Is it time to remove the displacement rules?

kott0n
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Vancouver, WA, USA

Since 4 strokes have reached the power of the open bikes everyone said was too fast, why not remove the displacement rules and let the chips fall where they may?

Poll

Remove displacement rules?

Choices
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enketchum
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Pasadena, CA, USA
2/11/2023 9:19pm

I was just thinking about this. Would a bike with more power be faster around a supey track? 

7
JustMX
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2/12/2023 4:41am Edited Date/Time 2/12/2023 4:46am

your question is very vague.

What problem are you wanting to solve?

if anything they should lower displacement because the 450s have outgrown the indoor tracks.

I sure hope the powers that be get ahead of the game in the transition from ice to ev much better than they did with 2st to 4st.

80 hp evs with unlimited torque are NOT a good thing for our sport.

 

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2
2/12/2023 4:56am Edited Date/Time 2/12/2023 4:57am
enketchum wrote:

I was just thinking about this. Would a bike with more power be faster around a supey track? 

Downvoted for the use of the Canadian term for supercross.

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1
CPR
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2/12/2023 5:05am

The time to fix the displacement rules was 20 years ago, still waiting……

22

The Shop

Alan Dove
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GB
2/12/2023 6:00am
JustMX wrote:
your question is very vague. What problem are you wanting to solve? if anything they should lower displacement because the 450s have outgrown the indoor tracks...

your question is very vague.

What problem are you wanting to solve?

if anything they should lower displacement because the 450s have outgrown the indoor tracks.

I sure hope the powers that be get ahead of the game in the transition from ice to ev much better than they did with 2st to 4st.

80 hp evs with unlimited torque are NOT a good thing for our sport.

 

empty stadiums will be more a concern than managing performance of the EV bikes. 

3
1
Crush
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2/12/2023 6:21am Edited Date/Time 2/12/2023 8:00pm

Should make the 250 four stroke class the main pro class, a 125 E/W class and a 125 amateur event. 250 class always has better racing anyways and the bikes are as fast as 250 two strokes were. All your junior amateur racing goes two stroke which is better for participation rates. 

11
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-MAVERICK-
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2/12/2023 7:09am Edited Date/Time 2/12/2023 7:30am

I agree with JustMX. The question is vague. What are you wanting to fix?

You're allowed to race a 250 and 350 in the 450 class. Is a bigger displacement needed? I personally don't think so.

What should change is allowing the 250 2T to compete in the 250 class. 

For example. 

Jared Lesher fastest qualifying time on his YZ250 was a 53.594 which put him 27th fastest in the 450 class. 

I understand that the track was rougher and all that, but for argument sake, that same time would have put him 22nd fastest in the 250 class. 

He would stand a better chance at making a main event if he was allowed to compete in the class the bike actually belongs. 

Back in the day a 250 2T wouldn't have been fair, but 4 strokes have made significant technological advancements in the last 20 years to the point where they're practically equal.

They're allowed to compete in the 250 class at the amateur level and other professional series in other countries. 

What's stopping it from being allowed to compete at the pro level in AMA Supercross/Motocross? 

If you say Honda, then Honda and the rest of them just need to accept it or start producing them again. The factories that produce them won't put their riders on them and privateers aren't suddenly going to start waxing the factory guys to the point of embarrassment. 

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1
HD1200
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2/12/2023 7:14am Edited Date/Time 2/12/2023 7:15am
• Regional East vs West Futures: - 250cc displacement max 2t/4t • 250cc Pro class: - 250cc displacement max 2t/4t • Premier Pro class: - open displacement 2t/4t 2 Futures (East/West) and 2 full 17 round pro classes every weekend would add more racing and less TV downtime.
1
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sandman768
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2/12/2023 7:29am
-MAVERICK- wrote:
I agree with JustMX. The question is vague. What are you wanting to fix? You're allowed to race a 250 and 350 in the 450 class...

I agree with JustMX. The question is vague. What are you wanting to fix?

You're allowed to race a 250 and 350 in the 450 class. Is a bigger displacement needed? I personally don't think so.

What should change is allowing the 250 2T to compete in the 250 class. 

For example. 

Jared Lesher fastest qualifying time on his YZ250 was a 53.594 which put him 27th fastest in the 450 class. 

I understand that the track was rougher and all that, but for argument sake, that same time would have put him 22nd fastest in the 250 class. 

He would stand a better chance at making a main event if he was allowed to compete in the class the bike actually belongs. 

Back in the day a 250 2T wouldn't have been fair, but 4 strokes have made significant technological advancements in the last 20 years to the point where they're practically equal.

