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One thing I can't get on board with is: "I can't afford a home...must be those flippers...must be those corporations buying up all the houses" I can't afford a home so everyone but me should change so that I will be able too....Basically saying that its EVERYONE ELSE'S fault I can't afford a home...I can't handle the lack of personal responsibility.
Can't afford a house? Take personal responsibility and work to change your financial situation...or...look at relocating to a cheaper market. Make it happen...or own it...stop pointing fingers. It's nobody's fault but your own. It's not easy...I get that...I'm not saying it is...but stop placing blame on other people.
My taking responsibility was getting into a high demand trade.
I’m located near Seattle. Finding a house that isn’t a shit box for under 700K is impossible. Even outside the city.
With that said, how do property values go up 250K in two years?
Is it my fault I don’t have a 100K lying around to add on top of the asking price? Yet alone, on top of the down payment?
Is it your fault? Ultimately, yes it is your fault. Who else are you going to blame?
If you are in a high demand trade AND you want to buy a home...then keep saving your money...and/or...pick up a side hustle...and/or...move to a cheaper state/city, where I'm sure your trade is needed (since its a "high demand trade"), and where you can get a virtual mansion for $700K. Or a great 1500 sq ft 3 bed 2 bath home for $175K.
Anyway, you've got options besides blaming the big bad "corporations for buying up all the houses" or the "investors" or "greedy flippers" while sitting on your thumb and begging the government to "do something about it". If you don't want to sacrifice more (and longer) to save enough money for a home where you currently live and/or you choose not to relocate to a place where you can afford a home...then you are the reason you don't own a home, nobody else.
Moving to a cheaper state means, lower wages. I’m not moving to Louisiana or, BFE to find cheaper housing for a $18 hr job.
Saving longer just to add an additional 100k over the asking price?
How did houses skyrocket an additional 250k in two years? A person could’ve bought a decent home six years ago with just that additional 250k. I’m not blaming anyone else. It just doesn’t seem right that the cost of housing isn’t affordable for most middle class people anymore.
Wages for the same trade in the 70’s, 80’s, 90’s, 2000’s - 2015ish were lucrative because inflation isn’t what it is now. The wages matched the cost of living.
People who bought a house for 540K eight years ago are sitting in houses that are worth over a million now. Guess what. They were making nearly the same hourly they’re currently making now. While the housing market has increased drastically, wages haven’t.
20% on a 700K house? Do you have a 140K lying around? Then say, another 100K on top of asking? All that while trying to get by with your current living expenses.
The larger percentage of houses are being bought by companies turning homes into rentals in my area. That is a fact.
You’re a loan agent/broker are you not? I imagine you would remain hopeful the market continues climbing.
Was the market this inflated when you bought your house?
Sitting on my thumb while blaming others? Dude you’re really making assumptions. I saved for 15 fucking years to get a decent down payment put away. Now, I gotta save another 100K? Seems about right. GTFOH.
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If you wanted to buy a house bad enough, you’d move to some place you can afford a house. If you choose not to relocate, then you are choosing not to buy a home, so it’s your choice, not anyone else’s fault.
Housing ultimately climbed due to demand. Someone was willing to pay those prices so they kept going up.
You won’t need $100k over asking now (at least in my market)…values are sliding as interest rates have climbed which is decreasing affordability, and driving values down.
Personally I would do far better if the market corrected. So I’m not cheering on record appreciation…I write the most loans when the median home price is affordable by the median income.
Carl how much does an underwriter make compared to a lender? Just bought a place and always wondered about them and what the job exactly entails. That’s awesome you work from home
Though I see some of your points, leaving California for the PNW to get into a trade, save for a home, only to keep getting pushed out of the market doesn’t mean, it’s best I look for another state with a cheaper cost of living.
We’re at a 40 year high in the current housing market. I have several friends and, family members who have moved to other states, with the thought of buying a home within a year or, two. They’re in the exact same boat I am. I’ve already moved twice chasing better paying jobs. From Los Angeles, to Portland, to Seattle. They have great paying jobs, yet, with this market, I guess as you’d put it, sitting on their thumbs like myself.
There no simple answer. I’ll reiterate. Cheaper cost of living, means less hourly in a market with a high that’s pushed us all back to our drawing boards. 140K annually these days, is like 60k 15 years ago.
For what it’s worth, Portland, LA, and Seattle have always been some of the most expensive markets in the country.
Move to the middle of the country, take a 20%-30% pay cut (I have no idea what you do so I’m guessing), but a 50%-70% reduction in home values.
