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The record books don't care about the strength of the competitors.
The only things that matter are stats.
Fact is that RD, RV, Stanton, and Hannah all have more titles than James. Hence the reason why they are listed ahead of him on the list the OP posted.
The Montreal Canadiens have 24 Stanley Cups.
Are they not the best NHL franchise in the history of the sport despite the fact they haven't won it since 1993?
The next closest is the Maple Leafs with 13.
The Yankees have 27 World Series championships. Are they not the best team in the league's history?
Titles over everything else.
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And all that scrubbing, quading, whoop speed (although incredible to watch) more often than not lead to throwing away titles. If the objective was to have the single fastest lap Stewart wins hands down.
Dungey has beaten Stewart h2h more than Stewart has beaten Dungey. Not to mention the all time podium record. Kinda lost how you have Stewart above RD5?
I think there are two arguments.
I agree, if you are ONLY considering wins and titles. They are comparable and maybe Dunge has an edge to be ahead on the list bc of the title factor.
If it is a comprehensive list of all factors involved (strength of competition, etc) its not close. JS had to race RC at his peak for most of his career, Chad, then Villopoto who is also ahead of Dunge.
The wins you mention for RD vs JS were in the twilight years of JS career after the suspension, etc.
Just perspective. Also, James rode an underpowered 2 stroke one of the years and a piece of shit early gen backwards motor yamaha that nearly killed him another year when he was in prime title contention. Also lost at least two years of title contention due to the drug suspension.
I don't disagree w/ him throwing away wins/titles tho.
Big part of that though that’s overlooked is Dungey’s consistency and longevity. Villopoto destroyed himself to win those titles against Dungey, and in those 4 SX Championships, only raced 2 MX series. Dungey didn’t miss a single SX or MX series from 10-17 when he retired. He did, however, start one in 16 before pulling out due to injury. Yet still came away with the same amount of SX Championships as Villopoto and multiple other podium finishes in final championship standing.
So not true. Racing is man and machine on the track. The machine has a massive team behind it. These days most riders also have a team behind them.
I won't argue that the rider is by far the biggest factor. It's just not the whole story and there certainly is a team effort that has a very real impact on deciding results including wins and titles.
An argument can be made that Stewart could’ve taken any one of Dungey’s 4 titles away from him. James was still plenty fast to win those years. He just either wasn’t on the track due to injury or crashing a lot if he was on the track. It would be safe to say Hannah could’ve won lots more if he didn’t destroy his legs in a water skiing accident. Or RV getting injured several years. Or RJ getting injured. It’s all part of the game. All part of what makes greatness.
Just like if Dungey's chain doesn't break he takes one of those SX titles from RV. It's all part of it.
I didn’t realize Stanton had only 17 wins but 3 titles that’s wild
Nobody on earth has the Leafs as the 2nd greatest NHL team in NHL history.
So MC has 7 titles indoor and RC has 10 outdoor but Stewart is the real GOAT is what I’m gathering
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Ultimately, you can twist and contort your criteria to put almost anyone you want from 2-10.
Yet, it's impossible to put anyone else at #1.
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Stewart did the "sickest" whips and scrubs, so that's what makes him the best according to many.
The fact that he couldn't keep it on 2 wheels long enough to win titles doesn't mean anything to them. I've never understood the whole 'most talented' thing myself. If he was that talented, why was he always crashing out? Most reckless? Yeah probably.
Taking wins without titles is a bit like a boxer winning the first 8 rounds of a fight and then getting knocked out in the 9th. Then claiming he's still the best because he threw some "sick" combinations in those first 8 rounds.
Great rider. Huge balls. But not in the top 5 all time IMO.
I look at James Bubba Stewart the same way I look at Barry Bonds, Sammy Sosa, Mark McGuire or Lance Armstrong, they all used illegal performance enhancing drugs to increase their ability to succeed in their sports. Once James Stewart was caught and then not allowed to use Adderall anymore, he was never the same rider and couldn't win anymore. Thats a big problem when athletes cheat, because it makes you wonder if their competition that was racing on natural ability had used the same performance enhancing drugs cheater did, would they have actually been faster themselves and won more races. I'll admit James Stewart was fun to watch, but his records will be forever tainted by his banned drug use, so I don't think he even deserves to be on the same list as those racers that did it the natural way.
It's a very good point, but not too popular on here.
It seems fairly obvious that he was using unlimited amounts of Adderall (Amphetamine) to help his mental game, to help him concentrate for a full race. He still had the odd brain fart but generally he could hold it together. Given that Adderall helps increase focus and reduces impulsivity, it is very clear why he was using it.
After he was caught and got the ban, he was just a crasher making stupid mistakes all the time. It makes you wonder how many races he'd have won before the ban if he was clean.
Taking Amphetamines to help your mental game is no different to taking Steroids to help your physical game.
Well! the truth shouldn't be hidden just because it's not popular. Cheating is Cheating and using a banned substance to increase your performance against other extremely talented riders who are trying to do it the legal and natural way should be exposed. Lance Armstrong won 7 tour de france titles, but his banned substance use has made him an embarrassment to the sport, James Stewart should be treated no different.
That's all well and good but your missing a key point, you forgot the mention the ones that got away with it.
For example there was a Australian Football Club who got done for club wide doping (97%) of the players from memory, you know what happened? the AFL let the club play on and guess what, not one single club complained about playing against drug cheats, not a single fucking player spoke up about it, if you knew there was a team or athlete cheating against you you would feel it's pretty unfair unless all teams and clubs are doping.
Silence speaks volumes.
You can single out Lance or James as much as you want they got caught right? so they must be the only ones doping right?
Dungey had a better SX career than Ricky and RV. Dunge raced 8 seasons, 4 titles, a 2nd, and 3 3rd overalls. Only missed 2-3 races in that span. RC also raced 8 full years, 5 titles(06 is suspect, if all the races counted, JS7 is champ that year) rookie year 16th (compare that to RD) next year 5th, and in 04 he did not race. Then we look at RV, 6 seasons, 4 titles, first 2 years got broken off to get 6th and 4th, (as mentioned above in 2011 he has Dungeys chain to thank for that title) then after the titles he quit and didn’t race RD at full strength.
Both RV and RC seem to get credit for quitting early, and their non title years being such a disaster that they seem to not factor in. Where Dungey was either the best, or was right in the fight to be the best every single race he entered from the first one to the last one.
if I’ve learned anything about this place it’s that I will get plenty of downvotes, but I will NOT get a coherent argument saying that I’m wrong about this.
Well! when you take a banned substance to give yourself an unfair advantage other riders who do it right and don't cheat dont have, that cheating rider should have their titles stripped from them. You can assume that James Stewart was taking Adderall his entire SX/MX career, so his name should have an asterisk for that. Those titles are artificial compared to the guys who gutted it out physically and mentally without the help of banned drugs. Bubba was suspended for 16 months for a reason, he got busted rightfully so.
Why go down the EPO rabbit hole? We’ll never know the truth of who “juiced” their way to a championship.
You realize he only did a handful of races after the ban correct?
And that was after sitting at home on the couch for almost 2 years near the end of his career anyways.
He came in visually out of shape, after almost 2 years of inactivity, near the end of his career. He was battling for the lead in his first main back before colliding with Dungey (he also qualified fastest), knocking him out for over a minute. He tried racing the next weekend and THAT is where the issues started. The head knock.
Creating your own false narrative exposes your clear bias, and you post history is F'ing sad. 15 years of shitting on Stewart. Incredible. And you haven't been paid a dime to do it.
Get a life.
Why can you assume that when he never failed a single test prior to the Seattle 2014 SX test?
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