UKRAINE

tuggy450
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1389
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Location
Massapequa, NY US
2/21/2023 10:37pm

From JFK speech from 

American University Commencement Address

delivered 10 June 1963, Washington, D.C  https://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/jfkamericanuniversityaddress…

 

" And above all, while defending our own vital interests, nuclear powers must avert those confrontations which bring an adversary to a choice of either a humiliating retreat or a nuclear war. To adopt that kind of course in the nuclear age would be evidence only of the bankruptcy of our policy -- or of a collective death-wish for the world."

JFK could really deliver a speech.

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eddie
Posts
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Bragg Creek, AB CA
2/22/2023 1:38am
SEEMEFIRST wrote:
I don't know.  Seems like if Putin takes Ukraine, his next stop will be Poland. I'd hate to have to make these decisions. Send them aide...

I don't know. 

Seems like if Putin takes Ukraine, his next stop will be Poland.

I'd hate to have to make these decisions. Send them aide, or wait for the inevitable Poland attack and send men.

I don't know. 

colintrax wrote:
Moldova was/is the next stop. But yeah, Ukraine or even the eastern part of Ukraine isn't Putin's end goal. The Ukrainians and volunteers are doing the...

Moldova was/is the next stop. But yeah, Ukraine or even the eastern part of Ukraine isn't Putin's end goal.

The Ukrainians and volunteers are doing the world a huge favor right now.

Agreed . Russia is trying to destabilize Moldova as we speak . 
 

Putin didn’t stop when he took Crimea . Why would Ukraine be any different . 

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1

The Shop

M1000
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562
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Location
CA
2/23/2023 9:08am Edited Date/Time 2/23/2023 9:17am

China Says Ready To "Join Forces With Russia" To "Defend National Interests" As Putin Confirms Xi Visit

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/china-says-ready-join-forces-rus…

 

Exactly. China, Russia vs NATO, UN. Ww3. Use Ukraine as battlefield. Ukrainians will be slaughtered. Velensky will profiteer and move to southern Florida. Trump administration had zero wars, peace talks with North Korea. Now this Biden administration complete joke on America. The Neo-Cons (warmongers) have hijacked America.
https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/world-news/war/is-the-biden-administ…

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12
TeamGreen
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2/23/2023 10:20am
swordfish wrote:
Well unfortunately the US and the West killed the early hopes of an agreement because it did not work for their interests. That whole story is...

Well unfortunately the US and the West killed the early hopes of an agreement because it did not work for their interests. That whole story is being suppressed and spun in the media as well. Putin and Zelenskyy both were willing to make some serious compromises. That ship has sailed I’m afraid and there is no way in hell Russia is gonna lose this fight no matter what the talking heads try to tell you. Everyone is dreaming if they think some Western tanks are gonna win the war for the Ukraine. It’s a sheer numbers equation. 
It’s time for peace. 

ToolMaker wrote:
"Well unfortunately the US and the West killed the early hopes of an agreement because it did not work for their interests" I think you mean...

"Well unfortunately the US and the West killed the early hopes of an agreement because it did not work for their interests"

I think you mean something other than what I mean when I read this because what I think to myself is that it would have been so easy to take out the convoy when it was stuck and that would have ended it. But no, we can't send offensive weapons it'll be WWIII, well what the fuck are we doing now and in a much bigger problem and escalation. Said this very early. it's easier to stop it now (back then) while the problem is small. What did they do? Sit on their hands. So you just have to wonder who actually wants this war and how are they making money from it. The how they're making money from it is easy. Nobody can keep track of where the money is going, so they're all making money. They have a financial interest in keeping the war going. And that's sad! People are dying so others can make money. I'm done ranting for now.

Getting real Dr. Strangelove in here. 

How so? Is that not a valid consideration in-light of how we send them “too little, too late”?
Why no Polish F16s or MiGs? Why all the half-measures? 

1
2/23/2023 7:36pm
ToolMaker wrote:
"Well unfortunately the US and the West killed the early hopes of an agreement because it did not work for their interests" I think you mean...

"Well unfortunately the US and the West killed the early hopes of an agreement because it did not work for their interests"

I think you mean something other than what I mean when I read this because what I think to myself is that it would have been so easy to take out the convoy when it was stuck and that would have ended it. But no, we can't send offensive weapons it'll be WWIII, well what the fuck are we doing now and in a much bigger problem and escalation. Said this very early. it's easier to stop it now (back then) while the problem is small. What did they do? Sit on their hands. So you just have to wonder who actually wants this war and how are they making money from it. The how they're making money from it is easy. Nobody can keep track of where the money is going, so they're all making money. They have a financial interest in keeping the war going. And that's sad! People are dying so others can make money. I'm done ranting for now.

