Is the LIV/PGA Tour merger foreshadowing what may happen with WSX and SX?

FreshTopEnd
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6/7/2023 8:29am

More like Indy vs USAC

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6/7/2023 8:46am
scott_nz wrote:
Not likely ,  the smx series have the support of the manufacturers for their biggest market in the world    how many dirt bikes do you...

Not likely ,  the smx series have the support of the manufacturers for their biggest market in the world 

 

how many dirt bikes do you think they sell in Singapore ? 

You really think the US Market is bigger than the rest of the World? 

The Manufacturers also supporting MXGP, sooner or later they will also buy in WSX. 

More likely the WSX gets bigger and more of the US guys are moving over to WSX and the Feld series is just a National Championship then. Of course this could all be go complete other direction and WSX fades away and nothing changes. 

 

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Shakybonez15
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6/7/2023 10:20am Edited Date/Time 6/7/2023 10:21am
GrapeApe wrote:

The biggest threat stateside would be WSX and Infront merging, with Mubadala money-whipping names like the Lawrences, Shimoda, Sexton, Deegan, etc. to race both FIM series.

This right here... People are talking as if tomac,anderson and the likes matter for this... they don't, they're past that splash point

The real shakedown of the ama sx/mx series is coming in roughly 3-5 years, Because what happens.. when say the lawrences win everything here and are like you know what.. lets go race around the world.

Or Deegan wins or difransisco (hypothetically, before you guys go crazy) and wants to run sx only. and signs for ama sx and wsx.

alot of the contract stuff will be the tale of the tape imo.

 

The Deegs and Lawrences (Have major social media clout, and could potentially change the course of this sport by there choices)

If im a agent, id be leaning towards global dominance in the future.

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Old Mate
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24ama riders,7 French, 3 Aussies and 8 othher nations and spectacular entertainment world wide, Best thing for the sport ever

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The Shop

6/7/2023 12:30pm

it's possible. Liv/PGA were at each other's throats until they weren't. Public name-calling and lawsuits. WSX and Feld do not have the kind of money that LIV does, but yeah, it could happen IF WSX becomes viable and you start seeing guys skipping outdoors for WSX (which is already happening). 

On another note, it's tiring to have people disagree with a person's perspective or idea and just piss all over it with rude and condescending comments. C'mon - we're all moto folks here. Yes stupid shit does get posted but this isn't one of 'em.

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kijen
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6/7/2023 2:52pm

So in essence saudi bought the pga. uae is pretty rich, how much would it take for feld and mxsports to sell out? If you cant beat em, buy em.

tannerhall
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6/7/2023 3:09pm

It wasn’t long ago Feld wouldn’t allow riders to promote CBD products on their gear. 1 year later they had CBD logos everywhere as their partners. Both series over here look at the WSX group as the enemy but that can change so quickly if it benefits them. 

1
6/7/2023 3:17pm
scott_nz wrote:
Not likely ,  the smx series have the support of the manufacturers for their biggest market in the world    how many dirt bikes do you...

Not likely ,  the smx series have the support of the manufacturers for their biggest market in the world 

 

how many dirt bikes do you think they sell in Singapore ? 

You really think the US Market is bigger than the rest of the World?  The Manufacturers also supporting MXGP, sooner or later they will also buy...

You really think the US Market is bigger than the rest of the World? 

The Manufacturers also supporting MXGP, sooner or later they will also buy in WSX. 

More likely the WSX gets bigger and more of the US guys are moving over to WSX and the Feld series is just a National Championship then. Of course this could all be go complete other direction and WSX fades away and nothing changes. 

 

for motocross bike sales ,  yes i think the USA market is close to that big,  thats why the factories spend so much more in the AMA series than in the GP's, 

 

the 2nd biggest country for MX bike sales is Australia,  but I presume europe as a whole is bigger, 

 

FreshTopEnd
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6/7/2023 5:31pm
This right here... People are talking as if tomac,anderson and the likes matter for this... they don't, they're past that splash point The real shakedown of...

This right here... People are talking as if tomac,anderson and the likes matter for this... they don't, they're past that splash point

The real shakedown of the ama sx/mx series is coming in roughly 3-5 years, Because what happens.. when say the lawrences win everything here and are like you know what.. lets go race around the world.

