The financials of outdoor motocross

Mick 22
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Edited Date/Time 7/11/2023 10:45am

SX generates a lot more money since it is done in major metropolis's over a much longer season.

How much money does the owner of an outdoor national facility put in the safe after paying all of his/her bills?

Which national has the best and worst attendances?

Why did Broome-Tioga, Lake Sugar Tree and Gatorback go away, among many other places? 

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Dhallmark
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7/11/2023 11:09am

My understanding is not much.  Was told they must do the required improvements which can range up into the millions.  Then they get leased out for that weekend for 30 - 50k and all monies go to mx-sports or who ever is in charge.  This could very well be the reason why other tracks have gone away, maybe not.

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LungButter
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7/11/2023 11:12am
Dhallmark wrote:
My understanding is not much.  Was told they must do the required improvements which can range up into the millions.  Then they get leased out for...

My understanding is not much.  Was told they must do the required improvements which can range up into the millions.  Then they get leased out for that weekend for 30 - 50k and all monies go to mx-sports or who ever is in charge.  This could very well be the reason why other tracks have gone away, maybe not.

Can you please give an example of "improvements" that have been required of a National track that cost Millions.

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Richy
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7/11/2023 2:00pm

Millions 😂 Do they have any Grey Poupon?

Interesting thread though, I've not seen (or looked for) any numbers for god knows how many years, should be interesting.

The Shop

LungButter
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7/11/2023 2:06pm
Richy wrote:
Millions 😂 Do they have any Grey Poupon? Interesting thread though, I've not seen (or looked for) any numbers for god knows how many years, should...

Millions 😂 Do they have any Grey Poupon?

Interesting thread though, I've not seen (or looked for) any numbers for god knows how many years, should be interesting.

I really hope he comes back and provides more context.  There are some facilities that hold Nationals that may not even be worth Millions 

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7/11/2023 2:20pm
LungButter wrote:

I really hope he comes back and provides more context.  There are some facilities that hold Nationals that may not even be worth Millions 

In his defense, I remember reading something about Glen Helen and what MXSports wanted them to do, in order for the National to be held there again. 
If memory serves me correct, a million was thrown out there, with all new buildings with flushing toilets, new stadium bleachers & more. I’m not saying that all that would cost a million, but I’m guessing it’s where this came from… 

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LungButter
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7/11/2023 2:23pm
Langhammx wrote:
In his defense, I remember reading something about Glen Helen and what MXSports wanted them to do, in order for the National to be held there...

In his defense, I remember reading something about Glen Helen and what MXSports wanted them to do, in order for the National to be held there again. 
If memory serves me correct, a million was thrown out there, with all new buildings with flushing toilets, new stadium bleachers & more. I’m not saying that all that would cost a million, but I’m guessing it’s where this came from… 

Copy.

I'd love to know more about that too.  Doesn't seem like most National facilities have that stuff so it'd be odd that GH woulda been required to have it.

I'm not an expert but I've stood in plenty of porta john lines at more than one National.

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7/11/2023 2:32pm
LungButter wrote:
Copy. I'd love to know more about that too.  Doesn't seem like most National facilities have that stuff so it'd be odd that GH woulda been...

Copy.

I'd love to know more about that too.  Doesn't seem like most National facilities have that stuff so it'd be odd that GH woulda been required to have it.

I'm not an expert but I've stood in plenty of porta john lines at more than one National.

That was what a lot of people were saying as far as the other venues. Hense the reason that Bud told Davey to take the race somewhere else. 

I know Davey wanted Bud to make the place more appealing and satisfy the crowds. Let’s face it, Glen Helen has some very disgusting bathrooms. Whenever my daughter needed to use the restroom when we were there, she would dread using them. 

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aeffertz
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7/11/2023 2:37pm
Langhammx wrote:
That was what a lot of people were saying as far as the other venues. Hense the reason that Bud told Davey to take the race...

That was what a lot of people were saying as far as the other venues. Hense the reason that Bud told Davey to take the race somewhere else. 

I know Davey wanted Bud to make the place more appealing and satisfy the crowds. Let’s face it, Glen Helen has some very disgusting bathrooms. Whenever my daughter needed to use the restroom when we were there, she would dread using them. 

Yeah but that’d cost money. 🤔 

early
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7/11/2023 2:38pm
LungButter wrote:
Copy. I'd love to know more about that too.  Doesn't seem like most National facilities have that stuff so it'd be odd that GH woulda been...

