Rich Men North of Richmond

borg
Posts
6670
Joined
12/7/2009
Location
Long Beach, CA US
8/23/2023 8:52am Edited Date/Time 8/23/2023 8:53am
borg wrote:
I don't know about being upset but half of what he's saying is just the same old tired crap about the man keeping him down. I'm...

I don't know about being upset but half of what he's saying is just the same old tired crap about the man keeping him down. I'm probably the one of the poorest vitards on this board and I never felt that way for 1 second of my life. Part of what he says about politicians is spot on and he sings really well. Puts his heart into it. His guitar sounds like shit though. He dropped out of school at 17, well, I beat him by 2 years. Who's goddam fault is that? Then he goes on about a dead end job. Reminds me of a story:

2 guy were swinging picks on a railroad track when a big black car rolls up. A guy in suit steps out says hi to one of the pick swingers and calls him by name. The other guy says, "you know him?" He says yup. We both got our jobs here for 75 cents an hour on the same day about 10 years ago. The other guy says "then why are you still swinging a pick and he's a big shot?" He says" because I went to work for 75 cents an hour and he went to work for the railroad."

Titan1 wrote:
I actually agree with that…trying to blames one’s life circumstances on anyone but themself rubs me the wrong way.  I don’t like that he’s blaming the...

I actually agree with that…trying to blames one’s life circumstances on anyone but themself rubs me the wrong way.  I don’t like that he’s blaming the “rich men” for his circumstances…your life is what you make of it, no excuses, no one else to blame.

 

so I don’t actually care much for the lyrics of the song…even though I agree with some of the lyrics.

JM485 wrote:
I agree with taking personal responsibility, but I think it's also important to understand the problems and roadblocks that have intentionally been put into place to...

I agree with taking personal responsibility, but I think it's also important to understand the problems and roadblocks that have intentionally been put into place to make prosperity harder and harder for most Americans.  I've been trying to buy a house (I know this was hashed beyond the point of being useful in previous threads) and it's honestly been the most frustrating experience of my life, all I do is work harder and I get further and further away with every passing year.  It's absolutely not my fault that the government almost doubled our money supply in the span of two years to pump asset prices up in a desperate attempt to give people the illusion of increased wealth, nor was it my fault when these same crooks jacked interest rates up at the highest speed in history making mortgages completely unaffordable.  It's also not my fault that over half of my paycheck is stolen from me to fund foreign wars, ineffective and wasteful programs, and other people's retirement.  In the end will it stop me?  Hopefully not, but I'll tell you the fuck what not a night goes by that I don't curse the bastards that are purposely making my life a hell of a lot harder than it needs to be, and one day they'll be accountable.  

 

That's my personal story and why this song resonates with me, I'm sure others have similar or even vastly different ones that make this song resonate with them, but at the end of the day I think a lot of us feel like we're working harder than ever while getting further and further away from our goals.  My view is that it's time for the rich men north of Richmond to stop trying to "engineer" an economy while lining their pockets with our tax money and stealing our purchasing power away.  

There are very few people that can afford to buy a house in a lot of areas in California. If interest rates are keeping you from buying a house then you would have been screwed when I bought mine in 1980. Mortgage rates were between 13 and 17%.  The idea that you cant buy a house because someone is preventing you from doing so needs a better explanation than your post provides to be credible.

 

1
1
8/23/2023 9:00am
Titan1 wrote:
I agree that it is more difficult for some people than others…I’m a first generation college graduate (who didn’t qualify for any scholarships, so I had...

I agree that it is more difficult for some people than others…I’m a first generation college graduate (who didn’t qualify for any scholarships, so I had to pay my own way and go the community college route), and the son of coal miner.  My road wasn’t paved for me…it was hard work.  But possible.  And I’m not some model success story…but income wise more successful than most Americans, but I’m far from what I would consider “rich” (at least not yet).  

 

as for buying a home…the fed isn’t raising mortgage rates, and therefore isn’t directly affecting mortgage rates. The fed is raising the fed funds rate (the rate at which banks borrow money from each other) and the discount rate (the rate at which banks borrow money from the fed).   Mortgage rates are where they are because of market forces,  and largely inflation, which makes fixed yield investments (like Bonds and Mortgage backed securities-the latter of which actually does directly affect mortgage rates) an unattractive investment, which kills the demand for them and therefore lowers value/price of them and drives the yield up (and mortgage rates are based on the yield of MBS’s).  which is a direct result of the fed printing more money.  The fed does have an indirect affect on mortgage rates…just like the unemployment rate, and Apple’s stock price, and the quarterly earnings of Amazon, and North Korea shooting a missile over Japan, and Brexit and a bunch of other things have an indirect affect on mortgage rates.  There is no conspiracy by “the man” to raise rates to prevent the little guy from buying a house. 
 

Plus, it’s all perspective, the historical average for mortgage rates is about 7%, right about where they are now.  It’s only because they were so low that we think 7% is a bad deal.  I know, I know, but home prices have never been this high…and that’s true, but they are this high because of demand, not some government conspiracy, or because “the man” is putting road blocks in place to prevent the little guy from buying a home.  It’s supply and demand and basic economics.  

Homes, like movie tickets, and a loaf of bread, and everything else is more expensive than past decades.  
 

Yeah, I know what you’re going to say, “but wages haven’t kept up”…again, market forces…employers pay as little as possible…and they will always do that.  If people are willing to work for what they are paying, then why would they raise their prices?  They won’t,  nor should they.  Again, it’s not some government conspiracy to prevent the little guy from prospering.  If someone doesn’t feel like they are making enough money, don’t complain about it…take control of what they can control, improve their resume, look for a different job, change careers, start a business, etc etc…don’t sit and blame anyone else.   
 

Anyway…I just can’t handle the “blamers”…totally rubs me the wrong way.  I just don’t like it.  

