Stark Varg Racing Debut

Beagle
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8/26/2023 3:33pm

Thomas Do scored a 6th place finish in the finale, 29 s from winner Maxime Desprey after a 13 laps - 10 min race.

I am sure the 31 laps he did tonight will be very useful for him for the next rounds and extremely valuable for Stark to improve the bike and better understand its limits. Competition improves the breed.

 

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RACING
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8/27/2023 2:20am

6th among the 250s (1,5s slower than the winner's best lap) while he was 3rd in the 450s with his YZF (0.6s from the best lap) one race before. 

 

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8tensolutions
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8/27/2023 7:28am
RACING wrote:
6th among the 250s (1,5s slower than the winner's best lap) while he was 3rd in the 450s with his YZF (0.6s from the best lap)...

6th among the 250s (1,5s slower than the winner's best lap) while he was 3rd in the 450s with his YZF (0.6s from the best lap) one race before. 

 

Seems pretty close considering different tracks/days.  

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lumpy790
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8/27/2023 8:13am

For a brand new brand out of the crate to have power, suspension and handling so competitive certainly is impressive. SX is extremely challenging to even be in the ball park on handling and suspension.

And You can bet all the other manufacturers are keeping a very close eye on this to see if they are going to make improvements to stay competitive on a race track.

5

The Shop

8/27/2023 7:36pm
lumpy790 wrote:
For a brand new brand out of the crate to have power, suspension and handling so competitive certainly is impressive. SX is extremely challenging to even...

For a brand new brand out of the crate to have power, suspension and handling so competitive certainly is impressive. SX is extremely challenging to even be in the ball park on handling and suspension.

And You can bet all the other manufacturers are keeping a very close eye on this to see if they are going to make improvements to stay competitive on a race track.

You can bet all the other manufacturers have Stark Vargs on order, so they can be reverse engineered!

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Beagle
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8/28/2023 12:10pm Edited Date/Time 8/28/2023 2:14pm

The Varg was set at 48 hp, so it was amputated from 40% of its power to race in SX2. Power wise it was on par with the 250s it was racing against while being 20 kg heavier. Still got very good starts (including holeshot in the finale), 6th for its first event in SX is not a bad racing debut, and it should only get better with more experience (both for Stark and for Thomas Do with this bike).

Can't wait to see it race the 450s next week,  hopefully they'll be allowed to use full power for proper comparison of its performance.

 

 

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Beagle
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8/28/2023 12:29pm

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GD350
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8/29/2023 6:09am

What are these electric bikes adding to the show? I'd say nothing, and actually taking away excitement. Who wants to see these other than the handful of goobers on this forum who have one? 

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Falcon
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8/30/2023 2:25pm

Regarding the FFM's careful consideration of how to classify these bikes, I'm torn.

Part of me wants a fair and equal classification, so we can avoid the dramatic sea change we saw when 4-strokes made 2-strokes obsolete. The sanctioning bodies got it wrong back in the late '90s, plain and simple. It was the biggest mistake motocross ever made.
The other part of me wants to see the electric motorcycle unceremoniously put a bullet right behind the ear of every thumper on the planet.

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RACING
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8/30/2023 2:46pm

I can relate to the way you feel: I'd truly love to see these whistling electric turds catch fire and go burn in hell.

Laughing

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Falcon
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8/30/2023 4:00pm
RACING wrote:
I can relate to the way you feel: I'd truly love to see these whistling electric turds catch fire and go burn in hell.

I can relate to the way you feel: I'd truly love to see these whistling electric turds catch fire and go burn in hell.

Laughing

Hahaha. Touche'. 

1
8/30/2023 4:19pm
GD350 wrote:
What are these electric bikes adding to the show? I'd say nothing, and actually taking away excitement. Who wants to see these other than the handful...

What are these electric bikes adding to the show? I'd say nothing, and actually taking away excitement. Who wants to see these other than the handful of goobers on this forum who have one? 

It will be a good thing for the sport.


No more sound issues closing tracks down.

 Less maintenance = cheaper to own

Prices will come down like normal electrics

Better power delivery 

The list goes on. 
 

I don’t have one but if they allow them in the Vet Class, I will be one of the “goobers” you speak of. 🤣

8
7
8/30/2023 4:28pm
GD350 wrote:
What are these electric bikes adding to the show? I'd say nothing, and actually taking away excitement. Who wants to see these other than the handful...