Or Deegan wins or difransisco (hypothetically, before you guys go crazy) and wants to run sx only. and signs for ama sx and wsx.

alot of the contract stuff will be the tale of the tape imo.

 

The Deegs and Lawrences (Have major social media clout, and could potentially change the course of this sport by there choices)

If im a agent, id be leaning towards global dominance in the future.

So . . . it'll go "mainstream."  Okay.

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6/7/2023 6:34pm

With the lineup wsx is running out this year I highly doubt the ama/smx are worried about them anymore. 

soggy wrote:

I’m thinking Adam Bailey is grinning his teeth this year because of how depleted 450 mx is this year. 

That’s would be silly because even this depleted field is night and day better than the field he is putting out. 

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DonM
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6/7/2023 6:36pm
GrapeApe wrote:

The biggest threat stateside would be WSX and Infront merging, with Mubadala money-whipping names like the Lawrences, Shimoda, Sexton, Deegan, etc. to race both FIM series.

Problem is the only way that would work is if WSX became a fall series because MXGP season runs from March - October and Luongo is too greedy to share…

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DonM
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6/7/2023 6:39pm
it's possible. Liv/PGA were at each other's throats until they weren't. Public name-calling and lawsuits. WSX and Feld do not have the kind of money that...

it's possible. Liv/PGA were at each other's throats until they weren't. Public name-calling and lawsuits. WSX and Feld do not have the kind of money that LIV does, but yeah, it could happen IF WSX becomes viable and you start seeing guys skipping outdoors for WSX (which is already happening). 

On another note, it's tiring to have people disagree with a person's perspective or idea and just piss all over it with rude and condescending comments. C'mon - we're all moto folks here. Yes stupid shit does get posted but this isn't one of 'em.

It’s already happening? They bought Kenny the rest are privateers….without Kenny this series would be dead

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ace402
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6/7/2023 7:06pm

I’m in favor of anything that keeps the sport alive and gets the riders paid more, especially the privateers. 

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Bineano
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6/7/2023 9:30pm

Hate to say it, but…If Formula 1 and Golf can be bought, SX could easily be a “throw in” treat to sweeten some other deal. 

 

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Old Mate
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The series will build, riders live at home all over the world and are training with the dream, the old dream was USA but you had to move there, I told the Lawrence’s it was sell up and move as my biggest mistake was sending my kids overseas alone

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CPR
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6/7/2023 11:33pm
soyMotero wrote:
WSX started badly from the beginning, they went to Anaheim to show their project to the official teams and to show Feld how to run a...

WSX started badly from the beginning, they went to Anaheim to show their project to the official teams and to show Feld how to run a championship.

First of all: The official teams that compete in the AMA championships only have national jurisdiction, that is, their main goal is to win in US championships in order to sell bikes in the US. Winning AMA championships increases sales in the rest of the world? I buy it, I'm seeing a lot of YZ450F's in Spain lately and that bike hasn't won an MXGP championship since 2015, but selling in bikes in Spain was not Yamaha's main goal in signing Tomac.
If your championship is a "global" championship, with races all over the world, where, according to WSX is 70% of the offroad market, they should have gone to talk to the "Global" racing departments, i.e. HRC in Tokyo, Yamaha Racing in Hamamatsu, Kawasaki in Tokyo.... Which is where they make the decisions regarding the number 1 motorbike racing championship in the world, MotoGP (and in Kawasaki's case the number 1 production motorbike championship, WorldSBK).

2° Feld Entertainment may not be Liberty Media, but they know a lot about running motorsport championships, if when you go to talk to them you tell them that they have no idea how to run a championship, that they organise it badly and that your objective is to dethrone them, well what can I say, they are going to put you on their blacklist.

In other things we have to give credit to WSX, because they have managed to sell to TV channels and stadiums all over the world a championship with riders who, with all due respect, are one step below Tomac, Webb, Lawrence, Anderson, Barcia...Something that Ama SX could have done.

CPR wrote:

Do you know they didn’t go to “global racing departments “ or are you just assuming?

DonM wrote:
Doesn't matter where they went....they didn't get the support they thought they would. I'm not against WSX I'm just against the time of year they decided...

Doesn't matter where they went....they didn't get the support they thought they would. I'm not against WSX I'm just against the time of year they decided to hold their championship and as I've said before there are not enough good racers to split between series and it is showing to be true. Both the US outdoors and WSX are showing weak fields. Can you imagine how weak WSX would be if they didn't pay Kenny? 