JM485 wrote:
Spare me the lecture, I'm more intimately familiar with these market dynamics then you think and your assumption of my ignorance isn't helping your case.  I...

Spare me the lecture, I'm more intimately familiar with these market dynamics then you think and your assumption of my ignorance isn't helping your case.  I simplified some correlations in my original post without going through all of the intermediary steps so it wasn't a mile long, and they're really not relevant to the point I was making. 

 

What you forgot to include in your summary of how we got here, either intentionally or not, was the fact that prior to this historic interest rate hike "they" artificially kept interest rates incredibly low for over a decade.  While money was essentially free (especially immediately following the pandemic), many wealthier people and large investment funds bought up inventory like a fire sale and made it absolutely impossible for an average person to compete in the market, and anyone with half a brain refinanced their existing mortgage to a 3% loan.  Now that everyone has their existing mortgages all wrapped up at a nice 3% rate, nobody is selling (and why would they when a new mortgage is over double their current rate), so supply is incredibly low, thus keeping prices elevated even during a high interest rate environment.  This is why the comparison to historical rates is irrelevant, this market dynamic has never existed before today.  You can say this is supply and demand all you want, but the reality is that markets don't naturally double their effective cost basis in the span of 24 months, that's manipulation.

 

I'm sure you'll say, "oh but the Fed is an independent entity".  Ya, sure, if you think they're not one with the federal government I've got some pristine ocean front property in Kansas for you as well.  These people know exactly what they're doing, raising asset prices artificially to preserve their wealth and trick people into believing this country is still prosperous while real GDP remains flat.  Do you think it's a natural market dynamic for an investment fund to own 60% percent of single family homes in some towns?  Do you think it's a natural market dynamic for rates to swing wildly from 3% to 8% in a span of 12 months?  Do you think it's a natural market dynamic for home and other asset prices to appreciate in the double digits year after year?  There is a clear agenda at play here, this isn't a free market anymore it's a manipulated game.  I have no problem competing in a market, but the rules need to be fair and the deck shouldn't be stacked against you.

 

You can dismiss me as a whiney little bitch all you want but I know how hard I hustle and I know that what's happening isn't just a feature of a free market.  Anyway, I just can't handle the people who want to ignore government meddling in markets, just rubs me the wrong way. . .

Chance1216 wrote:
I’m in the same boat as you. A lot of people are. This is affordable housing 😂 

I’m in the same boat as you. A lot of people are.
This is affordable housing 😂 

F39EDC1E-A4A6-4749-813C-FDCA13ED86E5.jpeg?VersionId=7HGlGwqYRLah4e 0KOK7f

But it comes with a tool cart which you'll need during the fix up, and a trash can to get rid of the stuff you don't need.

2
1
8/23/2023 9:07am
TDeath21 wrote:
It is pretty insane that most of the the conservatives on this site, which is 90+% of the commenters in anything politics related in non moto...

It is pretty insane that most of the the conservatives on this site, which is 90+% of the commenters in anything politics related in non moto, have nothing as far as civil conversation goes. Just memes and insults. All they want to do is live in their little echo chamber where 0 opposing views are ever found.

Just take a peek at the recent comments here. Wild.

"It is pretty insane that most of the the conservatives on this site, which is 90+% of the commenters in anything politics related in non moto, have nothing as far as civil conversation goes. Just memes and insults."

Do you think it might have something to do with you posting the same false talking points a google # of times and wondering why you just get a meme as a response?

5
6

The Shop

8/23/2023 9:19am
borg wrote:
There are very few people that can afford to buy a house in a lot of areas in California. If interest rates are keeping you from...

There are very few people that can afford to buy a house in a lot of areas in California. If interest rates are keeping you from buying a house then you would have been screwed when I bought mine in 1980. Mortgage rates were between 13 and 17%.  The idea that you cant buy a house because someone is preventing you from doing so needs a better explanation than your post provides to be credible.

 

To be fair Borg, even that the interest rates were higher when you purchased your home. If you took the price of your home and divided it by your annual income, you'd have a much different number than doing that today. I remember one of my friends when I was young bought his house and had a $1,500 monthly payment and thinking to myself, how the hell can someone afford that? A house today is at between 5-10 times the price it was when you bought. And chances are better than not that you bought your house at a discount because the previous owner had an ARM and couldn't pay the payments and had to give it up at a discount. For the kids today, it's the cost of the house + the interest + taxes + HOA dues + insurance (homeowners and mortgage) + maintenance

It's a different world. Today when people lose their house, institutions come in and buy for cash taking that off the market keeping the prices high for what's left. Kids have very little chance of buying without help from their parents. And yes there are exceptions, but exceptions never make for a good rule

2
borg
Posts
6670
Joined
12/7/2009
Location
Long Beach, CA US
8/23/2023 11:34am
borg wrote:
There are very few people that can afford to buy a house in a lot of areas in California. If interest rates are keeping you from...

There are very few people that can afford to buy a house in a lot of areas in California. If interest rates are keeping you from buying a house then you would have been screwed when I bought mine in 1980. Mortgage rates were between 13 and 17%.  The idea that you cant buy a house because someone is preventing you from doing so needs a better explanation than your post provides to be credible.

 

ToolMaker wrote:
To be fair Borg, even that the interest rates were higher when you purchased your home. If you took the price of your home and divided...

To be fair Borg, even that the interest rates were higher when you purchased your home. If you took the price of your home and divided it by your annual income, you'd have a much different number than doing that today. I remember one of my friends when I was young bought his house and had a $1,500 monthly payment and thinking to myself, how the hell can someone afford that? A house today is at between 5-10 times the price it was when you bought. And chances are better than not that you bought your house at a discount because the previous owner had an ARM and couldn't pay the payments and had to give it up at a discount. For the kids today, it's the cost of the house + the interest + taxes + HOA dues + insurance (homeowners and mortgage) + maintenance

It's a different world. Today when people lose their house, institutions come in and buy for cash taking that off the market keeping the prices high for what's left. Kids have very little chance of buying without help from their parents. And yes there are exceptions, but exceptions never make for a good rule

Not quite following your logic there. You can either afford to buy in the area you picked or you cant.