To me It doesn’t make any sense to live in one of the most expensive markets in the country and complain about home values.
edit: I’m mucking up this thread…so I’m going to bow out of this. Sorry OP…
I’m a commercial plumber who specializes in medical gas and, cryogenics.
Apologies to the op. Didn’t mean to derail the thread.
The future is dark for blue collar/trade work. I've been a mechanic primarily from 2005 till now. Minus a few off years where shops weren't hiring. Back in 2007 during my senior year of high school I worked at an oil change center. We were trying to hire a replacement for myself and the first thing I noticed at that time was kids didn't wanna do the work, understand how to fix things or even learn. It was a time in our town where parents started buying their kids fancy new cars so they never had to work on them. I went to MMI after that. Fast forward to 2012 and I started as a heavy equipment mechanic at an open pit gold and copper mine. Loved the job, loved learning, loved working on the scale of equipment we have. I latched on to older techs to learn as fast as I could and get my tech level upgrades. 2020 I got my final upgrade and aside cost of living raises I was maxed out for hourly wages. I needed more and was already a Leadman/Relief Supervisor. I applied and took a full time Supervisor spot in 2021. But man what I've seen as we hire younger folks is no drive, no desire to learn. Our Maintenance crews are getting younger. The attention to detail isn't there anymore. The hustle and motivation is non existent and I don't know why. We work 6 months of the year with our schedule. Starting wages are $28 an hour and go up to $43 an hour before bonus. To me its a hell of gig, not to mention after some time you can build quite the vacation hours. I'm 11 years in and I can build 250 hours of vacation a year. But its still not enough. We've got folks that get hired and just show up, never trying to get a raise and are perfectly ok with doing nothing more than fueling equipment and spinning filters.
"Just move an hour away from your place of work and buy a double wide where someone might come kill your wife after you leave. No? Well, stop blaming others for your failure."
Drink piss buddy. All of the 50 year old home owners that benefited from economic prosperity keep telling me and other young people stuff like this and it's beyond tone deaf.
As I've said before, this is a theme that keeps getting repeated over and over without actually looking at the underlying issues that are causing it. It's an irrefutable fact that asset prices relative to income have gone exponential over the last few decades, it's not as simple as working harder or picking up a side hustle, there are structural issues within global markets that are moving away from people. I really don't know what the solution is, but denying that the problem exists isn't it.
Here's a great video that gives a bit of perspective on the issue, I listen to this show every day for market related news but this was a really fascinating discussion about asset prices relative to income. This is going way beyond a personal responsibility problem and I'm beyond fucking sick of hearing that bullshit repeated endlessly, it's simply not true and a convenient deflection from a very complex problem. I'll likely be able to get a house within the next few months, but at that point my life is pretty much going to be over because 80% of my take home income is going to go to the mortgage, that's absolutely insane.
Well, I don't want to derail topic either, but I will say that I was enjoying a reasonable debate between you two, with both making sound arguments without ever resorting to petty name calling, (or worse yet getting political).
It was refreshing.
Back to the op topic.
Underwriters at my work make between $30-40hr plus we get a little kickback for each file we work that closes/funds. The bonus averages out to about an additional $300-500 a month depending on volume. I know the brokers/mortgage officers all get a base pay of like $2k a month then commissions on top of that which makes up the majority of their income. I have no idea how much they get for commission but what I can tell you is our top broker pulls in about half a mil per year. She's an animal though....works nonstop and has serious connections with builder companies. I'll routinely get emails from her at 2-3am even on weekends but I don't complain because it's more money in my pocket.
Edit:
To break it down in basic terms...as an Underwriter our main job is to approve/qualify you for the loan. We review your last 2 years of tax returns, 2 years of W2's, 1 month recent paystubs, 2-6 months of recent bank statements, credit report to review your FICO score, any open accounts, total Debt-to-income ratio, any bankruptcy history, etc. then we make a decision if it meets all requirements. It gets tricky when you have a borrower with self employment or any rental properties but same principle applies. Brokers/Mortgage officers are more like salespeople and have to do a lot of networking and rely on referrals to get business. You can walk into any of our branches and talk to a MO to apply for a home loan (or equity) but the best MO's are the ones going to various real estate meetings, gatherings, etc. and bringing the business to us.
I think I saw that the median income mortgage loan officer in America is like $35k/year.
