Mass Dampers in MX?

devotid
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devotid 4/6/2023 1:12am
4/6/2023 1:12am

It has been around since 2002 and we havent even seen one yet? Must be really good at keeping secrets.

 

Can anyone provide a picture of one mounted on a bike? Im just looking for a scale and position on the forks reference. Thank you.

 

Tim507
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Tim507 4/6/2023 4:54am
4/6/2023 4:54am
devotid wrote:
It has been around since 2002 and we havent even seen one yet? Must be really good at keeping secrets.   Can anyone provide a picture...

It has been around since 2002 and we havent even seen one yet? Must be really good at keeping secrets.

 

Can anyone provide a picture of one mounted on a bike? Im just looking for a scale and position on the forks reference. Thank you.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZ7UDVhiOz8

onewheelwheaties 4/6/2023 5:44am
4/6/2023 5:44am
Nate71 wrote:
A very high frequency impact would be something in the range of 12-13 Hz . That would be something like a log or a rock. A...

A very high frequency impact would be something in the range of 12-13 Hz . That would be something like a log or a rock. A low frequency impact would be something more like 2-3Hz. Those are the far ends of the spectrum but Most Impacts that You Encounter while riding are in the exact center of that range. For example breaking bumps are a direct result of the average frequency that created those bumps pushing the dirt into piles. So those are greatly attenuated. 

On a hard high frequency hit the the 1.5 pounds can Impact over 30 pounds. So if you had a 90 pound Impact coming through the bars you would only feel 60 of it.

This keeps being call a tuned mass damper but the true scientific definition doesn't have a bottoming component like the countershox has. That aspect of it makes it particularly advantageous In motocross. I hope that clears up some of the questions but feel free to ask more and I will try to be as clear as possible. Thank you 

Thank you, that is exactly what I was wondering about and I really appreciate the insight. I only have a rudimentary understanding of tuned mass dampers and was curious how it is adapted to such a dynamic application like moto. 

Regarding the bottoming component, I assume you mean the countershox has some kind of system to keep the mass from suddenly bottoming in the tube, such as a way to ramp the deceleration as it approaches bottoming? 

Nate71
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Nate71 4/6/2023 5:54am
4/6/2023 5:54am
Nate71 wrote:
A very high frequency impact would be something in the range of 12-13 Hz . That would be something like a log or a rock. A...

A very high frequency impact would be something in the range of 12-13 Hz . That would be something like a log or a rock. A low frequency impact would be something more like 2-3Hz. Those are the far ends of the spectrum but Most Impacts that You Encounter while riding are in the exact center of that range. For example breaking bumps are a direct result of the average frequency that created those bumps pushing the dirt into piles. So those are greatly attenuated. 

On a hard high frequency hit the the 1.5 pounds can Impact over 30 pounds. So if you had a 90 pound Impact coming through the bars you would only feel 60 of it.

This keeps being call a tuned mass damper but the true scientific definition doesn't have a bottoming component like the countershox has. That aspect of it makes it particularly advantageous In motocross. I hope that clears up some of the questions but feel free to ask more and I will try to be as clear as possible. Thank you 

onewheelwheaties wrote:
Thank you, that is exactly what I was wondering about and I really appreciate the insight. I only have a rudimentary understanding of tuned mass dampers...

Thank you, that is exactly what I was wondering about and I really appreciate the insight. I only have a rudimentary understanding of tuned mass dampers and was curious how it is adapted to such a dynamic application like moto. 

Regarding the bottoming component, I assume you mean the countershox has some kind of system to keep the mass from suddenly bottoming in the tube, such as a way to ramp the deceleration as it approaches bottoming? 

Yes sir you are correct 

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slowgti
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slowgti 4/6/2023 7:15am
4/6/2023 7:15am

Ok cool, from my limited knowledge it seems like it is a 2 part device. One is a harmonic dampener tuned to higher frequencies that you would feel through the bars. The other is a counter weight used to ‘deaden’ the feel of bottoming the forks due to a counter weight. If I am understanding it correctly, it’s an interesting device. 