I didn't buy from a distressed owner. It was actually the opposite. They were moving to a larger house in a nicer area. I paid the going price for that house, for that time and the area. 20% down with some help from a parent plus a small second to cover the balance on the down.

We also had to pay the interest, taxes, insurance and maintenance.

My son could not afford to buy anywhere near where I live. He was offered a job in South Carolina and took it. 6 months later he bought a 2 bed 2 bath house on a large lot in a great area and paid $160,000 for it without any help from me or his wife's family. At some point he will be making more money and will be able to afford a nicer house somewhere. He didn't complain or blame somebody else because he couldn't buy a house in Long Beach.

You want to buy in California now and you are unable to afford it, why is that someone else's fault? Which was what JM485 was suggesting. 

 

2
Titan1
Posts
9409
Joined
2/3/2010
Location
Lehi, UT US
8/23/2023 11:49am
borg wrote:
There are very few people that can afford to buy a house in a lot of areas in California. If interest rates are keeping you from...

There are very few people that can afford to buy a house in a lot of areas in California. If interest rates are keeping you from buying a house then you would have been screwed when I bought mine in 1980. Mortgage rates were between 13 and 17%.  The idea that you cant buy a house because someone is preventing you from doing so needs a better explanation than your post provides to be credible.

 

ToolMaker wrote:
To be fair Borg, even that the interest rates were higher when you purchased your home. If you took the price of your home and divided...

To be fair Borg, even that the interest rates were higher when you purchased your home. If you took the price of your home and divided it by your annual income, you'd have a much different number than doing that today. I remember one of my friends when I was young bought his house and had a $1,500 monthly payment and thinking to myself, how the hell can someone afford that? A house today is at between 5-10 times the price it was when you bought. And chances are better than not that you bought your house at a discount because the previous owner had an ARM and couldn't pay the payments and had to give it up at a discount. For the kids today, it's the cost of the house + the interest + taxes + HOA dues + insurance (homeowners and mortgage) + maintenance

It's a different world. Today when people lose their house, institutions come in and buy for cash taking that off the market keeping the prices high for what's left. Kids have very little chance of buying without help from their parents. And yes there are exceptions, but exceptions never make for a good rule

borg wrote:
Not quite following your logic there. You can either afford to buy in the area you picked or you cant. I didn't buy from a distressed...

Not quite following your logic there. You can either afford to buy in the area you picked or you cant.

I didn't buy from a distressed owner. It was actually the opposite. They were moving to a larger house in a nicer area. I paid the going price for that house, for that time and the area. 20% down with some help from a parent plus a small second to cover the balance on the down.

We also had to pay the interest, taxes, insurance and maintenance.

My son could not afford to buy anywhere near where I live. He was offered a job in South Carolina and took it. 6 months later he bought a 2 bed 2 bath house on a large lot in a great area and paid $160,000 for it without any help from me or his wife's family. At some point he will be making more money and will be able to afford a nicer house somewhere. He didn't complain or blame somebody else because he couldn't buy a house in Long Beach.

You want to buy in California now and you are unable to afford it, why is that someone else's fault? Which was what JM485 was suggesting. 

 

Careful Borg...you're about to get blasted by chance...he thinks everyone should be able to buy a home in the most expensive markets in America and if they can't its because the "man" is trying to hold him down. 

6
Chance1216
Posts
8348
Joined
4/1/2018
Location
Carson, CA US
8/23/2023 12:22pm
ToolMaker wrote:
To be fair Borg, even that the interest rates were higher when you purchased your home. If you took the price of your home and divided...

To be fair Borg, even that the interest rates were higher when you purchased your home. If you took the price of your home and divided it by your annual income, you'd have a much different number than doing that today. I remember one of my friends when I was young bought his house and had a $1,500 monthly payment and thinking to myself, how the hell can someone afford that? A house today is at between 5-10 times the price it was when you bought. And chances are better than not that you bought your house at a discount because the previous owner had an ARM and couldn't pay the payments and had to give it up at a discount. For the kids today, it's the cost of the house + the interest + taxes + HOA dues + insurance (homeowners and mortgage) + maintenance

It's a different world. Today when people lose their house, institutions come in and buy for cash taking that off the market keeping the prices high for what's left. Kids have very little chance of buying without help from their parents. And yes there are exceptions, but exceptions never make for a good rule

borg wrote:
Not quite following your logic there. You can either afford to buy in the area you picked or you cant. I didn't buy from a distressed...

Not quite following your logic there. You can either afford to buy in the area you picked or you cant.

I didn't buy from a distressed owner. It was actually the opposite. They were moving to a larger house in a nicer area. I paid the going price for that house, for that time and the area. 20% down with some help from a parent plus a small second to cover the balance on the down.

We also had to pay the interest, taxes, insurance and maintenance.

My son could not afford to buy anywhere near where I live. He was offered a job in South Carolina and took it. 6 months later he bought a 2 bed 2 bath house on a large lot in a great area and paid $160,000 for it without any help from me or his wife's family. At some point he will be making more money and will be able to afford a nicer house somewhere. He didn't complain or blame somebody else because he couldn't buy a house in Long Beach.

You want to buy in California now and you are unable to afford it, why is that someone else's fault? Which was what JM485 was suggesting. 

 

Titan1 wrote:
Careful Borg...you're about to get blasted by chance...he thinks everyone should be able to buy a home in the most expensive markets in America and if...

Careful Borg...you're about to get blasted by chance...he thinks everyone should be able to buy a home in the most expensive markets in America and if they can't its because the "man" is trying to hold him down. 

