Glen Helen off the National List Again

Landonious217
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5/10/2023 6:29pm
kijen wrote:
Do track owners make enough profit to comply with MX SPORTS requirements.  Seems  the southeast had WW MX but I think the owner opted out? Or...

Do track owners make enough profit to comply with MX SPORTS requirements.  Seems  the southeast had WW MX but I think the owner opted out? Or was it really the heat... that half the pros routinely practice in?

I didn't hear it from the horses mouth, rather from one of the track workers when camping at Freestone. But Tony Miller (RIP) lost money every on every national they hosted according to that worker. 

Johnny Ringo
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5/10/2023 8:23pm
kijen wrote:
Do track owners make enough profit to comply with MX SPORTS requirements.  Seems  the southeast had WW MX but I think the owner opted out? Or...

Do track owners make enough profit to comply with MX SPORTS requirements.  Seems  the southeast had WW MX but I think the owner opted out? Or was it really the heat... that half the pros routinely practice in?

I didn't hear it from the horses mouth, rather from one of the track workers when camping at Freestone. But Tony Miller (RIP) lost money every...

I didn't hear it from the horses mouth, rather from one of the track workers when camping at Freestone. But Tony Miller (RIP) lost money every on every national they hosted according to that worker. 

And now they all have to put in those STUPID metal grates

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BobbyMyers
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5/10/2023 8:33pm
kijen wrote:
Do track owners make enough profit to comply with MX SPORTS requirements.  Seems  the southeast had WW MX but I think the owner opted out? Or...

Do track owners make enough profit to comply with MX SPORTS requirements.  Seems  the southeast had WW MX but I think the owner opted out? Or was it really the heat... that half the pros routinely practice in?

I didn't hear it from the horses mouth, rather from one of the track workers when camping at Freestone. But Tony Miller (RIP) lost money every...

I didn't hear it from the horses mouth, rather from one of the track workers when camping at Freestone. But Tony Miller (RIP) lost money every on every national they hosted according to that worker. 

And now they all have to put in those STUPID metal grates

No they don't. 

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ML512
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5/10/2023 8:55pm

And now they all have to put in those STUPID metal grates

The series has made them and will transport them to every round. They’re not the responsibility of the track promoters.

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The Shop

Johnny Ringo
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5/10/2023 9:00pm

And now they all have to put in those STUPID metal grates

ML512 wrote:

The series has made them and will transport them to every round. They’re not the responsibility of the track promoters.

Huh, I guess I am fake news. Thanks for the facts ML

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mb60
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5/10/2023 9:55pm

I'm pretty sure that the owner of Binghamton Sold his  contract   to the Promoters of the Freestone National years ago. Something along those lines.

And the Miller family at freestone sold there race to Lakewood. 

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Landonious217
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5/11/2023 4:43am

I'm pretty sure that the owner of Binghamton Sold his  contract   to the Promoters of the Freestone National years ago. Something along those lines.

mb60 wrote:

And the Miller family at freestone sold there race to Lakewood. 

I don't think so. Thunder Valley and Freestone were on the schedule together 2007 - 2012.

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TheDennisSystem
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5/11/2023 4:53am

Imagine that. Threads and replies being deleted because “they said so” 

ML512 wrote:
The last couple of times it was posted it was under fake accounts that the Glen Helen staff were creating. Bud actually directly called me to...

The last couple of times it was posted it was under fake accounts that the Glen Helen staff were creating. Bud actually directly called me to ask why they were being taken down. I explained why and told them if they wanted to own it and post it under an account representing their track then I'd let it roll. They said they would and never did.

How do you know they were “fake accounts” when anyone can create an anonymous account? 

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GrapeApe
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5/11/2023 5:42am

I'm pretty sure that the owner of Binghamton Sold his  contract   to the Promoters of the Freestone National years ago. Something along those lines.

mb60 wrote:

And the Miller family at freestone sold there race to Lakewood. 

I don't think so. Thunder Valley and Freestone were on the schedule together 2007 - 2012.

I thought it went to Muddy Creek, then WW, then Pala 2, then off the schedule.

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BobbyMyers
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5/11/2023 6:06am

Imagine that. Threads and replies being deleted because “they said so” 

ML512 wrote:
The last couple of times it was posted it was under fake accounts that the Glen Helen staff were creating. Bud actually directly called me to...

