So, when KTM sales don't fall, and all the big 4's do????

2T42
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2T42 10/12/2009 8:32pm
10/12/2009 8:32pm
Torco1 wrote:
Each and ever time I go to the track(s) and I go 2-3 times a week, I make it a point to look and see how...
Each and ever time I go to the track(s) and I go 2-3 times a week, I make it a point to look and see how many 4-strokes are out there and how many 2-strokes are out there. Within the past 6 months or so I've been seeing the 2-strokes slowly catch the amount of 4-strokes that are out there. 2-strokes are definitley sticking around and the demand is there for them. If the big 4 dont get their heads out of their asses they are just going to bury themselves. It all comes down to pride with them and the way it stands right now, they have to much pride to admit that trying to phase out the 2-stroke with the 4-stroke was not the right move.
At our local practice track, there were NO 2 strokes three years ago. Now there are usually 30-40% and sometimes half. Big change in the tide. In MI at log Road it was maybe 5% three years ago and now they are all over the place. At least 25% and closer to 30 last time we were there. The 2 strokes were first around the first turn often! Three years ago you saw a couple of guys in the back of the pack. Now more so in the front under faster guys. This means some of the better A riders are getting back to business.

You said it. "They" tried to phase them out. It is not up to "they" the big 4. They were presumptuous enough to think it was but the demand is still there and many of those buyers will not drink the Kool Aid even if it means switching brands. I for one am not sad to see the big 4 lose business to KTM and I am going orange soon as well along with several other racers I know.
newmann
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newmann 10/12/2009 8:42pm
10/12/2009 8:42pm
miedosoracing1 wrote:
Who's buying a 2010 bike? I might be getting a KTM 150sx. But I saw the post on Motonews and it looks like a lot of...
Who's buying a 2010 bike? I might be getting a KTM 150sx. But I saw the post on Motonews and it looks like a lot of people are forgoing it. Obviously the economy is bad. But, maybe along with that, KTM is also picking up share? Just my thoughts. What if? Proof that expensive bikes aren't the fad anymore? Guess time will tell. But seems that Yamaha and KTM are gonna be the only one's with good sales if people start going to the "cheaper" version. Hopefully Yamaha will make enough for demand this year. Again, talking 250f compared to 250 2 stroke.
People like myself that tend to buy quite a few bikes have written off the four strokes. I've bought two 250F's and had to rebuild both of them from major meltdowns. So with that in mind, they've lost me as a customer. My kids already don't care for them either. So that is two more lost customers. Maybe it's because they can't afford them, maybe it's because I refuse to buy anymore. They both get their kicks on a variety of different small bore smokers. Four stroke motocross bikes might become extinct as well when so few people purchase them. MX has been known for being somewhat of an affordable form of motorsports. That's gotten a little out of hand over the last ten years and people are wanting something less expensive. Killing off the 125 class was the worst thing the Mfg's. and the AMA could have done. I'm still waiting for someone to go to prison for that crime against humanity. That class needs to thrive again. It's been an absolute major component of the US motocross scene since the early 70's when racing here really took off.
Lightning78
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Lightning78 10/12/2009 8:58pm
10/12/2009 8:58pm
I for one would be "super pumped" to see the all mighty two stroke come back. While I've mentioned before I was lucky enouigh to never have had a major meltdown I just don't like ridin the 4 and my riding stlye doesn't suit them very well. I know I can go faster on a 4 stroke with less work but they've taken the thrill and fun out of riding MX .....it's really an unsatisfying ride almost makes things dull not as exciting for me. I know there is an overwhelming majority that still prefer the 4 stroke (just not as many as there were 3 years ago) and that's perfectly fine I don't think any of the MFG's should abandon them just give us a choice.

Looks to me that KTM and TM have their fingers on ther pulse of the MX coimmunity going forward .....if the Big 4 don't at least entertain the idea and bring some of the two strokes back IMO they may be finding themselves on the other side of the fence.

After giving the new RM a once over I plan to take it out this week if not by Sunday for sure I can't wait!

