank their money until you deliver. Pretty simple really.

7
2
9/1/2023 2:26pm
avidchimp wrote:

And if supply issues are the reason why they are almost 2 years behind on deliveries they didn't do their due diligence in the first place.

What is your theory on KTM selling new bikes with the parts on them that customers have been waiting for , for almost a year now?   They gave ETA's of last November and parts just showed up last week . 

 

I do think its not great of them to be not giving people more info that have given them money.  Being late on delivering the finished bike and then starting to ship is one thing. They were still doing what they said  to expect to a degree. But after asking for the funds in full, they should be shipping units out on time or at least giving info on the hold up. I really hope it is a few isolated cases and not the norm. 

5
NSP139
Posts
1231
Joined
5/6/2021
Location
Temecula, CA, USA
9/1/2023 2:29pm
NSP139 wrote:
So they're asking for money up front before they even manufacture your bike that doesn't sound like a company that's going to be around for a...

So they're asking for money up front before they even manufacture your bike that doesn't sound like a company that's going to be around for a long time

JM485 wrote:
Then don't buy one, it's a simple as that.  They're not lying to misleading anyone about the process, when you pay in full your bike goes...

Then don't buy one, it's a simple as that.  They're not lying to misleading anyone about the process, when you pay in full your bike goes into production and that is the agreement that you have with them.  As far as I'm concerned this is the Ferrari of dirtbikes, and with that there is a different approach to payment than just walking into a dealer and buying one like you would a regular Toyota.  Not everyone will agree and that's fine, but that's how they've set their business up and that's what every buyer agreed to when they paid for the bike.  

Don't plan on buying one even if I was interested I would not go first year on a start up company I don't even do that with established manufacturers. Their business practices are a little off-putting long delays and apparently little communication with paying customers. Doesn't seem like they can get bikes off the assembly line yet not sure how long it will be until the profitable. Hope you enjoy your bike if you ever get it and I hope they're around long enough for you to get your spare parts nothing wrong with having another manufacturer in this sport👍

5
1
avidchimp
Posts
5779
Joined
7/9/2008
Location
EGL, MN, USA
9/1/2023 2:37pm
avidchimp wrote:

And if supply issues are the reason why they are almost 2 years behind on deliveries they didn't do their due diligence in the first place.

What is your theory on KTM selling new bikes with the parts on them that customers have been waiting for , for almost a year now? ...

What is your theory on KTM selling new bikes with the parts on them that customers have been waiting for , for almost a year now?   They gave ETA's of last November and parts just showed up last week . 

 

I do think its not great of them to be not giving people more info that have given them money.  Being late on delivering the finished bike and then starting to ship is one thing. They were still doing what they said  to expect to a degree. But after asking for the funds in full, they should be shipping units out on time or at least giving info on the hold up. I really hope it is a few isolated cases and not the norm. 

Now we are back to corporations paying people a living wage. Do that and you have no supply issues.

1
2
avidchimp
Posts
5779
Joined
7/9/2008
Location
EGL, MN, USA
9/1/2023 2:42pm
avidchimp wrote:

And if supply issues are the reason why they are almost 2 years behind on deliveries they didn't do their due diligence in the first place.

What is your theory on KTM selling new bikes with the parts on them that customers have been waiting for , for almost a year now? ...

What is your theory on KTM selling new bikes with the parts on them that customers have been waiting for , for almost a year now?   They gave ETA's of last November and parts just showed up last week . 

 

I do think its not great of them to be not giving people more info that have given them money.  Being late on delivering the finished bike and then starting to ship is one thing. They were still doing what they said  to expect to a degree. But after asking for the funds in full, they should be shipping units out on time or at least giving info on the hold up. I really hope it is a few isolated cases and not the norm. 

avidchimp wrote:

Now we are back to corporations paying people a living wage. Do that and you have no supply issues.

If KTM or whomever it is building those bikes paid their fair share of a reasonable and sustainable wage they would have people lining up around the block to do the job. Supply issues gone. Supply issues are an excuse for corporate greed, all the while sticking us with the bill.

2
4
9/1/2023 3:30pm Edited Date/Time 9/1/2023 4:10pm
What is your theory on KTM selling new bikes with the parts on them that customers have been waiting for , for almost a year now? ...

What is your theory on KTM selling new bikes with the parts on them that customers have been waiting for , for almost a year now?   They gave ETA's of last November and parts just showed up last week . 