Getting real Dr. Strangelove in here. 

TeamGreen wrote:
How so? Is that not a valid consideration in-light of how we send them “too little, too late”? Why no Polish F16s or MiGs? Why all...

How so? Is that not a valid consideration in-light of how we send them “too little, too late”?
Why no Polish F16s or MiGs? Why all the half-measures? 

Escalation of war by a display of overwhelming firepower. “Enough” even when the problem was smaller was still more than any of us realize. It may be frustrating to watch knowing our capabilities could shine in this war, but involvement more than we’re doing now (or then) would create a bigger problem for more people. 
 

 

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2
Joey Bridges
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Kingston, TN US
2/24/2023 4:09am

"As long as it takes"

Meaning, as long as our politicians on both sides of the aisle,  and Pentagon subcontractors, rake in a healthy share of the profits.

img 1 1677239129573

 Anyone thinking that zelinsky isn't anything more than another corrupt autocrat, is a fool.

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2/24/2023 10:10am

"Destroyed Russian tank now enhances view from Russian embassy in Rīga"

https://eng.lsm.lv/article/culture/art/destroyed-russian-tank-now-enhances-view-from-russian-embassy-in-riga.a497983/

"Russian tank destroyed in Ukraine is put on display outside Russian embassy in Germany"

https://www.foxnews.com/world/russian-tank-destroyed-ukraine-displayes-outside-russian-embassy-berlin-germany

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TeamGreen
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Thru-out, CA US
2/24/2023 12:55pm

Getting real Dr. Strangelove in here. 

TeamGreen wrote:
How so? Is that not a valid consideration in-light of how we send them “too little, too late”? Why no Polish F16s or MiGs? Why all...

How so? Is that not a valid consideration in-light of how we send them “too little, too late”?
Why no Polish F16s or MiGs? Why all the half-measures? 

Escalation of war by a display of overwhelming firepower. “Enough” even when the problem was smaller was still more than any of us realize. It may...

Escalation of war by a display of overwhelming firepower. “Enough” even when the problem was smaller was still more than any of us realize. It may be frustrating to watch knowing our capabilities could shine in this war, but involvement more than we’re doing now (or then) would create a bigger problem for more people. 
 

 

Hey there, kiddo...

Over the last year...well...why don't you take a stab at all the weapons-systems that Vlad has used on Ukrainian Civilians -before- you throw out an answer like that.

Hyper-sonic missile systems. Bombs form bombers and drones, alike. Cruise missiles. Sea based missiles (Sea to Land). Massive artillery strikes. Massive tank attacks. Attacks AGAINST A NUCLEAR ENERGY FACILITY. Etc., etc., etc.

Do you care to get into the raping and pillaging of the Ukrainian people?

Again... I mention ALL of those resources were used against THE CIVILIAN POPULATION OF THE UKRAINE.

This is a RE-INVASION of The Ukraine and...it seems to me...giving the INVADED COUNTRY some systems to DEFEND their HOMELAND against said INVADERS is what's being discussed.

I'm jus' sayin;'...

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1
philG
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Location
GB
2/24/2023 4:00pm

Is anyone not even the slightest bit curious at to why there are zero journalists on the ground in Ukraine.

We are a year in and its been crickets, apart from puff peices and propaganda. 

Surely wouldnt proper footage help convince people that spending money we dont have to save these people is worthwhile. 

Or is it another one of those ' well we dont  want to show you, but its really like that ' moments. 

3
12
lappedrider
Posts
1534
Joined
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Location
Tooele, UT US
2/24/2023 4:06pm
philG wrote:
Is anyone not even the slightest bit curious at to why there are zero journalists on the ground in Ukraine. We are a year in and...

Is anyone not even the slightest bit curious at to why there are zero journalists on the ground in Ukraine.

We are a year in and its been crickets, apart from puff peices and propaganda. 

Surely wouldnt proper footage help convince people that spending money we dont have to save these people is worthwhile. 

Or is it another one of those ' well we dont  want to show you, but its really like that ' moments. 

What are you talking about? I see on the ground footage and reporting daily.  You need to stop looking for conspiracies dude.  

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3
2/24/2023 8:17pm
TeamGreen wrote:
How so? Is that not a valid consideration in-light of how we send them “too little, too late”? Why no Polish F16s or MiGs? Why all...

How so? Is that not a valid consideration in-light of how we send them “too little, too late”?
Why no Polish F16s or MiGs? Why all the half-measures? 