Haha. Such a clown. You got it all figured out don’t ya. 
In reality, I can’t afford what I want with 130k annual income So, I’m making arrangements to start my own plumbing  business. It might take a year or, two for everything to level out but, I’m not sitting on my hands watching the market continually climb out of reach.
 

Hence, my comment about lenders being more hesitant giving money to small businesses. 

On the contrary. I actually have a lot of respect for Borg.

Now, get back to stroking that ego of yours. 


 

 

4
8/23/2023 12:36pm
borg wrote:
There are very few people that can afford to buy a house in a lot of areas in California. If interest rates are keeping you from...

There are very few people that can afford to buy a house in a lot of areas in California. If interest rates are keeping you from buying a house then you would have been screwed when I bought mine in 1980. Mortgage rates were between 13 and 17%.  The idea that you cant buy a house because someone is preventing you from doing so needs a better explanation than your post provides to be credible.

 

I can’t speak for him but what I can speak on is the cost of housing vs. cost of living. Noticed you live in LB. I was born and raised there. My grandfather was a manager an auto parts store in North LB and my grandma worked at the Broadway. The were able to buy a house and raise 6 kids with those jobs. If I was a manager at Autozone and my wife worked at Macys, we’d be struggling in an apartment. Interest rates aside, my grandparents paid $12,500 for their house in Los Altos. It sold for $900k. No way that Autozone/department store is covering that mortgage. 

2
8/23/2023 12:37pm
borg wrote:
There are very few people that can afford to buy a house in a lot of areas in California. If interest rates are keeping you from...

There are very few people that can afford to buy a house in a lot of areas in California. If interest rates are keeping you from buying a house then you would have been screwed when I bought mine in 1980. Mortgage rates were between 13 and 17%.  The idea that you cant buy a house because someone is preventing you from doing so needs a better explanation than your post provides to be credible.

 

ToolMaker wrote:
To be fair Borg, even that the interest rates were higher when you purchased your home. If you took the price of your home and divided...

To be fair Borg, even that the interest rates were higher when you purchased your home. If you took the price of your home and divided it by your annual income, you'd have a much different number than doing that today. I remember one of my friends when I was young bought his house and had a $1,500 monthly payment and thinking to myself, how the hell can someone afford that? A house today is at between 5-10 times the price it was when you bought. And chances are better than not that you bought your house at a discount because the previous owner had an ARM and couldn't pay the payments and had to give it up at a discount. For the kids today, it's the cost of the house + the interest + taxes + HOA dues + insurance (homeowners and mortgage) + maintenance

It's a different world. Today when people lose their house, institutions come in and buy for cash taking that off the market keeping the prices high for what's left. Kids have very little chance of buying without help from their parents. And yes there are exceptions, but exceptions never make for a good rule

borg wrote:
Not quite following your logic there. You can either afford to buy in the area you picked or you cant. I didn't buy from a distressed...

Not quite following your logic there. You can either afford to buy in the area you picked or you cant.

I didn't buy from a distressed owner. It was actually the opposite. They were moving to a larger house in a nicer area. I paid the going price for that house, for that time and the area. 20% down with some help from a parent plus a small second to cover the balance on the down.

We also had to pay the interest, taxes, insurance and maintenance.

My son could not afford to buy anywhere near where I live. He was offered a job in South Carolina and took it. 6 months later he bought a 2 bed 2 bath house on a large lot in a great area and paid $160,000 for it without any help from me or his wife's family. At some point he will be making more money and will be able to afford a nicer house somewhere. He didn't complain or blame somebody else because he couldn't buy a house in Long Beach.

You want to buy in California now and you are unable to afford it, why is that someone else's fault? Which was what JM485 was suggesting. 

 

I'm saying the market is different. You used to be able to get a job in the area that you could pay a mortgage and live your life. The cost of a starter home in this area is probably 10 times what it was when you bought. However the wages are not 10X what they were when you bought. It's a different dynamic. But, I agree with you, if you can't afford it, look where you have a better chance to buy a home. Or rent and don't complain because that's your choice. But if you choose to live here and rent, you should probably have a job that you can pay your rent and save for the future, or it's a bad choice on your part. Living in CA is expensive, not everyone can afford it. If I sold my house for the going rate, neither of my kids could afford it. And they make better money than I did at their age.

Companies just don't pay a wage that's ratioed to the cost of living like they did when we were young. And Titan is not entirely correct about just finding another job if your company doesn't give a proper raise. Who wants to go from getting a 3 week vacation back to getting a 1 week vacation for a $5hr raise? There are other things to consider.

2
JM485
Posts
5789
Joined
10/1/2013
Location
Davis, CA US
8/23/2023 12:43pm
Titan1 wrote:
Forgive me for underestimating your knowledge in this area...your post was full of assumptions and talking points I, literally, have to correct on a daily bases...

Forgive me for underestimating your knowledge in this area...your post was full of assumptions and talking points I, literally, have to correct on a daily bases with people...so I read those, and mistakenly assumed you were less knowledgeable about the subject than you are.  My apologies for any offense taken. 

You are right, mortgage rates were artificially low (due to quantitative easing, largely) and we are feeling the affects of that in the inventory market right now, as well as home values. 
You are right, businesses and wealthy people did start buying up single family homes as investments, and that did have an affect on values.
I wish the government would just let the market do its thing, and stop trying to manipulate it (with bail-outs, stimulus checks, tax code, etc.)

So, I guess our point of disagreement is, really, over motive...

I think the fed/government did what they did in reaction to the economy and the pandemic to-right or not, agree or disagree-try and help...not out of some sinister motive to keep the little man down.  And the markets (rates, the fed, inflation, etc and thus wall street) reacted how they reacted. 
I think corporations/wealthy people started buying up residential real estate because they saw a great investment opportunity...not because they were trying to prevent lower income folks from buying a home (and the market-home values) reacted how they reacted.
I think wall street did what they did in reaction to the market...not because they want to keep lower income people from succeeding.