 

I do think its not great of them to be not giving people more info that have given them money.  Being late on delivering the finished bike and then starting to ship is one thing. They were still doing what they said  to expect to a degree. But after asking for the funds in full, they should be shipping units out on time or at least giving info on the hold up. I really hope it is a few isolated cases and not the norm. 

avidchimp wrote:

Now we are back to corporations paying people a living wage. Do that and you have no supply issues.

avidchimp wrote:
If KTM or whomever it is building those bikes paid their fair share of a reasonable and sustainable wage they would have people lining up around...

If KTM or whomever it is building those bikes paid their fair share of a reasonable and sustainable wage they would have people lining up around the block to do the job. Supply issues gone. Supply issues are an excuse for corporate greed, all the while sticking us with the bill.

 But why put those parts onto the new bikes instead of providing the parts to the people with bikes that are broken down? 

How do we know that Stark is not having the same problems as KTM  as far as slowing production? 

It's all guessing to a degree.  I would worry more if just about every manufacturer in the world was not having issues to a degree for the past couple years now.  While I do think its not a good look to take money and not deliver on the new timeline, I'm not ready to say that  Stark is cutting things so closely money wise.

*Edited for missing words.

2
ROCKNDAWG
Posts
98
Joined
9/9/2014
Location
Kingman, AZ, USA
9/1/2023 4:07pm
LungButter wrote:
Everybody so mad about Stark not delivering but nobody mad that KTM is parading out new bikes while 1000s of owners of last years bikes are...

Everybody so mad about Stark not delivering but nobody mad that KTM is parading out new bikes while 1000s of owners of last years bikes are waiting on backordered parts....

*Yes, I understand the folks waiting on parts haven't prepaid so it's not "apples to apples" just something I find funny*

I finally got some of those KTM parts I ordered and PAID in full for from KTM.  I paid back in October or so , got...

I finally got some of those KTM parts I ordered and PAID in full for from KTM.  I paid back in October or so , got them in last week.  Since I ordered them the prices went up, but I still got the items  at the price I paid almost a year ago!  I think its not a great look for either to be doing what they are doing. I wonder how many demo Vargs are out there?  

If Stark is doing something shady with customers funds  .What is the conspiracy behind KTM selling bikes built with the parts that people have  had backordered for close to a year, or longer? Is KTM in trouble? Do they just want to sell bikes and build hype for new sales and not care about the people who have a bike sitting they can not ride? 

 

I'm not sure what I would be more mad about. Buying a bike that was late and seeing the demo bikes showing up, or buying a bike that broke and is sitting because it needs the parts that are on the bikes that are showing up in large numbers?  Both people are paying payments or have paid in full and are unable to ride their bikes. And keep having ETA's pushed back. It sucks for both , It might be a sign of trouble, or might not be . Pushing back deliveries of bikes is one thing, but after a customer has paid, I thought that meant they had the bike ready to build. and by now would have an idea of how long that will take. Hope both companies get stuff figured out soon.    

 

mattyhamz2 wrote:
Not a KTM guy so I had no clue about parts being on backorder for so long. What parts were back ordered? 10 months of backorder...

Not a KTM guy so I had no clue about parts being on backorder for so long. What parts were back ordered? 10 months of backorder is pretty bad. Aftermarket parts slightly more understandable, but not OEM.

They have a shortage of a bunch of stuff, mostly when they have pistons exploding and barrels cracking. With all the piston failures I want to replace my stock junk piston which supposedly hits the crank with something else. But I can't  even find the stupid needed little stuff like base gaskets and head O-rings to rebuild it. Pretty much every ride, I wonder if I'm going to make it back or the motor is going to explode.

avidchimp
Posts
5779
Joined
7/9/2008
Location
EGL, MN, USA
9/1/2023 4:09pm
avidchimp wrote:

Now we are back to corporations paying people a living wage. Do that and you have no supply issues.

avidchimp wrote:
If KTM or whomever it is building those bikes paid their fair share of a reasonable and sustainable wage they would have people lining up around...

If KTM or whomever it is building those bikes paid their fair share of a reasonable and sustainable wage they would have people lining up around the block to do the job. Supply issues gone. Supply issues are an excuse for corporate greed, all the while sticking us with the bill.

 But why put those parts onto the new bikes instead of providing the parts to the people with bikes that are broken down?  How do we...