Escalation of war by a display of overwhelming firepower. “Enough” even when the problem was smaller was still more than any of us realize. It may...

Escalation of war by a display of overwhelming firepower. “Enough” even when the problem was smaller was still more than any of us realize. It may be frustrating to watch knowing our capabilities could shine in this war, but involvement more than we’re doing now (or then) would create a bigger problem for more people. 
 

 

TeamGreen wrote:
Hey there, kiddo... Over the last year...well...why don't you take a stab at all the weapons-systems that Vlad has used on Ukrainian Civilians -before- you throw...

Hey there, kiddo...

Over the last year...well...why don't you take a stab at all the weapons-systems that Vlad has used on Ukrainian Civilians -before- you throw out an answer like that.

Hyper-sonic missile systems. Bombs form bombers and drones, alike. Cruise missiles. Sea based missiles (Sea to Land). Massive artillery strikes. Massive tank attacks. Attacks AGAINST A NUCLEAR ENERGY FACILITY. Etc., etc., etc.

Do you care to get into the raping and pillaging of the Ukrainian people?

Again... I mention ALL of those resources were used against THE CIVILIAN POPULATION OF THE UKRAINE.

This is a RE-INVASION of The Ukraine and...it seems to me...giving the INVADED COUNTRY some systems to DEFEND their HOMELAND against said INVADERS is what's being discussed.

I'm jus' sayin;'...

You’ve got too much emotional investment in this war to have a meaningful discussion with, for whatever reason. If you have actual points to discuss, I’d be happy to do that with you. 
 

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9
IanMac138
Posts
400
Joined
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Location
West Linn, OR US
2/24/2023 8:35pm
philG wrote:
Is anyone not even the slightest bit curious at to why there are zero journalists on the ground in Ukraine. We are a year in and...

Is anyone not even the slightest bit curious at to why there are zero journalists on the ground in Ukraine.

We are a year in and its been crickets, apart from puff peices and propaganda. 

Surely wouldnt proper footage help convince people that spending money we dont have to save these people is worthwhile. 

Or is it another one of those ' well we dont  want to show you, but its really like that ' moments. 

ZERO  journalists on the ground? What f'ing wormhole are you living in? 

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2
IanMac138
Posts
400
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Location
West Linn, OR US
2/24/2023 8:53pm
TeamGreen wrote:
Hey there, kiddo... Over the last year...well...why don't you take a stab at all the weapons-systems that Vlad has used on Ukrainian Civilians -before- you throw...

Hey there, kiddo...

Over the last year...well...why don't you take a stab at all the weapons-systems that Vlad has used on Ukrainian Civilians -before- you throw out an answer like that.

Hyper-sonic missile systems. Bombs form bombers and drones, alike. Cruise missiles. Sea based missiles (Sea to Land). Massive artillery strikes. Massive tank attacks. Attacks AGAINST A NUCLEAR ENERGY FACILITY. Etc., etc., etc.

Do you care to get into the raping and pillaging of the Ukrainian people?

Again... I mention ALL of those resources were used against THE CIVILIAN POPULATION OF THE UKRAINE.

This is a RE-INVASION of The Ukraine and...it seems to me...giving the INVADED COUNTRY some systems to DEFEND their HOMELAND against said INVADERS is what's being discussed.

I'm jus' sayin;'...

THIS. It's still unfathomable to me how ignorant of historical context, Vlad's stated goals for the past 30 years, and complete denial of reality are to some of you. It's astonishing. 
Like TeamGreen said, Russia has been throwing rockets, missiles and everything in its arsenal not only at the Ukranian army, but mostly civilians. Schools, churches, hospitals, electrical and water plants, and random apartment blocks. Raping and mass murder of civilians has and is already being documented by the U.N. Human Rights watchdog...nearly 65,000 war crimes already logged in one year. 
But no, sit behind your keyboard with high speed internet, in your warm and cozy residence and do the work of Russia's propoganda machine, spouting conspiracy bullshit with no threat of you or your families life being extenguished in a split second for no reason other than another fanatical authoritarian blaming the whole world on Nazis...or wait, now it's NATO, oh wait, now it's the United States, oh wait, now it's  because Putin is a sociopath who has literally telegraphed his intentions to destroy democracy and reclaim half of Europe for over 30 years. He's cut from the same cloth as Hitler, but fortunately he's not nearly as intelligent nor surrounded himself with competent military leaders. But keep doing his bidding for him. 

