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I just want more helmets certified. I've only seen documentation of 7 motocross helmets certified to ECE 22.06. More test data doesn't mean there is any medical meaning in those results. I don't care about a difference between two helmets impact test at 8 mph resulting in 35g vs 40g because neither result is a concussion.
I have three helmets I rotate around with, Fly formula carbon, Bell moto 9 flex and Astars SM5. I typically grab the Fly because of the weight and ventilation. I prefer the styling of the Bell over the Fly and Astars, but for weight and airflow you can't beat the Fly IMO. I know the SM5 is a lower end helmet, I typically take it when we trail ride bc I don't care if it gets scratched and beat up. I used to be an Arai and Shoei snob but advancements in technology have long surpassed those two brands IMO.
How is the ventilation on the sm5?
I've updated the chart accordingly. Sorry about that JT. I mistakenly pulled the original data from a real-world test review, which also cited several other helmets as heavier than their manufacturer's claim.
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It's pretty good, the helmet is light too. IDK exact weights but pretty sure it's lighter than the Bell. Fitment IMO is closer to the Fly on my head. It's a very good budget helmet.
Wouldn't you like to see how much better one helmet did VS another helmet though? So you could see which helmet would have the best chance of being the most protective for you? Like see some numbers that show what the difference is between brands and models . How close they are to just passing or exceeding the ece 22.06 testing?
Energy reduction over the minimum required to meet ECE22.06 to see which performs the best and by how much more than others.
For the helmets that are just trying to keep you alive, I can see more of a pass fail level that the changes in impact absorption would not really matter as much. Since its a threshold of keeping you alive or not. and not going beyond that. But still I'm sure that some do better than others.
The amount of force that needed to cause a concussion can decrease if a rider has had multiple concussions over time. So I would think that knowing if a helmet absorbs more energy and gets you farther from the amount needed to cause an injury would be info worth knowing. Especially since every crash is different anyway.
How would knowing how much better a helmet performs in the ECE22.06 over another be a bad thing? If the certification testing is the standard you trust , wouldn't it be nice to see a chart of each test and how each helmet performed against each other?
It would be nice to see the certification test results. Then we could see which helmets barely meet the spec vs those that were some fraction better.
No I don't want all test results published because it's too much information for laypeople to understand. There have been ECE 22.06 helmets on the market since October 2020 - how many helmets have been sold without the rating in the last 2-1/2 years? I want people to buy the helmets proven to have at least this standard of safety:
Will the helmet prevent >275g brain acceleration if I hit something really hard going 17 mph?
Will the helmet prevent >180g brain acceleration if I hit something really hard going 13 mph?
If the answer is yes to both questions, that reduces the entire market to about 7 helmets. Media outlets are not covering this. People buying helmets don't even know to look for the right sticker.
My next helmet will be a Fly. My current helmet is Fly. I like Fly helmets.
My 14 cents. (Adjusted for inflation)
Totally agree “for weight and airflow you can't beat the Fly”!
I tried a few helmets on last week. They all felt heavier than my 09 fox v3 . The new fox doesn’t fit very good , very loose on the sides, the rest felt odd& it looks stupid. Fly also felt heavier & fit horrible. Along with answer. They all fit terrible & felt heavier than a 09 fox v3. The visors all point to the sky. Do they still make a fox v3 09-2010 model ? I,m more concerned with fit than safety. Since I rarely crash. The only contact my helmets ever hv is from a chics legs squeezing it while there cleaning it . Or clean air from out front.
The only time Profeshenal has been spotted without chicks legs wrapped around his head
How would that be a bad thing to have more info out there? If the helmet passes the certifications then you already know it is on the safer side. It would still have the certifications.For the people that know enough to look for the certifications that they think matter , but not able to understand the test data.And it would give info for people to learn to understand if they wanted to.