The last couple of times it was posted it was under fake accounts that the Glen Helen staff were creating. Bud actually directly called me to ask why they were being taken down. I explained why and told them if they wanted to own it and post it under an account representing their track then I'd let it roll. They said they would and never did.

How do you know they were “fake accounts” when anyone can create an anonymous account? 

Deductive reasoning... Common sense... Reactionary mystery phone calls.. etc.

I'm just guessing. 

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yak651
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5/11/2023 6:08am
chrisg19 wrote:
I suggest you search out the article MXA did with the owners of Glen Helen "Why doesn't Glen Helen have a National". It's pretty enlightening and...

I suggest you search out the article MXA did with the owners of Glen Helen "Why doesn't Glen Helen have a National". It's pretty enlightening and doesn't paint DC in the best light. Of course, there are always two sides, but the last time I linked the article my post disappeared. 

That article was long after the fact and is baloney.  Budd thinks he's king and Jody is his jester.

You usually have pretty solid responses, but the reply above is a little ironic when a post before it you wrote: "They are grown ups who can't agree on a deal and are free to choose not to deal with each other.  It happens every day in the adult world."

It's perfectly fine to say 2 sides to every story but also be willing to say you may be a bit biased towards the side you are supporting.  And I'm writing this with the opinion that Glen Helen did a terrible job acting professionally dealing with MX Sports and how they should been able to "interact" with the stars of the sport.

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yak651
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5/11/2023 6:10am
kijen wrote:
Do track owners make enough profit to comply with MX SPORTS requirements.  Seems  the southeast had WW MX but I think the owner opted out? Or...

Do track owners make enough profit to comply with MX SPORTS requirements.  Seems  the southeast had WW MX but I think the owner opted out? Or was it really the heat... that half the pros routinely practice in?

I didn't hear it from the horses mouth, rather from one of the track workers when camping at Freestone. But Tony Miller (RIP) lost money every...

I didn't hear it from the horses mouth, rather from one of the track workers when camping at Freestone. But Tony Miller (RIP) lost money every on every national they hosted according to that worker. 

I realize promoters are in it to make a living and not lose money, but it's too bad the promotors in the US AND Europe can't figure out a way to run races at desirable locations that can be a win/win for all involved, including the MXoN.

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ML512
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5/11/2023 6:56am

How do you know they were “fake accounts” when anyone can create an anonymous account? 

Simple, brand new account posting that story with no other posting history, suspicious email account used to sign up. Well, and the fact when clipped I got a phone call about it from Bud.

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holeshot413
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5/11/2023 7:09am

I just want to see a national at a rad true motocross track!

but after 60 years in SoCal I’m on the east coast now, but they’re isn’t a track out there that rivals Glen Helen 

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GrapeApe
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5/11/2023 7:11am

How do you know they were “fake accounts” when anyone can create an anonymous account? 

ML512 wrote:
Simple, brand new account posting that story with no other posting history, suspicious email account used to sign up. Well, and the fact when clipped I...

Simple, brand new account posting that story with no other posting history, suspicious email account used to sign up. Well, and the fact when clipped I got a phone call about it from Bud.

Have you figured out who is posing as Schofield's dad in the claimgate thread? lol

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FreshTopEnd
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5/11/2023 7:47am
chrisg19 wrote:
I suggest you search out the article MXA did with the owners of Glen Helen "Why doesn't Glen Helen have a National". It's pretty enlightening and...

I suggest you search out the article MXA did with the owners of Glen Helen "Why doesn't Glen Helen have a National". It's pretty enlightening and doesn't paint DC in the best light. Of course, there are always two sides, but the last time I linked the article my post disappeared. 

That article was long after the fact and is baloney.  Budd thinks he's king and Jody is his jester.

yak651 wrote:
You usually have pretty solid responses, but the reply above is a little ironic when a post before it you wrote: "They are grown ups who...

You usually have pretty solid responses, but the reply above is a little ironic when a post before it you wrote: "They are grown ups who can't agree on a deal and are free to choose not to deal with each other.  It happens every day in the adult world."

It's perfectly fine to say 2 sides to every story but also be willing to say you may be a bit biased towards the side you are supporting.  And I'm writing this with the opinion that Glen Helen did a terrible job acting professionally dealing with MX Sports and how they should been able to "interact" with the stars of the sport.

Not really ironic if you think it through.  The article came out in 2012 and MXSports and GH ran Nationals from 2014-2018 (brokered by Mitch and some others) before the relationship soured again.  So apparently for a period adulthood reigned.  