Copy.

I'd love to know more about that too.  Doesn't seem like most National facilities have that stuff so it'd be odd that GH woulda been required to have it.

I'm not an expert but I've stood in plenty of porta john lines at more than one National.

High Point is mostly portajohns, thought I remember something about an emergency access road next to the track up Mt St Helens.

ohh_454
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7/11/2023 2:41pm
LungButter wrote:
Copy. I'd love to know more about that too.  Doesn't seem like most National facilities have that stuff so it'd be odd that GH woulda been...

Copy.

I'd love to know more about that too.  Doesn't seem like most National facilities have that stuff so it'd be odd that GH woulda been required to have it.

I'm not an expert but I've stood in plenty of porta john lines at more than one National.

Langhammx wrote:
That was what a lot of people were saying as far as the other venues. Hense the reason that Bud told Davey to take the race...

That was what a lot of people were saying as far as the other venues. Hense the reason that Bud told Davey to take the race somewhere else. 

I know Davey wanted Bud to make the place more appealing and satisfy the crowds. Let’s face it, Glen Helen has some very disgusting bathrooms. Whenever my daughter needed to use the restroom when we were there, she would dread using them. 

From attending the Glen Helen national from a kid, to a teen, to an adult, the bathrooms were always nasty at Glen Helen lol still, I’d rather go to a national at Glen Helen then Pala. 

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7/11/2023 2:48pm
ohh_454 wrote:
From attending the Glen Helen national from a kid, to a teen, to an adult, the bathrooms were always nasty at Glen Helen lol still, I’d...

From attending the Glen Helen national from a kid, to a teen, to an adult, the bathrooms were always nasty at Glen Helen lol still, I’d rather go to a national at Glen Helen then Pala. 

I’m with you. I used to have my Motorhome when my kid was racing, so it was a non-issue for us most of the time. But having to take a dump in any of the toilets there was/is worse than a truckers bathroom on the open road. 
Im not a fan of Pala either, I doubt I’ll ever head there again. (To ride or watch the national)

mx 219
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7/12/2023 1:19am

They are making enough to keep doing it every year. Is that 100k for the owners, 200k, more? Hard to tell. Don't kid yourself they are making money.

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Landonious217
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7/12/2023 5:06am
mx 219 wrote:
They are making enough to keep doing it every year. Is that 100k for the owners, 200k, more? Hard to tell. Don't kid yourself they are...

They are making enough to keep doing it every year. Is that 100k for the owners, 200k, more? Hard to tell. Don't kid yourself they are making money.

I don't think so. Otherwise, why would they ever give the race up? Pretty sure Freestone said "thanks, but no thanks." When their contract was up. Not sure about Muddy Creek and Broome-Tioga?

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mx 219
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7/12/2023 5:10am
mx 219 wrote:
They are making enough to keep doing it every year. Is that 100k for the owners, 200k, more? Hard to tell. Don't kid yourself they are...

They are making enough to keep doing it every year. Is that 100k for the owners, 200k, more? Hard to tell. Don't kid yourself they are making money.

I don't think so. Otherwise, why would they ever give the race up? Pretty sure Freestone said "thanks, but no thanks." When their contract was up...

I don't think so. Otherwise, why would they ever give the race up? Pretty sure Freestone said "thanks, but no thanks." When their contract was up. Not sure about Muddy Creek and Broome-Tioga?

I thought Broome and or Kenworthy's was pretty much taken away from them to expand outside of the northeast. 

Maybe certain owners don't have the same requirements to keep the national. It's kind of odd that some have stayed so long and others had a national for only a few years.

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Landonious217
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7/12/2023 5:53am
mx 219 wrote:
They are making enough to keep doing it every year. Is that 100k for the owners, 200k, more? Hard to tell. Don't kid yourself they are...

They are making enough to keep doing it every year. Is that 100k for the owners, 200k, more? Hard to tell. Don't kid yourself they are making money.

I don't think so. Otherwise, why would they ever give the race up? Pretty sure Freestone said "thanks, but no thanks." When their contract was up...

I don't think so. Otherwise, why would they ever give the race up? Pretty sure Freestone said "thanks, but no thanks." When their contract was up. Not sure about Muddy Creek and Broome-Tioga?

mx 219 wrote:
I thought Broome and or Kenworthy's was pretty much taken away from them to expand outside of the northeast.  Maybe certain owners don't have the same...