There are outliers though…the top producer at my company had nearly $2m on his w2 last year. I’m not in that ball park…but I do VERY well (relative to median income in America…) but it took probably a decade of straight grinding to develop the relationships required to generate enough referrals (like I said, I had no connections going into this as my family are all coal miners so I moved from rural eastern utah to the Wasatch front and had to figure it out on my own), and building a rock star team around myself, to earn 8x-10x the median income in America. But now it’s great…average about 20-25 hours/week, almost unlimited flexibility, I can do the “office work” part of my job from a lap top any where in the world, and most of my time is hanging out with people that I like and like to do business with (to keep those referrals coming in), while my team-two of which are underwriters-is working 40-50 hours per week in the office making sure the loans close on time (I believe in finding the right people and then paying them enough that they’d never want to leave).
if you have an outgoing, likable personality, like people, and can handle commission only income and are willing to put in the work and grind to build and maintain relationships, it’s an awesome career…though I’m sure it will be replaced by AI and a computer at some point in the next 15-20 years, so I’m not telling my kids to go into the family business.
I mostly worked in water distribution over the last 7-8 years. Pipeline, daily work orders, main repairs and what not. I recently moved over to water treatment and I haven’t seen a shovel or bore machine since I’ve been here. I’m indoors and it pays better too.
I should have made the move earlier.
Working with distribution you will always have some sort of field work, even my old superintendent would get the in the ditch with us. Regulations will likely get more strict in ca which will mean more treatment plants will be needed.
waste water would also be a good field to get into
58 years old, have owned a landscaping business all my life. Started by plowing snow with a farm tractor and mowing lawns in subdivisions when I was 14. I still have many of my original customers, and their businesses/lives have grown with mine, most of these people are like family to me. I never went to college, I never had the time. We are now doing huge commercial construction development projects, high end residential, and prestigious keystone property maintenance. I am the same weight and waste size I was when I graduated high school and still ride dirt bikes at least 250 hours a year, along with camping, mnt. biking, hiking, etc.. But I take my health very seriously, the more I can do in a day means the more I can make, and I am not ashamed to say I am mercenary. Many of my peers are worn out, of course. But if your love is pizza, tv, and beer, naturally that is the route your body will go as well. All that being said, both my kids went to college, the climate for owning a business anymore is brutal. As far as trades vs. college, if you do something others do not want to do and do it well, you can name your price/conditions, where that skill comes from doesn't matter.
Guess it's a big secret to some where money comes from.
Pit Row
You need a little luck and timing to hv success in your journey. I go to 3 diff ymca to keep it fresh. I ran into a older guy that has a studio. I told him I write a lot of songs & some r paradies. I sang a few versus of bye bye Mx glove he laughed his butt off. He was in a band for yrs unfortunately he had a stroke & his left arm & leg r frozen. He claims he can play all the instruments including the drums. You watch just recording it for fun well actually I always thought I would hv a song on the radio. I,ll end up making millions on a goof just screwing around. Well plus racing Profeshenaly in 50a, 55a
I searched Lehi Utah for 3 bedroom houses on Zillow. The cheapest thing I see is a 3 bedroom, 1 bath 1,000 sqft home for $420,000. I find condos that look like cheap apartments in the 300s. Show me that $175k place your talking about, otherwise you're just another out of touch goof trying to talk down to me about how I just need to be better at saving.
Do the same search across most of the populated country and you find the same thing. Your entry point is no longer in the 100k range, a starter home is 300k minimum. So the reason most people can't buy a home is because it's 3 times more expensive than it was just a few years ago, not because they don't know how to save.
50 here, I've been in the oilfield the past 24yrs all across the globe. I see it daily with having to babysit the young guys and spoon feed them as to not upset their apple cart.
I started my first side business nearly 4yrs ago, and 3 more since then, I kick my own ass now for not starting those sooner as within 5yrs they should be able to generate enough mailbox money to not have to put in the 91hrs a week I bill out to the oil company (actual hours I am at work).
I have a 24yr old with a Digital Media degree that put in over 200 applications after graduation, he got 1 offer out of all of those and took that part time work, going to school is not the answer to todays problems, or the fix. He now freelances and luckily has made more money doing it than his friends that got some lower paying jobs down in Austin.
I wished more kids would go into the trades as there is always a demand, and will always be a demand.
Mike Rowe is an articulate and diverse character.