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FWYT
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FWYT 4/6/2023 7:37am
4/6/2023 7:37am

Nate71 - Appreciate you coming in here and giving some info. Thanks!

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Coughlin639
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Coughlin639 4/6/2023 10:32am
4/6/2023 10:32am

It definitely would be neat to see Kris Keefer get his hands on one!

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devotid
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devotid 4/6/2023 1:44pm
4/6/2023 1:44pm

Wouldnt the riders "arm forces" negate the effectiveness? Like... A lot?

I could see this on a A arm or swing arm were its just counteracting the forces of the movement.... but the counter forces from arms would negate this... no?

How much does it weigh?

Nate71
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Nate71 4/6/2023 8:38pm
4/6/2023 8:38pm
Coughlin639 wrote:

It definitely would be neat to see Kris Keefer get his hands on one!

I asked him but haven't got any commitment to test but I would be happy to hear his thoughts! 

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Cobbler
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Cobbler 4/6/2023 9:26pm
4/6/2023 9:26pm
devotid wrote:
Wouldnt the riders "arm forces" negate the effectiveness? Like... A lot? I could see this on a A arm or swing arm were its just counteracting...

Wouldnt the riders "arm forces" negate the effectiveness? Like... A lot?

I could see this on a A arm or swing arm were its just counteracting the forces of the movement.... but the counter forces from arms would negate this... no?

How much does it weigh?

This device would return the force to the forks. It would actually reduce input to the arms.

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Nate71
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Nate71 4/7/2023 5:34am
4/7/2023 5:34am
devotid wrote:
Wouldnt the riders "arm forces" negate the effectiveness? Like... A lot? I could see this on a A arm or swing arm were its just counteracting...

Wouldnt the riders "arm forces" negate the effectiveness? Like... A lot?

I could see this on a A arm or swing arm were its just counteracting the forces of the movement.... but the counter forces from arms would negate this... no?

How much does it weigh?

It greatly reduces fatigue and improves front end traction. If you check out my Instagram and read the different testimonials @counter_shox 

Nate71
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Nate71 4/7/2023 5:36am
4/7/2023 5:36am
devotid wrote:
Wouldnt the riders "arm forces" negate the effectiveness? Like... A lot? I could see this on a A arm or swing arm were its just counteracting...

Wouldnt the riders "arm forces" negate the effectiveness? Like... A lot?

I could see this on a A arm or swing arm were its just counteracting the forces of the movement.... but the counter forces from arms would negate this... no?

How much does it weigh?

1.5 pounds 

Crutcher
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Crutcher 4/7/2023 7:58am
4/7/2023 7:58am

We ran them in Arenacross in 22-23, and had mixed - though positive - response. 
 

Cloyed honestly didn’t notice a difference but Dillon is not a big bike setup guy. 
 

Branden Walther absolutely loved it and said it gave the front wheel a very precise feeling upon corner entry. 
 

Where I noticed the benefit was it helped level the bike in the air very predictably. It’s a small difference but I did enjoy it. 
 

I also continued to run them outdoors, and when I was doing moto on hard and choppy conditions, it kept the front wheel planted. It also numbed the harshness some folks complain about the AER fork produces, specifically on flat landing and slap downs. In off-road, roots and logs become so much less violent, and I see the CS as an absolute must for off-road riding. I have one on my off-road bike right now. 

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183Matt
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183Matt 4/7/2023 12:12pm
4/7/2023 12:12pm

Just ordered one.  I’m looking forward to trying it.

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ADynes
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ADynes 4/7/2023 5:26pm
4/7/2023 5:26pm

This is the kind of thing I'd love to see some blind testing done on. Three units swapped around throughout a full day.

1) hollowed out, as light as possible 

2) standard product. 

3) same weight as standard part but no moving parts. 

Have each rider try each one multiple times and see how consistant the feedback is

 

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