Final Words on 2 Stroke vs 4 Stroke

Tiki wrote:

Two strokes are no harder or easier to maintain then a four stroke. All you dolts that can't adjust valves needs to turn in their man...

Two strokes are no harder or easier to maintain then a four stroke. All you dolts that can't adjust valves needs to turn in their man card.

miedosoracing1 wrote:

First, I'd like to say this. Everyone who called DC names and all the bad stuff posted about people and not the subject. You kinda screwed...

First, I'd like to say this. Everyone who called DC names and all the bad stuff posted about people and not the subject. You kinda screwed yourselves over. Yes, we can close the door on this subject as far as Pro AMA. That being said, I'd like to say, I understand DC's stance and why decisions are made. First, we all know that PC, FC etc and OEM's all have most of the say. DC's stance obviously is to start it out in things that are lower on the totem pole, and show them that it is fair. Thus, having it for womens, GNCC, LL and other things, shows he actually is fighting for the cause. Someday, maybe it will be in pro motocross and pro supercross. People who called him names are just as closed minded as the 4 stroke people that are closed minded like MX7MX. Thus, we are closing the door on one side. But I've always been told, when one door closes, the other opens.

SO, here goes. Anyone that has been fighting for the 2 stroke to live. PUT UP OR SHUT UP. I am going forward with something and will need your help. This obviously isn't easy, otherwise DC wouldn't be going crazy. Anyways, here is what I need from you. Find tracks that are of National Caliber, and that are not in the outdoor Pro AMA series. I have 0 want to compete against Pro AMA sports and MX Sports. Not for the competing reason many think, but I respect DC to much to try to sabatoge anything. My only goal here is to open doors that have been closed for so long. I know there are national type tracks in Texas, and other places. We can focus on 10 tracks is my initial plan. Here are the racing classes and basic rules. There will be much more to come, but this is just an info piece.
Here is my thoughts on all of this. This is a grand opportunity for companies and teams like Service Honda. There will be no initial Homo rules, so they would be a perfect fit along with TM, Husky etc. I will be trying to contact sponsors like that soon. With different classes, we may open a whole new avenue? Old school becoming new school is my first thought.
First, it will be run much like the Desnations. ProNMX Pro National MX. MX1, MX2, MX3 all mixed to race against eachother, points will be seperate.
classes. All things are open to change at a later date.
MX1 125cc 2 stroke and 200cc 4 strokes. These will be ages up to 19.
MX2 250cc 2 stroke and 350cc 4 stroke. Over bored 250F's are permitted
MX3 Open class above other cc class restrictions. Perfect for 500AF's, or bored 490cc 4 stroke Athena kits etc.
In between each race, there will be a 10 minute seperation race. It will have the following
100cc 2 stroke and 150cc 4 strokes 14-16 males plus, Pro Females, 144cc 2 stroke and stock 250cc 4 strokes. No internal mods on the 4 strokes. The benefits of 4 strokes for females probably outway any porting etc work of a 144cc 2 stroke. The top 20 of each will compete against eachother. 2 10 minute motos.
Via suggestion Tiki: some sort of clean race, IE: electric or maybe clean 2 stroke race.

Riders will be able to sell their own clothing lines. IE: like football, you buy Tony Romos jersey.


My other thoughts are that retired racers who are interested in racing pro, may come out. I will put up and be spreading info on the Pro license soon. $10 servicing fee is the only cost. We will not be charging Pro racers to race. The payouts will be as high as possible. But it obviously will have to grow. Always wondered the reason to charge a pro to race. It isn't like we charge Tony Romo to play football every week? Another rule, is protection will be manditory. Some sort of neck brace, even a donut. Saying someone could still get hurt, thus sue, doesn't sit well with me. Helmets are manditory, but we still see tons of head injuries. Back and front protectors will be manditory to help prevent injuries by flying motorcycles crashing into the fallen rider etc. 90 db sound on 4 strokes at 10,000 RPM and 92 db at 7,000 RPM 2 strokes. That will change to agree with a certain pipe company who is working with us, but just initial thoughts. We are going to kill a ton of birds with 1 stone. Sound, safety, parity.