Though I acknowledge that the government and the fed did affect why we are where we are...I just don't see it as a conspiracy, or sinister plan to keep the little guy down. 

So we can agree on a lot...and I think we just disagree on the motive of the parties that have influenced the market over the past decade or so.   

This is all affecting me, probably, far more than its affecting you.  (Speaking specifically about housing/interest rates/real estate). You are having a hard time buying a home...My business is down nearly 50% from 2020, and down nearly 30% from "normal" (the past 20 years)...any business taking that kind of hit isn't going to be fun (and its not)...I just choose not to blame anyone else, and blame myself and go to work to fix it.  I should have seen this coming, I should have planned better for a downturn, I should have made strategic marketing changes to hedge against this, I should have diversified my client pool, I should have done more to sure up strategic business relationships, etc. etc. (in hind-site, I made a lot of mistakes)...  Now I'm feeling a STEEP decline in business.  Its my own fault, nobody else's.  And I'm working as hard as I can to make the necessary changes to pull myself out of it.  And I will.  I'll take my lumps, learn from it, and be better for it.  But I won't blame anyone but myself for my situation.

Whether we agree on the motives or not, the important part is we agree on the cause and the solution.  I understand the mindset of only blaming yourself, but at the same time we have to acknowledge the causes and who is accountable for the changes that are putting us in this situation.  You very well may have accounted for a downturn in a perfect world, but this isn't a natural nor normal downturn, so it's hard to plan for a consistently moving goal post.  I truly believe that this is just another step towards forcing people to be more reliant on the government, because let's face it, it's a lot harder to control people who own their property.  I try to turn inward and do what I can but at some point enough people are going to have enough of this, I shouldn't have to work a full time engineering job, plus take on side work, plus run a small side company just to have the extended chance at owning a very basic home, that's just not a sustainable situation.  I really don't like Tucker but he had it right when he said it's not shocking more and more young people are turning towards socialism as they see a capitalist system that's not providing them the same opportunities their parents or grandparents had, if we keep ignoring this problem there are going to be more and more that turn that way and before you know it this country will be following the European model.  I don't want that, I doubt that you want that either, so I think there are very real reasons to consider external factors in this situation.

 

Either way we're batting for the same team here, I needed to vent and got it out and I'm glad we can come to an understanding. 

JM485
Posts
5789
Joined
10/1/2013
Location
Davis, CA US
8/23/2023 12:54pm
borg wrote:
Not quite following your logic there. You can either afford to buy in the area you picked or you cant. I didn't buy from a distressed...

Not quite following your logic there. You can either afford to buy in the area you picked or you cant.

I didn't buy from a distressed owner. It was actually the opposite. They were moving to a larger house in a nicer area. I paid the going price for that house, for that time and the area. 20% down with some help from a parent plus a small second to cover the balance on the down.

We also had to pay the interest, taxes, insurance and maintenance.

My son could not afford to buy anywhere near where I live. He was offered a job in South Carolina and took it. 6 months later he bought a 2 bed 2 bath house on a large lot in a great area and paid $160,000 for it without any help from me or his wife's family. At some point he will be making more money and will be able to afford a nicer house somewhere. He didn't complain or blame somebody else because he couldn't buy a house in Long Beach.

You want to buy in California now and you are unable to afford it, why is that someone else's fault? Which was what JM485 was suggesting. 

 

As I already explained, you weren't fighting off cash buyers and multi billion dollar investment funds, or historically low supply when you bought your house in 1980.  This is a completely different market then it was in the past, if it gives you an ego boost to pretend everything is the same as when you were young and I'm just lazy/stupid for not figuring it out then more power to you.  For perspective, in order to save up 20% down for a $400k house (low for CA, but this is around national average) that's nearly $100k, much more than most Americans make in an entire year (before taxes even).  Does that sound like a rational market to you?

 

Here is a chart to prove my point regarding supply if you are interested:

https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/total-housing-inventory

Titan1
Posts
9409
Joined
2/3/2010
Location
Lehi, UT US
8/23/2023 1:23pm
borg wrote:
Not quite following your logic there. You can either afford to buy in the area you picked or you cant. I didn't buy from a distressed...

Not quite following your logic there. You can either afford to buy in the area you picked or you cant.

I didn't buy from a distressed owner. It was actually the opposite. They were moving to a larger house in a nicer area. I paid the going price for that house, for that time and the area. 20% down with some help from a parent plus a small second to cover the balance on the down.

We also had to pay the interest, taxes, insurance and maintenance.

My son could not afford to buy anywhere near where I live. He was offered a job in South Carolina and took it. 6 months later he bought a 2 bed 2 bath house on a large lot in a great area and paid $160,000 for it without any help from me or his wife's family. At some point he will be making more money and will be able to afford a nicer house somewhere. He didn't complain or blame somebody else because he couldn't buy a house in Long Beach.

You want to buy in California now and you are unable to afford it, why is that someone else's fault? Which was what JM485 was suggesting. 

 

Titan1 wrote:
Careful Borg...you're about to get blasted by chance...he thinks everyone should be able to buy a home in the most expensive markets in America and if...

Careful Borg...you're about to get blasted by chance...he thinks everyone should be able to buy a home in the most expensive markets in America and if they can't its because the "man" is trying to hold him down. 

Chance1216 wrote:
Haha. Such a clown. You got it all figured out don’t ya.  In reality, I can’t afford what I want with 130k annual income So, I’m...

Haha. Such a clown. You got it all figured out don’t ya. 
In reality, I can’t afford what I want with 130k annual income So, I’m making arrangements to start my own plumbing  business. It might take a year or, two for everything to level out but, I’m not sitting on my hands watching the market continually climb out of reach.
 

Hence, my comment about lenders being more hesitant giving money to small businesses. 

On the contrary. I actually have a lot of respect for Borg.

Now, get back to stroking that ego of yours. 