They're allowed to compete in the 250 class at the amateur level and other professional series in other countries. 

What's stopping it from being allowed to compete at the pro level in AMA Supercross/Motocross? 

If you say Honda, then Honda and the rest of them just need to accept it or start producing them again. The factories that produce them won't put their riders on them and privateers aren't suddenly going to start waxing the factory guys to the point of embarrassment. 

Agree 100%… it will never happen but 350 probably should be max. Displacement for premier class

3
1
holeshot413
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Prosperity, SC, USA
2/12/2023 8:15am
JustMX wrote:
your question is very vague. What problem are you wanting to solve? if anything they should lower displacement because the 450s have outgrown the indoor tracks...

your question is very vague.

What problem are you wanting to solve?

if anything they should lower displacement because the 450s have outgrown the indoor tracks.

I sure hope the powers that be get ahead of the game in the transition from ice to ev much better than they did with 2st to 4st.

80 hp evs with unlimited torque are NOT a good thing for our sport.

 

250 vs 250 any stroke

open/450 

12
kott0n
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Location
Vancouver, WA, USA
2/12/2023 10:20am
JustMX wrote:
your question is very vague. What problem are you wanting to solve? if anything they should lower displacement because the 450s have outgrown the indoor tracks...

your question is very vague.

What problem are you wanting to solve?

if anything they should lower displacement because the 450s have outgrown the indoor tracks.

I sure hope the powers that be get ahead of the game in the transition from ice to ev much better than they did with 2st to 4st.

80 hp evs with unlimited torque are NOT a good thing for our sport.

 

250 vs 250 any stroke

open/450 

He gets it. It should be straight up CC for CC racing or just an open class.

4
TeamGreen
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Thru-out, CA, USA
2/12/2023 10:33am
JustMX wrote:
your question is very vague. What problem are you wanting to solve? if anything they should lower displacement because the 450s have outgrown the indoor tracks...

your question is very vague.

What problem are you wanting to solve?

if anything they should lower displacement because the 450s have outgrown the indoor tracks.

I sure hope the powers that be get ahead of the game in the transition from ice to ev much better than they did with 2st to 4st.

80 hp evs with unlimited torque are NOT a good thing for our sport.

 

250 vs 250 any stroke

open/450 

Yup! I’d like to see Lesher with the torque of a good 300

4
sumdood
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San Clemente, CA, USA
Fantasy
2/12/2023 11:07am

250 vs 250 any stroke

open/450 

^^ This.  250's and run what ya brung

5
Chuck_Nice
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Indianapolis, IN, USA
2/12/2023 11:45am

Run what you brought, has made the AMA Arenacross more exciting!

2
2/12/2023 12:00pm
Chuck_Nice wrote:

Run what you brought, has made the AMA Arenacross more exciting!

Hi, I'm not familiar, what are the rules, two stroke displacement?

2/12/2023 3:03pm

Let 2 strokes run oxygenated fuel and all the stuff that makes them awesome. It’ll be fun   

2
OW38B
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Coto de Caza, CA, USA
2/12/2023 7:43pm
CPR wrote:

The time to fix the displacement rules was 20 years ago, still waiting……

This ^

2
Muttly
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Mills, NM, USA
2/12/2023 7:46pm

Or maybe just remove the “Production Rule”. Works bikes FTMFW!

1
Chuck_Nice
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Location
Indianapolis, IN, USA
2/13/2023 10:05am
Chuck_Nice wrote:

Run what you brought, has made the AMA Arenacross more exciting!

Hi, I'm not familiar, what are the rules, two stroke displacement?

Race announcers claim it is an open formula. 125, 250 and 500 2 strokes are allowed. 

2/13/2023 10:09am

Time to reformat if anything not removing cc regulation though.

250cc stock class bolt on engine parts and a kit suspension 

250cc pro class all factory race teams and satellite teams

450cc stock class bolt on engine parts and a kit suspension

450cc pro class all factory race teams and satellite teams

150cc 2stroke ktm 150 and bored over 125cc for amateur during the race day live show/after qualifying

futures 250 class for a class riders after 150cc race before night show

2
Jesse318pnw
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Location
Snoqualmie, WA, USA
2/13/2023 10:10am
kott0n wrote:
Since 4 strokes have reached the power of the open bikes everyone said was too fast, why not remove the displacement rules and let the chips...

Since 4 strokes have reached the power of the open bikes everyone said was too fast, why not remove the displacement rules and let the chips fall where they may?

The OP puts up a poll that is thinking outside the box and gets a 75% yes vote but gets 7 downvotes.  I don't get it.  

I think the OP asked a good question.  