I remember listening to this podcast a number of years ago. There is a lot of good insight in this
“We’re lending money we don’t have to kids who can’t pay it back to educate them for jobs that don’t exist anymore,”
https://lewishowes.com/podcast/mike-rowe/
I know I said I was done with this topic on this thread, but I do want to clarify...I didn't say to move to Utah (Utah is too expensive for a lot of people too)...I said move to middle America...here are 8 homes in the $175K range (I saw many homes cheaper than these on there), that took me 30 seconds to find...so, here ya go...(and I'm not meaning to talk down to anyone...if that's how my comments are perceived, my apologies):
Like Cedar Rapids Iowa:
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/815-C-Ave-NW-Cedar-Rapids-IA-52405/7…
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1829-D-Ave-NE-Cedar-Rapids-IA-52402/…
Or Amarillo Texas
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/15111-Xl-Trl-Amarillo-TX-79118/55656…
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/2601-Oak-Dr-Amarillo-TX-79107/556007…
Or Birmingham Alabama
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1308-Hartford-Dr-Birmingham-AL-35215…
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1557-Moseley-Ln-Birmingham-AL-35215/…
Or Little Rock Arkansas
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/8-Deer-Meadow-Cv-Little-Rock-AR-7220…
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/116-Westfield-Loop-Little-Rock-AR-72…
And I could go on and on with CITIES (not rural-in-the-middle-of-nowhere of towns) in the middle of our country where a 3 bed 2 bath 1500ish sq ft home is STILL under $200K.
Like I said, from my perspective and in my opinion, it makes no sense to me to CHOOSE to live in an INCREDIBLY expensive housing market and complain about home prices.
do paducah ky next. Idk if you found the 6 realistic listings in america but 150-175 wont buy you a pissed in shoebox in this small town.
or there's somthing seriously wrong with those houses (not saying that). The "realistic" ones here have poor foundations, leaking roof, or are in the ghetto. The last one is a big one, I can't be worrying about the safety of my family when I leave.
Also, those are nice-ish starter houses. The stuff I think myself and Shawn are experiencing is also that the prices are so high on these houses that you purchase them and then go underwater on the investment day one. I won't buy a house where the payment structure is that I don't touch equity for 6 years. That's called "renting a home from yourself" and it is totally stupid.
Reference: https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/510-Leeds-Rd-Paducah-KY-42003/226385…?
Overpriced on the footage, horrible area, terrible lot, junk house, fix n flip full of crappy cabinets and bandaids. So when you say there are "houses out there" I think you mean headaches.
Nothing, on the surface wrong with those houses I posted (though I don’t know the neighborhoods)…and there plenty of others (some for even less money). So they aren’t anomalies and the best deals in the country…they are regular houses for sale in those markets…
Not sure if this link will work…but a whole bunch of 3 bed homes under 2000 sq ft in Paducah under $200k.
https://www.zillow.com/paducah-ky/?searchQueryState=%7B%22pagination%22…
I can’t speak to the quality or location of these homes…but from the listings they look like nice starter homes for under $200k.
It sounds like you want a brand new custom home, in the very best area, for 50/ft, financed on a 15 year loan but with a 30 year payment. To the point that your expectations aren’t realistic.
I wish gas was $.99/gallon, and a dozen eggs was still $.75, and it still cost $2.50 to go to a movie, and new trucks were still $19,999, and the median home price was still $80k…but that’s not reality, so I can either complain about it, and play the poor me card… or take some personal responsibility and figure out a way to live the lifestyle I want, given the current economic situation. I do and always have chosen the later.
$15-30 hr. There’s not even a listing for cryogenics on Craigslist.
There’s almost a $40 hr difference.
All I’m hearing is fuc**** banjo music while uncle daddy is screaming at sister mommy.
Prices are dropping in my area. I’m content to wait a bit longer.
You keep on with the little sentiments about how anyone but you is playing the 'poor me' card and I'd bet my nuts you don't talk to people like that in real life or you wouldn't have the motor skills to use a keyboard anymore.
Anyways, yeah some decent houses, but still very overpriced and not exactly move in ready. The market here just sucks. I'll definitely admit that I was surprised at the birmingham homes though. Not bad at all there.
Northeast of that line and you're going to struggle with riffraff. I speak from experience. I watched a dude get shot at last spring.
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/15111-Xl-Trl-Amarillo-TX-79118/55656…
BECAUSE THIS PROPERTY IS SUBJECT TO AUCTION, THE LIST PRICE MAY BE AN ESTIMATE OF VALUE. This home will be sold at a LIVE ON-SITE auction with online & phone bidding
Post a reply to: Mike Rowe. Blue collar .etc.