 

 

Well, for what its worth (I know you don't care much for me or my opinion, so its not worth much to you) I applaud and respect you for starting a business to change your circumstances so you can get what you want out of your life. 

3
Chance1216
Posts
8348
Joined
4/1/2018
Location
Carson, CA US
8/23/2023 1:45pm
Titan1 wrote:
Careful Borg...you're about to get blasted by chance...he thinks everyone should be able to buy a home in the most expensive markets in America and if...

Careful Borg...you're about to get blasted by chance...he thinks everyone should be able to buy a home in the most expensive markets in America and if they can't its because the "man" is trying to hold him down. 

Chance1216 wrote:
Haha. Such a clown. You got it all figured out don’t ya.  In reality, I can’t afford what I want with 130k annual income So, I’m...

Haha. Such a clown. You got it all figured out don’t ya. 
In reality, I can’t afford what I want with 130k annual income So, I’m making arrangements to start my own plumbing  business. It might take a year or, two for everything to level out but, I’m not sitting on my hands watching the market continually climb out of reach.
 

Hence, my comment about lenders being more hesitant giving money to small businesses. 

On the contrary. I actually have a lot of respect for Borg.

Now, get back to stroking that ego of yours. 


 

 

Titan1 wrote:
Well, for what its worth (I know you don't care much for me or my opinion, so its not worth much to you) I applaud and...

Well, for what its worth (I know you don't care much for me or my opinion, so its not worth much to you) I applaud and respect you for starting a business to change your circumstances so you can get what you want out of your life. 

Never said that. It’s simply difference of opinions. 
The only thing I’ve seen is things are harder than ever for people to get into homes.

Circumstances have changed dramatically in just five years. It’s not easy and, it’s  frustrating. 400k five years ago would’ve gotten a person a 2400 sq ft house. Now, you’re lucky to find a 900 sq ft house that needs a full remodel for that price. 
 

A person who breaks their back and, works their fingers to the bone in a trade that pays very well shouldn’t struggle for homeownership is really the only opinion I have. 

4
1
Shiftfaced
Posts
859
Joined
12/15/2008
Location
Ruby Ridge, ID US
8/24/2023 7:05am Edited Date/Time 8/24/2023 7:06am

I heard an interview from him yesterday, talking about “our differences make us stronger”, and that the US of A is the big “melting pot”, and I thought it was a great interview.

 

https://www.newsweek.com/oliver-anthony-melting-pot-fox-interview-18217…;

1
TXDirt
Posts
7784
Joined
7/29/2015
Location
Plano, TX US
8/24/2023 7:10am

We purchased our home back in 2011 or 2012 for $230,000.  It was a new home. The housing market was at a bottom. New homes were actually selling for cheaper than a used home. Builders were struggling to sell new inventory.

In North Texas we have had a HUGE influx of people coming in from out of state (usually California or Washington) and from out of country.

The people from out of state are driving up housing prices. They sell their home in California for 800k-2 million

Come to Texas and can basically pay cash for a house or close to it. It doesn’t matter if the home is 400k or 800k. They can pay it. They are flush with cash. They can sell their 2000sqft home in California for 1.5 million, move to Texas and get a 4,000sqft home for $650-$800k

They have money left over to go by a lake home now too. Housing prices in the Lake Texoma area have practically doubled in the last 5 years on both the Texas and Oklahoma sides.

So prices have SKYROCKETED!!!!!!!!
 

My home value has doubled. Which you may think is a good thing. But in the short term it’s awful. My property taxes have doubled. My income hasn’t changed all that much over the last ten years. But dang prices of EVERYTHING have gone up and up and up.

4
peelout
Posts
18342
Joined
1/6/2011
Location
Ogden, UT US
8/24/2023 8:20am
TXDirt wrote:
We purchased our home back in 2011 or 2012 for $230,000.  It was a new home. The housing market was at a bottom. New homes were...

We purchased our home back in 2011 or 2012 for $230,000.  It was a new home. The housing market was at a bottom. New homes were actually selling for cheaper than a used home. Builders were struggling to sell new inventory.

In North Texas we have had a HUGE influx of people coming in from out of state (usually California or Washington) and from out of country.

The people from out of state are driving up housing prices. They sell their home in California for 800k-2 million

Come to Texas and can basically pay cash for a house or close to it. It doesn’t matter if the home is 400k or 800k. They can pay it. They are flush with cash. They can sell their 2000sqft home in California for 1.5 million, move to Texas and get a 4,000sqft home for $650-$800k

They have money left over to go by a lake home now too. Housing prices in the Lake Texoma area have practically doubled in the last 5 years on both the Texas and Oklahoma sides.

So prices have SKYROCKETED!!!!!!!!
 

My home value has doubled. Which you may think is a good thing. But in the short term it’s awful. My property taxes have doubled. My income hasn’t changed all that much over the last ten years. But dang prices of EVERYTHING have gone up and up and up.

kind of the same situation here. my home has more than doubled in the 6 years since i bought it. the house i was in before my current home was an 1100 sqft 3 bed 1 bath rambler in a not great area with a bunch of shit houses surrounding it. i fixed it up and sold it for $180k, made a decent profit in the 10 years i owned it.  about 6 months ago it sold for $375k and they didn't do shit to it, same light fixtures, same paint, same carpet, if anything it was in worse shape than when i sold it for 180. that's fucking nuts. 

we looked at selling our house last year during the crazy market, but then we would have had to replace it and take out a bigger loan than what we were in just for a slight upgrade. rather than be house poor we decided to ride it out and do some slight upgrades to ours.  the home prices in Utah are astronomical.  back in about '14 i had the chance to pick up some property and build, i wish like hell i would have jumped on it then. property pricing and new home pricing is fucking stupid in UT.

5
LoudLove
Posts
2777
Joined
7/16/2010
Location
US
8/24/2023 8:27am
TXDirt wrote:
We purchased our home back in 2011 or 2012 for $230,000.  It was a new home. The housing market was at a bottom. New homes were...