What are these electric bikes adding to the show? I'd say nothing, and actually taking away excitement. Who wants to see these other than the handful of goobers on this forum who have one? 

It will be a good thing for the sport. No more sound issues closing tracks down.  Less maintenance = cheaper to own Prices will come down...

It will be a good thing for the sport.


No more sound issues closing tracks down.

 Less maintenance = cheaper to own

Prices will come down like normal electrics

Better power delivery 

The list goes on. 
 

I don’t have one but if they allow them in the Vet Class, I will be one of the “goobers” you speak of. 🤣

Manufacturing costs will go down, but that does no mean the price of bikes will come down, like every other product electric motocross bikes will be sold at a price the market can bear, with 18,000 pre-orders, Stark has shown the market can bear a high price.

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crt32
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8/30/2023 4:41pm
GD350 wrote:
What are these electric bikes adding to the show? I'd say nothing, and actually taking away excitement. Who wants to see these other than the handful...

What are these electric bikes adding to the show? I'd say nothing, and actually taking away excitement. Who wants to see these other than the handful of goobers on this forum who have one? 

It will be a good thing for the sport. No more sound issues closing tracks down.  Less maintenance = cheaper to own Prices will come down...

It will be a good thing for the sport.


No more sound issues closing tracks down.

 Less maintenance = cheaper to own

Prices will come down like normal electrics

Better power delivery 

The list goes on. 
 

I don’t have one but if they allow them in the Vet Class, I will be one of the “goobers” you speak of. 🤣

Manufacturing costs will go down, but that does no mean the price of bikes will come down, like every other product electric motocross bikes will be...

Manufacturing costs will go down, but that does no mean the price of bikes will come down, like every other product electric motocross bikes will be sold at a price the market can bear, with 18,000 pre-orders, Stark has shown the market can bear a high price.

Prices will likely not go down. Batteries are not cheap, and the resources that go into them are not renewable, regardless of what the media tells you. The demand for lithium and other materials will increase if the government forces their use (the market is not) so the prices will have to increase. We aren't talking about a TV, primarily plastic, made in China. 

2
8/30/2023 5:11pm
It will be a good thing for the sport. No more sound issues closing tracks down.  Less maintenance = cheaper to own Prices will come down...

It will be a good thing for the sport.


No more sound issues closing tracks down.

 Less maintenance = cheaper to own

Prices will come down like normal electrics

Better power delivery 

The list goes on. 
 

I don’t have one but if they allow them in the Vet Class, I will be one of the “goobers” you speak of. 🤣

Manufacturing costs will go down, but that does no mean the price of bikes will come down, like every other product electric motocross bikes will be...

Manufacturing costs will go down, but that does no mean the price of bikes will come down, like every other product electric motocross bikes will be sold at a price the market can bear, with 18,000 pre-orders, Stark has shown the market can bear a high price.

crt32 wrote:
Prices will likely not go down. Batteries are not cheap, and the resources that go into them are not renewable, regardless of what the media tells...

Prices will likely not go down. Batteries are not cheap, and the resources that go into them are not renewable, regardless of what the media tells you. The demand for lithium and other materials will increase if the government forces their use (the market is not) so the prices will have to increase. We aren't talking about a TV, primarily plastic, made in China. 

Batteries are cheap, Stark will be paying a lot less than advertised battery prices...

image-20230831100100-1

total battery cost will be less than 10% of the Stark Varg's sale price. The high price of the Varg is not due to the cost of the battery cells, it's the cost of designing and assembling the battery pack.

Like every commodity, when demand increases supply will increase, there are a lot of unexploited lithium resources.

1
8/30/2023 8:15pm
GD350 wrote:
What are these electric bikes adding to the show? I'd say nothing, and actually taking away excitement. Who wants to see these other than the handful...

What are these electric bikes adding to the show? I'd say nothing, and actually taking away excitement. Who wants to see these other than the handful of goobers on this forum who have one? 

It will be a good thing for the sport. No more sound issues closing tracks down.  Less maintenance = cheaper to own Prices will come down...

It will be a good thing for the sport.


No more sound issues closing tracks down.

 Less maintenance = cheaper to own

Prices will come down like normal electrics

Better power delivery 

The list goes on. 
 

I don’t have one but if they allow them in the Vet Class, I will be one of the “goobers” you speak of. 🤣

Don't kid yourself, prices will never go down, Stamp that.

