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Keep in mind Cooper did say he had the best off season ever prior to the 2022 season......Look, Roger cuts through the bullshit and all the juicy rationalizations riders have for not performing, and Cooper is a case in point. Truth bombs hurt all of us one time or another, but it's the truth, which is why it hurts after all. Who has left Aldon after having won a championship or 4 with him and kept on winning? Anderson? Nope. Webb? Nope? Shit Dungey was the closest to his old level after 5 years away for dang sake! I think Kenny might have been the only guy with Hart and RC's team to have moved on from Aldon and went on to win a title. One title. Which is still amazing any way you look at it.
I'm going to guess it's one of if not the worst title defense in the history of the sport aside from guys that were injured.
He had 4 podiums, no wins, and an average finish of 6.1.
Yea, I don't think that was well advised. I would think a picture like that would be like blood in the water to the competition.
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I was impressed how humble Coop seemed about it in his interview on Pulp.
Basically just admitted that leaving was a mistake, said he and Aldon had a heart to heart and hashed out their problems.
I feel like that is a level of maturity and humility that so often lacks in this sport.
Usually it’s just “fuck that guy” for a good 10 years after a falling out.
Fro in 98 was worse in terms of stats. 3 podiums. No wins. 7.3 average finish
Definitely, I heard him slamming last years bike this year.... but i never heard it last year.
It's odd too that he's saying everything changed on the bike and Roger is saying it's the same as it was last year.
Agree that he was in a slump was part of it....look at how RV and RD got burned out.
Rog is saying that because they are too full of them selves to swallow their pride and admit the bike was not where it needed to be. The amount of money that Aldon has gotten from KTM is unreal. I would be that ktm has funded most of that facility.
He was really vocal about the bike issues last season and I thought it was a big part of why he didn't race the nationals in 22.
You don't thank people when you're paying a premium for their services and being forced to do so.
Everyone looked like ass on that bike last year.
Roger needs to retire.
Guess I missed it.
There had to be some truth to it considering how the KTM family of products performed last year at elite level of competition.
Statistically, yes. Emig did miss six races, so that doesn't help.
Webb only missed one race.
Just for fun, if you look at Webb's first ten races of 2022, his average finish is 6.4.
Historically, both were bad for the defending champions.
Champions That Didn't Win a Single Race in Their Title Defense
1981: Mike Bell
Completed 12 of 12 Races
2nd in Points Standings
7 Podiums
x3 - 2nd
x4 - 3rd
Average Finish: 4.3
Worst Finish: 14th
1983: Donnie Hansen (Retired)
1998: Jeff Emig
Completed 10 of 16 Races
12th in Points Standings
3 Podiums
x2 - 2nd
x1 - 3rd
Average Finish: 7.3
Worst Finish: 14th
2004: Ricky Carmichael (Injured)
Completed 0 of 16 Races
2015: Ryan Villopoto (Retired)
2018: Ryan Dungey (Retired)
2019: Jason Anderson
Completed 3 of 17 Races
23rd in Points Standings
1 Podium
x1 - 2nd
Average Finish: 8.3
Worst Finish: 14th
2022: Cooper Webb
Completed 16 of 17 Races
7th in Points Standings
4 Podiums
x3 - 2nd
x1 - 3rd
Average Finish: 6.1
Worst Finish: 20th
Cooper is obviously better. But I don’t think that he got tired many races last year, like, I think the fitness was fine … so what’s the magic , the competition? More access to testing and someone there to help ?
The real question is.....where will Coop end up in 24. I think he's done at KTM.
Tomac retires, I can see Webb kicking ass on a Star tuned YZ again....
A Championship, 2nd, or 3rd place series overall and the rider will prob earn $1.5m+ a year and the rider is complaining the best Trainer in the biz is too expensive?
This rider must have hit his head a few too many times. Do the math. $200-300k training fee for high probability to earn 5-10xs your investment.
What Trainers have won most of the championships the past 15 years? Aldon and John Tomac.
Fro raced 10 races in 1998. So, he missed 6 races, not 10...
Factory do NOT pay bonuses if you get 2nd or worse in the series (unless you're a second tier/replacement guy). I finished 2nd in SX twice and twice, I received $0 from Yamaha...