Anyways, slam away. I've decided after all of these heated battles, it's time to put up or shut up. I will have the company started soon. So more info will follow.

Anyone interested in donating, helping etc, please contact me. admin@miedosoracing.com

miedosoracing1 wrote:

First, I'd like to say this. Everyone who called DC names and all the bad stuff posted about people and not the subject. You kinda screwed...

First, I'd like to say this. Everyone who called DC names and all the bad stuff posted about people and not the subject. You kinda screwed yourselves over. Yes, we can close the door on this subject as far as Pro AMA. That being said, I'd like to say, I understand DC's stance and why decisions are made. First, we all know that PC, FC etc and OEM's all have most of the say. DC's stance obviously is to start it out in things that are lower on the totem pole, and show them that it is fair. Thus, having it for womens, GNCC, LL and other things, shows he actually is fighting for the cause. Someday, maybe it will be in pro motocross and pro supercross. People who called him names are just as closed minded as the 4 stroke people that are closed minded like MX7MX. Thus, we are closing the door on one side. But I've always been told, when one door closes, the other opens.

SO, here goes. Anyone that has been fighting for the 2 stroke to live. PUT UP OR SHUT UP. I am going forward with something and will need your help. This obviously isn't easy, otherwise DC wouldn't be going crazy. Anyways, here is what I need from you. Find tracks that are of National Caliber, and that are not in the outdoor Pro AMA series. I have 0 want to compete against Pro AMA sports and MX Sports. Not for the competing reason many think, but I respect DC to much to try to sabatoge anything. My only goal here is to open doors that have been closed for so long. I know there are national type tracks in Texas, and other places. We can focus on 10 tracks is my initial plan. Here are the racing classes and basic rules. There will be much more to come, but this is just an info piece.
Here is my thoughts on all of this. This is a grand opportunity for companies and teams like Service Honda. There will be no initial Homo rules, so they would be a perfect fit along with TM, Husky etc. I will be trying to contact sponsors like that soon. With different classes, we may open a whole new avenue? Old school becoming new school is my first thought.
First, it will be run much like the Desnations. ProNMX Pro National MX. MX1, MX2, MX3 all mixed to race against eachother, points will be seperate.
classes. All things are open to change at a later date.
MX1 125cc 2 stroke and 200cc 4 strokes. These will be ages up to 19.
MX2 250cc 2 stroke and 350cc 4 stroke. Over bored 250F's are permitted
MX3 Open class above other cc class restrictions. Perfect for 500AF's, or bored 490cc 4 stroke Athena kits etc.
In between each race, there will be a 10 minute seperation race. It will have the following
100cc 2 stroke and 150cc 4 strokes 14-16 males plus, Pro Females, 144cc 2 stroke and stock 250cc 4 strokes. No internal mods on the 4 strokes. The benefits of 4 strokes for females probably outway any porting etc work of a 144cc 2 stroke. The top 20 of each will compete against eachother. 2 10 minute motos.
Via suggestion Tiki: some sort of clean race, IE: electric or maybe clean 2 stroke race.

Riders will be able to sell their own clothing lines. IE: like football, you buy Tony Romos jersey.


My other thoughts are that retired racers who are interested in racing pro, may come out. I will put up and be spreading info on the Pro license soon. $10 servicing fee is the only cost. We will not be charging Pro racers to race. The payouts will be as high as possible. But it obviously will have to grow. Always wondered the reason to charge a pro to race. It isn't like we charge Tony Romo to play football every week? Another rule, is protection will be manditory. Some sort of neck brace, even a donut. Saying someone could still get hurt, thus sue, doesn't sit well with me. Helmets are manditory, but we still see tons of head injuries. Back and front protectors will be manditory to help prevent injuries by flying motorcycles crashing into the fallen rider etc. 90 db sound on 4 strokes at 10,000 RPM and 92 db at 7,000 RPM 2 strokes. That will change to agree with a certain pipe company who is working with us, but just initial thoughts. We are going to kill a ton of birds with 1 stone. Sound, safety, parity.


Anyways, slam away. I've decided after all of these heated battles, it's time to put up or shut up. I will have the company started soon. So more info will follow.