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8/30/2023 9:38pm

Don't kid yourself, prices will never go down, Stamp that.

It’s not the same a engine manufacturing. The batteries and electronics are a HUGE part of the cost. Yes, high end bikes will be expensive but companies will come into the space with more affordable prices. Because they can just pick a motor that is fast, get pre made controllers and then batteries. With in 5 years I bet they will have competitive electric MX bikes for $7000 or less. 

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Moto Nomad
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8/30/2023 9:44pm

The electric is so different in power delivery, it really seems like a different type of racing. There's room for new types of motorcycle sport, but I'd hate to see ICE bikes disappear. We all know why.

2
8/30/2023 10:34pm

Don't kid yourself, prices will never go down, Stamp that.

It’s not the same a engine manufacturing. The batteries and electronics are a HUGE part of the cost. Yes, high end bikes will be expensive but...

It’s not the same a engine manufacturing. The batteries and electronics are a HUGE part of the cost. Yes, high end bikes will be expensive but companies will come into the space with more affordable prices. Because they can just pick a motor that is fast, get pre made controllers and then batteries. With in 5 years I bet they will have competitive electric MX bikes for $7000 or less. 

"pre made controllers and then batteries"

You're kidding right?

Manufacturers are using standardized battery packs for scooters, but motocross bikes are used for racing, manufacturers will design and manufacture them in-house.

1
8/31/2023 1:28am

Don't kid yourself, prices will never go down, Stamp that.

It’s not the same a engine manufacturing. The batteries and electronics are a HUGE part of the cost. Yes, high end bikes will be expensive but...

It’s not the same a engine manufacturing. The batteries and electronics are a HUGE part of the cost. Yes, high end bikes will be expensive but companies will come into the space with more affordable prices. Because they can just pick a motor that is fast, get pre made controllers and then batteries. With in 5 years I bet they will have competitive electric MX bikes for $7000 or less. 

"pre made controllers and then batteries" You're kidding right? Manufacturers are using standardized battery packs for scooters, but motocross bikes are used for racing, manufacturers will...

"pre made controllers and then batteries"

You're kidding right?

Manufacturers are using standardized battery packs for scooters, but motocross bikes are used for racing, manufacturers will design and manufacture them in-house.

The battery cells are basically all the same. The controller technology is basically the same and computers ALWAYS get easier. 

2
8/31/2023 1:48am Edited Date/Time 8/31/2023 1:48am
It’s not the same a engine manufacturing. The batteries and electronics are a HUGE part of the cost. Yes, high end bikes will be expensive but...

It’s not the same a engine manufacturing. The batteries and electronics are a HUGE part of the cost. Yes, high end bikes will be expensive but companies will come into the space with more affordable prices. Because they can just pick a motor that is fast, get pre made controllers and then batteries. With in 5 years I bet they will have competitive electric MX bikes for $7000 or less. 

"pre made controllers and then batteries" You're kidding right? Manufacturers are using standardized battery packs for scooters, but motocross bikes are used for racing, manufacturers will...

"pre made controllers and then batteries"

You're kidding right?

Manufacturers are using standardized battery packs for scooters, but motocross bikes are used for racing, manufacturers will design and manufacture them in-house.

The battery cells are basically all the same. The controller technology is basically the same and computers ALWAYS get easier. 

You're obviously not an electrical engineer!

2
8/31/2023 9:21am

Don't kid yourself, prices will never go down, Stamp that.

It’s not the same a engine manufacturing. The batteries and electronics are a HUGE part of the cost. Yes, high end bikes will be expensive but...

It’s not the same a engine manufacturing. The batteries and electronics are a HUGE part of the cost. Yes, high end bikes will be expensive but companies will come into the space with more affordable prices. Because they can just pick a motor that is fast, get pre made controllers and then batteries. With in 5 years I bet they will have competitive electric MX bikes for $7000 or less. 

"pre made controllers and then batteries" You're kidding right? Manufacturers are using standardized battery packs for scooters, but motocross bikes are used for racing, manufacturers will...

"pre made controllers and then batteries"

You're kidding right?

Manufacturers are using standardized battery packs for scooters, but motocross bikes are used for racing, manufacturers will design and manufacture them in-house.

Look at the model electric MTB's have as far as picking a motor ,battery and controller.  And yes Stark said they pre sold 18K bikes at that price. But what if they could sell 100k bikes at $10K . How many people would buy a Varg if they cost less than a Gas 450? 