From the grapevine, Aldon's 450 rider fee is at least $200k. If you win 2 races, you make $200k (gross). You would write off Aldon's 200k from your taxes but that means you wouldn't pay taxes on 200k. You'd still be out $100k. You'll have to make at least $400k gross to get your money back on a $200k investment. $400k is 4 wins, 8 2nd place finishes or 16 3rd places in today's factory riders race bonuses.
In terms of ROI, paying a coach $200k+ a year only makes sense for the guy who wins the championship or the ones who are on the podium most of the time, Nationals included...
In 2002, my coach cost me $200k+. He was included in my gear deal. I only made $125k from gear (pants/jersey/gloves) that year but the coach was included. To put it in perspective, I made $350k for gear (pants/jersey/gloves) in 2003. But in 2002, I won SX 3 races and podiumed 9 other SXs so financially, it worked.
Think about the guys who are in that program and never podium or very rarely. AP, Craig & Malcolm only had 1 podium combined in 15 tries so far this year. Last year, AP got 2nd once. That pays $50k from his team. Malcolm got 3 2nd place finishes. That pays $150k. Again, the ROI on the investment isn't there.
Plus, you have a lot of other expenses because you have to get a second place to live in. That's not negligible. It's a write off but again, write off doesn't mean free. What you write off still cost your wallet 50% of it
All of that to say, sometimes the numbers don't make sense and at the end of the day, racing SX is a business for the riders so you can understand some don't want to pay for it... Just my rational 2 cents...
Pit Row
Did Marv look like ass on the bike in Saint Louis last year?
Jacky Vimond cost you 200 k ? Geez, great coach but i didn't know it was that expensive, thank you for the headlights.
DV, i know you might not answer this, but what about you ? How much are you asking to a rider for the all program approximately ?
He's probably complaining he is a private contractor, but KTM wants to tell him how to spend his money.
Clarifying….if you are a Top 10 rider, and have the ability via top trainer to be a top 5 finisher, the high trainer fee may be worth it.
But I do agree w DV’s math and yes $200k is pricey.
I believe your mathematics are flawed. If you are a pro SX racer making 1.5 million a year hypothetically, you have an agent taking at least 10% right off the top first I would believe. You are responsible for any health, disability, or career ending insurance which I would be certain is pricey as well. A lot of these riders need a residence or access to a residence on both coasts as well. Add in self funded retirement accounts, IRS payments, lawyer fees for legal representation, having to pay for anything that needs done (mowing your lawn, washing your car, etc.) for you because you don't have time with travel, training, media, these riders are not exactly rolling in it for all their dedication. They are a business, and their salary is the gross - not the net, and that business has huge side expenses like any other. They don't just have a lunch box in it like most jobs.
If Roger really made those statements to a French magazine about Cooper, DeCoster needs to be fired. A manager should never publicly throw an employee under the bus, the blame for underachievement begins and ends with the team leader. Even if any of his statements were true, nobody needed to hear them, it put the whole organization of team KTM in a shit show light. What could any of his public rantings achieve? From former 500GP team mates to former team managers, and mechanics/riders, to des Nations riders who have worked for him evidently this is not new behavior. Evidently, he gave major shit and attitude to Dungey and Carioli last summer as well for underperforming.
So Mav, you’re saying RD is not being honest? If so that’s a very detailed lie he’s telling. Is he just defending the brand?
I think there is probably some pride involved for both Coop and DeCoster. Also I am sure there is some info we will never knoiw.
Cooper mentions they did a lot of work ot the bike, but never mentions what changed. Could have tested themselves into a hole in 2022 and got lost. In the offseason they did a bunch of work and could have ended up very close to where they were in 2022. Meaning they both could be telling the truth.
Two sides to every story with the truth somewhere in the middle.
Cooper seems to be on the every other year plan.
The bike was bad, but Cooper didn't look like he was in shape either. I know that's been a sticking point for KTM, I remember when they signed him DeCoster said they didn't think he was fit enough. He had zero 450 wins before Aldon, with Aldon he won two titles. Left Aldon and had one of the worst title defenses ever, was 3 places behind Marv in the standings who took a race win as well on the same bike. I'm sure the bike wasn't great, but Marv was on the same bike and did better than Webb did. To me, that suggests it's the rider who's underperforming
Roger always speaks his mind and never sugarcoats anything….and he’s usually right…
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