How do you know what they thought? A lot of opinions spouted here as facts…..

”not against WSX” 😂🤣🤣

”not enough good racers” why is that? Could it have something to do with there previously being only one major SX series? There’s only one way to grow more talent; increase opportunities.

Try to look past your own bias and look into the future, that’s what this thread is about. If everything stays the same, nothing changes. It may work out, or it may not, but at least they’re trying.

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Bearuno
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6/8/2023 1:03am Edited Date/Time 6/8/2023 1:24am

I'm going to be at the Singapore WSX - 'lesser' line up? -  well, I D.G.A.F.

I'm in Singapore at that time for work, and Thailand ( to then  scoot over to KL for the MotoGP) , so I'm but 10 /15 minutes from an awesome  Stadium in the Singapore Sports Precinct. It's easier and cheaper for me to go to that round, than going to Melbourne. Though, if my neighbor and his young uns go, I might make the effort.......

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kijen
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6/8/2023 4:11am Edited Date/Time 6/8/2023 4:20am
CPR wrote:

Do you know they didn’t go to “global racing departments “ or are you just assuming?

DonM wrote:
Doesn't matter where they went....they didn't get the support they thought they would. I'm not against WSX I'm just against the time of year they decided...

Doesn't matter where they went....they didn't get the support they thought they would. I'm not against WSX I'm just against the time of year they decided to hold their championship and as I've said before there are not enough good racers to split between series and it is showing to be true. Both the US outdoors and WSX are showing weak fields. Can you imagine how weak WSX would be if they didn't pay Kenny? 

CPR wrote:
How do you know what they thought? A lot of opinions spouted here as facts….. ”not against WSX” 😂🤣🤣 ”not enough good racers” why is that...

How do you know what they thought? A lot of opinions spouted here as facts…..

”not against WSX” 😂🤣🤣

”not enough good racers” why is that? Could it have something to do with there previously being only one major SX series? There’s only one way to grow more talent; increase opportunities.

Try to look past your own bias and look into the future, that’s what this thread is about. If everything stays the same, nothing changes. It may work out, or it may not, but at least they’re trying.

Theres already not enough talent for SX, out of the 40 that qualified, usually only 5 or so have a chance to win. If winning is the goal of racing, that is a sport. If just being there and riding, that is an exhibition. Diluting the product hurts more than helps.

And yeah lots of people go to monster truck, wwe etc...so tbere is some hope that folks around the world will go watch WSX, but core fans know its the minor leagues with a couple of guys bought to put a name in for recognition.

Example think of what outdoor s could be if ama and mxgp competed in some double paying point races. Racing would be epic.  And not 2 guys checking out.

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Mick 22
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6/8/2023 5:16am

Any sport is about talent and money.

Those with the most talent make the most money.

Those with the deepest pockets pay the most money.

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DonM
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6/8/2023 6:04am
CPR wrote:

Do you know they didn’t go to “global racing departments “ or are you just assuming?

DonM wrote:
Doesn't matter where they went....they didn't get the support they thought they would. I'm not against WSX I'm just against the time of year they decided...

Doesn't matter where they went....they didn't get the support they thought they would. I'm not against WSX I'm just against the time of year they decided to hold their championship and as I've said before there are not enough good racers to split between series and it is showing to be true. Both the US outdoors and WSX are showing weak fields. Can you imagine how weak WSX would be if they didn't pay Kenny? 

CPR wrote:
How do you know what they thought? A lot of opinions spouted here as facts….. ”not against WSX” 😂🤣🤣 ”not enough good racers” why is that...

How do you know what they thought? A lot of opinions spouted here as facts…..

”not against WSX” 😂🤣🤣

”not enough good racers” why is that? Could it have something to do with there previously being only one major SX series? There’s only one way to grow more talent; increase opportunities.

Try to look past your own bias and look into the future, that’s what this thread is about. If everything stays the same, nothing changes. It may work out, or it may not, but at least they’re trying.