Anyone interested in donating, helping etc, please contact me. admin@miedosoracing.com

JustMX wrote:

The racing is better? The equipment is better? I guess it depends on one's definition of better. Maybe yours isn't the most objective view. I am...

The racing is better?

The equipment is better?

I guess it depends on one's definition of better.

Maybe yours isn't the most objective view.

I am wondering if the economy has hit your business as hard as it has hit running amatuer racing events.

Just curious as to when the last time you had to buy (or sell) a bike.

mx836 wrote:

If that is honestly the way you feel GuyB, then you haven't been to many amateur races around the country lately.

Lightning78 wrote:

You know, I realized something today as I was looking at my CRF250 service manual (A bike I am currently trying to sell) For all of...

You know, I realized something today as I was looking at my CRF250 service manual (A bike I am currently trying to sell) For all of you 4 stroke lovers take a look and scan through your service manual and make an observation of these things: Total moving parts in the engine, SPECIALIZED Tools required to do a service on ANYTHING 4 stroke related (head, valves, cam chain, etc.) that you wouldn't want to pay a mint to have a dealer mechanic do just as preventative maintenance, and all the technical jargon that is associated with factory suggested maintenance, AND how complicated and sensitive 4 strokes are to the hundreds of maintenance things neede to keep them safely running ....you will se that there are MULTIPLE areas for failure that need to be routinely checked and serviced that would almost need a masters degree in engineering to understand and the equation for calculating correct valve shims the first time is almost algebraic. Now look at a 2 stroke manual and compare......If you have the stones to do it yourself you are a very small minority and spending $$$ on the correct tools to even do a valve job is ridiculous not to mention the parts cost.

Now if it grenades ....... how much does that cost you? My point is that there are exponetially more areas for failure that tie into all major areas of the engine operation

Lightning78 wrote:

You know, I realized something today as I was looking at my CRF250 service manual (A bike I am currently trying to sell) For all of...

You know, I realized something today as I was looking at my CRF250 service manual (A bike I am currently trying to sell) For all of you 4 stroke lovers take a look and scan through your service manual and make an observation of these things: Total moving parts in the engine, SPECIALIZED Tools required to do a service on ANYTHING 4 stroke related (head, valves, cam chain, etc.) that you wouldn't want to pay a mint to have a dealer mechanic do just as preventative maintenance, and all the technical jargon that is associated with factory suggested maintenance, AND how complicated and sensitive 4 strokes are to the hundreds of maintenance things neede to keep them safely running ....you will se that there are MULTIPLE areas for failure that need to be routinely checked and serviced that would almost need a masters degree in engineering to understand and the equation for calculating correct valve shims the first time is almost algebraic. Now look at a 2 stroke manual and compare......If you have the stones to do it yourself you are a very small minority and spending $$$ on the correct tools to even do a valve job is ridiculous not to mention the parts cost.

Now if it grenades ....... how much does that cost you? My point is that there are exponetially more areas for failure that tie into all major areas of the engine operation

JOHN CHOATE wrote:

I think it was in my Honda manual for my 450(in '04) that suggested replacing the chain every 3 hours or rides(don't remember which). It stated...

I think it was in my Honda manual for my 450(in '04) that suggested replacing the chain every 3 hours or rides(don't remember which). It stated something ridiculous whatever it was.

Tiki wrote:

Two strokes are no harder or easier to maintain then a four stroke. All you dolts that can't adjust valves needs to turn in their man...

Two strokes are no harder or easier to maintain then a four stroke. All you dolts that can't adjust valves needs to turn in their man card.

The Rock wrote:

Regardless of the valve deal you can't compare a grand for a four stroke rebuild to 150 to 200 bucks for a two stroke.

Tiki wrote:

Rock, you haven't paid a grand to rebuild a four stroke have you? Come on. I have rebuilt mine twice and still haven't hit a grand...

Rock, you haven't paid a grand to rebuild a four stroke have you? Come on. I have rebuilt mine twice and still haven't hit a grand. Yes two strokes have less moving parts, but need those parts twice as much.

In the scheme of things four strokes are just not that complicated. Thats what I am getting at. To keep this on topic, I want to see two strokes develop to what the four stroke has. Top of technology, small displacements with maximum efficiency.