The Shop

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Othreehundred 10/12/2009 9:03pm
10/12/2009 9:03pm
Othreehundred wrote:
I have a 2010 KTM 450sxf I got about a month ago. Great bike ive had every brand 450 since 07 and the ktm is by...
I have a 2010 KTM 450sxf I got about a month ago. Great bike ive had every brand 450 since 07 and the ktm is by far my favorite. The 350 sounds like a awesome bike and does not suprise me KTM is making it. The 150 is a great bike I have 2 buddies that have them one races the pro class againts 250's and 450's locally and does real well on it . Even if 350cc's take over I hope they dont stop making 450 cc bikes. I rode 500's for 12 years then the 400 yz came out in 99' then shortly after that no open class and it was 450's. Now I feel like a siberian tiger (endagered) that ill have to ride a 350 sxf or get a off road model. I sure hope ktm still makes the 450 sxf models and they can keep linkage but I wont complain if they have to use it. I know tons of guys on the list for the 2010 yz450 and others buying there loyal brand 250 or 450 2010 models. I talk to guys and see alot keeping there 08 or 09 models because of the econmoy but for the most part it seems the same to me people are buying 2010 still.
ProMed wrote:
"ive had every brand 450 since 07"
Really?
07 yami 450
08 crf 450
08 ktm 505
08.5 rmz 450
09 kxf 450
10' ktm 450

Ya pretty much all of them.
Ktm out turns, out motors and fit and finish and better than all of them. SXS factory brakes stock, heavy duty everything.. There solid bikes and once the susp is tuned by a good ktm susp guy you really cant go wrong. This is my 6th ktm since 04 and I like the 10' 450 the best of all my thumpers.
twizzler
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twizzler 10/12/2009 10:26pm
10/12/2009 10:26pm
I'm having fun riding my 07' YZ250 that I paid $3500 for barely used. No plans to buy a new 10' bike of any kind.
andymoto
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andymoto 10/13/2009 1:30am
10/13/2009 1:30am
newmann wrote:
People like myself that tend to buy quite a few bikes have written off the four strokes. I've bought two 250F's and had to rebuild both...
People like myself that tend to buy quite a few bikes have written off the four strokes. I've bought two 250F's and had to rebuild both of them from major meltdowns. So with that in mind, they've lost me as a customer. My kids already don't care for them either. So that is two more lost customers. Maybe it's because they can't afford them, maybe it's because I refuse to buy anymore. They both get their kicks on a variety of different small bore smokers. Four stroke motocross bikes might become extinct as well when so few people purchase them. MX has been known for being somewhat of an affordable form of motorsports. That's gotten a little out of hand over the last ten years and people are wanting something less expensive. Killing off the 125 class was the worst thing the Mfg's. and the AMA could have done. I'm still waiting for someone to go to prison for that crime against humanity. That class needs to thrive again. It's been an absolute major component of the US motocross scene since the early 70's when racing here really took off.
MX has been known for being somewhat of an affordable form of motorsports

For a competitive racing motorsport, yes, I agree for a motorsport, MX was prob the most affordable motorsport for quite a longtime. Dad and son could both race and ride regularly. Not the case anymore.

The 125 should've never been eliminated. A light weight bike that a 80 or 85 rider could much more easily transfer to and not be as intimidated like some that are on a 250F.

Be nice to have the 125 return for those kids that maybe intimidated by the 250Fs coming off of 85s..

Would add a stepping stone again and the transformation to a 250F wouldn't be so dramatic. Keeps 'em riding, buying if not so much parts, then accessories; just adds another rider to the colony.

But that's too logical. I'm just glad to have seen all the technological changes just the 2 strokers made from my '73 Pursang(first new MX bike) to my last '95 YZ 250 before hitting the trail.

And all the huge local turnouts that were like local Nationals that are now a mere pittance of what was once a thriving sport.

I can buy into the theory of the four stroke being massed produced due to the money from parts and service to be made since not everyone is not mechanically inclined; kinda reminds me of how greedy things have become in our world. JMO.