So you think they showed up at A1 as a vacation and just try to talk to every team and rider out of friendship? Bailey has said in interviews that he was there to try to get the teams and riders to race his series and since that has said that he was too aggressive in the way he went about it and in retrospect it was a mistake. And no grasshopper I'm not against WSX, but I've always been against the time of year they chose to hold the races and as I have said in posts prior to their first race that by choosing the to race June (that was when they said they would start) through October was a mistake and would do nothing but have two series with depleted quality riders in each. As I've said and truly believe Bailey's biggest mistake was not making this a September through November series, its why he doesn't have manufacturer support, it's why his rider line up is full of B&C level riders and its also why he can't get top riders interested to race his series without shelling out millions to buy them.

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64smoker
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6/8/2023 6:25am
CPR wrote:

Do you know they didn’t go to “global racing departments “ or are you just assuming?

DonM wrote:
Doesn't matter where they went....they didn't get the support they thought they would. I'm not against WSX I'm just against the time of year they decided...

Doesn't matter where they went....they didn't get the support they thought they would. I'm not against WSX I'm just against the time of year they decided to hold their championship and as I've said before there are not enough good racers to split between series and it is showing to be true. Both the US outdoors and WSX are showing weak fields. Can you imagine how weak WSX would be if they didn't pay Kenny? 

CPR wrote:
How do you know what they thought? A lot of opinions spouted here as facts….. ”not against WSX” 😂🤣🤣 ”not enough good racers” why is that...

How do you know what they thought? A lot of opinions spouted here as facts…..

”not against WSX” 😂🤣🤣

”not enough good racers” why is that? Could it have something to do with there previously being only one major SX series? There’s only one way to grow more talent; increase opportunities.

Try to look past your own bias and look into the future, that’s what this thread is about. If everything stays the same, nothing changes. It may work out, or it may not, but at least they’re trying.

Well said , so many americas in tears over this wsx series 

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64smoker
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6/8/2023 6:28am
DonM wrote:
Doesn't matter where they went....they didn't get the support they thought they would. I'm not against WSX I'm just against the time of year they decided...

Doesn't matter where they went....they didn't get the support they thought they would. I'm not against WSX I'm just against the time of year they decided to hold their championship and as I've said before there are not enough good racers to split between series and it is showing to be true. Both the US outdoors and WSX are showing weak fields. Can you imagine how weak WSX would be if they didn't pay Kenny? 

CPR wrote:
How do you know what they thought? A lot of opinions spouted here as facts….. ”not against WSX” 😂🤣🤣 ”not enough good racers” why is that...

How do you know what they thought? A lot of opinions spouted here as facts…..

”not against WSX” 😂🤣🤣

”not enough good racers” why is that? Could it have something to do with there previously being only one major SX series? There’s only one way to grow more talent; increase opportunities.

Try to look past your own bias and look into the future, that’s what this thread is about. If everything stays the same, nothing changes. It may work out, or it may not, but at least they’re trying.

DonM wrote:
So you think they showed up at A1 as a vacation and just try to talk to every team and rider out of friendship? Bailey has...

So you think they showed up at A1 as a vacation and just try to talk to every team and rider out of friendship? Bailey has said in interviews that he was there to try to get the teams and riders to race his series and since that has said that he was too aggressive in the way he went about it and in retrospect it was a mistake. And no grasshopper I'm not against WSX, but I've always been against the time of year they chose to hold the races and as I have said in posts prior to their first race that by choosing the to race June (that was when they said they would start) through October was a mistake and would do nothing but have two series with depleted quality riders in each. As I've said and truly believe Bailey's biggest mistake was not making this a September through November series, its why he doesn't have manufacturer support, it's why his rider line up is full of B&C level riders and its also why he can't get top riders interested to race his series without shelling out millions to buy them.

What a load of shit , roczen won a race this year , webbs spoke about being interested as well as  Anderson I believe , contracts will change a lot over the next couple of years and you will see a lot more guys doing the brayton route , prolonging there career in the process , providing Adam Bailey does a good job with these events in 3- 5 years time it will have the majority of top riders 

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64smoker
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6/8/2023 6:35am
Mick 22 wrote:

Any sport is about talent and money.

Those with the most talent make the most money.

Those with the deepest pockets pay the most money.

👏 facts , this can been seen in every sport out there 

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DonM
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6/8/2023 6:42am
CPR wrote:
How do you know what they thought? A lot of opinions spouted here as facts….. ”not against WSX” 😂🤣🤣 ”not enough good racers” why is that...