I definitely do not remember Bud doubling the purse to $125K at the 2014 round, as promised in the 2012 fluffer piece.  But maybe he did.

The MXA article and Bud's premise was that NPG was a partnership with the tracks owing one another fiduciary duties, which (a) NPG wasn't and (b) frankly the last thing Bud would want is to owe fiduciary duties to others, which require you to subordinate your self interest to the collective interest. He is a free bird who flies on his own and does what he wants.

My understanding, and I spent a fair bit of time on this back then, was that DMG did not want to herd cats with individual tracks and deal with NPG after DMG bought the for-profit AMA Pro Racing/Paradama from the AMA in 2008.  The sale was down to DMG and Youthsteam with Luongo trying to take over US MX.  The AMA elected not to sell different series off piece by piece, and DMG was willing to buy it all - flat track, road racing, and MX (SX as locked up already), not something any of the NPG track owners were willing or able to do.  Any NPG collective was out of the mix by the time the AMA decided the sell AMA Pro Racing to DMG over Youthstream.  It was up to DMG to deal with who they wanted to.  

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LungButter
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5/11/2023 7:48am
kijen wrote:
Do track owners make enough profit to comply with MX SPORTS requirements.  Seems  the southeast had WW MX but I think the owner opted out? Or...

Do track owners make enough profit to comply with MX SPORTS requirements.  Seems  the southeast had WW MX but I think the owner opted out? Or was it really the heat... that half the pros routinely practice in?

Well, most of them stick with it year after year so you would think they are making some $$ right?

I heard a rumor (from a good source) once that the $$ from the National is what keeps Washougal afloat and able to operate the other 364 days a year.

All these other tracks can make it work except Glen Helen....I know it's like the cool kid thing to do to bash DC and his family around here these days but take a step back and think how can Red Budd, Budds Creek, Millville, Washougal etc. etc. all make it work over and over but for some reason Glen Helen can't? Hmmmmm

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FreshTopEnd
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5/11/2023 7:53am

I'm pretty sure that the owner of Binghamton Sold his  contract   to the Promoters of the Freestone National years ago. Something along those lines.

mb60 wrote:

And the Miller family at freestone sold there race to Lakewood. 

I don't think so. Thunder Valley and Freestone were on the schedule together 2007 - 2012.

I thought Lakewood took over Binghamton and Freestone took over the Steel City slot 

Johnny Ringo
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5/11/2023 7:58am Edited Date/Time 5/11/2023 8:03am
mb60 wrote:

And the Miller family at freestone sold there race to Lakewood. 

I don't think so. Thunder Valley and Freestone were on the schedule together 2007 - 2012.

I thought Lakewood took over Binghamton and Freestone took over the Steel City slot 

Lakewood and Binghamton were both on the schedule in 05 and 06. I think Lakewood took over Troy

 

Freestone took over Broome’s spot in 07. Steel City didn’t drop off until 2012 I think 

yak651
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5/11/2023 8:40am
kijen wrote:
Do track owners make enough profit to comply with MX SPORTS requirements.  Seems  the southeast had WW MX but I think the owner opted out? Or...

Do track owners make enough profit to comply with MX SPORTS requirements.  Seems  the southeast had WW MX but I think the owner opted out? Or was it really the heat... that half the pros routinely practice in?

LungButter wrote:
Well, most of them stick with it year after year so you would think they are making some $$ right? I heard a rumor (from a...

Well, most of them stick with it year after year so you would think they are making some $$ right?

I heard a rumor (from a good source) once that the $$ from the National is what keeps Washougal afloat and able to operate the other 364 days a year.

All these other tracks can make it work except Glen Helen....I know it's like the cool kid thing to do to bash DC and his family around here these days but take a step back and think how can Red Budd, Budds Creek, Millville, Washougal etc. etc. all make it work over and over but for some reason Glen Helen can't? Hmmmmm

Not every track except Glen Helen.  Was many others in South East that couldn't make it turn a profit as they can't get the turn out of Red Bud or Millville.  Is that DCs problem?  No but maybe there could be a way to make it work for a track to make it worth their efforts even if they don't get huge turn outs.

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LungButter
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5/11/2023 8:50am
yak651 wrote:
Not every track except Glen Helen.  Was many others in South East that couldn't make it turn a profit as they can't get the turn out...

Not every track except Glen Helen.  Was many others in South East that couldn't make it turn a profit as they can't get the turn out of Red Bud or Millville.  Is that DCs problem?  No but maybe there could be a way to make it work for a track to make it worth their efforts even if they don't get huge turn outs.