We purchased our home back in 2011 or 2012 for $230,000.  It was a new home. The housing market was at a bottom. New homes were actually selling for cheaper than a used home. Builders were struggling to sell new inventory.

In North Texas we have had a HUGE influx of people coming in from out of state (usually California or Washington) and from out of country.

The people from out of state are driving up housing prices. They sell their home in California for 800k-2 million

Come to Texas and can basically pay cash for a house or close to it. It doesn’t matter if the home is 400k or 800k. They can pay it. They are flush with cash. They can sell their 2000sqft home in California for 1.5 million, move to Texas and get a 4,000sqft home for $650-$800k

They have money left over to go by a lake home now too. Housing prices in the Lake Texoma area have practically doubled in the last 5 years on both the Texas and Oklahoma sides.

So prices have SKYROCKETED!!!!!!!!
 

My home value has doubled. Which you may think is a good thing. But in the short term it’s awful. My property taxes have doubled. My income hasn’t changed all that much over the last ten years. But dang prices of EVERYTHING have gone up and up and up.

Right there with ya. Home valuation has doubled, as have property taxes (almost $1K/month) and insurance ($600/month). Equity is nice, but it don’t pay no bills. 

2
motomind132
Posts
281
Joined
5/12/2023
Location
Chicago , IL US
8/24/2023 9:50am
peelout wrote:
kind of the same situation here. my home has more than doubled in the 6 years since i bought it. the house i was in before...

kind of the same situation here. my home has more than doubled in the 6 years since i bought it. the house i was in before my current home was an 1100 sqft 3 bed 1 bath rambler in a not great area with a bunch of shit houses surrounding it. i fixed it up and sold it for $180k, made a decent profit in the 10 years i owned it.  about 6 months ago it sold for $375k and they didn't do shit to it, same light fixtures, same paint, same carpet, if anything it was in worse shape than when i sold it for 180. that's fucking nuts. 

we looked at selling our house last year during the crazy market, but then we would have had to replace it and take out a bigger loan than what we were in just for a slight upgrade. rather than be house poor we decided to ride it out and do some slight upgrades to ours.  the home prices in Utah are astronomical.  back in about '14 i had the chance to pick up some property and build, i wish like hell i would have jumped on it then. property pricing and new home pricing is fucking stupid in UT.

Condo next door to my cousin sold for 81k in November. Now same one bedroom one bath 790sqft condos in his neighborhood and next to him are selling for 120-130k all day long. It's not even a full year later.

eddie
Posts
3020
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Bragg Creek, AB CA
8/24/2023 11:14am
Condo next door to my cousin sold for 81k in November. Now same one bedroom one bath 790sqft condos in his neighborhood and next to him...

Condo next door to my cousin sold for 81k in November. Now same one bedroom one bath 790sqft condos in his neighborhood and next to him are selling for 120-130k all day long. It's not even a full year later.

Condos n my town START at about 220k US dollars . 

Chance1216
Posts
8348
Joined
4/1/2018
Location
Carson, CA US
8/24/2023 12:21pm
Condo next door to my cousin sold for 81k in November. Now same one bedroom one bath 790sqft condos in his neighborhood and next to him...

Condo next door to my cousin sold for 81k in November. Now same one bedroom one bath 790sqft condos in his neighborhood and next to him are selling for 120-130k all day long. It's not even a full year later.

eddie wrote:

Condos n my town START at about 220k US dollars . 

5B977DFF-DF0F-40B1-A53E-3B0139D00348.jpeg?VersionId=o 7W8f.z3uYD4.wc.T91ObK046SV

1
elsinore
Posts
1150
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Columbus, GA US
8/24/2023 5:46pm
Magoofan wrote:
If ever there was a song for a movement this is it.    This song is resonating with everyday Americans from all walks of life. It...

If ever there was a song for a movement this is it.    This song is resonating with everyday Americans from all walks of life.

It says we're fed up with government bullshit.... right and left.   Those who hate this song/message, hate America.  It's as simple as that. 

Mr Anthony has real talent.    Been a long time since I heard such a deeply heartfelt song.   This guy is as real as it comes.

Look at this social media post.

 

image-20230819092804-1

image-20230819092810-2

 

image-20230819092856-3

 

Not sorry, had to repost this.  

Those words in that post by Oliver Anthony are profound, and represent the exact sentiment that millions of Americans are feeling in today’s version of America.

5
1
Magoofan
Posts
10401
Joined
5/4/2021
Location
Shadow Glen (for those who remember), CA US
8/25/2023 3:35pm Edited Date/Time 8/25/2023 3:38pm

Mr Anthony reacts to his song being played/discussed at the RNC debate.    Man is that sickening that they are playing his song when it's about these assholes to begin with.      The song isn't about one party....

Well worth listening to the whole video. 

 

 

 

1
TDeath21
Posts
6515
Joined
2/22/2011
Location
Somewhere, MO US
8/25/2023 3:52pm Edited Date/Time 8/25/2023 3:53pm

It was funny watching the politicians on the stage at the debate squirming trying to answer the question of if they’re bought and paid for talking about this song, that’s literally written about them.

1
5
bh84
Posts
1750
Joined
8/20/2012
Location
Peterborough , ON CA
8/25/2023 6:44pm
swordfish wrote:
I’ve had 2 NP’s now and they deliver far better and thorough care than any doctor I’ve had.  Pretty sure the Libs are responsible for the...

I’ve had 2 NP’s now and they deliver far better and thorough care than any doctor I’ve had. 
Pretty sure the Libs are responsible for the 1 million a year immigrants that are contributing to the overtaxing of our healthcare system as well as housing and social welfare. 

Ever notice how many of the best doctors in this country(I’ve been a patient of many of them thanks to the tumour they found in my head) aren’t white? They’re here thanks to immigration. Go to any hospital in any major city and you’ll find it filled with immigrants or children of immigrants working to save the lives of Canadians. 