For many people the only sticker they care about is the price , and if it looks cool. Those people are not going to even want to look at test data. I guess it could cause some confusion over which is the safest helmet for people who do not understand the info. But how is that any worse than it is now? The helmets would still have the certifications . People who understand the info could use it to be able to make a more informed decision. People who understand the info could make videos ,podcasts, etc explaining what the data means . Helmet companies could do more to educate the dealers on what the data means .
As someone who agrees that ECE 22.06 is the best standard for moto helmets available today, I'm genuinely curious as to why you find Snell relevant? Relevant to what? With respect to moto, I find Snell certifications as helpful as DOT (which is to say, not at all). FortNine does a good job covering the reasons why here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76yu124i3Bo
And for what it's worth to this thread and the data provided, I recently ordered three helmets to test fitment myself. I chose the 6D ATR-2, Fly Formula Carbon, and Leatt 9.5 Carbon. The 6D is the only one that has arrived so far. It is a unit produced in June of 2022 and only shows an ECE 22.05 certification. Outside of one poster in this thread, I cannot find anything demonstrating that this helmet has ever passed ECE 22.06. Would love to see any official communications that this has changed. Barring any fitment issues with my three choices, I am biased towards the one that meets ECE 22.06.
I am in the market for a new helmet and this seems like the best thread for helmet safety information. I am still wondering about rotational impacts. Is MIPS any more tested than the rotational impact systems built by 6D, Leatt, and Fly? These are the brands I am currently leading towards, but have always been a fan of the MIPS system.
Whats a clavicle cutaway?
Pit Row
When you say more tested. Do you mean proven to work better? I've searched for testing results that will name names so they are worth something. And I have not found anything beyond the info on the websites for each of those brands. They all seem to make the case that their systems go above what MIPS offers.
But it would be interesting to see some real info. I know every crash will be different , and results may not reflect how well the helmet might work in every crash. But I would think there has to be some sort of pattern to test results that could show which system worked best for a size range of rider , and certain types of impacts. And give people more to go off of than the marketing info.
I used to say the 6D would be the safest. But after seeing what leatt said about the overall size of a helmet impacting how much rotational energy is transferred , I have wondered how the extra space needed for 6d's system impacts its performance. I am a 6D dealer , and they wanted me to give them a call to answer that in detail along with any other questions . But I got so busy with other things so I have not given them a call yet.
Of those 3 helmets ,I would try them all on and see which fits best. Fitting very well will help all the other stuff work better.
I only say that I am a dealer for those ( 6d and Leatt) brands so I am open about having something to gain . Not trying to sell anybody anything on here. I became a dealer for those brands because I was a believer in their helmets , not the other way around.
Whoa wild, are they exclusive to bell lids? protects against collarbone breaks I suspect is the marketing? we think it works?
It just seems that the MIPS system has been tested for many more years than these helmet manufacturers and was wondering if their was any proven advantage of one over another. It is very hard to contrast all of these low speed / rotational impact prevention systems.
I am glad I found this thread as I have been running Bell helmets, but now that I see they are all Snell rated, it makes me want to learn towards other helmets. I also see on the other thread active today of more manufacturers (alpinestars m10 and soon to be 2024 Fox V3) with both ECE22.06 and MIPS so I will be looking at those too.
I thought that was what You might have meant. That Mips has been around and is in many brands of helmets so it has likely been tested much more just due to the larger number of helmets with it in them. Sometimes I wonder if there are helmets designed to do well in the tests but other models may do better in the real world when You do not have such perfectly replicated hits. I guess that could also be a reason for not naming names and showing data as far as test results go. The reasoning Arai states for having a round and smooth shell makes sense. They want the helmet to slide instead of digging in. And as outdated as they seem, their policies for dealers and customer service are the most strict I have read from all the brands. Arai requires online/mail order sellers to pay return shipping and exchange helmets for the correct size. There is a time limit on it and other conditions that both customer and dealer have to meet.