How do you know what they thought? A lot of opinions spouted here as facts…..

”not against WSX” 😂🤣🤣

”not enough good racers” why is that? Could it have something to do with there previously being only one major SX series? There’s only one way to grow more talent; increase opportunities.

Try to look past your own bias and look into the future, that’s what this thread is about. If everything stays the same, nothing changes. It may work out, or it may not, but at least they’re trying.

DonM wrote:
So you think they showed up at A1 as a vacation and just try to talk to every team and rider out of friendship? Bailey has...

So you think they showed up at A1 as a vacation and just try to talk to every team and rider out of friendship? Bailey has said in interviews that he was there to try to get the teams and riders to race his series and since that has said that he was too aggressive in the way he went about it and in retrospect it was a mistake. And no grasshopper I'm not against WSX, but I've always been against the time of year they chose to hold the races and as I have said in posts prior to their first race that by choosing the to race June (that was when they said they would start) through October was a mistake and would do nothing but have two series with depleted quality riders in each. As I've said and truly believe Bailey's biggest mistake was not making this a September through November series, its why he doesn't have manufacturer support, it's why his rider line up is full of B&C level riders and its also why he can't get top riders interested to race his series without shelling out millions to buy them.

64smoker wrote:
What a load of shit , roczen won a race this year , webbs spoke about being interested as well as  Anderson I believe , contracts...

What a load of shit , roczen won a race this year , webbs spoke about being interested as well as  Anderson I believe , contracts will change a lot over the next couple of years and you will see a lot more guys doing the brayton route , prolonging there career in the process , providing Adam Bailey does a good job with these events in 3- 5 years time it will have the majority of top riders 

So you think facts are a load of shit...ok...more facts for you...both Webb and Anderson said that two years ago right after the WSX announcement...both have since signed contracts to stay where they are and both will do so again soon...WSX will not get current top riders because they do not have manufacturer support, period. Without manufacturer salaries and bonuses what WSX will get is riders beyond their prime that are no longer competitive and privateers. This is the way it will be until the series is moved to the fall with dates that don't conflict with any other series.

2
GrapeApe
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6/8/2023 6:46am
GrapeApe wrote:

The biggest threat stateside would be WSX and Infront merging, with Mubadala money-whipping names like the Lawrences, Shimoda, Sexton, Deegan, etc. to race both FIM series.

DonM wrote:
Problem is the only way that would work is if WSX became a fall series because MXGP season runs from March - October and Luongo is...

Problem is the only way that would work is if WSX became a fall series because MXGP season runs from March - October and Luongo is too greedy to share…

I'm talking about if Mubadala ever gets serious and starts throwing real money toward motocross/supercross. Luongo can be bought and the schedules are easy to work out.

The amount of money committed by Mubadala at this point isn't going to be enough to sustain the series, much less cause any shakeups with Feld, MX Sports or Infront.

64smoker
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6/8/2023 6:58am
DonM wrote:
So you think they showed up at A1 as a vacation and just try to talk to every team and rider out of friendship? Bailey has...

So you think they showed up at A1 as a vacation and just try to talk to every team and rider out of friendship? Bailey has said in interviews that he was there to try to get the teams and riders to race his series and since that has said that he was too aggressive in the way he went about it and in retrospect it was a mistake. And no grasshopper I'm not against WSX, but I've always been against the time of year they chose to hold the races and as I have said in posts prior to their first race that by choosing the to race June (that was when they said they would start) through October was a mistake and would do nothing but have two series with depleted quality riders in each. As I've said and truly believe Bailey's biggest mistake was not making this a September through November series, its why he doesn't have manufacturer support, it's why his rider line up is full of B&C level riders and its also why he can't get top riders interested to race his series without shelling out millions to buy them.

64smoker wrote:
What a load of shit , roczen won a race this year , webbs spoke about being interested as well as  Anderson I believe , contracts...

What a load of shit , roczen won a race this year , webbs spoke about being interested as well as  Anderson I believe , contracts will change a lot over the next couple of years and you will see a lot more guys doing the brayton route , prolonging there career in the process , providing Adam Bailey does a good job with these events in 3- 5 years time it will have the majority of top riders 

DonM wrote:
So you think facts are a load of shit...ok...more facts for you...both Webb and Anderson said that two years ago right after the WSX announcement...both have...