2
5
Yeti831
Posts
1348
Joined
1/30/2020
Location
UT US
8/25/2023 9:02pm
TXDirt wrote:
We purchased our home back in 2011 or 2012 for $230,000.  It was a new home. The housing market was at a bottom. New homes were...

We purchased our home back in 2011 or 2012 for $230,000.  It was a new home. The housing market was at a bottom. New homes were actually selling for cheaper than a used home. Builders were struggling to sell new inventory.

In North Texas we have had a HUGE influx of people coming in from out of state (usually California or Washington) and from out of country.

The people from out of state are driving up housing prices. They sell their home in California for 800k-2 million

Come to Texas and can basically pay cash for a house or close to it. It doesn’t matter if the home is 400k or 800k. They can pay it. They are flush with cash. They can sell their 2000sqft home in California for 1.5 million, move to Texas and get a 4,000sqft home for $650-$800k

They have money left over to go by a lake home now too. Housing prices in the Lake Texoma area have practically doubled in the last 5 years on both the Texas and Oklahoma sides.

So prices have SKYROCKETED!!!!!!!!
 

My home value has doubled. Which you may think is a good thing. But in the short term it’s awful. My property taxes have doubled. My income hasn’t changed all that much over the last ten years. But dang prices of EVERYTHING have gone up and up and up.

peelout wrote:
kind of the same situation here. my home has more than doubled in the 6 years since i bought it. the house i was in before...

kind of the same situation here. my home has more than doubled in the 6 years since i bought it. the house i was in before my current home was an 1100 sqft 3 bed 1 bath rambler in a not great area with a bunch of shit houses surrounding it. i fixed it up and sold it for $180k, made a decent profit in the 10 years i owned it.  about 6 months ago it sold for $375k and they didn't do shit to it, same light fixtures, same paint, same carpet, if anything it was in worse shape than when i sold it for 180. that's fucking nuts. 

we looked at selling our house last year during the crazy market, but then we would have had to replace it and take out a bigger loan than what we were in just for a slight upgrade. rather than be house poor we decided to ride it out and do some slight upgrades to ours.  the home prices in Utah are astronomical.  back in about '14 i had the chance to pick up some property and build, i wish like hell i would have jumped on it then. property pricing and new home pricing is fucking stupid in UT.

Dude, I’m just waiting for the crash in hopes I can snag 10-20 acres somewhere with a water source for horses 😂

1
2
Joey Bridges
Posts
9315
Joined
1/19/2022
Location
Kingston, TN US
8/26/2023 4:30am
bh84 wrote:
Ever notice how many of the best doctors in this country(I’ve been a patient of many of them thanks to the tumour they found in my...

Ever notice how many of the best doctors in this country(I’ve been a patient of many of them thanks to the tumour they found in my head) aren’t white? They’re here thanks to immigration. Go to any hospital in any major city and you’ll find it filled with immigrants or children of immigrants working to save the lives of Canadians. 

You can thank the ACA, and insurance companies for the demise of many MD's in this country over the years. 

Thus creating a void. 

The same type of void that has decimated the blue collar trades as well.

Leaving them open to less skilled workers, at a much reduced rate of labor. 

 

Just one of the underlying tones of the man's song.

1
5
Spoonguy
Posts
3419
Joined
2/28/2022
Location
Mc Kean, PA US
8/26/2023 4:34am
Chance1216 wrote:
Haha. Such a clown. You got it all figured out don’t ya.  In reality, I can’t afford what I want with 130k annual income So, I’m...

Haha. Such a clown. You got it all figured out don’t ya. 
In reality, I can’t afford what I want with 130k annual income So, I’m making arrangements to start my own plumbing  business. It might take a year or, two for everything to level out but, I’m not sitting on my hands watching the market continually climb out of reach.
 

Hence, my comment about lenders being more hesitant giving money to small businesses. 

On the contrary. I actually have a lot of respect for Borg.

Now, get back to stroking that ego of yours. 


 

 

Titan1 wrote:
Well, for what its worth (I know you don't care much for me or my opinion, so its not worth much to you) I applaud and...

Well, for what its worth (I know you don't care much for me or my opinion, so its not worth much to you) I applaud and respect you for starting a business to change your circumstances so you can get what you want out of your life. 

Chance1216 wrote:
Never said that. It’s simply difference of opinions.  The only thing I’ve seen is things are harder than ever for people to get into homes. Circumstances...

Never said that. It’s simply difference of opinions. 
The only thing I’ve seen is things are harder than ever for people to get into homes.

Circumstances have changed dramatically in just five years. It’s not easy and, it’s  frustrating. 400k five years ago would’ve gotten a person a 2400 sq ft house. Now, you’re lucky to find a 900 sq ft house that needs a full remodel for that price. 
 

A person who breaks their back and, works their fingers to the bone in a trade that pays very well shouldn’t struggle for homeownership is really the only opinion I have. 

It depends on where you live. My daughter is 30 married with two kids, her and her husband have bought two houses. She is a nurse, he is an electrician. Housing in my area is very affordable, the weather and economy is shit, but housing is affordable.

ktm366
Posts
27
Joined
6/1/2023
Location
Simi Valley, CA US
8/26/2023 4:45am
seth505 wrote:
I almost knew before reading, his long response was heartfelt and honest and then ruined with the very ironic ending talking about God and "false idols". ...

I almost knew before reading, his long response was heartfelt and honest and then ruined with the very ironic ending talking about God and "false idols".   Sorry humans, but you have the ability to make better decisions and be a better person, it's not beamed or inherited from some false idol in the sky.   

And this is why there is such truth to the scripture that says 

“God has blinded the eyes of the unbelievers so that they CAN NOT believe”

 and God will be glorified in both your death and your eternal condemnation

1
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