1
4
Falcon
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Menifee, CA, USA
2/13/2023 10:47am

Now that 2-strokes are just about dead, why not? It's not like any of the factories are going to field one. 

The real question is going to be when they homologate the electric bikes. Are they going to do it by power output? If so, will 2-strokes be legal again? 

2/13/2023 12:07pm

250 vs 250 any stroke

open/450 

sumdood wrote:

^^ This.  250's and run what ya brung

Plus spikes and instead of semis ride until all but the required number is left for the main event. 
 

Run a lcq with the same concept. 

1
2/14/2023 9:45am
JustMX wrote:
your question is very vague. What problem are you wanting to solve? if anything they should lower displacement because the 450s have outgrown the indoor tracks...

your question is very vague.

What problem are you wanting to solve?

if anything they should lower displacement because the 450s have outgrown the indoor tracks.

I sure hope the powers that be get ahead of the game in the transition from ice to ev much better than they did with 2st to 4st.

80 hp evs with unlimited torque are NOT a good thing for our sport.

 

250 vs 250 any stroke

open/450 

TeamGreen wrote:

Yup! I’d like to see Lesher with the torque of a good 300

We go to these and I like to just ask what randoms are using and ratios and stuff since we blended lots of OEM oils and tested almost everything out there.

This was the best racing ever. Every run.

And BTW, those KTMs were running way more oil than this 60:1 keep the enviros happy nonsense.  As you can see here.

 

 

 

1
3
2/14/2023 1:18pm

250 vs 250 any stroke

open/450 

sumdood wrote:

^^ This.  250's and run what ya brung

Plus spikes and instead of semis ride until all but the required number is left for the main event.    Run a lcq with the same...

Plus spikes and instead of semis ride until all but the required number is left for the main event. 
 

Run a lcq with the same concept. 

I forgot to add, play heavy metal throughout the entire process. 

OleTex
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Central, TX, USA
2/14/2023 2:00pm

250 two cycle vs. 250 four cycle. Open class should be open. Run what ya brung. 

5
Mit12
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Lake Havasu City, AZ, USA
2/15/2023 12:06am

To me they have two options.

1. Limit the amount of horse power the bikes are aloud to produce. This would slow down lap times and reduce the cost of maintenance for teams and privateers.

2. Reduce the 450 class 300cc 4 strokes and reduce the 250 class to 150cc 4 strokes. I would think that this would bring the horse power down and make the power band narrower more equal to where they were before the 4 strokes came into play. The down side spinning a 4 stroke at a continued high rpm will lead to way higher maintenance costs for the teams and the privateers.   
 

Alan Dove
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Location
GB
2/15/2023 12:43am
Falcon wrote:
Now that 2-strokes are just about dead, why not? It's not like any of the factories are going to field one.  The real question is going...

Now that 2-strokes are just about dead, why not? It's not like any of the factories are going to field one. 

The real question is going to be when they homologate the electric bikes. Are they going to do it by power output? If so, will 2-strokes be legal again? 

If you homologate by power output you may as well have one-supplier of engine and battery and do away with multi-manufacturer racing... (which is a bad idea btw)

AH387
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Bridgeville, PA, USA
2/15/2023 4:23am

I think it is reasonable to allow 250 2strokes with the 250Fs, at this point. It would help the privateers. I know it may ruffle some feathers of the OEMs but if anything maybe put some sort of restrictions in place on the 2strokes. But someone like Lesher or Stank should be able to run their 250s in the class with 250Fs. Star and HRC are still gonna holeshot every race. It really wouldn't shake up the class much, as most would still probably choose a 250F if they have the budget to build/maintain one. But it could go a long way for some privateers.

As far as the 450 class, I think most privateers would probably just choose a 450 anyways. I don't see a reason to run anything else, but they could bump if up to 300 2stroke and I don't see a problem there. But I think the 250 class is where it would make a difference and help the sport. Just my thoughts.

2/15/2023 1:28pm
Mit12 wrote:
To me they have two options. 1. Limit the amount of horse power the bikes are aloud to produce. This would slow down lap times and...

To me they have two options.

1. Limit the amount of horse power the bikes are aloud to produce. This would slow down lap times and reduce the cost of maintenance for teams and privateers.

2. Reduce the 450 class 300cc 4 strokes and reduce the 250 class to 150cc 4 strokes. I would think that this would bring the horse power down and make the power band narrower more equal to where they were before the 4 strokes came into play. The down side spinning a 4 stroke at a continued high rpm will lead to way higher maintenance costs for the teams and the privateers.   
 

They already rebuild them twice as often as F1 cars which have to last 2 races.

1

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