ProMed
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ProMed 10/13/2009 6:49am
10/13/2009 6:49am
Othreehundred wrote:
I have a 2010 KTM 450sxf I got about a month ago. Great bike ive had every brand 450 since 07 and the ktm is by...
I have a 2010 KTM 450sxf I got about a month ago. Great bike ive had every brand 450 since 07 and the ktm is by far my favorite. The 350 sounds like a awesome bike and does not suprise me KTM is making it. The 150 is a great bike I have 2 buddies that have them one races the pro class againts 250's and 450's locally and does real well on it . Even if 350cc's take over I hope they dont stop making 450 cc bikes. I rode 500's for 12 years then the 400 yz came out in 99' then shortly after that no open class and it was 450's. Now I feel like a siberian tiger (endagered) that ill have to ride a 350 sxf or get a off road model. I sure hope ktm still makes the 450 sxf models and they can keep linkage but I wont complain if they have to use it. I know tons of guys on the list for the 2010 yz450 and others buying there loyal brand 250 or 450 2010 models. I talk to guys and see alot keeping there 08 or 09 models because of the econmoy but for the most part it seems the same to me people are buying 2010 still.
ProMed wrote:
"ive had every brand 450 since 07"
Really?
Othreehundred wrote:
07 yami 450 08 crf 450 08 ktm 505 08.5 rmz 450 09 kxf 450 10' ktm 450 Ya pretty much all of them. Ktm out...
07 yami 450
08 crf 450
08 ktm 505
08.5 rmz 450
09 kxf 450
10' ktm 450

Ya pretty much all of them.
Ktm out turns, out motors and fit and finish and better than all of them. SXS factory brakes stock, heavy duty everything.. There solid bikes and once the susp is tuned by a good ktm susp guy you really cant go wrong. This is my 6th ktm since 04 and I like the 10' 450 the best of all my thumpers.
Since the 2010 is your 6th KTM since 04, can you fill in the rest for us?

04 KTM
KTM
KTM
KTM
07 yami 450
08 crf 450
08 ktm 505
08.5 rmz 450
09 kxf 450
10' ktm 450
miedosoracing1 10/13/2009 7:04am
10/13/2009 7:04am
ProMed wrote:
"ive had every brand 450 since 07"
Really?
Othreehundred wrote:
07 yami 450 08 crf 450 08 ktm 505 08.5 rmz 450 09 kxf 450 10' ktm 450 Ya pretty much all of them. Ktm out...
07 yami 450
08 crf 450
08 ktm 505
08.5 rmz 450
09 kxf 450
10' ktm 450

Ya pretty much all of them.
Ktm out turns, out motors and fit and finish and better than all of them. SXS factory brakes stock, heavy duty everything.. There solid bikes and once the susp is tuned by a good ktm susp guy you really cant go wrong. This is my 6th ktm since 04 and I like the 10' 450 the best of all my thumpers.
ProMed wrote:
Since the 2010 is your 6th KTM since 04, can you fill in the rest for us? 04 KTM KTM KTM KTM 07 yami 450 08...
Since the 2010 is your 6th KTM since 04, can you fill in the rest for us?

04 KTM
KTM
KTM
KTM
07 yami 450
08 crf 450
08 ktm 505
08.5 rmz 450
09 kxf 450
10' ktm 450
ProMed, not sure where you are going with this, but I've had every 250 in the last 6 months. Of course I buy and sell them, but even when I wasn't, I use to go through a different bike about every 2-4 months. I'd ride, go broke, sell, get enough to support my drug (meaning motocross) habit and buy again. so it isn't crazy for someone to have a lot of different bikes???
R-acer
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R-acer 10/13/2009 7:15am
10/13/2009 7:15am
miedosoracing1 wrote:
Who's buying a 2010 bike? I might be getting a KTM 150sx. But I saw the post on Motonews and it looks like a lot of...
Who's buying a 2010 bike? I might be getting a KTM 150sx. But I saw the post on Motonews and it looks like a lot of people are forgoing it. Obviously the economy is bad. But, maybe along with that, KTM is also picking up share? Just my thoughts. What if? Proof that expensive bikes aren't the fad anymore? Guess time will tell. But seems that Yamaha and KTM are gonna be the only one's with good sales if people start going to the "cheaper" version. Hopefully Yamaha will make enough for demand this year. Again, talking 250f compared to 250 2 stroke.
cant wait
Othreehundred 10/13/2009 8:22am
10/13/2009 8:22am
ProMed wrote:
Since the 2010 is your 6th KTM since 04, can you fill in the rest for us? 04 KTM KTM KTM KTM 07 yami 450 08...
Since the 2010 is your 6th KTM since 04, can you fill in the rest for us?