Ukraine never asked for this war, nor did their innocent civilians.  This was Putin's choice, and he's the one who has to pay.  We show signs of weakness now, he will never stop at Ukraine. 

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4
SEEMEFIRST
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Location
Arlington, TX US
2/24/2023 11:28pm

I've been saying all along,  go bolster Poland's border because that's where Putins eyes are. 

I would love to hear why I might be wrong about this. 

1
ns503
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Location
NS Toolies CA
2/25/2023 7:10am
Escalation of war by a display of overwhelming firepower. “Enough” even when the problem was smaller was still more than any of us realize. It may...

Escalation of war by a display of overwhelming firepower. “Enough” even when the problem was smaller was still more than any of us realize. It may be frustrating to watch knowing our capabilities could shine in this war, but involvement more than we’re doing now (or then) would create a bigger problem for more people. 
 

 

TeamGreen wrote:
Hey there, kiddo... Over the last year...well...why don't you take a stab at all the weapons-systems that Vlad has used on Ukrainian Civilians -before- you throw...

Hey there, kiddo...

Over the last year...well...why don't you take a stab at all the weapons-systems that Vlad has used on Ukrainian Civilians -before- you throw out an answer like that.

Hyper-sonic missile systems. Bombs form bombers and drones, alike. Cruise missiles. Sea based missiles (Sea to Land). Massive artillery strikes. Massive tank attacks. Attacks AGAINST A NUCLEAR ENERGY FACILITY. Etc., etc., etc.

Do you care to get into the raping and pillaging of the Ukrainian people?

Again... I mention ALL of those resources were used against THE CIVILIAN POPULATION OF THE UKRAINE.

This is a RE-INVASION of The Ukraine and...it seems to me...giving the INVADED COUNTRY some systems to DEFEND their HOMELAND against said INVADERS is what's being discussed.

I'm jus' sayin;'...

You’ve got too much emotional investment in this war to have a meaningful discussion with, for whatever reason. If you have actual points to discuss, I’d...

You’ve got too much emotional investment in this war to have a meaningful discussion with, for whatever reason. If you have actual points to discuss, I’d be happy to do that with you. 
 

They sounded like actual points to me. How aren't they?

2
2/25/2023 7:58am
TeamGreen wrote:
Hey there, kiddo... Over the last year...well...why don't you take a stab at all the weapons-systems that Vlad has used on Ukrainian Civilians -before- you throw...

Hey there, kiddo...

Over the last year...well...why don't you take a stab at all the weapons-systems that Vlad has used on Ukrainian Civilians -before- you throw out an answer like that.

Hyper-sonic missile systems. Bombs form bombers and drones, alike. Cruise missiles. Sea based missiles (Sea to Land). Massive artillery strikes. Massive tank attacks. Attacks AGAINST A NUCLEAR ENERGY FACILITY. Etc., etc., etc.

Do you care to get into the raping and pillaging of the Ukrainian people?

Again... I mention ALL of those resources were used against THE CIVILIAN POPULATION OF THE UKRAINE.

This is a RE-INVASION of The Ukraine and...it seems to me...giving the INVADED COUNTRY some systems to DEFEND their HOMELAND against said INVADERS is what's being discussed.

I'm jus' sayin;'...

You’ve got too much emotional investment in this war to have a meaningful discussion with, for whatever reason. If you have actual points to discuss, I’d...

You’ve got too much emotional investment in this war to have a meaningful discussion with, for whatever reason. If you have actual points to discuss, I’d be happy to do that with you. 
 

ns503 wrote:

They sounded like actual points to me. How aren't they?

Because they’re facts that nobody has disputed being emphasized in Manny-speak. Nobody has disputed that Russia has invaded a foreign country, that it has used tremendous firepower to kill civilians, or even that it attacked a nuclear facility. If all Manny can do here is yell about facts that have happened, all I can do is chase inferences to see if I can figure out what he’s arguing. He could save everyone the time and just make his points in text that’s actually readable. 
 

 

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philG
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10861
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Location
GB
2/25/2023 10:27am
philG wrote:
Is anyone not even the slightest bit curious at to why there are zero journalists on the ground in Ukraine. We are a year in and...

Is anyone not even the slightest bit curious at to why there are zero journalists on the ground in Ukraine.

We are a year in and its been crickets, apart from puff peices and propaganda. 

Surely wouldnt proper footage help convince people that spending money we dont have to save these people is worthwhile. 

Or is it another one of those ' well we dont  want to show you, but its really like that ' moments. 

IanMac138 wrote:

ZERO  journalists on the ground? What f'ing wormhole are you living in? 

