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I have heard you can,
i have heard you cant,
What is the truth?
Can you race Fuel injected 250 2 stroke in AMA 250A class?
And why would FI be any different than a carb model?
I think because of the leaps and bounds it made.
Lol it hasn’t changed a thing but ok.
It is 250cc isn’t it?
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Amateurs yes. Pro class no.
The ‘22 and earlier KTM 300 made 50hp with a pipe, head work, etc. The ‘23 300 is making 56hp on the same dyno with just a fuel tuner. If the 250 is anything like the 300, I’d say that’s a pretty big change.
What is Steinke riding?
A 250
Every 250cc 2 stroke that has been processed through AMA Pro racing/Feld can be raced in the 450 class like Stankdog did at A1
That was the point of my question, how is this even a question?
250 2 stroke Pro and Amateur classes have the same but different rules like they always have.
Amateur 250cc 2 stroke is legal in both the 250 and 450 class
Pro SX and Nationals 250cc 2 stroke (depending on year) are only legal in 450.
IMO the 300 should also be legal in Pro 450
And it’s been that way for decades. How would fuel delivery change the legality of the machine? Injection in the 450s didn’t change anything.
Weird that the 300 only made 50hp when the 250’s make almost 51 with just a pipe. Actually I think they make closer to 52 on the 20-22’s. 17-19 they made 49 with a PC pipe and silencer and with u4.4 they picked it up to 50.5hp.
There is CC equivalency rules at all level of AMA competition except SX and Outdoor Nationals. A 250 2T can run in the 250 class with 250Fs in amateur events
i just got confused with the rule change in pro class racing, with amatuer class racing. thats all.
But suprised it hasnt been mentioned yet, but i have read that only 250 fourstrokes can race sx futures.
Weird, the KTM 250 made 52hp about 20 years ago. Different dyno’s I guess.
My 21 300sx is faster than my 23 300sx. Don’t be fooled by some random dyno.
Over 55 actually, but it wasn’t as usable as the modern counterbalanced engines. I think it was around 2005ish.
Pit Row
I had an 04 250SX and it was a handful but a ton of fun. the magazines dyno'd it at 49 or 50 hp. the 03 dyno'd slightly higher but they both hit hard and weren't smooth to ride. my 12 model is pretty peppy but seems more controllable. I don't remember any of the 250 SX year models being dyno'd anywhere near 55hp.
http://www.mbike.com/ktm/250sx/2005
that says 55 so that’s what I went off since the rest of the specs. were right. I googled some more and found an MXA article about the 2005 bike and with the McGrath pipe they said they got 51 out of it which was 3 more hp then stock. The 2023 250 is being advertised as having 53hp.
The 250s and 300s have always made nearly identical hp numbers (at least the latest gen carb bikes did). The 300 just has more area under the curve.
Which is what I was getting at. If the 250 and 300 still make basically the same hp, we’re looking at a 3-6 hp improvement with the new TBI bikes and that’s kind of a big deal.
Edit: I don’t know all this for sure… just relaying the info that the ‘23 300 is up 6hp with a fuel tuner over the earlier model on the same dyno. Maybe the 250 didn’t get the same rocket ship treatment.
If they want to keep the sport alive from the grassroots, they should let a 250 2 stroke race against a 250 4stroke, amatuer or pro. Not every person has the money to replace a top end on a 250f constantly, however often that maybe. Or just keep having local races on a 40 man gate, with only 8 to 10 spots filled. I bet the local promoter is pumped for the turnout. How many privateers would that benefit? In the end it doesn't matter, the electric bikes are coming and the sport in stadiums will be done soon enough.
You literally can race a 250 two stroke against 250 four strokes in amateur competition, which is what this thread is about.
The other part of your post is also untrue. It's a myth at this point that 4 strokes are more expensive to maintain than 2 strokes. 2T bikes eat top ends for lunch in a race engine.
I agree but will never happen in pro racing. Suzuki, Kawi and Honda don't produce 2stks and if AMA or Feld or MXsports or whomever attempted to change the rules the teams would threaten to leave the sport. I heard years ago that Honda threatened Davi they would leave if he changed it to 250 vs 250. They don't want their $9k 250f time bomb to get smoked by a 2stk on live TV when they don't even produce 2stks. Bad for business.
Pro SX/Nationals rules have never allowed a 250 smoker in the 250 class. 250 smokers can only race in the 450 SX/Nationals.
It is what it is.
I never said they could or did, I read years ago or saw an interview Davi did and I thought he said that he proposed letting 250's race 250's outdoors and Honda threatened to pull out of the series if he changed the rule.
He never said Honda threatened to pull out, he referenced Honda pulling out of US road racing as an example of what can happen if rules changes are forced upon manufacturers instead of working in partnership. Nobody cares about 250 two strokes in pro racing, not even the Austrians. I personally wish they would allow it just to stop the endless bitching of a few on Vital. lol
I call BS on that. With both bikes getting the same amount time on it? I've had race engines on a 250 2 stroke that was ridden or raced 4 times a week. I, I mean my Dad, would have to do a piston swap 2 maybe 3 times a year. It's not that expensive to change a 250 2stroke piston and rings. Sorry not buying it.
Not to mention no valve train to replace
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