04 KTM
KTM
KTM
KTM
07 yami 450
08 crf 450
08 ktm 505
08.5 rmz 450
09 kxf 450
10' ktm 450
Are you serious? Will I get a bowl of soup or something for this lol?
well lets see since 04 ive had
04 ktm 450
04 ktm 525
04 crf 450
05 rmz 450
05 yz 250
06 got a 2000 ktm 380 sx
06 ktm 450sxf
07 yami 450
08 crf 450
08 ktm 505
08.5 rmz 450
09 kxf 450
10' ktm 450
I can list my other 20 + bikes since the 80's if you
bvm111
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bvm111 10/13/2009 8:32am
10/13/2009 8:32am
After taking the wife to her first Supercross, the us open, last weekend.... I finally made some headway on getting a new motorcycle with her.... I am leaning heavy to a 2010 KTM 250SX.... not sure if that will happen but It was the first time she didnt say NO!!!

but that reminds me of that old T-shirt.... "she said if I go riding 1 more time she is going to leave me....I sure am going to miss her!!!" Thats paraphrased ofcourse... but you know what i mean!!
TeamGrnRacer99 10/13/2009 8:48am
10/13/2009 8:48am
lets see i have 8 deposits on 2010 YZ450's 2 on 2010 YZ125's first 3 CRF250's are sold and the first 2010 KX450 lasted a day. (But that was mine) i also have the first 3 injected RMZ250's sold as well. i think the 2010's will sell just fineWink
Dsigner
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Dsigner 10/13/2009 9:49am
10/13/2009 9:49am
TeamGrnRacer99 wrote:
lets see i have 8 deposits on 2010 YZ450's 2 on 2010 YZ125's first 3 CRF250's are sold and the first 2010 KX450 lasted a day...
lets see i have 8 deposits on 2010 YZ450's 2 on 2010 YZ125's first 3 CRF250's are sold and the first 2010 KX450 lasted a day. (But that was mine) i also have the first 3 injected RMZ250's sold as well. i think the 2010's will sell just fineWink
When will you be getting those 2010 RMZ250's?
race
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race 10/13/2009 10:01am
10/13/2009 10:01am
Let's not lynch them all together as the Big Four.

Remember ... Yamaha never stopped making and selling the YZ250. And most feel it's still the best 250 smoker out there.





TeamGreen
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TeamGreen 10/13/2009 10:06am
10/13/2009 10:06am
Well...

With SOoooooo many Smokers in here...

Isn't it about time you guys, in SoCal-especially!, got together with a few promoters and put some REAL effort into a serious 2-Stroke class at the local races?

I'm jus' sayin'...
TerryB
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TerryB 10/13/2009 10:18am
10/13/2009 10:18am
Separate 2-stroke classes are not the answer. We have vintage racing for that, and there are already too many classes.

Just give us straight up cc for cc racing.
miedosoracing1 10/13/2009 10:30am
10/13/2009 10:30am
TeamGrnRacer99 wrote:
lets see i have 8 deposits on 2010 YZ450's 2 on 2010 YZ125's first 3 CRF250's are sold and the first 2010 KX450 lasted a day...
lets see i have 8 deposits on 2010 YZ450's 2 on 2010 YZ125's first 3 CRF250's are sold and the first 2010 KX450 lasted a day. (But that was mine) i also have the first 3 injected RMZ250's sold as well. i think the 2010's will sell just fineWink
So, pretty much what I said. 250f's are not selling any better than a 125 2 stroke, and not sure about the 250 2 strokes, none listed, but would guess a yz250 would sell better than a yz125? . But the 450f sells still. That is what I have been saying. Yes?

Pit Row

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miedosoracing1 10/13/2009 10:32am
10/13/2009 10:32am
You know, I've been promoting KTM's pretty well, and for never owning one, maybe they should give me a call to test some out. LOL :-)
TeamGrnRacer99 10/13/2009 10:34am
10/13/2009 10:34am
TeamGrnRacer99 wrote:
lets see i have 8 deposits on 2010 YZ450's 2 on 2010 YZ125's first 3 CRF250's are sold and the first 2010 KX450 lasted a day...
lets see i have 8 deposits on 2010 YZ450's 2 on 2010 YZ125's first 3 CRF250's are sold and the first 2010 KX450 lasted a day. (But that was mine) i also have the first 3 injected RMZ250's sold as well. i think the 2010's will sell just fineWink
Dsigner wrote:
When will you be getting those 2010 RMZ250's?
not till after January, Suzuki has so many dealers with non current product they are trying to help them get rid of it by holding back the 2010's meanwhile it screws dealers like us who need the 2010 stuff !!!!
miedosoracing1 10/13/2009 10:42am
10/13/2009 10:42am
So what you are saying, is that you are a rarity, not the norm. Hmmmm, trying to sell us on goods that are no good. LOL
SPYGUY
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SPYGUY 10/13/2009 10:45am
10/13/2009 10:45am
TeamGrnRacer99 wrote:
lets see i have 8 deposits on 2010 YZ450's 2 on 2010 YZ125's first 3 CRF250's are sold and the first 2010 KX450 lasted a day...
lets see i have 8 deposits on 2010 YZ450's 2 on 2010 YZ125's first 3 CRF250's are sold and the first 2010 KX450 lasted a day. (But that was mine) i also have the first 3 injected RMZ250's sold as well. i think the 2010's will sell just fineWink
miedosoracing1 wrote:
So, pretty much what I said. 250f's are not selling any better than a 125 2 stroke, and not sure about the 250 2 strokes, none...
So, pretty much what I said. 250f's are not selling any better than a 125 2 stroke, and not sure about the 250 2 strokes, none listed, but would guess a yz250 would sell better than a yz125? . But the 450f sells still. That is what I have been saying. Yes?
He has 6 deposits on 250F's and only 2 deposits on YZ125's, and you claim that the demand is the same.