 But why put those parts onto the new bikes instead of providing the parts to the people with bikes that are broken down? 

How do we know that Stark is not having the same problems as KTM  as far as slowing production? 

It's all guessing to a degree.  I would worry more if just about every manufacturer in the world was not having issues to a degree for the past couple years now.  While I do think its not a good look to take money and not deliver on the new timeline, I'm not ready to say that  Stark is cutting things so closely money wise.

*Edited for missing words.

Now you are just trolling. It's called fiscal and supply chain 101 responsibility. Don't promise what you can't deliver, all they are doing is taking your money and telling you to eat your expectations.

1
1
avidchimp
Posts
5779
Joined
7/9/2008
Location
EGL, MN, USA
9/1/2023 4:12pm

And once again, if they paid a living wage to their employees there would be no shortage issue. Funny how none of this existed before March of 2019. Now it's all the rage to blame high costs on shortages on supply issues. All the while John Q Public pays for it.

4
3
9/1/2023 4:14pm
avidchimp wrote:
Hey, now I have my own vitalmx downvote person. Must be someone from Stark who can't handle a little criticism on their business model. Build a...

Hey, now I have my own vitalmx downvote person. Must be someone from Stark who can't handle a little criticism on their business model. Build a bike, sell a bike, don't make people pay for something that will be coming "soon" and bank their money until you deliver. Pretty simple really.

Crazy You have over 4K posts and this is your first downvote.  Due to my mostly positive outlook on Electric MX bikes, and my wordy posts. I probably have more downvotes than posts.  

6
WarrenMX
Posts
794
Joined
3/26/2017
Location
San Clemente, CA, USA
9/1/2023 4:30pm

Making people pay before the bike is actually built seems a bit much. The customizations/options are definitely not so radical that it would make the bike unsellable should the buyer not come through. With so many pre-orders, they'd be able to find some one in line with the similar configuration and offer it to them. This is exactly what Rivian did and with those we're talking $100k vehicles. 

5
LungButter
Posts
8684
Joined
1/9/2016
Location
Yellow Pine, ID, USA
9/1/2023 4:52pm
avidchimp wrote:
And once again, if they paid a living wage to their employees there would be no shortage issue. Funny how none of this existed before March...

And once again, if they paid a living wage to their employees there would be no shortage issue. Funny how none of this existed before March of 2019. Now it's all the rage to blame high costs on shortages on supply issues. All the while John Q Public pays for it.

You sure you don't work in the Accounting Department broski....how you know what they are paying the employees? Tongue

avidchimp
Posts
5779
Joined
7/9/2008
Location
EGL, MN, USA
9/1/2023 5:02pm
avidchimp wrote:
And once again, if they paid a living wage to their employees there would be no shortage issue. Funny how none of this existed before March...

And once again, if they paid a living wage to their employees there would be no shortage issue. Funny how none of this existed before March of 2019. Now it's all the rage to blame high costs on shortages on supply issues. All the while John Q Public pays for it.

LungButter wrote:
You sure you don't work in the Accounting Department broski....how you know what they are paying the employees? 

You sure you don't work in the Accounting Department broski....how you know what they are paying the employees? Tongue

Semantics my brother. It was more of an over all comment about why shit is all of a sudden a supply chain issue.

2
1
avidchimp
Posts
5779
Joined
7/9/2008
Location
EGL, MN, USA
9/1/2023 5:03pm
avidchimp wrote:
Hey, now I have my own vitalmx downvote person. Must be someone from Stark who can't handle a little criticism on their business model. Build a...

Hey, now I have my own vitalmx downvote person. Must be someone from Stark who can't handle a little criticism on their business model. Build a bike, sell a bike, don't make people pay for something that will be coming "soon" and bank their money until you deliver. Pretty simple really.

Crazy You have over 4K posts and this is your first downvote.  Due to my mostly positive outlook on Electric MX bikes, and my wordy posts...

Crazy You have over 4K posts and this is your first downvote.  Due to my mostly positive outlook on Electric MX bikes, and my wordy posts. I probably have more downvotes than posts.  

Naw, I've been downvoted many times, but I am right on this one.

2
sandman768
Posts
8103
Joined
3/21/2014
Location
Saratoga Springs, NY, USA
9/1/2023 5:43pm

Yamaha yz250 2 stroke rings are on back order…. Can I get an amen?

2

Post a reply to: Stark Orders and Payments

The Latest