   Years down the road, If You have multiple brands building electric MX bikes that also use the controllers,motors and batteries  in other less demanding  types of motorcycles . All it takes is one of them to offer a base model  for $7K  and then others will follow if people decide they want  a cheaper alternative. Look at the Varg, the 60Hp and 80Hp bikes are the same except for the programing that allows the bike to put out 80HP.  It will cost less to develop one high demand power system and then tune it down with software for street motorcycles or  other  less demanding applications.    

 And while the demand dictates price to a degree, there is also the point at which it makes more money to sell a customer a new bike instead of just selling them parts. Increasing the demand by reducing the price.  Like  big TVs . If all of a sudden everybody can afford a  Varg  that may want one. They could sell a lot more and make more money by dropping the price.   Who wouldn't buy a new bike every year, or every 6 months if money was no object? Stark has said they developed the MX bike because it would be the most demanding use. And they plan on building other bikes.  What if Stark starts to manufacture the motors,controller's and batteries for a company that makes and sells 100's of thousands of street motorcycles?  Now the cost of engineering those motors and controllers per unit has dropped dramatically.

 

With any kind of manufacturing the more of the items You make, the less each item will cost up to a certain point. If You can spread out the development and tooling costs over a larger number of units, You can sell them for less each and make more money overall. I could see a world that has dirt bikes from different brands that use the same or similar motors built by a few bigger companies. Like how a KTM comes with WP suspension,   Renthal ODI or whoever makes their bars now, etc.  The motor, controller and battery would be another component.        

9
Beagle
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9/1/2023 1:17pm

If you want to see a bit of the SX tour here is the vid from the last round, at the 15:45 mark you can even catch a glimpse of the Varg during the SX2 finale.

 

 

Tomorrow it's round 4, we'll see if Thomas Do can improve on his 6th place and the Varg will be racing in SX1 for the first time!

1
1
9/1/2023 2:39pm
Beagle wrote:
If you want to see a bit of the SX tour here is the vid from the last round, at the 15:45 mark you can even...

If you want to see a bit of the SX tour here is the vid from the last round, at the 15:45 mark you can even catch a glimpse of the Varg during the SX2 finale.

 

 

Tomorrow it's round 4, we'll see if Thomas Do can improve on his 6th place and the Varg will be racing in SX1 for the first time!

Thanks for sharing!

1
Beagle
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9/2/2023 1:09pm

SX tour round 4 is on. Motoverte said Tonus would ride the Varg in SX1 but for some reason he's not?

It's Thomas Do second event on the Varg in SX2 (limited to 48 hp), he qualified with the 2nd time (would have been 6th time in SX1, not bad). He finished 3rd in his semi-finale, awaiting the main race.

2
9/2/2023 1:35pm
Beagle wrote:
If you want to see a bit of the SX tour here is the vid from the last round, at the 15:45 mark you can even...

If you want to see a bit of the SX tour here is the vid from the last round, at the 15:45 mark you can even catch a glimpse of the Varg during the SX2 finale.

 

 

Tomorrow it's round 4, we'll see if Thomas Do can improve on his 6th place and the Varg will be racing in SX1 for the first time!

Do they post it anywhere in English? 

2
Beagle
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9/2/2023 1:51pm

Do they post it anywhere in English? 

No idea but I doubt it, you know it's low key, their vids have 1 to 10 K views, I think that's very cool they're doing it but it's a very niche sport, you'll never see anything on tv or in the news so they're not investing for international audiences.

Beagle
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9/2/2023 2:47pm

Do finished a lonely 5th in the main race.

He was running 5th, then 4th for a moment. He lost 7s in the 6th lap, dropping to 7th before regaining 5th place a couple laps later (I think the 2 guys in front of him had some racing incident).

Maxime Desprey is on fire, he won all races so far this year.

Encouraging to see that Do was able to run laptimes similar to the guys ending 2nd to 4th. I guess he still needs to know the bike better to keep his rythm during the race.

9/3/2023 1:20am

Do they post it anywhere in English? 

Beagle wrote:
No idea but I doubt it, you know it's low key, their vids have 1 to 10 K views, I think that's very cool they're doing...

No idea but I doubt it, you know it's low key, their vids have 1 to 10 K views, I think that's very cool they're doing it but it's a very niche sport, you'll never see anything on tv or in the news so they're not investing for international audiences.

They are missing out. 

2

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