With all these big crashes on the starts lately, not just MX, but SX too. Does anybody else wonder if all these new starting aids have anything to do with this?
Think about it, starting grates, holeshot devices, traction control, quick shift devices. Remember when it use to be a true art to get a start. From gate pick, to prepping your starting spot, controlling your bike with clutch and throttle control. It used to take real talent, today with all these starting aids I think Mike LaRocco could probably holeshot over Mike Alessi 8 out of 10 times LOL! Ok, maybe that is a bit of a reach but you get my point. Because of these aids there is literally no separation between the riders you have 20 (SX) 40(MX) riders handlebar to handlebar going into the first turn, and something has to give and it is usually a pile up. I think they should get rid of all crap and go back to school on how to get starts.
What say you ?
All of this and HP doesn’t help much either.
Preach.
What those devices do is allow the riders to carry more speed to the first corner. Faster speed equals harder crashes. Everyone is going faster to the first turn.
I don't think the devices are the great equalizer and causing a crowded first turn. They are just going faster and mistakes are less forgiving. 40 bikes in one turn. It's what makes motocross one of the last gladiator sports out there.
After looking at starts from 20 years ago I'm not at all convinced the first turns are more crowded today than years ago. It's the same.... just faster.
There's another thread started a couple days ago on this same topic. Seems like a no brainer to me that the easier you make it for every rider to go faster and arrive at a certain spot at the same time then more accidents will happen
https://www.vitalmx.com/forums/moto-related/new-metal-starting-gates
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Hi Steve
I will still holeshot my class 7 times out of ten, and so would Mike Alessi in his. Despite the additional help these "magic" trinkets provide, there is no substitute for a focused, well-practiced rider with fast twitch muscles and a fast bike.
Yes, but the he magic trinkets lessen the skill advantage. First holeshot fork devices, launch maps, rpm shift indicators, and now metal grates are de-skilling start technique. Who is gonna sneak in a camera to that disengages the hydraulic clutch as the gate drops? Trust me, the ECU says, the gate dropped hang on.
I agree totally
There’s definitely separation between the riders. They’re not “literally” occupying the same space. 🤦🏼 I can’t stand that word.
That's funny,
I saw a big pile of bikes in the first turn at Thunder Valley "literally" taking up the same space. Look I know they can't literally take up the same space without some form of osmosis. So get over it
Forkner's season ending injury in supercross was definitely holeshot device related.
I have a feeling that 90% of the 40 man gate being privateers has more to do with the recent pileups than the grates.
I don’t want to restrict anything that comes on the stock bike that anyone can buy….like mapping. But aftermarket adds they need to look at. Holeshot devices should go for sure. Other stuff that adds speed in the first turn should be looked at hard. It would also make it more fair for privateers who don’t have unlimited budgets. Speed is definitely adding to injury severity. Almost anything that leads to less injuries and better racing…I’m all for it. The factory bikes are out of control anyway. Anyone that looks at Jett on a Honda and thinks….he is winning on a Honda so I’m buying that bike. Well….guess what….it’s not even close to the same bike….and barely the same species. Getting the bikes a little closer to stock would make for better racing by decreasing the huge advantage factory has and may also make for better racing.
Has anyone done side by side starts, dirt vs concrete vs steel grates? I’d like to see that, gut feeling is that the steel grates are worth at least a bike length at 30 feet out, and much better consistency. Agree with the OP, I’m not a fan of the metal launch ramps.
It's an interesting point, I agree.
What it seems some people are asking for is "Spec" racing while we wax eloquently about the old factory bikes.
I've seen spec kill pro series'. Shall I invoke the IRL? They speced the series and virtually killed it.
You could eliminate some stuff, but use great care, because too much regulation often ends up badly.
The upshot is some things need to be done in this sport to keep our riders from being injured so much. Motocross racers are modern day gladiators and this sport will always be dangerous. That doesn't mean things can't or shouldn't be done to increase safety. I think speed and horsepower should be considered. Start devices, etc. that increase speed into the first turn isn't helping anything.
But hell, what say the 40 pros that line up? If they want it and like it, let it rip. But if they are only following suit because they have no choice I think that sucks. There needs to be some sort of riders union where the racers are able to self regulate their own sport. I would love to know what the current pros think on this subject.
It's bullshit when the rules are written for the advantage of manufacturers, vendors, and promotors. Riders should come first.
We’re talking about “spec” starting surfaces, aren’t we? The steel grates give a much more consistent launch and that might be a problem.
I miss works bikes..
Pit Row
And you’re exactly right about regulations. They rarely work out the way they are intended.
Electronic traction control have ruined other sports that I follow or used to follow, the grates the holeshot devices just add to the more cookie cutterness, lucky for us Dirtbike racing is still the purest form of moto racing where rider is king still, however the gap is closing with all the electronic and other assists methods, I believe mapping with no TC is as far as it should go, AMA and Feld should start regulating this stuff before it becomes more about the bike.
Regarding the starts all the electronics and devices make it much more even resulting in pile ups.
I don't have any answers, I just have problems.
Random screenshots of the first turn from the first 12 motos of the season. I don't see the "bunching" that people are claiming is causing crashes.
We shouldn't let facts get in the way.
supercross:
22 starting gate as is. 11 fastest on the inside and the other 11 on the outside. Outside gate drops, from 5 to 10 seconds behind inside gate.
or
Outside 11 gates 3 bike lengths behind inside 11 gates.
Outdoor:
20 inside 20 outside.
Why is it that the same guys get good starts then ?
Regulators are just solutions looking for problems..
You are 100% correct, they are not bunched up anymore than in the past, Too many whiny nancy boys crying about the "dangerous starts" some of those ladies need to find a more gentile sport. You would think the way they talk like they are lined up to race.
Post a reply to: Starts, things that make you go hmmmm