Compared to all the other conflicts the coverage seems off. 

It isnt even the lead story half the time here on TV or in the MSM. 

When you think of how easy it is compared to 10 years ago, to get info out there, it just isnt happening. 

I have just been on the BBC website, you wouldnt even know there was a war on. 

 

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10
ns503
Posts
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Location
NS Toolies CA
2/25/2023 10:51am
philG wrote:
Is anyone not even the slightest bit curious at to why there are zero journalists on the ground in Ukraine. We are a year in and...

Is anyone not even the slightest bit curious at to why there are zero journalists on the ground in Ukraine.

We are a year in and its been crickets, apart from puff peices and propaganda. 

Surely wouldnt proper footage help convince people that spending money we dont have to save these people is worthwhile. 

Or is it another one of those ' well we dont  want to show you, but its really like that ' moments. 

IanMac138 wrote:

ZERO  journalists on the ground? What f'ing wormhole are you living in? 

philG wrote:
Compared to all the other conflicts the coverage seems off.  It isnt even the lead story half the time here on TV or in the MSM. ...

Compared to all the other conflicts the coverage seems off. 

It isnt even the lead story half the time here on TV or in the MSM. 

When you think of how easy it is compared to 10 years ago, to get info out there, it just isnt happening. 

I have just been on the BBC website, you wouldnt even know there was a war on. 

 

You said zero, and it is far from that. Very much in all the news here, with reporting from Ukraine.

1
Bob693
Posts
1409
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Location
TX US
2/28/2023 6:25am
IanMac138 wrote:

ZERO  journalists on the ground? What f'ing wormhole are you living in? 

philG wrote:
Compared to all the other conflicts the coverage seems off.  It isnt even the lead story half the time here on TV or in the MSM. ...

Compared to all the other conflicts the coverage seems off. 

It isnt even the lead story half the time here on TV or in the MSM. 

When you think of how easy it is compared to 10 years ago, to get info out there, it just isnt happening. 

I have just been on the BBC website, you wouldnt even know there was a war on. 

 

ns503 wrote:

You said zero, and it is far from that. Very much in all the news here, with reporting from Ukraine.

The only thing I ever see is about the latest celebrity visiting or someone from the Biden administration is there to pick up their thank you bag of cash. WTF is the treasury secretary doing there?

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4
Robgvx
Posts
3993
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Location
GB
2/28/2023 7:57am
philG wrote:
Compared to all the other conflicts the coverage seems off.  It isnt even the lead story half the time here on TV or in the MSM. ...

Compared to all the other conflicts the coverage seems off. 

It isnt even the lead story half the time here on TV or in the MSM. 

When you think of how easy it is compared to 10 years ago, to get info out there, it just isnt happening. 

I have just been on the BBC website, you wouldnt even know there was a war on. 

 

There’s a whole section on the BBC website.  
 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-60525350

1
lappedrider
Posts
1534
Joined
8/26/2006
Location
Tooele, UT US
2/28/2023 12:19pm
DPR250R wrote:

And what a coincidence… 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-64789737
 

… seems like the new cool thing is to question if the war is even happening. 

 

It’s terrifying.  And this thread proves again and again just how effective disinformation can be.  

5
swordfish
Posts
1950
Joined
9/2/2021
Location
Somewhere , AB CA
2/28/2023 3:28pm
DPR250R wrote:

And what a coincidence… 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-64789737
 

… seems like the new cool thing is to question if the war is even happening. 

 

It’s terrifying.  And this thread proves again and again just how effective disinformation can be.  

Yes it does. From both sides. If you cannot admit that, you are a victim of it. 

2
9
OleTex
Posts
658
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Location
Central, TX US
3/2/2023 11:19am

I see they celebrated the one year mark of the war around Europe. In Riga, they have a destroyed Russian tank on display. 

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Leave Us To
Posts
1141
Joined
10/21/2015
Location
Rocky River, OH US
3/2/2023 12:15pm
philG wrote:
Compared to all the other conflicts the coverage seems off.  It isnt even the lead story half the time here on TV or in the MSM. ...

Compared to all the other conflicts the coverage seems off. 

It isnt even the lead story half the time here on TV or in the MSM. 

When you think of how easy it is compared to 10 years ago, to get info out there, it just isnt happening. 

I have just been on the BBC website, you wouldnt even know there was a war on. 

 

Robgvx wrote:

There’s a whole section on the BBC website.  
 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-60525350

Sure PhilG got it wrong about the lack of coverage but maybe his forensic mathematicians have the Ukraine conflict figured out like they did the 2020 election? 

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