Why does this not surprise me, coming from you? It's already obvious that logic isn't your strong suit, but apparently math isn't either.

Honestly, you'd come across a lot better if you learned to post less.
miedosoracing1 10/13/2009 10:49am
10/13/2009 10:49am Edited Date/Time 10/13/2009 11:09am
TeamGrnRacer99 wrote:
lets see i have 8 deposits on 2010 YZ450's 2 on 2010 YZ125's first 3 CRF250's are sold and the first 2010 KX450 lasted a day...
lets see i have 8 deposits on 2010 YZ450's 2 on 2010 YZ125's first 3 CRF250's are sold and the first 2010 KX450 lasted a day. (But that was mine) i also have the first 3 injected RMZ250's sold as well. i think the 2010's will sell just fineWink
miedosoracing1 wrote:
So, pretty much what I said. 250f's are not selling any better than a 125 2 stroke, and not sure about the 250 2 strokes, none...
So, pretty much what I said. 250f's are not selling any better than a 125 2 stroke, and not sure about the 250 2 strokes, none listed, but would guess a yz250 would sell better than a yz125? . But the 450f sells still. That is what I have been saying. Yes?
SPYGUY wrote:
He has 6 deposits on 250F's and only 2 deposits on YZ125's, and you claim that the demand is the same. Why does this not surprise...
He has 6 deposits on 250F's and only 2 deposits on YZ125's, and you claim that the demand is the same.

Why does this not surprise me, coming from you? It's already obvious that logic isn't your strong suit, but apparently math isn't either.

Honestly, you'd come across a lot better if you learned to post less.
per manufacturer. I mean if we wanna include all 250f's sold compared to 250 2 strokes by KTM then I guess... OK. Whatever? What about the question... How many YZ250F's sold in 09 compared to the 2 strokes???
TeamGrnRacer99 10/13/2009 10:52am
10/13/2009 10:52am Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 2:43am
TeamGrnRacer99 wrote:
lets see i have 8 deposits on 2010 YZ450's 2 on 2010 YZ125's first 3 CRF250's are sold and the first 2010 KX450 lasted a day...
lets see i have 8 deposits on 2010 YZ450's 2 on 2010 YZ125's first 3 CRF250's are sold and the first 2010 KX450 lasted a day. (But that was mine) i also have the first 3 injected RMZ250's sold as well. i think the 2010's will sell just fineWink
miedosoracing1 wrote:
So, pretty much what I said. 250f's are not selling any better than a 125 2 stroke, and not sure about the 250 2 strokes, none...
So, pretty much what I said. 250f's are not selling any better than a 125 2 stroke, and not sure about the 250 2 strokes, none listed, but would guess a yz250 would sell better than a yz125? . But the 450f sells still. That is what I have been saying. Yes?
i guess i sell more 450's?? but if i could have gotten more KX250F's i might have sold more 250F's?? here's my rundown to date

125's- 5
250 Smokers- 5 could have sold 10 more but couldn't get them
250F's- 39
450's- 46

the shop may have sold a few more of each. i do 90% of the offroad stuff but sometimes the other guys sell one here or there.

i have Kawi's Yamadawgs, Honda's and Zooks. No Orange
miedosoracing1 10/13/2009 11:00am
10/13/2009 11:00am Edited Date/Time 10/13/2009 11:07am
Thats some good info. Now, here's a legit question. Since we all know buyers many times only buy certain brands. Don't you think that the 2 strokes would have faired ok, if there were some of every brand\??? How many Yamaha 4 strokes of each sold?? That would maybe tell more info.
Lightning78
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Lightning78 10/13/2009 11:47am
10/13/2009 11:47am
race wrote:
Let's not lynch them all together as the Big Four. Remember ... Yamaha never stopped making and selling the YZ250. And most feel it's still the...
Let's not lynch them all together as the Big Four.