So you think facts are a load of shit...ok...more facts for you...both Webb and Anderson said that two years ago right after the WSX announcement...both have since signed contracts to stay where they are and both will do so again soon...WSX will not get current top riders because they do not have manufacturer support, period. Without manufacturer salaries and bonuses what WSX will get is riders beyond their prime that are no longer competitive and privateers. This is the way it will be until the series is moved to the fall with dates that don't conflict with any other series.

What’s factual about saying roczens a b rider ….

1
64smoker
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6/8/2023 6:59am
64smoker wrote:
What a load of shit , roczen won a race this year , webbs spoke about being interested as well as  Anderson I believe , contracts...

What a load of shit , roczen won a race this year , webbs spoke about being interested as well as  Anderson I believe , contracts will change a lot over the next couple of years and you will see a lot more guys doing the brayton route , prolonging there career in the process , providing Adam Bailey does a good job with these events in 3- 5 years time it will have the majority of top riders 

DonM wrote:
So you think facts are a load of shit...ok...more facts for you...both Webb and Anderson said that two years ago right after the WSX announcement...both have...

So you think facts are a load of shit...ok...more facts for you...both Webb and Anderson said that two years ago right after the WSX announcement...both have since signed contracts to stay where they are and both will do so again soon...WSX will not get current top riders because they do not have manufacturer support, period. Without manufacturer salaries and bonuses what WSX will get is riders beyond their prime that are no longer competitive and privateers. This is the way it will be until the series is moved to the fall with dates that don't conflict with any other series.

64smoker wrote:

What’s factual about saying roczens a b rider ….

Colt savacy and roczen are all top 5 riders on there day , that’s a fact 

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stremme12
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6/8/2023 7:12am
DonM wrote:
So you think facts are a load of shit...ok...more facts for you...both Webb and Anderson said that two years ago right after the WSX announcement...both have...

So you think facts are a load of shit...ok...more facts for you...both Webb and Anderson said that two years ago right after the WSX announcement...both have since signed contracts to stay where they are and both will do so again soon...WSX will not get current top riders because they do not have manufacturer support, period. Without manufacturer salaries and bonuses what WSX will get is riders beyond their prime that are no longer competitive and privateers. This is the way it will be until the series is moved to the fall with dates that don't conflict with any other series.

64smoker wrote:

What’s factual about saying roczens a b rider ….

64smoker wrote:

Colt savacy and roczen are all top 5 riders on there day , that’s a fact 

Colt did get a 4th this year but that was his only top 5.

 

Savatgy hasn't had a top 5 on a 450 since 2019.

64smoker
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6/8/2023 7:18am
64smoker wrote:

What’s factual about saying roczens a b rider ….

64smoker wrote:

Colt savacy and roczen are all top 5 riders on there day , that’s a fact 

stremme12 wrote:

Colt did get a 4th this year but that was his only top 5.

 

Savatgy hasn't had a top 5 on a 450 since 2019.

Fair point but He was getting 8th/9ths as a privateer when the field was as stacked as I’ve ever seen it this year , he’s no b rider 

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DonM
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6/8/2023 8:42am
64smoker wrote:
What a load of shit , roczen won a race this year , webbs spoke about being interested as well as  Anderson I believe , contracts...

What a load of shit , roczen won a race this year , webbs spoke about being interested as well as  Anderson I believe , contracts will change a lot over the next couple of years and you will see a lot more guys doing the brayton route , prolonging there career in the process , providing Adam Bailey does a good job with these events in 3- 5 years time it will have the majority of top riders 

DonM wrote:
So you think facts are a load of shit...ok...more facts for you...both Webb and Anderson said that two years ago right after the WSX announcement...both have...

So you think facts are a load of shit...ok...more facts for you...both Webb and Anderson said that two years ago right after the WSX announcement...both have since signed contracts to stay where they are and both will do so again soon...WSX will not get current top riders because they do not have manufacturer support, period. Without manufacturer salaries and bonuses what WSX will get is riders beyond their prime that are no longer competitive and privateers. This is the way it will be until the series is moved to the fall with dates that don't conflict with any other series.

64smoker wrote:

What’s factual about saying roczens a b rider ….

Where did I say Kenny was a B rider? You have a reading comprehension problem

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