I thought Broome and or Kenworthy's was pretty much taken away from them to expand outside of the northeast. 

Maybe certain owners don't have the same requirements to keep the national. It's kind of odd that some have stayed so long and others had a national for only a few years.

Agreed. Does anyone know what happened to the following:

Kenworthy's 

Gatorback

Steel City 

Broome-Tioga 

Glen Helen

Freestone

Muddy Creek

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ktmracer726
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7/12/2023 5:58am

If the promoters are doing it right, like Red Bud does, they are making money. Sold out amateur practice Thursday on the big track. Huge turnout for amateur racing on the big track Friday and Sunday. Racing on the amateur SX track Friday and Saturday nights. People camping from Wednesday through Sunday.  

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resetjet
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7/12/2023 6:06am

I would not imagine much.  The notoriety is great for them.

Falcon
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7/12/2023 6:13am

You guys want to have a horrifying experience? Try taking a leak in one of the port-a-johns at Cahuilla Creek. Last time I was there was a year ago and I still feel dirty and ashamed. 

jpatz319
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7/12/2023 6:23am

Agreed. Does anyone know what happened to the following:

Kenworthy's 

Gatorback

Steel City 

Broome-Tioga 

Glen Helen

Freestone

Muddy Creek

Kenworthy's - Closed due to the flood

Gatorback - Too hot in the summer

Steel City - Closed due to EPA

Broome-Tioga - Too many NE tracks

Glen Helen - IDK

Freestone - Too hot in the summer

Muddy Creek- The pit area wasnt good and mxsports wanted it to go to Ironman

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early
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7/12/2023 6:26am

Agreed. Does anyone know what happened to the following:

Kenworthy's 

Gatorback

Steel City 

Broome-Tioga 

Glen Helen

Freestone

Muddy Creek

I think Steel City got shutdown by the EPA or some other water resource board for being in a reservoir watershed.

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WFO Dave
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7/12/2023 6:44am

In talking with Tony at Freestone there was also issues with spectators not being able to see a lot of the track.

Back when Tony was around Freestone was the only track I'd race. Love that place. Sure do mis old Tony!

Was very political back then. I'm pretty sure it still is.

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Landonious217
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7/12/2023 8:00am

With how many great facilities there are, it seems like a lot of this stuff should be looked at way ahead of time. If I was a track owner I think I'd try and get really creative with facilities and see if it'd be possible to capture more of an experience. 

Easier said than done obviously, but still. A lot of people that don't even ride or never will, go to supercross. The dirt bike industry needs to really try to break into a wider base. Having the nationals in the summer is really screwing their ability to do so. 

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Dhallmark
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7/13/2023 10:06am
mx 219 wrote:
They are making enough to keep doing it every year. Is that 100k for the owners, 200k, more? Hard to tell. Don't kid yourself they are...

They are making enough to keep doing it every year. Is that 100k for the owners, 200k, more? Hard to tell. Don't kid yourself they are making money.

I had a first had conversation with a track owner that was in talks with the powers at be for a national.

Deal is they lease the track for a fee and keep all proceeds.  
 

As contracts expire this new agreement comes into play.
 

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NorCal1975
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7/13/2023 5:09pm

I always figured the track owner got some % of the cut as a way to incentivize a great experience for fans, but just a flat fee?

As an aside, anyone know when Buds lease expires at Glen Helen?  Would love for the National to go back there at some point. Would love to see Pala go

Dave v3.0
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7/13/2023 8:24pm

Gatorback went away because it was the "orphan" National...held in March in the middle of the way-to-important-to-interrupt Supercross season.  It can't come back because the current lease on the property only allows a few race dates per year.

 

8tensolutions
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7/13/2023 8:45pm Edited Date/Time 7/13/2023 8:46pm
NorCal1975 wrote:
I always figured the track owner got some % of the cut as a way to incentivize a great experience for fans, but just a flat...

I always figured the track owner got some % of the cut as a way to incentivize a great experience for fans, but just a flat fee?

As an aside, anyone know when Buds lease expires at Glen Helen?  Would love for the National to go back there at some point. Would love to see Pala go

Since the same tracks continue to operate the Nationals year after year, I would say it is a solid partnership and they are not getting the short end of the deal.

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