I really like the Alpinestars SM10 and SM8 helmets. That 2024 SM10 will come with the EJECT system . They added EPS and a softer rubber molding in the area the Bell moto 10 has that cut out for collarbone injury prevention , it is more than just testing the old model and updating a decal. There are more changes to it than it looks like on the outside. Pro racers have had to have a Hats off device in their helmets for years now. Including a device like that in the SM10 is great. I have a customer who organizes the EMT's for a local track. I'll have to ask him if they would already have the pump needed and what they know about that type of device. You can add the EJECT bladder to any helmet. But its nice to know they have included it with the helmet . Alpinestars fit and finish are very nice! I used to paint helmets and have handled all the high end models and brands( some car helmets that make the retail price of a Moto 10 look like a bargain!). And the Alpinestars helmets are right there at the top as far as materials , fit ,finish and feel. They also vent extremely well. The Glossy solid Carbon Fiber SM10 is a work of art! Alpinestars also has info on how much better the helmet performed above a passing result in certain aspects of the ECE 22.06 testing on their site in the info about the 2024 SM10.
A friend of mine recently switched to an SM8 from wearing Shoei helmets for the past 2 generations they had. And he was blown away with how light and well vented they are. Said they were like not wearing a helmet compared to the VFX-Evo's he has been wearing. He called me to order an SM10 the day after he rode in the SM8. He likes to have multiple helmets , he has been racing at the Expert and Pro level for years and is now a Vet rider. He said he can never wear the Shoei again after wearing the SM8. He is very picky and honest about what he uses and races multiple classes every weekend.
I can not say that it will protect You better or worse than a 6D ATr-2 will. I still think the 6d system might work better all around but its hard to really know. The Current SM8 and SM10 have a second generation version of mips that is more built into the liner than some of the other helmets with Mips. I think the new SM10 still has that same generation of Mips. And You can adjust how the helmet sits on your head. The liners have 4 positions that You can adjust. They also have optional size cheek pads that help if You find yourself feeling in between sizes.
I say it in just about every post, but go to a local dealer and try them on in person. If You have to plan out a day to hit a few places , it is worth investing the time to make sure You get the best fitting option. Even a not so bad head injury will take more than a day to recover from.
I copied this from Alpinestars website's info on the 2024 SM10. I will provide a link as well , or You can go to the Alpinestars site Yourself if You do not feel safe clicking links. I hope that more manufacturers will include how they perform in the tests, by how much they pass or exceed the testing standards. If I find other similar info on other ECE 22.06 helmets I will post it and links to the manufactures site with the info.
• The result of the unique shell lay-up process employed in the S-M10 construction results in extremely effective impact protection. The S-M10 returning linear and oblique impact performance which exceeds current helmet regulation standard limits. For direct linear impacts, which is an impact at a 90-degree angle between the helmet and an object, the SM10 surpasses the new ECE 22.06 standard for 2024 by an average magnitude of 46% for regular-speed impacts. New for the ECE 22.06 standard, new requirements now include low-speed and high-speed linear impacts where the SM10 surpasses the new ECE 22.06 Peak Linear Acceleration standards by 23% and 28% respectively.
https://www.alpinestars.com/products/supertech-m10-fame-helmet
With the positive points brought up about the SM10, prompted me to check them out. Surprised that the 2024 SM10 in a small or medium size are showing as sold out on Alpinestar site and a number of other sites that I took a look at.
The 24 models haven't come in stock yet.
The 6D required no changes to pass 22.06 so yours is just a model that was built before they changed over the stickers. All of the new 23 graphics have the 22.06 sticker on them.
Friendly reminder to verify the information on the helmet. Manufacturers may or may not have had to make changes to a specific model, but the sticker is the only proof. Less than a handful of off road helmet models had the 22.06 certification in 2020, and it's taken over 2 years longer than other manufacturers to get the same certification.
There's no standardized test standard to compare them, other than the certifications which are pass/fail. Ultimately it's marketing with different test methods by different doctors. There is technical material available from those companies and their skeptics. IMO the MIPS is just a slip-surface material, quite a bit different from the other features that offer some form of linear and rotational deflection.
I question if Arai even believes their own marketing. Those vent covers stick way out and give their helmets the most protrusions of any helmet on the market.
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