Fair enough....but that's pretty much a different topic as I don't think turn out and profitability are what keeps Glen Helen off the schedule.

What keeps them off the schedule is they refuse to play by MXSports rules, want to sell their own VIP areas, have their own sponsors etc. etc.

For what it's worth I HATE the VIP areas that MXSports sells, they ruin the viewing for a lot of fans...especially at 'Shougal they set up that monstrosity of a tent right in the infield and it sits pretty much empty the whole race.  But....that still doesn't mean that GH should be able to do whatever they want and just expect MXSports to go along with it.

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NorCal1975
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5/11/2023 9:20am

Anyone know when Buds lease of Glen Helen expires?  When he no longer controls the property and track is there a better chance we get a national back there?  I miss that track, Pala is so vanilla compared to Glen Helen, both in person and on TV...  

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aeffertz
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5/11/2023 10:37am
GrapeApe wrote:

We just need Mr. Info to post some nonsense in this thread to bait DC out of retirement

ML512 wrote:

He was perma-banned a while back around three years ago.

1911 wrote:

3 years ago??? Where does time go?

I thought I was losing my mind too! Looks like it was just last year, not 3 years ago. 
 

https://www.vitalmx.com/community/mr-info,20189/all#all

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TheDennisSystem
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5/11/2023 10:55am

How do you know they were “fake accounts” when anyone can create an anonymous account? 

ML512 wrote:
Simple, brand new account posting that story with no other posting history, suspicious email account used to sign up. Well, and the fact when clipped I...

Simple, brand new account posting that story with no other posting history, suspicious email account used to sign up. Well, and the fact when clipped I got a phone call about it from Bud.

Or they could’ve been GH fans who decided to create an an account and chime in.  But we can’t have people speaking up against the almighty DC right?  

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1911
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5/11/2023 11:07am
aeffertz wrote:

I thought I was losing my mind too! Looks like it was just last year, not 3 years ago. 
 

https://www.vitalmx.com/community/mr-info,20189/all#all

No kidding, if ML said 8 or 9 months ago, I would have thought, that seems about right.🤦‍♂️🤪

ML512
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5/11/2023 11:09am
ML512 wrote:

He was perma-banned a while back around three years ago.

1911 wrote:

3 years ago??? Where does time go?

aeffertz wrote:

I thought I was losing my mind too! Looks like it was just last year, not 3 years ago. 
 

https://www.vitalmx.com/community/mr-info,20189/all#all

Hmmm I guess it was! When I looked at his profile on my end it shows last active three years ago. 

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ML512
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5/11/2023 11:12am
Or they could’ve been GH fans who decided to create an an account and chime in.  But we can’t have people speaking up against the almighty...

Or they could’ve been GH fans who decided to create an an account and chime in.  But we can’t have people speaking up against the almighty DC right?  

Again, I had suspicions based on the email account that it was someone representing the track and it was. It was fairly obvious from what I can see that it wasn’t a random fan. And if my objectives were to defend DC to the death you wouldn’t have seen all the negative threads about him last year continue to roll and he’d probably still be posting here.

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5/11/2023 11:28am
mb60 wrote:

And the Miller family at freestone sold there race to Lakewood. 

I don't think so. Thunder Valley and Freestone were on the schedule together 2007 - 2012.

I thought Lakewood took over Binghamton and Freestone took over the Steel City slot 

I'm 100% sure that Freestone took Binghamton's slot over.  A friend of mine lives out there and knew a lot of the people running the track back then.  I can not remember the reason he said they wanted to sell it. But I was surprised. I loved that place , the track itself was for sale not long ago.  

FreshTopEnd
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5/11/2023 11:44am

Yup, corrected by Johnny Ringo, from down Tombstone way, a couple posts up.  Thinking then that the Steel City round went to Muddy Creek?  

Glad I don't have to keep track of any ex wives

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Johnny Ringo
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5/11/2023 12:09pm
Yup, corrected by Johnny Ringo, from down Tombstone way, a couple posts up.  Thinking then that the Steel City round went to Muddy Creek?   Glad I...

Yup, corrected by Johnny Ringo, from down Tombstone way, a couple posts up.  Thinking then that the Steel City round went to Muddy Creek?  

Glad I don't have to keep track of any ex wives

It got weird from 2012-16. Elsinore, Utah, Muddy Creek all took turns. Southwick got dumped for a few. 

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