Remember ... Yamaha never stopped making and selling the YZ250. And most feel it's still the best 250 smoker out there.





No ....that spot is reserved for the last generation RM250 Wink
Torco1
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Torco1 10/13/2009 11:50am
10/13/2009 11:50am
I think it all comes down to the fact that the manufacturers gave up on the 2-strokes waaaaay to prematurely without taking the time to actually do some solid market research. Sure, everybody was in love with the 4-strokes for the first couple of years after being introduced into the market, but had they given it a few years to see how it would pan out they would see that there would've been a good market for both the 2-strokes and 4-strokes, then everybody wins.
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catatonic 10/13/2009 12:24pm
10/13/2009 12:24pm
miedosoracing1 wrote:
Who's buying a 2010 bike? I might be getting a KTM 150sx. But I saw the post on Motonews and it looks like a lot of...
Who's buying a 2010 bike? I might be getting a KTM 150sx. But I saw the post on Motonews and it looks like a lot of people are forgoing it. Obviously the economy is bad. But, maybe along with that, KTM is also picking up share? Just my thoughts. What if? Proof that expensive bikes aren't the fad anymore? Guess time will tell. But seems that Yamaha and KTM are gonna be the only one's with good sales if people start going to the "cheaper" version. Hopefully Yamaha will make enough for demand this year. Again, talking 250f compared to 250 2 stroke.
R-acer wrote:
cant wait
Liking four strokes over two strokes is one thing, but why hate on the two strokes?????
Is it because your a poser that cant ride one????
catatonic
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catatonic 10/13/2009 12:28pm
10/13/2009 12:28pm
Void Main wrote:
KTM shops are closing up around my part of the country. It's not because of the quality of the bike or that people don't want them...
KTM shops are closing up around my part of the country. It's not because of the quality of the bike or that people don't want them because they are awesome bikes and we have a bazillion of them in our club. From what I hear it's more to do with the requirements KTM puts on the dealers in order to be a KTM dealer, the dealers just aren't finding it worth it. I could be wrong as I have no insider knowledge. Seems like shopping for KTMs on the Internet is the way to go now. Feel free to set the record straight if I got bad hearsay info.
My buddy is a KTM dealer........He threatened to drop them this year and they finally loosened the leash and let him order the bikes he could sell.
Getting hammered with $3000 minis and $5000 65's can kill your business quick.
Torco1
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Torco1 10/13/2009 12:44pm
10/13/2009 12:44pm
miedosoracing1 wrote:
Who's buying a 2010 bike? I might be getting a KTM 150sx. But I saw the post on Motonews and it looks like a lot of...
Who's buying a 2010 bike? I might be getting a KTM 150sx. But I saw the post on Motonews and it looks like a lot of people are forgoing it. Obviously the economy is bad. But, maybe along with that, KTM is also picking up share? Just my thoughts. What if? Proof that expensive bikes aren't the fad anymore? Guess time will tell. But seems that Yamaha and KTM are gonna be the only one's with good sales if people start going to the "cheaper" version. Hopefully Yamaha will make enough for demand this year. Again, talking 250f compared to 250 2 stroke.
R-acer wrote:
cant wait
catatonic wrote:
Liking four strokes over two strokes is one thing, but why hate on the two strokes?????
Is it because your a poser that cant ride one????
Exactly, I ride a 2-stroke and hopefully always will. I dont have anything bad at all to say about 4-strokes......they're great bikes, I just prefer a 2-stroke. It seems like all these people bashing 2-strokes are either pissed that they spent so much money on a bike that isnt much better if at all better than a 2-stroke, then they start to realize how much it cost to maintain it. Then they really get pissed when they are out at the track and a 2-stroke rider comes blowing by them. I guess the only way to make themselves feel better is to bash the 2-stroke.

Post a reply to: So, when KTM sales don't fall, and all the big 4's do????